Wireless LAN for Memory Stick

[Unregistered]

Wireless LAN was probably the only thing that the T665 didn't offer that I wanted, but apparently soon this will not be the case. Read this article: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,105569,00.asp

Hopefully we'll get those soon...I'd rather have that than bluetooth because my campus is wireless ready and I don't feel like lugging my laptop around campus just so that I can go online between classes. This is probably a dumb question, but when you go online w/ something so small, is the content limited? Am I only able to view pages specifically created for such small devices or can I look at any webpage normally?
Thanks
SlackerDX

[Palié]

You should post this in the NX section. Anyways, you could use Netfront to surf the Internet (not just wap, but "normal" sites). It will be much slower compared to computer, especially on large and graphic intensive sites because the CPU can't render the pages fast enough. It's also Flash enabled.

[Porletto]

That article had nothing to do with Wireless LAN cards for the T series.

[wellsjs]

Let's see. The article says the NX60 and NX70 are coming out soon. Oh, the article's dated October 2002. :eek: Ah ha! The poster's name says it all . . . "slacker!" :D

[InfoPalm]

Hey don't rush to critize the guy.

If you read it through, on the bottom it mentions that Sony intends to come out with a Wi Fi memory stick. I sure hope thats true. I would really like that, and I'm ok (and excpecting) if it sticks out.

SONY MAKE THAT WI FI STICK! :) PLEASE! :(

[monkeygr@ss]

If Sony had any plans to create a WiFi Memory Stick, they WHY would they have included a CF WLAN slot in the new Clie's????

Answer is obvious folks, THEY AIN'T GONNA! Think of all the people who bought those NX/NZ Clie's for hte purpose of a WLAN - then they come out with a WiFi MS and what happens?

Mass Ugliness. Kinda like the MSPro crapola. I held out as long as I could - hoping, waiting, wishing for a WiFi MS. I might have waited longer, until the MSPro news broke. That was it for me.

[Porletto]

I agree. The main selling point of these new Clies as well as the new Palms are their wireless connectivity. There is now way sony is going to make lesser Clies able to access Wireless LANs.

[InfoPalm]

Your probaly right, but maybe, just maybe, if Sony makes drivers for the CF slot on the NX-series, then they might make a MS-Wi Fi. Because then there would be a point to still get the NX.

But that probaly won't happen. Sony makes good products, but they seem to make sure they make more money (have to upgrade to use new MS format, CF slot that only accepts THEIR module, etc).

[Jayman]

Monkeygr@ss go back to your PPC forum, they appreciate your kind there... hehehe..

[monkeygr@ss]

Jayman,

I suspect I may have owned a few more Clie's than you have...  I'm not really going to go into the fact I've been a contributing member here for months before you ever joined. :eek: AND I still have PalmOS devices to support. 


Last time I checked, *my kind* was appreciated here as well. I'm no PPC zealot buddy, I just got my first one after 3 (going on 4 very soon) Clie's. So take your biased attitude back to wherever YOU and your whopping 57 posts came from.


I honestly like most of the folks around here - regardless of my choice in PDA OS.  There are more important things in life, man, MUCH more important things...


And if you don't dig the sig, well, hey, what can I say - the truth hurts, doesn't it? :D:D:D

[patrickl]

You can already have WiFi on other clies. Just not with the Sony WL100 card. But with the sleeve they sell and any other WLAN card. To quote that as their main reason is just plain silly.

As far as I know the WiFi sets that will fit in the MS formfactor are just out for a few months. Is the WiFi SD out already? Well if you see those coming around there will be WiFi Memory Sticks coming too.

[Porletto]

Where can I get that Wireless sleeve?

[monkeygr@ss]

Originally posted by patrickl
You can already have WiFi on other clies. Just not with the Sony WL100 card. But with the sleeve they sell and any other WLAN card. To quote that as their main reason is just plain silly.

As far as I know the WiFi sets that will fit in the MS formfactor are just out for a few months. Is the WiFi SD out already? Well if you see those coming around there will be WiFi Memory Sticks coming too.

As far as we were all told, they have been right around the corner for months...  Just like the non-existent HiCap standard MS sticks that were *supposedly* being produced.  :rolleyes:  You may consider my reasons silly, but being lied to multiple times is all the reason I needed to make a decision in this case.

