tungsten or sj33

[bozo]

for all of you that know a lot about the tungsten and the sj33, is it worth the difference to buy the tungsten?
bozo

[rob_squared]

Yes. It is also worth buying a television over a radio.

[mjd1969]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with this problem. I'm ready for color and was all set to pick up the SJ33 when it came out. Then I saw that I could get the Tungsten for $30 more (less actually if I bought a cradle for the clie). Now I'm torn.

The clie has the flip top I like plus all the multimedia features. The downside is that it's a little on the thick side and is OS 4.1.

The Tungsten is OS5, smaller (barely), and has most of the multimedia features. Although I don't use bluetooth now, I would have that option in the future. Downside is no flip top- I would have to buy a case.

I've read a lot on the boards about the SJ33 and SJ30 before it. Anybody want to give an opinion on their Tungsten experience?

Thanks.

[T1000X]

Actually, the SJ33 is better than the Tungsten T. The T|T is a good PDA, but the screen blows compared to the Sony models. It looks washed it and is hard to see. The screens for the Sony models are worth it, plus they include an Audio Player program. The only feature that the T|T has over the SJ33 is the voice recorder.

[Macabre Man]

I own a Tungsten and it rocks! I gave up my NR70v for it. I am still in awe of the T|T. The screen is GREAT, not washed out. The speed and power just amazes me.

[T1000X]

Originally posted by tbellas
I own a Tungsten and it rocks! I gave up my NR70v for it. I am still in awe of the T|T. The screen is GREAT, not washed out. The speed and power just amazes me.

Compared to that of a NX70V or NZ90, yes the T|T's screen looks washed out. Frontlit screens tend to loose some color definition due to the way the light hits. Take a comparison in colors on your T|T playing Bejewelled and a Sony model playing the same game. Tell me if your screen colors do not look off. I tried the T|T and loved it's size, and I'm waiting for a small OS5 Sony model (like the TG50) before I upgrade my SJ30.

[Aces]

The one thing that hasn't been brought up in this thread so far is battery life. I notice that if you search the web enough you'll find the Tungsten T listed as only 7 Days battery life. My wife has a Clie T615 (which has 12 days battery life), and is constantly having to charge hers (more than once a day). She uses the backlight in low, which is a big part of the reason. I have used hers with no backlight, but it's harder to see than my Visor Pro. For me, the whole reason to switch to a color PDA is to make game playing and spreadsheet use better. So I figure If I switch to color, I need enough battery to be able to use the backlight most of the time. I hadn't even considered switching to a color unit until I heard about the SJ33's 17 Day battery life.

FYI, My Visor Pro is listed to get 14 Days battery life; and I get about 7-10 days with never using the backlight.

I will post on my own Battery life experiences once I get my SJ-33.

-Aces

[Jake K]

In my opinion, the slide cover that hides the graffiti section on the Tungsten when not in use seems like a pain to have to open, not to mention just one more thing to wear out and break.

[quintuss]

Currently i use a T675C (the european version of the T665C).
Next week I'll go and buy a Tungsten, because i want OS5, more speed, and bluetooth.

The SJ33 is a clumsy version of the T675C and still is an OS4 device.
Yes, the screen is not as clear as the Sony ones but it could be even worse and i'd still buy one.
I was waiting for a successor of the T675C, but with the TG50 Sony just dind't deliver.
As far as i'm concerned, Sony can keep their thumbboard for themselves, i'll go back to Palm.
(Not entirely, my girlfriend keeps the T675C ;) )

The TT ist slightly better than the TG50, and by far better than the SJ33. (OS5, Arm CPU, bluetooth, voice recorder, small formfactor, NO THUMBCRAP)

Hopefully Sony's design departement will make my next device after the TT a Clie again.....

[Macabre Man]

Originally posted by Jake K
In my opinion, the slide cover that hides the graffiti section on the Tungsten when not in use seems like a pain to have to open, not to mention just one more thing to wear out and break.


Its actually a selling point to me. Its a great idea and it has 4 little screws to tightnen it incase it ever gets loose.

[Jeffry]

I'm just wondering which battery life would last longer at maximum brightness... the tungsten, or the SJ33? The tungsten looks appealing (especially the stylus). However, it has no MP3 player as good as Sony's :( I already invest on memory sticks.... so I guess I'm stuck with Sony for a while. Damn u Sony!

