1src Forums - Do you think Cliesource should ban unregistered users?

jiserrab

02-15-2003, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by ___
Well if you think about it this way: When you go on vacation, do you want to get respected as a tourist, or simply be treated like garbage. I see nothing wrong in unregistered posts...there is no advantage to posting REGISTERED. You can even unlist your phone number, so why can't you post annonymously. People have the right to privacy.

I don't think the hotel would like it if I just go into any open room and make myself at home...I do have to register to stay or gain many of the benefits of that hotel.

BTW I have noticed a lot of "unregistered" post have been quite negative against members or just trying to flame. I would suspect that if these "trolls" had to go through the reg process it may deter them.

*YellowRose*

02-15-2003, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by jiserrab
BTW I have noticed a lot of "unregistered" post have been quite negative against members or just trying to flame. I would suspect that if these "trolls" had to go through the reg process it may deter them. I agree.

birick

02-15-2003, 07:37 PM

Jun

02-15-2003, 08:00 PM

I think Cliesource should require Unregistered to donate money to this site everytime Unregistered make a NEW THREAD or even POST A REPLY!

JUST KIDDING! :D

Griff

02-15-2003, 08:37 PM

Right to privacy while using an alias posting in a public forum? OK, I see 3 things wrong with that argument.

Molerat

02-15-2003, 09:11 PM

Enough with the elitist attitudes here.

Try to remember how it was when you just joined. I'm sure the threads were all new to you. I'm sure you didn't have all the answers. And I'm sure you didn't use the search function as often as you should have. Let's just answer the questions, people! Take a look at the member roster... most registrations have, what, less than 10 posts to their credit? Why make someone register if they just have a quick question about the CLIE?

The *only* reason trolling and so-called "redundant questions" are a problem is because people choose to make them problems. There is no mandate that says you have to reply to a troll. There is no mandate that says you have to answer questions. If you disagree with, or are bored by a topic, then simply move on to the next thread. Those that reply to trolling posts bear just as much responsiblity for the problem as the so-called troll. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that can be done about trolling if the masses continue to respond. That's a simple fact of internet bulletin boards.

Let's all try to keep CLIESOURCE as open as possible! Let's show a little civility here and remember we were all newbies once too. And let's remember OUR responsibility to ignore attempts at trolling.

Specific

02-15-2003, 09:24 PM

Nah, let them post, right to privacy etc. I've seen FAR more trolling / negative posts from registered users here than from unregistered ones.

hherbzilla

02-15-2003, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Molerat
Enough with the elitist attitudes here.

Try to remember how it was when you just joined.Yeah, I remember when I first joined... which equals when I REGISTERED. I took the minute it required to register. The threads were new to me, I didn't search at first, I didn't have all the answers (still don't), but at least I was registered. Requiring people to register doesn't make ClieSource any less "open."

OcellNuri

02-15-2003, 09:28 PM

I don't see many registered members making posts like these....

"Search for Mr Taxi"
http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=55798#post55798

I'd rather not have this junk filling up the forum.

___

02-15-2003, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by Griff
Right to privacy while using an alias posting in a public forum? OK, I see 3 things wrong with that argument.

Yes please elaborate. I see nothing wrong with that argument. So you are saying you cannot piss in a "public toilet" without having privacy? I can surely do it, unless I get stuck on my way out the toilet like you would. An alias is an identity, WHICH can be anonymous. GG. newb.

boomer

02-15-2003, 09:36 PM

oops - my mouse slipped and I voted for option 1 - but I really meant 2!!

YES - Register to Post. 

 

But on the other hand - will that really stop anything? 

 

kidfixer

02-15-2003, 09:47 PM

There should be a level playing ground here, I think. All we see are your words and opinions. Everybody gets to know you by the opinions you voice. Your expertise in all things clie becomes something that may or may not be reliable, and we learn to respect each others' views or we get booted out, like what happened a while ago. How are you going to boot out an unregistered user. What if the original unregistered post was by one person and all subsequent posts are by others? Who can we trust among them. There should be a way for all those that visit this forum to differentiate them.

To say that either everybody gets registered or nobody gets registered may be a little too draconic, but can we at least see all or part of their IP address (or something like that) to keep track of them?

Until then, theyshould not be allowed to post. I saw a couple of posts that were made for nothing other than spam - ie the $100 NZ pyramid scheme a few days ago.

Unregistered

02-15-2003, 09:54 PM

I obviously can't vote since I choose to not register. But if you're interested, I have no problem if ClieSource would require me to be registered inorder to post. I hope that viewing would not be blocked though.