No, the SDIO WiFi card has not been released yet.  Unfortunately, unless you have bought a new PDA in the last couple months, chances are, it won't support SDIO anyways.

Ah yes, the wonderful non-english supported WiFi Modem sled.  Sold only in the Far East.  Sorry, I must have missed registration for my japanese classes in school.  I don't see having to learn a second language, or rely on gibberish attempts at translation, to try and get WiFi on my Clie.  Not to mention doubling the size and weight of the "slim-line" form factor that was a large part of why I bought it. That's after putting up more cash than a new PDA would cost in the first place, by the time you pay for Itn'l shipping and all the rest.

No thanks.  Not a viable option, IMHO.

[patrickl]

My point was that it is silly to blame the fact that there is no WiFi memory stick on some "evil genius complot". If you fail to read that into it then i guess it's probably not even much sense to argue with you.

The thing about the SDIO proves my point even more. The SDIO PDA builders have EVERY reason to get WiFi for their platrform. Since not even the SDIO version of WiFi is ready, why should Sony already have them in MS format? Now if the SDIO WiFi version had come out and after a year there still is no MS version then you can start whining.

You can purchase the sleeve from Brando (http://shop.brando.com.hk/pega-cf60.php) Obviously this is not a miracle solution, but it certainly isn't the only option either. If people really want WiFi on ther Clie T they can get it. Hell you can even get WiFi on a Palm Vx.

Personally I just bought an extra NX70 for WiFi, web browsing and other entertainment stuff. Will use the trusty Clie T625C for my standard PDA work (calender, addressbook, time reporting etc)

[monkeygr@ss]

Originally posted by patrickl
My point was that it is silly to blame the fact that there is no WiFi memory stick on some "evil genius complot". If you fail to read that into it then i guess it's probably not even much sense to argue with you.

No, I got your point.  But I never said anything about "some evil genius complot".  Please refrain from using quotes and implying that I actually said something I did not.  But think about the logic behind what you said.  Everything Sony does IS according to some sort of business plan, no matter how misguided or non-consumer oriented it may seem to us.  At some point, there was an obvious call for WiFi - in order for Sony to continue to keep and expand marketshare, they had to offer it.  Instead of going full steam ahead on MS WiFi, they made the decision instead, to convert to CF WiFi (and ensure that it would in no way hurt MS sales by crippling it.).  Why would they have done this if there was a WiFi stick anywhere in sight?  Very simple, and no "evil complots"  (Uhh - whatever a complot is anyway) involved.  The don't have one.  Sony has WiFi technology at their fingertips!  It's in the newer VAIO's, they make the only CF WLAN card you can use with a Clie, they only have problems with the MS format!  If you can't see that, then is really is no point in continuing this debate, indeed!


You can purchase the sleeve from Brando (http://shop.brando.com.hk/pega-cf60.php) Obviously this is not a miracle solution, but it certainly isn't the only option either. If people really want WiFi on ther Clie T they can get it.

You must know something that nobody else knows.  Care to share our other options for getting WiFi on a T series Clie?  Cuz I sure as hell searched high and low for them and other than buying that sled, with no support or guarantee's that it would indeed work (I read several reviews - all of which had issues that prevented the sled from working as it was supposed to). So I would be VERY interested in what "other" options you are vaguely referring to here.

Personally I just bought an extra NX70 for WiFi, web browsing and other entertainment stuff. Will use the trusty Clie T625C for my standard PDA work (calender, addressbook, time reporting etc)

LOL.  Sony loves you!  :D Does it give you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside?  So, now you have two PDA's, total cost of well over $1000 (before any MS's or WLAN cards are purchased, much less cases or any other accessories) to get the functionality that my $500 e740 has.  :rolleyes: 

[patrickl]

I didn't even say YOU stated that there was an evil genius plot, but the first caps lock invested rant you posted quite clearly demonstrates some sad case of paranoia on your side.

WiFi simply just doesn't fit yet in MS (well maybe they are working on it now). Really, if you are that uninformed perhaps you should refrain from posting on these matters. You don't notice a size difference between a CF or vaio WiFi option? Let me explain. These are quite a lot bigger than MS.

And yes there are other CF sleds WITH drivers, you just look em up yourself. Just noone cares enouh to buy those. People who buy a Clie T want small size. Thats something no WiFi enable solution can give right now.