[Shogmaster]

Originally posted by quintuss
The TT ist slightly better than the TG50, and by far better than the SJ33. (OS5, Arm CPU, bluetooth, voice recorder, small formfactor, NO THUMBCRAP)


WOW! You already have the TG50?!? :rolleyes:

[Convert]

Originally posted by Jeffry
I'm just wondering which battery life would last longer at maximum brightness... the tungsten, or the SJ33? The tungsten looks appealing (especially the stylus). However, it has no MP3 player as good as Sony's :( I already invest on memory sticks.... so I guess I'm stuck with Sony for a while. Damn u Sony!

What are the MP3 software choices for the T/T/? And how is the MP3 player for Sony superior?:confused:

[Cikub]

I just upgraded from a T665 to a Tungsten. The T665 is pretty much the same as the SJ33, but with a taller, flatter body. I also tried an SJ20 before getting the T665, so I have a good feel for the SJ33 form factor.

Here's why I would take the Tungsten T if I were in your shoes.

- I like the size/shape of the Tungsten. The SJ series are too brick-like, thick and stubby. The Tungsten doesn't win any prizes in thickness, but at least it is more rounded corners, etc. and more easily slips into various pockets. When the slider is open, I find it easier to hold and work with than the permanently smaller SJ series. I really liked the T665 form-factor, thin and long. It fit best in my pockets, though it would have been cool if it could shorten itself when not being used.

- I like the speed of the Tungsten. I have very large lists and use things like DocsToGo that really benefit from the additional snappiness.

- I like the screen of the Tungsten. Yes, the SJ series have a slightly sharper, brighter appearance, but only when you are inside. I use my PDA when I'm out in the car, walking, hiking, whatever. I found the Sony screen difficult to read outdoors. And if I found myself in an emergency low battery situation and had to turn off the backlight, I could hardly read the Sony screen indoors either. The Tungsten screen is better outside (and inside with no backlight) because it is reflective. Nonetheless, in normal indoor lighting, with the backlight on, the Tungsten screen is still absolutely excellent. I don't miss the Sony's extra crispness at all. In fact, I like that my Tungsten does not have the famous blue-cast that Sony screens do.

- I like that my Tungsten is supported by Palm. Sony is well know for its lack of sensitivity to customer needs. I personally had a bad experience with an N-series PDA. When I bought the T665, I made sure to get the instore warranty. With the Tungsten, I did not bother since my past experiences with Palm support/repairs has been quite satisfactory.

- I like that the Tungsten has much greater support for third party suppliers. For example, I went to four or five stores in my local area, looking for a folding keyboard for the T665--no luck. Now that I have a Tungsten, I was able to easily find the fantastic new ultra-thin keyboard for it. Every where you go, you will find cases, styli, peripherals, expansion cards, etc. for Palm devices. As an added bonus, when a peripheral is available for Sony and Palm devices, the Palm device is often less expensive because the market is bigger.

- I like that the Tungsten uses SD cards instead of memory sticks. I don't have anything against memory sticks per se, but SD cards are often cheaper, hold more memory, and offer more non-memory expansion options.

- I like that my Tungsten is not stuck with Sony's old MP3 player. When I bought the T665, I had grand plans for listening to a bunch of MP3 that I already have, as well as listen to audio books. It turns out that the Sony MP3 player is very finicky about what types of MP3s it will play (it would not play mine). Also, if you want to easily transfer CD music directly from CD to the Clies with Sony's own software, you have to use expensive MagicGate memory sticks. With the Tungsten, there are already a couple of other MP3 players, plus Real will soon release a media player for the Tungsten. Another thing I love about the Tungsten is that it is supported by Audible's audiobook reader. If I kept the T665, I would have had to take a multistep approach to get my audiobooks on it (burn CD, then rip it) and even then the MP3 player is not great for books since it doesn't support things like bookmarks. Another plus for the Tungsten when it comes to music and other media is that you can buy bigger memory cards.

