1src Forums - Why are so many people switching to PALMone?

gazzab

01-08-2004, 02:42 AM

I switched because of the size and the 'non-standard' of some of the Clie features and API's.

Also with Palm OS 6 very near to release, I would expect my T3 to be upgradable directly from Palm without then waiting for Sony to release an update if ever, they would probably release a new model and ignore their existing users.

I would that the Clie I had before looked very tatty after a month or two of use, where previous Palms still look good and work well after many years.

Then there is the costs. In the UK we don't get the rebates or the freebies that other countries get and therefore the Sony's are so much more expensive than the Palm devices. I do miss the camera on my PDA and the mini keyboard, but not enough to pay an extra £150+.

As ever, it's an individual choice and at the moment I think the T3 is simply great!

ClieKun

01-08-2004, 02:46 AM

rebates free stuff? neither do we in Japan! it seem only the USa buyers get everything! But cost as lessfor sonypalms then palmones.

AndyJapan

01-08-2004, 03:09 AM

ClieKun,

I guess that you are using the customer loyalty cards (aka Point cards) of BicCamera or Yodobashi camera, right?
I also check out prices of mail order shops on www.kakaku.com or www.bestgate.net.

I think that the prices that we pay in Japan are O.K. compared to the prices of SONY PDAs charged in Europe. I think that I would not have bought a Clie if I would live in Europe.

ClieKun

01-08-2004, 03:15 AM

They don`t care the palmone lines ( or not many styles if thats the case )BicCamera or Yodobashi camera, right, yea but getting service from them they are nuts! and very costly! I don`t deal with kakaku etc........ too many bad experiences when them!
Pricess on sonys are good palmones forget it! I deal with straight yen not ero or us money. So all i agree prices in japan for good. Infact prices are dropping.

AndyJapan

01-08-2004, 03:44 AM

ClieKun,

agree with you. I use www.kakaku.com mainly to check the lowest market prices. I am also reluctant to order from mail order shops as the service/support is usually bad or non existing.
By nature, the big shops (BicCamera etc.) are promoting products from Japanese manufacturers (see als XBox vs PS2).
SONY was and is still leading the PalmOS crowd, but PalmONE was able to get closer and catch up. The next Clie has to be a success, otherwise they'll lose market share.

ClieKun

01-08-2004, 08:59 AM

palmone use to be closer then before 3 years ago they lead! But now snoy is so far ahead that palmme does not try to go vs. sony.I now almost every geek heaven for electronics in tokyo. akihabara is a true freind og mine :D

oyakov

01-08-2004, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by lostether
The NX/NZ/UX is simply a different kind of machine compared to the T3. I can't imagine anyone who purchased a NX80 or UX50 would even consider switching to a machine with such limited capabilities in comparison.
I would and I do. I owned NR, NX, NZ machines for their 320x480, I don't care about camera (ha, camera - a joke, not a real camera!), I DON'T WANT a keyboard. I was waiting for a first opportunity to leave Sony. I hate Sony's dumb policy of proprietary stuff and not willingness to listen to the customers (where is 320x480 in a T-formfactor?). I hate them for not giving customers an opportunity to upgrade OS.

Vidge

01-08-2004, 11:09 AM

Simple reason why I switched from ny NR70V to first the T|C then the T2 then the T3: more memory. I got tired of waiting for Sony to come out with something that gave me more onboard memory than 16 meg. I never considered the NX - they were a step backwards in the memory department (14 meg usable on the NR vs 11 on the NX).

Of course, the fact that all my old Palm accessories (keyboard, cables, etc) worked so easily (thank you Palm for the UC) made the switch back fairly painless.

kp*

01-08-2004, 02:20 PM

I have not switched because the T3 does not have all the features I want, but I'm hoping Palm will come up with something for OS6 that rivals Sony in the multimedia department (though the two companies have always had different priorities in this respect). I'm really fed up with the API situation with Sony. Their software sucks and they won't let anyone else make it better. Palm may provide less to work with hardware-wise, but at least you can make use of what you have.

orol

01-08-2004, 02:39 PM

actually many switched because they had either NR or n6xx series and desperately wanted non-clamshell hires+ device with fast cpu & more ram and small in size

that is what T3 is good for. well it doesn't have wifi, but TC has.

smoothjordan

01-08-2004, 03:59 PM

i swithced because palmone had more to offer at a lower price.
smooth

Ultra SJ22

01-08-2004, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by PDA Expert
Why? :confused: Doesn't anyone like their Clie's anymore? Does PalmOne make better products?

No, it is because SONY sells style. The CLIEs look awesome, but the specs are not as good as the Palmones at he same price.