I decided against a pocket pc because of the crappy screens (and heavy weigth, bloated software etc etc etc). So, no an outdated e740 is not an option for me.

[monkeygr@ss]

Caps lock infested rant? :p That's funny. 3 whole words in caps qualifies as a rant? ...ok... :D Guilty as charged! :D

I think you might be the confused one, patrickl... First you say that this mythical MS WiFi is supposedly "in the works" - then you turn around and say "WiFi simply just doesn't fit yet in MS (well maybe they are working on it now)" What was your point again? There are a half dozen other manufacturers putting WiFi in SD cards that are half the size of a MS, and yet Sony can't figure out a way to do it in a MS? Come on. Toshiba included it inside the form factor, with SD and CF slots as well, and the whole unit is marginally (and I do mean marginally, like less than 1/8th of an inch or so) larger than the T665. Still slimline, and nothing even close to the "heavy weight" and "bloated software" of the NZ90. 11 MB indeed. Your statement "...small size. Thats something no WiFi enable solution can give right now" is true only if you add "in a PalmOS device" to the end of it. Cuz there are other options. And I'm not trying to incite a flame war here. I am merely speaking the truth in regards to current functionality in PDA's.

Keep the faith bro, keep the faith. :s Sony does luv ya! ;)

Uninformed, indeed. Yep, I'm a regular dumbass, I mean what do I know about Clie's, I've only owned 4 - going back to the original S300 when nobody even knew that Sony was making PDA's... You're right, maybe I should just "refrain" from speaking the COMMON KNOWLEDGE that there is NO WiFi MS, Sony has made NO statement to indicate they are ever going to make one, and the direction that product development has taken over the last 6 months ALSO indicates that they have no intention of ever bringing a WiFi MS to market. There are also NO official WiFi solutions from Sony on any PDA except the new NX/NZ series, and no incentive for them to retrofit the older models. I mean really, why release software and add-ons for older devices when everyone will just spend $500-800 on a NEW Clie every 6 months? This is Sony's marketing plan, it is working beautifully for them so far, and this is all very obvious to anyone who has followed the evolution of the Clie for any length of time.

Please, when you have found an affordable, reliable means of hooking up a T series Clie to a WiFi network (yes, and I do mean without doubling the size and weight of the device), then come back here and tell everyone who's asked about it for the last year how you did it.

Because we would LOVE to know how!! :D:D:D

[patrickl]

Are you sure there isn't a warning on those Pocket PC's. "Warning: using a PocketPC can cause damage to your brain".

You really are having trouble following this eh? As I said there recently was a chipset released that would allow WiFi in SDIO (and thus MS) format. So it's save to say people are working on it. And it is not yet commercially avaulable since it didn't fit up till now.

You really should try to understand that Sony does not "create WiFi". They BUY chipsets for that. In fact the CF WLAN card they sell is OEM. So they will most likely also have to buy a WiFi chipset and it has to fit in a MS format. And since that is only recently available there will be no SDIO and no MS format WiFi available. If there will be an SDIO solution you can bet there will follow a MS solution.

SDIO WiFi is much more interesting commercially, but since not even that is available, how the hell can you expect Sony to have this already?

Please at least try to read the thread before you make a totall *** of yourself?

[mashoutposse]

Originally posted by monkeygr@ss
If Sony had any plans to create a WiFi Memory Stick, they WHY would they have included a CF WLAN slot in the new Clie's????

Answer is obvious folks

Sony wanted WiFi in October 2002, not May 2003. Yes, the answer is very obvious.

[patrickl]

Good point yes. He actually explained why there is no WiFi MS himself!

On this subject, I guess Sony will not even consider releasing WiFi memory sticks if there isn't a dual MS slot Clie available. Would PalmOS be able to support two memory stick slots?

[monkeygr@ss]

Originally posted by patrickl
Are you sure there isn't a warning on those Pocket PC's. "Warning: using a PocketPC can cause damage to your brain".

You wanna make this personal?  Asking me about brain damage after YOU'VE spent over $1000 on proprietary hardware to do what my $500 PDA does out of the box?!?!  Whatever man.  I'm gonna stop after this post.  If you seriously think I'm the one who is delusional here, well just keep waiting for this mythical WiFi MS that doesn't exist.  AAMOF - hold your breath while your at it. ;)

You really are having trouble following this eh? As I said there recently was a chipset released that would allow WiFi in SDIO (and thus MS) format. So it's save to say people are working on it. And it is not yet commercially avaulable since it didn't fit up till now.