- I like that the Tungsten has OS5. Even though it is in its early life, I kind of feel like I have bought into the future. I expect my Tungsten to be more useful than an OS4 device would be within the next year as more 0S5 software rolls out. It is inevitable that companies will begin developing OS5-only software. Already, I am able to do at least one thing that I couldn't do with OS4--listen to Audible audio books. Also, I'm fairly confident that I will be able to upgrade my operating system in the future. Palm has already announced a 5.2 OS version with bug fixes and Grafitti 2. The SJ33 will probably not get upgraded in the future because OS4 has reached the end of its life, Sony probably wouldn't bother making the effort to upgrade it, and the SJ series (at least in the USA) don't normally have flashable ROMs.

- I like the new button configuration on the Tungsten. The five-way bottom is a convenient way to navigate.

- I like that my Tungsten has Bluetooth capabilities. Frankly, I would not have bought it just for this, but it's nice to know that is there for the next time I upgrade my cell phone.

- One big plus for the SJ33, is the advertised battery life. The T665 had really bad battery performance. With it, I could often not even make it through a day before needing a recharge. The Tungsten is considerably better, but I would not plan more than two or three day without a charger handy. My old Palm Vx, on the otherhand could go a whole week on a charge. The SJ33 is supposed to have one of the best battery performances of any color PDA. You will see lots of battery tests in the near future comparing the two. I would focus on comparisons that show hours of active use rather than elapsed days, since everybody had different levels of average use, and use even varies day to day with a single individual.

- The SJ33 is also cheaper. At USD$299, it's 25% less than the Tungsten list price, though you could probably find the Tungsten marked down. The SJ33 probably won't be marked down for a while. For me, the price difference is worth it.

- The SJ33 has a built in flip cover. Some people will probably hate it, but I like the idea. The Tungsten has a clip on plastic shield that is a pain in the neck to get on and off and will probably get lost easily. It's especially a pain because when you take the PDA out of your pocket, you have to juggle the sheild while you are also trying to extend the slider.

- The SJ33 does not have a sliding hinge. I don't like that I have an extra step when I need to write something on the Tungsten. After 6 days, I still I get my stylus out and am ready to start writing before I realize that there is no grafitti area. To make it even more inconvenient, the Tungsten's case is rather smooth, so if my hands are dry, it takes more effort to hold onto the top and botton to pull it apart. One the other hand, I love that the Tungsten shrinks when I'm not using grafitti. It's smaller, better looking, and easier to handle than then either of the Clie's that I've used.

- The SJ33 has a temporary benefit of being able to run all (or most) of the PalmOS legacy software, including some very useful hacks. In my case, I find that the Tungsten runs all of the software that I care about except for a few hacks that will probably be ported in some way (or replaced with) OS5 versions.

I'm not trying to bash on Sony. They make some cool stuff, and if you were interested in their OS5 devices, a number of my points above would be moot. But you asked about the SJ33 vs. Tungsten, so I'm sharing my opinion.

Colin

[Convert]

Originally posted by Cikub
I just upgraded from a T665 to a Tungsten. The T665 is pretty much the same as the SJ33, but with a taller, flatter body. I also tried an SJ20 before getting the T665, so I have a good feel for the SJ33 form factor.

Here's why I would take the Tungsten T if I were in your shoes.

- I like the size/shape of the Tungsten. The SJ series are too brick-like, thick and stubby. The Tungsten doesn't win any prizes in thickness, but at least it is more rounded corners, etc. and more easily slips into various pockets. When the slider is open, I find it easier to hold and work with than the permanently smaller SJ series. I really liked the T665 form-factor, thin and long. It fit best in my pockets, though it would have been cool if it could shorten itself when not being used.

- I like the speed of the Tungsten. I have very large lists and use things like DocsToGo that really benefit from the additional snappiness.

- I like the screen of the Tungsten. Yes, the SJ series have a slightly sharper, brighter appearance, but only when you are inside. I use my PDA when I'm out in the car, walking, hiking, whatever. I found the Sony screen difficult to read outdoors. And if I found myself in an emergency low battery situation and had to turn off the backlight, I could hardly read the Sony screen indoors either. The Tungsten screen is better outside (and inside with no backlight) because it is reflective. Nonetheless, in normal indoor lighting, with the backlight on, the Tungsten screen is still absolutely excellent. I don't miss the Sony's extra crispness at all. In fact, I like that my Tungsten does not have the famous blue-cast that Sony screens do.