Recently my wife switched from a Handspring Visor to a Clie T-615. And I am seriously considering switching from my Visor Pro to the new Clie SJ-33. I have never been big on registering at sites due to fears of increased SPAM. If this site had blocked unregistered users being able to view posts, I'd not be even considering switching, due to my perception of Sony's lack of support.

I have read a lot of posts here. This is a good site for clie info. But any time I have a question, it's usually already been asked by someone else. In fact, this is the only post I have made at ClieSource.

-Aces

OcellNuri

02-15-2003, 10:00 PM

Aces,

Registering actually decreases ads... it will eliminate the popup ad on the front page of Cliesource. Also, you never get e-mail sent to you unless you enable the options in your profile. I hope you stick around. The SJ33 looks like an excellent unit!

*YellowRose*

02-15-2003, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered
I have never been big on registering at sites due to fears of increased SPAM. Aces, have you ever considered getting a hotmail email account to use when registering at sites like this?  That could be your 'spam catcher' and then your regular address will be left alone.  Hotmail does not require any other email address to get one  (Yahoo does . ..)   Something to think about, anyhow.

Jake K

02-15-2003, 10:21 PM

If we were to disallow unregistered users from posting their opinions we would be losing a great value to Cliesource. I've seen unregistered users give descriptive and helpful suggestions. They offer their help often. The only problem I see from allowing unregistered people to post is that we get a few PPC trolls that like to offer their (often unhelpful) commentary.

hherbzilla

02-15-2003, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by Jake K
If we were to disallow unregistered users from posting their opinions we would be losing a great value to Cliesource. I certainly haven't tried to quantify, but it seems to me that valuable unregistered posts are few and far between. By far, the majority of good posts I've seen are from registered users (and we all know who they are). I'm not saying that unregistered users can't add value, but they don't compare to the amount of good posts from the registered users. Plus I still don't understand what's the big deal about registering! It's simple, it's easy... just do it!

rob_squared

02-15-2003, 11:16 PM

OcelNuri, excellent point.

I just feel that if you're going to be part of a community you should have a preverbial house, also known as a registered username.

Molerat

02-15-2003, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by hherbzilla
Yeah, I remember when I first joined... which equals when I REGISTERED. I took the minute it required to register. The threads were new to me, I didn't search at first, I didn't have all the answers (still don't), but at least I was registered. Requiring people to register doesn't make ClieSource any less "open."

It does make CLIESOURCE less open. This board serves both as a an owner's club and as a source of information. Requiring registration does make it more cumbersome for random visitors to ask questions. Many people stop in briefly and move on. No need to require them to register. All other things being equal, I think registrations are unnecessary.

Molerat

02-15-2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by OcellNuri
I don't see many registered members making posts like these....

"Search for Mr Taxi"
http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=55798#post55798

I'd rather not have this junk filling up the forum.

A legitimate complaint. But I would argue that there are far more "X is better than Y because I say so" threads than warez plugs. My central thesis is that I believe CLIESOURCE should make this site as open and inviting as possible. To that effect, I think it would be more effective to use the "Report this post to a moderator" function than require user registrations. Registered users choose to participate. Requiring registration seems like a reactionary measure to me.

OcellNuri

02-15-2003, 11:30 PM

I am still sort of split between the options. I'm more playing devil's advocate here, just posting my thoughts.

I just want to make this point... The great thing about registration is that when users to make the "X is better than Y because I say so" posts every few seconds, I have the option to add them to my ignore list and not have to look at it.

Griff

02-15-2003, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by ___

Yes please elaborate. I see nothing wrong with that argument. So you are saying you cannot piss in a "public toilet" without having privacy? I can surely do it, unless I get stuck on my way out the toilet like you would. An alias is an identity, WHICH can be anonymous. GG. newb.

OK, pretty simple....one you are using an alias here, no one really knows who you are, so in a way, it is private. Two, you are choosing to post, you are giving up your right to privacy by doing so. Three, this is a public forum, you can't expect privacy when posting in a public forum.

I was wondering what your reference to getting stuck in a public toilet had to do with the argument...perhaps you can elaborate a bit, because I can only assume it was an attempt at a personal attack as you lacked the intelligence to fully defend your position.

Since you brought it up though, do you have a right to be in a public toilet, cussing up a storm and still expect privacy? No, I think not, I believe you'd be drug out and your privacy found to be dead.

Jake K

02-16-2003, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by hherbzilla
I certainly haven't tried to quantify, but it seems to me that valuable unregistered posts are few and far between. By far, the majority of good posts I've seen are from registered users (and we all know who they are). I'm not saying that unregistered users can't add value, but they don't compare to the amount of good posts from the registered users. Plus I still don't understand what's the big deal about registering! It's simple, it's easy... just do it!