I mean, the Nxs have 16 - 32 megs of ram and the T| series have 32 - 64 AND an SD slot.
AND PALMONES HAVE SETEREO SPEAKERS INSTEAD OF MIDI ONES....

LOOK AT SIG :D

iboar

01-08-2004, 04:21 PM

I had a NX60. But I switched to a T2 because I really don't want all the multimedia stuff. I don't listen to MP3s, except on my desktop, I don't play games, and I'm too old to make my eyes strain to watch a video in HiRes or HiRes+ resolution. Plus I like the added memory and smaller footprint.

Sonys or great, but they are really more entertainment oriented and I really need the more business oriented PalmOne. So why should I pay for features I won't use?

One more thing, the screen on the T2 is far better than the screen on my old NX60!

smoothjordan

01-08-2004, 04:24 PM

I still think palm has a lot to offer for multimedia. What doesn't a T T3 have besides a camera what any other sony has?
Smooth

orol

01-08-2004, 04:26 PM

native mpeg, mpeg4 playback, a little better sound, styly design. but to each his own

iboar

01-08-2004, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by smoothjordan
I still think palm has a lot to offer for multimedia. What doesn't a T T3 have besides a camera what any other sony has?
Smooth

Agreed! However, from what I read in reviews Sony has the edge in multimedia.

TechnoCat

01-08-2004, 04:35 PM

Switching? Probably not. Using? Sure.

You make the critical error of assuming the brand-name is the paramount consideration. But usually it isn't. Do you know what brand television your office-mate has at home? Do you care what brand car he has? He got what made sense from a features-and-values perspective for HIS priorities.

My wife uses a Zire 71. She wanted an SJ33 suddenly, and I made her wait two weeks until the Z71 came out, and she fell deeper in love, and still is. It's accessible, feature-laden and powerful.

I use a UX50. Held onto my IIIc forever because I needed a compelling reason to upgrade. Usable keyboard and wireless was it; the T|C didn't have a decent form-factor or both wireless formats for my needs.

But two weeks ago I bought my mother a Sony SJ22(?). We wanted a backlight hi-rez system but otherwise cheap. Didn't care if it was a Palm or a Sony. The Sony costs less (on close-out presumably) so that's what we got.

PDAs are almost commodities, just as cars are almost commodities. Yeah, some people will only drive Audis, Mustangs, or Lexuses (Lexi?), but for most people if the equivalent Accord is $3K less than the Camry or Passat, they'll get the Camry unless the equivalent Outback or Century is another $2-3K less still. They might not even look at the 4-motion version of the Passat because they don't care, or they might eliminate the Accord and Camry and only look at the Passat, Outback and the Audi A4 1.8T model because they really want AWD.

PDAs are no different. Right now at MSRP, Palm is the value leader. The high-end (Ferrari-type) units are all Sonys, but the volume leaders are Palms at half the price.

smoothjordan

01-08-2004, 04:36 PM

I guess your right. THey look a little more stylish, while the palm's look more professional, IMO.
Smooth

PDH LA

01-08-2004, 05:09 PM

I owned a couple of Clies - N610C and then a NR70V. For a while, I was quite enthusiastic about Sony's devices, as Sony was clearly innovating when Palm was not.

I loved the large Hi-res screen on my NR70V and I was eagerly anticipating the next cool new Clie so I could once again upgrade. But there was nothing really compelling that would move me away from my NR70V. So I kept waiting, but Sony kept putting out machines that had everything but the kitchen sink!

I never used the keyboard, so I didn't really want another clamshell PDA. And I rarely used the camera. But I DID love the big hi-res screen and I really wanted more memory as I was tired of running apps from the memory card (too slow and clunky).

When the T3 came out, I snapped one up in an instant, and I haven't regretted it. It's small, fast, and has a fantastic screen. I would say that I use it 75% of the time in compact mode with the slider closed. But I love having the larger screen option -especially in landscape - when working with spreadsheets,viewing photos, and reading books.

Oh, and having 64mb of RAM is amazing. I still have only filled half of it, so I can dedicate my memory cards to storing the photos I carry around with me.

So for me, Sony is not producing what I want. The are producing larger, more complicated devices that are too expensive for my needs. I bought my T3 online for about $350 USD (including tax & shipping) and couldn't be happier.

BMEngineer

01-08-2004, 05:12 PM

CLIE looks professional also.

lostether

01-08-2004, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by BMEngineer
CLIE looks professional also.

I think both Palm and Sony have done a good job designing their PDA's and of course they have gone in totally different directions. Both will allow you to be both professional and Stylish in your own way. Just depends on your tastes and what kind of functionality you need. Which takes me back to my earlier post, if the T3, or any Palm, can do what you need it to do then that is great, but no Palm is capable of doing all that a high end Clie can do. The interesting thing is that with the Clie I can overcome many of the shortcomings I had learned to accept from other PDA's.