- I like that my Tungsten is supported by Palm. Sony is well know for its lack of sensitivity to customer needs. I personally had a bad experience with an N-series PDA. When I bought the T665, I made sure to get the instore warranty. With the Tungsten, I did not bother since my past experiences with Palm support/repairs has been quite satisfactory.

- I like that the Tungsten has much greater support for third party suppliers. For example, I went to four or five stores in my local area, looking for a folding keyboard for the T665--no luck. Now that I have a Tungsten, I was able to easily find the fantastic new ultra-thin keyboard for it. Every where you go, you will find cases, styli, peripherals, expansion cards, etc. for Palm devices. As an added bonus, when a peripheral is available for Sony and Palm devices, the Palm device is often less expensive because the market is bigger.

- I like that the Tungsten uses SD cards instead of memory sticks. I don't have anything against memory sticks per se, but SD cards are often cheaper, hold more memory, and offer more non-memory expansion options.

- I like that my Tungsten is not stuck with Sony's old MP3 player. When I bought the T665, I had grand plans for listening to a bunch of MP3 that I already have, as well as listen to audio books. It turns out that the Sony MP3 player is very finicky about what types of MP3s it will play (it would not play mine). Also, if you want to easily transfer CD music directly from CD to the Clies with Sony's own software, you have to use expensive MagicGate memory sticks. With the Tungsten, there are already a couple of other MP3 players, plus Real will soon release a media player for the Tungsten. Another thing I love about the Tungsten is that it is supported by Audible's audiobook reader. If I kept the T665, I would have had to take a multistep approach to get my audiobooks on it (burn CD, then rip it) and even then the MP3 player is not great for books since it doesn't support things like bookmarks. Another plus for the Tungsten when it comes to music and other media is that you can buy bigger memory cards.

- I like that the Tungsten has OS5. Even though it is in its early life, I kind of feel like I have bought into the future. I expect my Tungsten to be more useful than an OS4 device would be within the next year as more 0S5 software rolls out. It is inevitable that companies will begin developing OS5-only software. Already, I am able to do at least one thing that I couldn't do with OS4--listen to Audible audio books. Also, I'm fairly confident that I will be able to upgrade my operating system in the future. Palm has already announced a 5.2 OS version with bug fixes and Grafitti 2. The SJ33 will probably not get upgraded in the future because OS4 has reached the end of its life, Sony probably wouldn't bother making the effort to upgrade it, and the SJ series (at least in the USA) don't normally have flashable ROMs.

- I like the new button configuration on the Tungsten. The five-way bottom is a convenient way to navigate.

- I like that my Tungsten has Bluetooth capabilities. Frankly, I would not have bought it just for this, but it's nice to know that is there for the next time I upgrade my cell phone.

- One big plus for the SJ33, is the advertised battery life. The T665 had really bad battery performance. With it, I could often not even make it through a day before needing a recharge. The Tungsten is considerably better, but I would not plan more than two or three day without a charger handy. My old Palm Vx, on the otherhand could go a whole week on a charge. The SJ33 is supposed to have one of the best battery performances of any color PDA. You will see lots of battery tests in the near future comparing the two. I would focus on comparisons that show hours of active use rather than elapsed days, since everybody had different levels of average use, and use even varies day to day with a single individual.

- The SJ33 is also cheaper. At USD$299, it's 25% less than the Tungsten list price, though you could probably find the Tungsten marked down. The SJ33 probably won't be marked down for a while. For me, the price difference is worth it.

- The SJ33 has a built in flip cover. Some people will probably hate it, but I like the idea. The Tungsten has a clip on plastic shield that is a pain in the neck to get on and off and will probably get lost easily. It's especially a pain because when you take the PDA out of your pocket, you have to juggle the sheild while you are also trying to extend the slider.

- The SJ33 does not have a sliding hinge. I don't like that I have an extra step when I need to write something on the Tungsten. After 6 days, I still I get my stylus out and am ready to start writing before I realize that there is no grafitti area. To make it even more inconvenient, the Tungsten's case is rather smooth, so if my hands are dry, it takes more effort to hold onto the top and botton to pull it apart. One the other hand, I love that the Tungsten shrinks when I'm not using grafitti. It's smaller, better looking, and easier to handle than then either of the Clie's that I've used.