As WHO said something about SDIO WiFi being released?  You better re-read the thread yourself, patrickl, because I'm not the one having a hard time following anything.  You seem to be the one having a hard time thinking in a straight line. :rolleyes: And if you want to talk about technology, lets talk about that.  Leave these stupid petty digs alone before you end up in a totally irrelevant discussion that you don't want to get into...

You can most likely bet that any WiFi MS solution (if one, in fact ever gets released) would only be compatible with newer devices, just like the new MSPro.  Those older devices (pre NX) don't have a fast enough I/O setup to handle the faster transfer speed of newer MSPros, OR WiFi, unless you want a serious bottleneck on your bandwith.  So please tell me how you are gonna get WiFi (11MB/sec, remember?) working as it should thru a I/O interface that only supports 2.4 MB/sec?  :confused: Please? :confused:  I'm sorry, who's uninformed?  It's really very basic, so try and spend less time on the name calling, and more time on the ole homework, man...

And if you really think that Sony is interested in providing backwards compatibility and upgrades for existing devices, then please pass me some of whatever it is you're smoking, ok? :D Cuz it must be some pretty good stuff!! :D

You really should try to understand that Sony does not "create WiFi". They BUY chipsets for that. In fact the CF WLAN card they sell is OEM. So they will most likely also have to buy a WiFi chipset and it has to fit in a MS format. And since that is only recently available there will be no SDIO and no MS format WiFi available. If there will be an SDIO solution you can bet there will follow a MS solution.

And what part of my post led you to think that I don't understand WiFi chipsets?  You really need to stop jumping to conclusions and informing me as to what I do and don't know.  You're the one who ends up looking like a dumbass. Why don't you do a little reading - I'll even give you a link to get you started. ;) http://www.palminfocenter.com/palm/p_story.asp?ID=4836  And yes, notice at the bottom where it says SanDisk will have SD WiFi, and SD Memory + WiFi chips on the market in March.  Yes, that's a week away.  Where is this WiFi MS again?  Can you even show me a mention of one being worked on?  I'd love to see it. :cool:


Please at least try to read the thread before you make a totall *** of yourself?

I'm not even going to reply to this.  Seems like you are the one who needs to be reading the thread, since you fail to make a single response to any point mentioned in my previous post, and instead resort to personal attacks and lame bashes on my choice of PDA OS.  Get a life.  Better yet, get me some real documentation and information (something better than, say, "it's save to say they are working on it", ok? or someone else's link to a 6 month old article) or you can just stop with the "who knows what" game, ok?  This thread IS entitled Wireless LAN for Memory Stick, is it not?  Have you been able to show one shred of evidence or documentation that such a thing exists?  I sure haven't seen you produce anything.  So, where is your attitude coming from?  You have no point, this technology does not exist, and you seem to think I'm the one with brain damage.  OK.  Suuuure.  Keep eating up all the B$ Sony keeps selling you.  Just like the engineer who said that the CF slot had a standard I/O interface and would be compatible with CF memory and other devices if drivers were written...  Which they will not release the API's or SDK to be able do so.  Or maybe like the guy who said the CNet article claiming that MSPro was not going to be backwards compatible was "way off the mark" and "our public statement will clearly show otherwise"??? 

If you can't see the pattern of Sony saying whatever it has to - to get people to buy products now, thinking that they will have future upgrades and abilities they don't currently have, then you sure haven't been paying much attention to their marketing tactics over that last few years.  Really if it makes you sleep better at night, keep thinking that Sony actually cares, and that you really are important to them.  :eek:I won't tell anyone, promise...  ;)

[patrickl]

Hahaha, hilarious. Man you are so far gone. Sorry dude don't have time for this. Reread, the previous posts and "try to comprehend the text". Have fun living in your own small world. Most important ... don't forget to look over your shoulders every time you see a Sony logo.

Nice having you around and please come again when you are able to read.

[monkeygr@ss]

Great comeback, patrickl...

You really have a lot to say on the subject, eh? A veritable database of information.