Maybe there aren't as many useful posts by unregistered users as I had implied. I made my post mainly speaking of this users work.

http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3099&pagenumber=3

Read the thread and see how much he has done.

Spiral

02-16-2003, 01:22 AM

There are some people that have contributed, even as unregistered users. Also, most people might want to ask a question or two, see what the board is like before they register.

How about an option to be able to post but not able to start threads? That woudl reduce some junk, so any junk would be a line or two insed a thread u could easily skip.

vw_bugg

02-16-2003, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by jiserrab

Ummm..you can't vote if you are unregistered.

I really did not know this. Moderater, please remove that option.

Mr Sheen

02-16-2003, 01:47 AM

I you are serious in your desire to participate in CLIESOURCE, whether giving or receiving, to register should not present a problem.

No registration, no posting.

Sheen

boomer

02-16-2003, 06:37 AM

The main problem with 'unregistered' postings are that you can't tell one from the other.  I think that a bunch of these postings may be registered members who don't want to show their normal alias.  Registered member posts add a little bit of creditability to the message.  It is not hard to register, and if we require that then at least we'll know which person we are talking to. 

 

BTW - can I sign up here with more than one name at a time to the same email address?

hherbzilla

02-16-2003, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Molerat
All other things being equal, I think registrations are unnecessary. Ahh, but they're not. So I guess you're in support of registration. ;)

Talula

02-16-2003, 08:05 AM

I think you should be registered to post. I feel this way mostly because I find it very confusing when I am trying to follow a conversation in a thread with more than one unregistered user posting at a time. I can not distinguish one from the other so some times it might appear as if one person is having a conversation with themselves (and who knows maybe they are).

I noticed some people have user names but are stilled labled "guest". Is there a way to make everyone at least choose a user name?

Talula

Vidge

02-16-2003, 11:29 AM

I don't mind unregistereds reviewing the posts but if they want to post, they should register. And for those who forget to log in before they post, it would be a reminder (how many "oops, the above post was mine, forgot to log in" posts have you seen?)

Unregistered

02-16-2003, 11:34 AM

I won't log in anymore, and I will read and post as if I was.

NOBODY WILL RECOGNIZE MEEEEE. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

*YellowRose*

02-16-2003, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered
I won't log in anymore, and I will read and post as if I was.

NOBODY WILL RECOGNIZE MEEEEE. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. THE SHADOW KNOWS!   (And so do the mods!)

sebring

02-16-2003, 12:19 PM

No!

Molerat

02-16-2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by hherbzilla
Ahh, but they're not. So I guess you're in support of registration. ;)

D'oh! That was suppoed to read "I'll address other points made by other users in seperate replies, but for now, take it as I oppose registration," but somehow came out supporting registrations. Ooops! ;)

Unregistered

02-16-2003, 12:41 PM

Some users post as unregistered because it allows them to provide relevant information that they wouldn't otherwise be able to, for various reasons, in a public forum. This isn't done to flame others or cause dissension of any sort.

It would be okay to not allow unregistered users to start new threads, since the case above would only necessitate replying to existing threads.

Unregistered

02-16-2003, 12:58 PM

I assume some of you are adults, yet S O M E of you whine like poorly parented children. If you weren't whining about 'unregistered post' you would whine about the ClieSource color scheme, or start yet another 'registered' attack on a fellow 'registered' member whom disagrees with your 'OH MY GOD I'M ALWAYS RIGHT' view.

If Reggie wanted to set the site up 'your way' he would have...

JS

*YellowRose*

02-16-2003, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered
I assume some of you are adults, yet S O M E of you whine like poorly parented children. If you weren't whining about 'unregistered post' you would whine about the ClieSource color scheme, or start yet another 'registered' attack on a fellow 'registered' member whom disagrees with your 'OH MY GOD I'M ALWAYS RIGHT' view.

If Reggie wanted to set the site up 'your way' he would have...

JS Hmmmmmm . . . more fuel to the no unregistered posting fire, I suppose . . .

jiserrab

02-16-2003, 02:39 PM

Molerat

02-16-2003, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by *YellowRose*
Hmmmmmm . . . more fuel to the no unregistered posting fire, I suppose . . .

This is a perfect illustration of the real problem here: that some people don't like what others are saying, or how they say it.

Requiring registrations *will not* sanitize people's posts. It will not instill everyone with a sense of respect and civility. Without naming names, I'm sure we can all think of a few posters that are generally annoying.