- The SJ33 has a temporary benefit of being able to run all (or most) of the PalmOS legacy software, including some very useful hacks. In my case, I find that the Tungsten runs all of the software that I care about except for a few hacks that will probably be ported in some way (or replaced with) OS5 versions.

I'm not trying to bash on Sony. They make some cool stuff, and if you were interested in their OS5 devices, a number of my points above would be moot. But you asked about the SJ33 vs. Tungsten, so I'm sharing my opinion.

Colin

 

Great review - thanks.

[Convert]

Originally posted by T1000X


Compared to that of a NX70V or NZ90, yes the T|T's screen looks washed out. Frontlit screens tend to loose some color definition due to the way the light hits. Take a comparison in colors on your T|T playing Bejewelled and a Sony model playing the same game. Tell me if your screen colors do not look off. I tried the T|T and loved it's size, and I'm waiting for a small OS5 Sony model (like the TG50) before I upgrade my SJ30.

If your going to base your judgement of the color screen appearance based on a GAME, that's one thing. However, did you compare a picture with real objects such as people and such? I performed this test, and although the Clie screens seem sharper, the colors are not as accurate. Pictures are and color resolution are truer on the Palms, and most photographers would agree. The Clies are known for their bluish cast, but sharpness.

[Convert]

Originally posted by Aces
The one thing that hasn't been brought up in this thread so far is battery life. I notice that if you search the web enough you'll find the Tungsten T listed as only 7 Days battery life. My wife has a Clie T615 (which has 12 days battery life), and is constantly having to charge hers (more than once a day). She uses the backlight in low, which is a big part of the reason. I have used hers with no backlight, but it's harder to see than my Visor Pro. For me, the whole reason to switch to a color PDA is to make game playing and spreadsheet use better. So I figure If I switch to color, I need enough battery to be able to use the backlight most of the time. I hadn't even considered switching to a color unit until I heard about the SJ33's 17 Day battery life.

FYI, My Visor Pro is listed to get 14 Days battery life; and I get about 7-10 days with never using the backlight.

I will post on my own Battery life experiences once I get my SJ-33.

-Aces

I'm going to look at the SJ33 tomorrow. Eventhough it boasts 17 days battery life, at what cost? It's thicker and heavier than the T/T by far. It was compared side by side with a Visor, the photos are in one of the threads about the SJ33, and it is about the same size overall. That's why I moved away from my Visor Prism, for smaller and lighter, and I don't think the SJ33 is going to fit the bill, even though it looks great.

[VicAjax]

Originally posted by Convert


I'm going to look at the SJ33 tomorrow. Eventhough it boasts 17 days battery life, at what cost? It's thicker and heavier than the T/T by far. It was compared side by side with a Visor, the photos are in one of the threads about the SJ33, and it is about the same size overall. That's why I moved away from my Visor Prism, for smaller and lighter, and I don't think the SJ33 is going to fit the bill, even though it looks great.

it's slightly thicker because of the flip cover, which is fine with me.  add a case to the tungsten, and it will be thicker and heavier than the SJ33.  one of the reasons i'm getting it is because it doesn't need a case.  i've compared sony and tungsten screens side-by-side, and i prefer the sony.  the photos looked "truer" on the sony screen.

also, the SJ33 is $100 bucks cheaper than the tungsten, and that's the debut pricepoint.  that's no chicken feed.

[VicAjax]

p.s. how/where are you going to look at the SJ33 tomorrow? i thought it didn't come out till feb 28?

[Convert]

Originally posted by VicAjax
p.s. how/where are you going to look at the SJ33 tomorrow? i thought it didn't come out till feb 28?

Shipment were scheduled for 2/21, and are available online. However, I just called the Sony Gallery and they said that they didn't receive the scheduled shipment for the SJ33 yet, (still getting out the bugs as reported in Asia?). They're going to call me as soon as received.

[Andyvan]

FYI: Circuit City in San Diego had one (SJ33) on display today.

The added thickness is not objectionable.

-- Andyvan

P.S. They also had a T665 on display. I thought those were all gone.