I'm sorry, you couldn't even manage to come up with a single counter-point or shred of evidence that a WLAN MS exists. So sad.  :(

I'm not the one who is having a problem "comprehending the text" - maybe you ought to brush up on the ole English, buddy. :rolleyes:

And in re-reading the entire thread - it's pretty obvious that you are in the minute minority of delusioned Sony sheep who actually think that there will be some kind of WiFi MS stick that will work in the T series. 

re-read it yourself.  I got out of Sony's "small world".  If you can't see that there are other alternatives, then you are the one who needs to take off the blinders.

[patrickl]

I actually read the whole text. Man I'm so ROFL!!!!! And you even added more to the fun.

I really like the part where you explain that the connector cannot sustain the bandwidth. You do know the difference between bits and bytes right? It helps if you type it properly. It's 11Mb/s and 2.4MB/s (note the small b and big B). So if we use the same letter on both we get 11Mb/s and 19.2Mb/s and it suddenly seems to fit just nicely. You see why I think you are just being silly?

Just give it up. Your argument is completely based on guesswork and lack of knowlegde. Of course Sony would rather have WiFi built into their PDA's and into memory sticks. You think they are happy with the crap they have gotten over their CF sidestep?

Let me put in in simple points for you:
1) Sony was desperate for WiFi. They would have like to go MS, but they knew they were not gonna get that working quickly enough. So they were forced to use the CF cards
2) There is at this moment hardly any money to be made on MS WiFi cards. There is however a lot of money to be made from SDIO WiFi cards. So just like with BT, you can see MS WiFi sticks a couple of months AFTER the SDIO cards start coming out. Just a simple matter of investment over possible market volume.
3) There is no MS or SDIO solution now, but since the chipset for that was announce a few months back you can bet people will be looking into this issue. Actually I have seen reports from Sony representative who actually said so.
4) For now you can use several sled based solutions for the Clie T.

On the PocketPC vs NX70 front, I really don't see your point. I cannot see myself webbrowsing on low resolution screen. Indeed the money is not that much of an issue for me. However a Toshiba e740 WiFi is a lot more expensive than a NX70V over here. For half the screen. Go figure!

[monkeygr@ss]

Originally posted by patrickl
I really like the part where you explain that the connector cannot sustain the bandwidth. You do know the difference between bits and bytes right? It helps if you type it properly. It's 11Mb/s and 2.4MB/s (note the small b and big B). So if we use the same letter on both we get 11Mb/s and 19.2Mb/s and it suddenly seems to fit just nicely. You see why I think you are just being silly?   

Yes, I understand the difference quite clearly.  If I mistyped a B instead of b, then excuse me.  You've had plenty of mis-spells I didn't pick out to rag you on either.  ;)  Might want to take a look into "useable bandwith" as well.  Network adapters can only utilize a small percentage of the actual I/O available to them for data throughput.  Usually about 15%.  The rest is consumed by overhead and extraneous packet traffic.  And that still doesn't change the fact that you have nothing other than your own "assumptions" to go on that this stick is being manufactured.  I would think, that if Sandisk also had a WiFi chip for MS, that it would have been mentioned along with all the other wonderful new WiFi goodies it's working on right now.

There is at this moment hardly any money to be made on MS WiFi cards

That's one pretty heavy statement.  I think there are PLENTY of NR, T, N, and even S series owners who would be all over a WiFi MS, if one were made available.


  On the PocketPC vs NX70 front, I really don't see your point. I cannot see myself webbrowsing on low resolution screen. Indeed the money is not that much of an issue for me. However a Toshiba e740 WiFi is a lot more expensive than a NX70V over here. For half the screen. Go figure!

Dunno what they are charging over there for e740, but here, I got it for under $500, with WiFi built in.  The NX70 was going to cost $600, plus $150 for the CF WLAN Card.  So in my market, I purchased the same functionality (plus twice the processor and enough available ram to actually install the apps I needed) for $250 less than the Sony solution.  Does that make enough sense for you?  I'm not looking to justify my purchase.  I don't have to.  The money left in my bank account, and the fact that I don't have to beg and sign petitions to get full functionality out of my PDA, does that for me.

All I'm looking for is proof that a WiFi stick is being produced, patrickl.  Until you can show me that information, your arguements are redundant and silly, and you really sound ridiculous talking about and defending something that doesn't exist.  I'll ask one more time - where is it?  Where is the information?  Where are the specs?  What is the estimated time to release? :confused: At the rate Sony is going, they'll be better off embedding the WiFi in newer clies.  Don't know why they haven't already.  Lord knows they have enough chassis space in those monstrous NX/NZ series clamshells!