"Unregistered" users are being scapegoated here. Sure, some post inflammatory comments, but so do registered users. Sure, registered users can be added to your ignore list, but there is a better way: do not respond to trolling posts. It's that simple. Use the mind's ignore list...or something like that. :)

OcellNuri

02-16-2003, 06:32 PM

Someone brought up a great point though.. if we require registration, then Sony employees wouldn't be able to leak information without the fear of getting their hands cut off.. right? :D

boomer

02-16-2003, 06:45 PM

Not at all - they just need to register as anyone else can - with an alias. 

yorrick

02-16-2003, 06:55 PM

I think we oughtta shoot all the unregistered users to prevent them from posting at all! :) :)

Great discussion guys - and the debate is about striking a balance for unregistered users to peruse and discuss without joining a community and forcing people to join up.

How about additional "restrictions" for unregistered users:
1) Block them from polls.
2) Posting or placing feedback on reviews.
3) Posting/uploading files
4) Downloading files - like skins etc (dunno about this one.)

At this point in time, I am quite happy with the balance of access and restrictions on unregistered users (even without the above restrictions). Moreover, I am more than satisfied with the work of the moderators (and a big thank you for keeping these forums reasonably sane!).
I would consider restrictions on unregistered users if ClieSource adds more services or features which would add more value than what is available at the moment.

hherbzilla

02-16-2003, 06:58 PM

I still don't understand the resistance to registering.

Mr Sheen

02-16-2003, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by hherbzilla
I still don't understand the resistance to registering.

Me neither. Millions of people are on Yahoo groups and they do not have qualms about registering. Why so then for CLIESOURCE?

Sheen

*YellowRose*

02-16-2003, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Mr Sheen
Me neither. Millions of people are on Yahoo groups and they do not have qualms about registering. Why so then for CLIESOURCE?  Ahhhh!  But there are those that complain about that, and will not sign up for them either. 

They're 'afraid' of spam . . .

tanker_bob

02-17-2003, 01:09 AM

I voted no register, no post. Nothing in life is free. Too many want life with no accountability--everything free with no responsibility. Resistration is free, but introduces some small measure of accountability. PalmInfoCenter improved 1000% when they went to required registration. The Source doesn't have the problems they did, but I think it wise to ensure that the Source doesn't get there.

Tom P.

02-17-2003, 02:51 AM

When I first got my Clie I had a look around some of the sites about Palms and came across Cliesource. Although it looked good I wasn't willing to commit to a community that might not be helpful, informative etc. Also I had to question whether I could trust the owners to look after my details.

Obviously on all of the above worries my fears were unfounded :). One of the main reason I joined was that I asked a couple of questions and got very helpful and welcoming replies. Without these I'd never have joined.

The community should take the responsibility on themselves to answer unregistered posters questions and help them out. This will encourage the poster to sign up. I've seen far too many people replying to unregistered posters questions with:
"Why aren't you registered?"
"Are you too lazy too register?"
etc
These people are often new, don't understand forum board etiquette and need to be welcomed not offended.

hherbzilla

02-17-2003, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by Tom P.
When I first got my Clie I had a look around some of the sites about Palms and came across Cliesource. Although it looked good I wasn't willing to commit to a community that might not be helpful, informative etc. Also I had to question whether I could trust the owners to look after my details.

Obviously on all of the above worries my fears were unfounded :). One of the main reason I joined was that I asked a couple of questions and got very helpful and welcoming replies. Without these I'd never have joined. If you're unsure at first, all you need to do is read the forums for a few days to see that questions get answered, that people are helpful, and that there's a sense of community here.
The community should take the responsibility on themselves to answer unregistered posters questions and help them out. This will encourage the poster to sign up. I've seen far too many people replying to unregistered posters questions with:
"Why aren't you registered?"
"Are you too lazy too register?"
etc
These people are often new, don't understand forum board etiquette and need to be welcomed not offended. Why the double standard? Why should the community take the responsbility to commit/answer questions when the poster won't make the commitment to register? Like tanker_bob said, nothing is "free."

As for the comments (e.g., "why aren't you registered?"), obviously this wouldn't be an issue if everyone had to register. It's quite simple, really. If someone tries to post, they get a nice message: "Thanks for your interest in ClieSource! In order to post, you must first register. Registration is free. We respect your privacy and will never sell your e-mail address. If you're unsure about registering, please browse the forums for a few days and you'll see what a great community of users this is."