Athradon

01-08-2004, 07:33 PM

I used to be a Sony zealot, and I think they started out with great, useful products (the S, N, and T series), but nothing in their current lineup looks compelling.

- The clamshell models are too bulky for carrying around conveniently (i.e. in suit pants), and negate the ease of use found in any Tungsten model.
- The TG50 is a horribly designed product, with its unremovable non-wrap-around flip lid, awkward stylus placement, and poorly lit screen.
- The TJ35 is the closest I've seen to a PalmOne competitor, but the extremely awkward navigation (I tried a 35 for a week and returned it) and, well, the fact that it's been basically discoutinued because of design flaws leaves that out of the picture. And the TJ25 might as well run OS4 because it's functionally equivalent to the SJ22 due to lack of a speaker or headphone jack.
- And the UX...interesting but extremely overpriced. It has less functional memory than Palm's high-end units (64MB/52MB usable vs. 104MB/45MB usable...16MB plus 29MB 'internal media'). It doesn't even have 2X the memory of the $199 T|E. 8MHz-123MHz is not a selling feature, it's a hinderance. $650 buys a full WindowsXP laptop...it was one thing when the most high-end Palm was $400, but $650 (originally $700) is insane.

Also, Palm's pricing has been much more competitive than Sony's. Sony has no $99 unit, and the TJ25 is a pitiful match against the T|E. The NX73 is $449 with a $50 mail-in rebate, which matches it against the $399 T|T3. 52MB vs. 11MB of memory, Bluetooth built-in vs. quasi-CF slot to stick a $150 proprietary WiFi card in, small form factor vs. mediocre keyboard and camera that's no better than the one on my phone. Not to mention 400MHz vs. 200MHz processors. This kind of comparison could work for the T|C and the NX80, though the T|C has a $100 mail-in rebate now. And if Palm releases the rumored T|E2, I'll never consider another Clie again...

smoothjordan

01-08-2004, 07:56 PM

I hope they releas the T E 2. I have the T E and it's a great little machine with a nice price tag ($199 with 25 rebate at staples) and 256 mb sd card (49.99 at office max). Sony was my second PDA, after my handspring Treo 90, and I loved it. It just hasn't improved as much as palm has. Palm has finally raised the bar and right now Sony is falling short of it. The thing that probably hurt the most was the TJ-35 nightmare. If it hadn't been for all the problems, they'd still be ahead of the game or close to it.
*IMO*
Smooth

stronggeek

01-08-2004, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by BMEngineer
CLIE looks professional also.

I agree with you MMEngineer

And beyond that there's thread here that makes me laugh at those who crying about Sony not releasing the APIs (something that was never promised).

Petition for Sony's Release of the Sound API (http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29598)

r0b456 maks what I consider to be very valid points in this thread that just might make some think, not completely change their mids, but think.

This is one excerpt from his post:

"This is why I cannot understand people starting threads like "Just sold my NX70 for a Tungsten T3 -- so long proprietary Sony!!!!1". I simply sit there for a minute or two and wonder how many days it will take them to realize that they don't have the CF hacking issue on the T3 because there is no CF slot. That in their lack of understanding and their Frustration, they gave up a unit that had a MS slot (which actually has 1gb cards available, unlike SD) AND a CF slot which did have Some use for storage media. Especially with Pelaca's UX50 hacks. AND had optional WiFi. Suddenly they have a T3 with a Single flaky SD slot (Don't take it personally -- every SD PDA I have owned had problems with the SD cards/slots), and no WiFI option in the immediate future. And God help them when they do, because the T3 sucks down batteries like it's Juicy Juice. So then you start to question yourself as to why you got the T3. You remind yourself of the Hi-Res+ display, but then remember that the NX had that as well. You then remind yourself of the Landscape feature -- in the apps that support it. Right now, the web browser makes it all worth while. But then you remember that there is no WiFi, only a BT cell phone connection, and the 14.4 connection makes web browsing so painful, that viewing the pages in Widescreen isn't worth the extra 2 minutes it takes the page to load vs viewing it in portrait mode on an NX in Netfront."

This just makes to much sense to me.

BMEngineer

01-08-2004, 08:34 PM

While SD is coming up with 1GB, MS is coming up with 2GB!!!

stronggeek

01-08-2004, 08:37 PM

I know 2 cool huh?

I wonder what they'll charge for  the 2 gig?

I didn't catch a price.

stronggeek

01-08-2004, 08:38 PM

Furthermore, I'd jump over to palm1 if I thought there was a better unit to fulfill my needs, but curently such a machine does not exist.

iboar

01-08-2004, 09:09 PM

I'm glad there are two companies competing in the Palm market. Sony and PalmOne can keep on trying to one-up the other. I think it makes for better Palms. ("Palms" as in a handheld running the Palm OS regardless of manufacturer.)