[patrickl]

Why do I need to prove that there is work being done on a MS Wifi (Other than reports from Sony represetnatives that they will do so) You claim to know that there never will be a WiFi MS. You just prove that? I have at least shown that statement to be unlikely.

BTW, B or b is not a typo. At least not when you try to support your case with that "typo".

The NX70V has twice the pixels. I do not care about processor speed etc. I just want to web browse with it.

[monkeygr@ss]

Because you are about the only one who seems to think that there is such a thing. It's a pretty well known fact of debate that you can't prove a negative. So, it is patently impossible for me to prove that Sony will NEVER release a MS WiFi. I personally think it is highly unlikely, as do most of us who have a vested interest in this subject. It is, however, relatively easy to prove a positive (provided what you are trying to prove is true). So, in this instance, the burden of proof is not on me to show that Sony will never make a WiFi MS - but rather on you to prove that one is, in fact, being manufactured. Which you obviously cannot do. Until one actually hits the market (or gets filed for FFC approval - a dead giveaway of a new product that uses wireless technology is about to be released) - there is no debate, because There is no WiFi MS . Do you get it yet?

It's a pipe dream, and that's been the nuts and bolts of this entire thread. You think that you have shown that it's likely a WiFi MS is around the corner. I ask you for any information whatsoever to back up your claim and you attack me for my choice of OS and PDA - which has absolutely nothing to do with anything related to this discussion. I did my research and my homework when I owned a T665 - searching high and low for any indication that a WiFi MS was going to be made. I found no such evidence, and you are trying to say that there is, without anything to back it up!

[mashoutposse]

Where is this WiFi MS again? Can you even show me a mention of one being worked on? I'd love to see it.

'"Hopefully in the near future we will be able to unveil a wireless LAN module for Memory Stick and we plan to do so," says Masanobu Yoshida, president of Sony's Handheld Computer Company.'

Time to move on.

BTW, why compare the e740 to the NX70V? Why not compare it to the $429 camera-less NX60? Add a WiFi card to that, and you get a total of about $580. And you get the following:

-physically bigger screen with twice the pixels
-built-in keyboard for emails and messageboard posting wirelessly
-high-quality, attractive magnesium body
-hardware running PalmOS, which is backed by the largest handheld software development community in the world

Not bad for an $80 premium.

[monkeygr@ss]

Originally posted by mashoutposse


'"Hopefully in the near future we will be able to unveil a wireless LAN module for Memory Stick and we plan to do so," says Masanobu Yoshida, president of Sony's Handheld Computer Company.'

"When asked about the details of the news.com article and on the claim that the "memory stick pro" will not be compatible with older devices, a Sony PR Spokesperson said, "It <I>(the news.com article)</I> is inaccurate and based on rumor."

Sorry, but I've been burned too many times by these blatant lies on behalf of Sony.&nbsp; Like I said, if&nbsp;a WiFi MS was truly in the works, they would have to publicly&nbsp;file for FCC approval, there would be some sort of white paper, anything like that might make me think there was such a project in the works.&nbsp; So far, nothing.


BTW, why compare the e740 to the NX70V? Why not compare it to the $429 camera-less NX60? Add a WiFi card to that, and you get a total of about $580. And you get the following:

Ok, lets.

-physically bigger screen with twice the pixels

No arguments here, Sony has hands down the sweetest PDA screen on the market.&nbsp; I don't consider myself a PPC zealot (it's my first one after 4 Clie's), but even the diehards will admit this.&nbsp; Score one for Sony.&nbsp; But check out the HP 1910.&nbsp; PPC is closing this gap - we just need more resolution.


-built-in keyboard for emails and messageboard posting wirelessly

No need.&nbsp; Adds extra bulk and a clamshell which&nbsp;I can't comfortably put in my pocket or on a belt clip.&nbsp; I prefer the full-screen transcriber to recognize my handwriting - instead of having to alter how I write to accomodate a PDA.&nbsp;&nbsp;Purely a matter of personal preference.


-high-quality, attractive magnesium body&nbsp;

High quality, non-clamshell, lighweight aluminum (I think) body.&nbsp; This falls in favor of the Tosh, for me.&nbsp; I just don't like the clamshell!&nbsp; Again, personal preference.