SamuraiCatJB

02-17-2003, 09:28 AM

most of my forums for nvidia, 3D graphics, and game programming/techniques, all using vbulletin software (same here, maybe not same version), all require registration before post. One does not allow reading either (techniques and programming). The latter is very small, though probably due to expressed speciality, but the others are NOT hurting for posters most days.... especially when there is an ATI/nVidia war....

sam knupp

02-17-2003, 06:48 PM

Banning, censoring, "charging admission", "us vs. "them", and every other label for the "arrived" vs. the "new" is contrary to sharing of thoughts and information. Forums without free access are just places where the new and unexpected is left at the door. The world wide web, computers, libraries, and free speech are based upon access and openness. Lets welcome everyone and make this forum setting a place that is respectful of the diversity of opinion and thought. When I read the forums I find much to think about and am always struck by the possibilities inherient in gatherings. Respectfully, Sam Knupp

Molerat

02-17-2003, 08:02 PM

^ Exactly.

Originally posted by hherbzilla
Why the double standard? Why should the community take the responsbility to commit/answer questions when the poster won't make the commitment to register? Like tanker_bob said, nothing is "free."

As for the comments (e.g., "why aren't you registered?"), obviously this wouldn't be an issue if everyone had to register. It's quite simple, really. If someone tries to post, they get a nice message: "Thanks for your interest in ClieSource! In order to post, you must first register. Registration is free. We respect your privacy and will never sell your e-mail address. If you're unsure about registering, please browse the forums for a few days and you'll see what a great community of users this is."

The difference is that this "double standard" is self-imposed, rather than inherent. It is an "opt in" standard. Those that register do so because they choose to contribute; they choose to be a member of the community; and they choose more than a passing involvement. Other (well intentioned, interested, respectful) people may only be passing through. They may not be interested in contributing to the community, "learning the ropes," or whatnot. They may simply want an answer to a simple question -- quickly.

With a virtually non-existent troll population and knowledgable user base, I see no reason registration should be mandatory.

hherbzilla

02-17-2003, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by sam knupp
Banning, censoring, "charging admission", "us vs. "them", and every other label for the "arrived" vs. the "new" is contrary to sharing of thoughts and information. Forums without free access are just places where the new and unexpected is left at the door. The world wide web, computers, libraries, and free speech are based upon access and openness. Lets welcome everyone and make this forum setting a place that is respectful of the diversity of opinion and thought. Who is talking about banning and censoring? We're saying one thing and you're hearing another. Requiring people to register is NOT antithetical to access, openness, sharing or being respectful to diversity of opinion and thought.

I must be missing something because I don't understand the strong opposition to registration.

cbulock

02-17-2003, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by hherbzilla
I must be missing something because I don't understand the strong opposition to registration.

I don't think your missing anything. What's so terrible about signing up? I feel this place should be as open as possible, but signing up doesn't restrict any kind of access from anyone. It takes like a minute, TWO at tops. I've spent countless hours here and I feel that someone spending two minutes of their time to join the community is not much to ask. In the end, I think people will feel it was well worth it.

hherbzilla

02-17-2003, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by Molerat
Those that register do so because they choose to contribute; they choose to be a member of the community; and they choose more than a passing involvement. Other (well intentioned, interested, respectful) people may only be passing through. They may not be interested in contributing to the community, "learning the ropes," or whatnot. They may simply want an answer to a simple question -- quickly.You almost got it right. By choosing to be a member of the community, we choose to contribute and help OTHER members of the community. If someone can't spare the minute required to register, then they're not part of the community. If they want an answer to a simple question, then they should register -- quickly.

Jake K

02-17-2003, 10:02 PM

Proof that we need to ban unregistered users from posting?

http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4067

tanker_bob

02-17-2003, 10:11 PM

The offensive post was deleted by a moderator, but the point about accountability was well made. And good point-out anyway, as I hope I was able to help the original inquirer.

Hong Kong Nick

02-17-2003, 10:13 PM

I have recently registered.

I browsed the forums for a while, picking up some info and seeing some of my unasked questions answered!

When it was time to ask my own question, I registered ... it took about 4 minutes of my time ... 1 minute to fill in the form and another 3 minutes to wait for the confirmation email and follow the final steps. Done. Easy.

From a personal point of view, I don't see why anbody with a question doesn't simply register ... it's simple, free and easy ...

BUT ... this type of forum should NOT be a closed forum ... people like me would never have got simple answers to unasked questions and would never form their own opinions on what a decent piece of kit the Clie is ... I might have gone for a pocket PC :eek: !!

My little bit ...

Cheers.

Nick

cbulock

02-17-2003, 10:20 PM

^^ I think that is a great point.

We need some way to make posters accountable, but this board can never be restricted in a way where you are charged monthly fees, or even required to sign up to read posts. If that ever happened, I think the community would slowly begin to die.

tanker_bob

02-17-2003, 10:28 PM

Agree with herb, Hong Kong, cbulock--anybody can read but only registered can post.

Rowdy

02-17-2003, 10:30 PM

I guess I think of registration this way...

I don't like it when someone calls, and then won't give their name. It's a courtesy thing. At least if you register, we can associate a name (any name) with the question or conversation or whatever. Is "Rowdy" really any less anonymous than "Unregistered"?? Only to my parents... :)

sam knupp

02-17-2003, 11:27 PM

I do not believe in the concept of "banning" as a way of promoting higher degress of civility, involvement or content. I have always been struck by the inherient "neighborliness" of the "early adopter" technical community. As a long time PDA user (going back to the Newtons and Pilots) I have greatly enjoyed the sense of "fraternity" that comes when I see someone using a PDA. It always leads to conversation and a smile of "recognizing" a "fellow" "nut". There is a simple pleasure in the "sharing" of interests and knowledge. It is forums like Cliesource and yourselves as members that make life a little more interesting and a little more enjoyable. Sharing what we know and value brings about vital connections and communications. Many times I have found answers to questions I have about my PDA's in reading these pages. I do not post because it is difficult for me. I recently was severely brain injured at work and now live in a much "narrower" world. My NX70 allows me to function more normally and I rely greatly on its "memory", voice recorder and camera. I can no longer taste or smell and other sense are scrambled. However color has taken on a much greater meaning and "value". The other day I "crashed" my Clie and lost my "extra brain". It was most difficult for me. I found the solution to my problem in these shared "musings". For someone like me forums are a "window on the world". And they allow for a larger and more hopeful perspective. Writing this is laborous for me because of high error rates and energy usage. I write this because I believe a very important issue is at stake. It is not just a matter of "taste" and following some "rules". Rather it is about the "message" that is sent to each person as they arrive at this site. I would like to see the "welcome mat" out and a "candle lit in the window". The free sharing of your knowlege and opinion is at its best a gift that can help, guide and change. I once posted on a clie site a "stupid" question and was made aware of my stupidity. Because of my injury I have lost many IQ points and do not think with my preinjury depth and clarity. It made me feel ashamed and I decided not to "risk" posting agan. Registering will not guarentee a greater "committment" to sharing or excellence. Instead its subtle mindset is that of a "gated" community. We cannot "protect" Cliesource from the "outside" malicious forces. I trust the experience, intellect and skills of the forum members to quickly identify a "hoax" or intentionally meanspirited post for what it is and to respond appropriately. I believe that "our tradition" of the PDA world is seen in the manner two PDA users respond to one another in the real world. When you see another PDA user clutching their "friend" your first response is to smile and make contact, to share the fact that you too have one and to talk about the relative merits of your devices - even if it is a pocket pc user. There is a natural trust and friendliness that is very special. It literally can make a dark day better. I would not like to see that connection quality lost. Please continue to leave the "latch string out" for those who come by to visit. Thank you for letting me share. Sam Knupp

Mr Sheen

02-17-2003, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by sam knupp
I do not believe in the concept of "banning"

It is not about banning, maybe poor wording, but about restricting posting access. Anyone can read and benefit from the accumulated knowledge in CS. But if you want to post you should be required to register.

Sheen

Unregistered

02-18-2003, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by tanker_bob
Agree with herb, Hong Kong, cbulock--anybody can read but only registered can post.

Tanker Bob and others,

If I was unable to post as a unregistered I would not have been able to repond to your issue concerning FACER crashing...or the many other registered or unregistered questions I have answered in the past 1.5 years as unregistered.

I haven't registered for a few reasons:
1) Dont like cookies, don't want cookies, don't except any.
2) I do not wish to enter a user name and password to log in. No I don't save passwords in my browser and as an ***** I have WAY to many ID's/passwords.
2) The only forum I can't view/post in is OFF-TOPIC, I don't visit ClieSource for those discussions.
3) As Unregistered I cannot download. Not a issue as I like to get my software directly from the developer when possible (most up to date and often includes fixes such as in the case of FACER)

(Shamless plug for ZLauncher to follow: Zlauncher/ZZtechs should be the model for all developers)

Although If required by the operators of ClieSource I might register, but I know I would rarely bother to sign in.

I personally don't see any reason to change the current rules. ClieSource and it's Moderators in my opinion have and continue to do a GREAT job.