-hardware running PalmOS, which is backed by the largest handheld software development community in the world


Hardware running PocktPC2002 (which traditionally has support for upgrading the OS - PPC2002 uses 24 MB ROM, I have 48.&nbsp; Plenty of room for upgrades), with more and more software coming every day.&nbsp; I don't miss a single app that I couldn't replace with (in many cases) a more full-featured version.&nbsp; I call this a wash.&nbsp; I'll also be interested to see the future of PalmSource, which according to many informed&nbsp;reports is suffering from a serious lack of focus and will not be releasing OS6 on schedule (esp not after firing the head of development last week).

Let's also not forget to add:


Twice the processor @ 400 mhz.
Dual SD and CF slots.
True Multitasking
Built in skinable themes and "launcher"
Integrated WiFi - leaving both slots open for memory, GPS, whatever...
The ability to add hundreds of aftermarket CF peripherals.
USB Host support for hard drives, HID, etc..
64 MB Ram - before you start talking about "bloated" PPC apps, I'll let you know I have everything on my e740 that was on my T665 (within reason), with over 20 MB of room to spare.&nbsp; I had a full 32 MB MS that was full of apps after I filled up my 16 MB of ram.&nbsp; Of which there&nbsp;is only 11 MB in the NX series.&nbsp; And the newer OS5 PalmOS apps are quite a bit larger than the old ones - they have to be to support HiRes Color.


And the #1 reason for me?&nbsp;

1 GB MSpro (whenever it becomes available) - $880.

1 GB CF II Card?&nbsp; $200-250.


Not bad for $80&nbsp;less than the NX60.

I'm seriously not trying to get into a flame war with anyone.&nbsp; I also am not trying to come in here (a subgroup of diehard PalmOS folks) and convert anyone to anything.&nbsp; Maybe a little tolerance and understanding that there are other PDA's which suit other people's needs better, and that Sony isn't the only&nbsp;company making good PDA's!&nbsp; :D&nbsp; I went back and forth, with both the e740 and the NX60 in my hand, when I was considering which to buy.&nbsp; I'd simply been burned by Sony too many times to go back and get in line for more disappointment at a premium price.&nbsp; I'm not the only one that feels this way, either.&nbsp; Many people here, as well as other PDA boards I frequent, feel the same.&nbsp; Even so, I just bought a refurb S320 for my daughter to track her homework and choir rehearsals with, because I thought it was the best deal out there for the price (and I have a ton of MS's and other unused Sony accessories).&nbsp; I just find it pretty&nbsp;sad, to keep holding out and *trusting* Sony to do what's right by the consumer.&nbsp; Look at their track record.&nbsp; It speaks for itself.&nbsp;

[rob_squared]

If I go to watch a fight I want to see blood.

And just remember, "Fighting on the internet is like being in the special olympics; even if you win you're still retarded."

[InfoPalm]

What is this "sleeve" for Wi Fi on a Clie? I haven't seen it.

Also while Sony seems to be deceving there customers and such, I still think they might make a Wi Fi. They could use this for the Vaio laptops they make. It would probaly work with Clie's but probaly only new ones.

[patrickl]

Its a battery/CF slot that you clip on the back of a Clie T or Clie NR. Works only with CF communcation cards, but more than just the one from Sony. You can see it in the brando shop (http://shop.brando.com.hk/pega-cf60.php)

Too bad those CF61 built-in drivers are not in the NX70 though.


As far as I know the Vaio's don't support the Memory Stick IO cards. At least I know for sure the Blue Tooth memory stick wont work in them (or at least some), since someone I know ran into this problem.

[monkeygr@ss]

You may want to check the review of that sled before getting too excited... http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/pega-cf70-review.html

I'll quote the last line for ya, if you don't feel like following the link.

The bottom line is that this could be a cool accessory if someone out there could translate the driver into English and better yet, write a driver to allow CF memory cards to be used with this sled. Or maybe even to allow the use of the Symbol 802.11b CF card (for the Pocket PC) to work with the CLIÉ. As it stands, it looks like this gadget is destined to take up space in my closet o'stuff for the time being...