Simply put Some Log-In/Some Don't

JS

Unregistered

02-18-2003, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by sam knupp
I do not believe in the concept of "banning" as a way of promoting higher degress of civility, involvement or content. I have always been struck by the inherient "neighborliness" of the "early adopter" technical community. As a long time PDA user (going back to the Newtons and Pilots) I have greatly enjoyed the sense of "fraternity" that comes when I see someone using a PDA. It always leads to conversation and a smile of "recognizing" a "fellow" "nut". There is a simple pleasure in the "sharing" of interests and knowledge. It is forums like Cliesource and yourselves as members that make life a little more interesting and a little more enjoyable. Sharing what we know and value brings about vital connections and communications. Many times I have found answers to questions I have about my PDA's in reading these pages. I do not post because it is difficult for me. I recently was severely brain injured at work and now live in a much "narrower" world. My NX70 allows me to function more normally and I rely greatly on its "memory", voice recorder and camera. I can no longer taste or smell and other sense are scrambled. However color has taken on a much greater meaning and "value". The other day I "crashed" my Clie and lost my "extra brain". It was most difficult for me. I found the solution to my problem in these shared "musings". For someone like me forums are a "window on the world". And they allow for a larger and more hopeful perspective. Writing this is laborous for me because of high error rates and energy usage. I write this because I believe a very important issue is at stake. It is not just a matter of "taste" and following some "rules". Rather it is about the "message" that is sent to each person as they arrive at this site. I would like to see the "welcome mat" out and a "candle lit in the window". The free sharing of your knowlege and opinion is at its best a gift that can help, guide and change. I once posted on a clie site a "stupid" question and was made aware of my stupidity. Because of my injury I have lost many IQ points and do not think with my preinjury depth and clarity. It made me feel ashamed and I decided not to "risk" posting agan. Registering will not guarentee a greater "committment" to sharing or excellence. Instead its subtle mindset is that of a "gated" community. We cannot "protect" Cliesource from the "outside" malicious forces. I trust the experience, intellect and skills of the forum members to quickly identify a "hoax" or intentionally meanspirited post for what it is and to respond appropriately. I believe that "our tradition" of the PDA world is seen in the manner two PDA users respond to one another in the real world. When you see another PDA user clutching their "friend" your first response is to smile and make contact, to share the fact that you too have one and to talk about the relative merits of your devices - even if it is a pocket pc user. There is a natural trust and friendliness that is very special. It literally can make a dark day better. I would not like to see that connection quality lost. Please continue to leave the "latch string out" for those who come by to visit. Thank you for letting me share. Sam Knupp

Well stated Sam

mrdeucie

02-18-2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by hherbzilla
I still don't understand the resistance to registering.

My hesitation in registering here is that I am already part of at least 10 other message boards. I didn't want another account if I wasn't planning on staying long. I can see where being able to post can come in handy when you are not registered. On most of the other forums I participate in Registration is required to post.

mrdeucie

02-18-2003, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Unregistered

Tanker Bob and others,

If I was unable to post as a unregistered I would not have been able to repond to your issue concerning FACER crashing...or the many other registered or unregistered questions I have answered in the past 1.5 years as unregistered.

This brings up another good point for the unregistered users. I was browsing on PDAStreet the other day because I was having a problem hard resetting my SJ30 and it seems that two other people were having the same problem. I would like to have helped them as I found the answer in the PDF manual but to do so I would have to register over there. I couldn't even e-mail them since only registered users were only allowed to obtain contact info (which I understand). Because of the required registration I was able to let inform them of the solution to the problem.

ksjenkins

02-18-2003, 11:35 AM

Ban unregistered - NOT! Just don't let them post unless they are willing to take the time to register.

Just my 2 cents!

hherbzilla

02-18-2003, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by mrdeucie
My hesitation in registering here is that I am already part of at least 10 other message boards. I didn't want another account if I wasn't planning on staying long. I can see where being able to post can come in handy when you are not registered. On most of the other forums I participate in Registration is required to post. But what's the big deal? If you keep all of the info the same (username, e-mail, etc.) it doesn't matter if you have one account or ten. And if you use cookies, you don't have to log in anyway.

Seems that this topic is like religion or politics. We can talk all we want about it, but nobody is going to change their mind about what they believe in. :)

cbulock

02-18-2003, 12:11 PM

I use the same loging name and password virtually everywhere I sign up for something on the Internet and have cookies enabled. I don't do this for personal information like my bank account and credit cards, but I'm not too worried about using the same info on message boards and such. Otherwise I would never rememeber all those names and passwords.

mrdeucie

02-18-2003, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by hherbzilla
But what's the big deal? If you keep all of the info the same (username, e-mail, etc.) it doesn't matter if you have one account or ten. And if you use cookies, you don't have to log in anyway.

Seems that this topic is like religion or politics. We can talk all we want about it, but nobody is chaning their minds about what they believe in. :)

I just don't like signing up for things I don't feel I'm going to keep up with. Would you register if you had just one question you wanted answered and nothing else?

hherbzilla

02-18-2003, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by mrdeucie
I just don't like signing up for things I don't feel I'm going to keep up with. Would you register if you had just one question you wanted answered and nothing else? If I couldn't get my question answered anywhere else, I certainly would.

Convert

02-18-2003, 12:46 PM

Requiring registration in order to post might restrict users behind firewalls. I know that I've had problems on this site. I registered, but was unable to login and remain logged in due to session cookie problems and our firewall. Only was able to overcome this by changing my profile to "Automatically login when you return to the site" - which I really don't like, but it's the cost in order to participate.

Talula

02-18-2003, 06:20 PM

I did vote for requiring people to register to post a few days ago however at the time I didn't think it was such a big deal and didn't really have a solid opinion. Well, I have a very solid opinion now.

There is one registered user on this forum who drives me a little buggy. He brings a rather negative vibe to the whole forum for me. He can be rather rude and even a bit innappropriate at times. It is true I can block him. Or even just avoid reading his post when I see his name. But he frequently posts as unregistered because he is "too lazy to log in." I can't avoid this guy because I can't screen out his unregistered posts.

It is really starting to bug me. So please, lets keep unregistered users from posting. Let them read all they want, but take the time to log in, please!

nextyoyoma

02-18-2003, 10:27 PM

On the page prior to this is a perfect example of why people should have to register...an unregistered member "quoted"an ENTIRE post and then said three words about it....no, this doesn't make me angry or anything, but it is annoying, and it would be nice if a moderator could say to that person "Hey, try not to do that." Accountability should not just have to do with malicious and degrading posts, but also with this kind of thing.
Also, I like to know whose post I am reading...what if someone gives typically horrible advice? I should be able to ignore that person, and if they have very good advice, I could look for threads in which they have posted. I think the sense of community is greatly increased by having a name to associate with posts. It makes me feel more a part of a community. Anyway....just my 1 0 cents...hehe

Unregistered

02-19-2003, 02:58 PM

It appears the decision has been made. Unregistered users cannot post on at least one of the forums (Even though the rule box says you can). I tried to post to a thread about pros & Cons of Tungsten T vs. Clie SJ33, but am not able. If one of you registered members feels so inclined, you might want to post this to the "tungsten or sj33" thread:

------------------
I was amazed that no one had brought up battery life as an issue when comparing the T with the SJ33. (7 days vs. 17 days) That is why I won't even think of getting the T.

-Aces
------------------

PS. I haven't ruled out registering completely. But I want to create a hotmail email address first.

Aces

02-19-2003, 03:39 PM

FYI,

After looking at Hotmails ".net" requirements, I decided I'll chance it with registering with my real email address. If you notice, I'm now part of the community....

-Aces

hherbzilla

02-19-2003, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Aces
FYI,

After looking at Hotmails ".net" requirements, I decided I'll chance it with registering with my real email address. If you notice, I'm now part of the community....

-Aces Welcome, Aces :)

tanker_bob

02-19-2003, 05:49 PM

Second the welcome aboard!

ralchizar

02-19-2003, 05:56 PM

what is really the advantage of having unregistered post? I know that it is inconvienent to regester, but it is more of a hassle to deal with trolls and the like than it is to register, come on people!
The worst is when an unregistered starts a rumor just to get us riled up, but because he is unregistered, he is not accountable.
Come on everyone, just register already.

vw_bugg

02-20-2003, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by Mr Sheen

It is not about banning, maybe poor wording, but about restricting posting access. Anyone can read and benefit from the accumulated knowledge in CS. But if you want to post you should be required to register.

Sheen

Yes, extremely bad wording and I apologize. I tried, I thought for a while, but could think of no better way to say it.

I just realized i voted but never stated my opinion:confused: ,
I think we should not let unregistered post but by all means the should be able to veiw everything. Sometimes, yes, there will be those couple of times you will come to a question you can awnser, but cant because you have to register, but most of the time you will either register or let a registered person awnser as is happens most of the time anyway. As a couple have said, with the ability to veiw, Unregistered can search around for a while and see the we here awnser almost every question with a complete and informative awnser. Unregistered, may only have a quick question and may not want to join CS, in this case a search would almost always yeild the awnser. Also registration allows, no no, forces accountability. It lets everyone know who it is that is talking. It also allows that person to send or receive email or PM. And no longer would someone be able to hit "Log off" when they want to insult or pesonally attack someone.