So how is this a WiFi solution again? :confused: And if it was able to load the correct drivers, you are still talking about $140 for the sled, plus shipping from HK. Then another $150 for the WLAN card (if it is even useable, which to my knowledge, no-one has been able to do it yet). That's over $300 in accessories for a $350 PDA, that of course, are not useable on anything else if you ever upgrade.

Not trying to flame anyone patrickl. I'm done with our little spat. It was stupid, and nothing was accomplished on either side. OK?

[InfoPalm]

I'm not interested in the sled, becuase I though it was a built in Wi Fi device. I don't need Compact Flash.

Just had a thought though:

On memorystick.com you can access developer information on the Memory Stick. I don't know if Sony will let you (though I don't see why not) but would if a third party developer made a Wi Fi memory stick?

[patrickl]

Well, as I said the sled is not a miracle solution, but that was never the topic of the discussion. I'm not sure why you are so hung op on that issue. Fact is people CAN use Internet "remotely" on their clie. Actually, I used a 20 meter long serial cable to use my clie in the living room over mochasoft ;) (and that works!) But besides using a sled, people can do what the Tungsten-T users do and get the blue tooth stick. Get an extended range adapter for the "acces point" and you can get close to the range of WiFi.

However I still think that the OS4 Clies are not suitable for internet browsing. Without Netfront you are just getting hashed up sites. At least that was my reason to go for the NX70 and not just get a blue tooth stick. (BTW, now that I have it I'm gonna get rid of the T625C, man that NX70 rulez!)

Indeed any third party could create an MS WiFi stick. Why don't they? Well, probably no money in it. Actually, my bet is that some third party developer IS working on one, but that the end-result will be sold under the Sony brand.

So I still say: market small + hardware not mature yet, but will change in (near) future. Ergo, no malicous intent from Sony.

[monkeygr@ss]

Hiroshi Matsubara, part of the Mixed Device Group at Sony, said "There's no denying that Bluetooth hasn't been as prevalent as its standardization organization initially expected."

He went on to say, "We pushed the development of the Infostick ahead of commercialization because we wanted to be trendsetters in Bluetooth technology. We hoped to demonstrate our initiative in deploying Bluetooth, both within and outside of Sony. "

They considered a IEEE 802.11b Memory Stick but decided it would cost too much to develop, would be too large, and draw too much power from the Clié.

You can catch the whole text from an older PIC article written by Ed here - http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1781

Just FYI for those who think a WiFi MS is anything worth holding out for... And this was the BT MS that still has not been released in the US yet...

What's the hold up Sony? ;)

[patrickl]

You don't give up do you? You mean that a PC does not need more than 640kB? You know Bill Gates said that some (20?) years ago. Electronics have a way of shrinking/evolving in time. So quoting a 2 year old interview can kinda get things out of perspective. Please don't do that.

But anyway, I'm glad you finally see why Sony doesn't have this WiFi Memory stick already. Now to get you to grasp the next bit. One of these days Sony (or their preferred supplier) WILL be able to fit it and, as they more recently said, they will produce one.

[akfreas]

If SanDisk is going to come out with a Wi-Fi SD card, which goes into devices with an even smaller battery, then what is the reason for Sony to hold back a Wi-Fi Memory Stick? It wouldn't even be to their disadvantage, either. They could keep selling their WL-100 to the people with a compatible device and sell the WIFI MS to customers with a thin Clie like the T665C. The advantage is all theirs. See, people who have a Clie with the CF-like slot will be better off because they will still have that MS slot open for downloading stuff and storage. People with a WIFI MS will not have that slot, but still be able to do web browsing and a thinner PDA. In my opinion, Sony will be screwing themselves if SanDisk comes out with this WIFI SD (at a low price) and they do not compete. I would switch over to a Palm device if I Sony did not have anything like that.

[patrickl]

and then Sony demonstrates a WiFi Memory stick at CeBit. I guess that concludes the debate.

[monkeygr@ss]

Sony demostrates a LOT of things at shows that never seem to find their way to market.

The debate will be over when anyone who owns a Clie can actually find, purchase, install and USE a WiFi memory stick! ;)

MuHahahahah!!!

I'm just messing with you patrickl. :D This WiFi MS may one day come out. I just got sick of waiting (going on 2 years). Nearly every other I/O format has a Wifi Stick being produced. The point of paying the *Sony* premium is lost on me when their product is slower, smaller, and not as expandable as the competition.