I disagree that we shouldn't write about switching from one manufacturer to the other. I guess we could all become obediate little clones and continue to buy bad crap that gets crappier with each new release. OR, we could voice our disappointment in hopes that PalmOne and Sony will one day listen to us and manufacture Palms more to our needs and wishes.

My wish is that Sony would create a line of Clies without all the emphasis on multimedia to compete against the Tungsten line of PalmOnes. Seems like it would be good for Sony to have two branches of Clies: One for MM types that are tricked out to the limit, and one for the business types who don't won't to pay for all the MM stuff they won't use anyway.

vansouza

01-08-2004, 10:58 PM

I can not see switching just for memory.. when you can throw so much on a stick or card... If I switch back to Palm it will be because I am pissed at Sony for the nonstandard hardware... I want a GPS but I have the NZ and the connection is too non standard... that is what tempts me to Palm... :mad:

PDA Expert

01-08-2004, 11:20 PM

Palm does make better accesories. :(

jmg_NX21

01-09-2004, 12:40 AM

I can't say.

I am in NO hurry to upgrade from my NX70. I LUV IT.
ANd with Zlauncher and Jackflash... memory? what memory issue.

BUT I can no longer recommend Clie's to those who see me use my NX. I recommend the T3. =(

BUT after reading some post over @ palmonecity... there are the little things SONY Clies have that I have enjoyed and take for granted: msimport & the audio recording. I USE the latter so often, am IMPRESSED with the quality all I need are classes, lectures recorded and its been seamless getting to work on my Mac, QT, and then burning them to CD.

I am fearful that I go to a NON-Sony PDA and the sound quality and QT compatibility or MAC compatibility will suffer.

SO i'll be waiting (OS6, BT, Wifi, GREAT battery life =/) and all the while still taking full advantage of my PDA that suits my need...

orol

01-09-2004, 04:00 AM

Originally posted by Athradon
I used to be a Sony zealot, and I think they started out with great, useful products (the S, N, and T series), but nothing in their current lineup looks compelling.

- The clamshell models are too bulky for carrying around conveniently (i.e. in suit pants), and negate the ease of use found in any Tungsten model.

come on, have you ever had UX50 in your hands? UX50 is the saime size compacted T3 is!

- The TG50 is a horribly designed product, with its unremovable non-wrap-around flip lid, awkward stylus placement, and poorly lit screen.

yet another bullshit
the flip cover is removable, and beauty of this is that you can put there half clear cover, which makes is it very usefull, you can see all your appoinmets or whatever, but it covers your display!
screen is also great, well on TG50 you barely need stylus anymore becayse you can almost everything control with keyboard
simply put dont talk bullshits here

actually eventhough I have UX50 now, I'd go back to TG50 if it had dual wireless in a moment
to me is TG50 one of the best designed units. it's small sleek and light and has keyboard!

- And the UX...interesting but extremely overpriced. It has less functional memory than Palm's high-end units (64MB/52MB usable vs. 104MB/45MB usable...16MB plus 29MB 'internal media'). It doesn't even have 2X the memory of the $199 T|E. 8MHz-123MHz is not a selling feature, it's a hinderance. $650 buys a full WindowsXP laptop...it was one thing when the most high-end Palm was $400, but $650 (originally $700) is insane.

it has got actually the same amount of memeory T3 has
you are forgetting the 29MB of internal media. I have there over 20MB programs and I have 12MB ram left. no problem with that
and regarding price, if you don't know where to go for a good deal your fault. I've bought UX50 (brand new) and 256MB MS for 369 euros. and the CPU is speed is just fine. I havent any problems with the power. I can play smoothly _native_ mpeg4 videos @ 30fps, what is the thing T3 still cannot,
not to mention UX50 far better designed with better software

Also, Palm's pricing has been much more competitive than Sony's. And if Palm releases the rumored T|E2, I'll never consider another Clie again...

well to each his own. from palmOne products only the treo600 appeals me. I'd buy it in the moment if it had hires screen.

ziggy

01-09-2004, 06:01 AM

Difference in price made me switching. I was doubting between TJ35 and TE. Both PDA are quite similar in specs (but both have their pros and cons) but the price difference in the UK was about £40 (almost $70). Meanwhile the price of TJ35 has come down a bit (perhaps due to poor sales figures?).

ziggy

01-09-2004, 06:02 AM

That was me above

dduran@linux

01-09-2004, 07:37 AM

ClieKun: PalmOne handhelds are MUCH cheaper than Clie!!!
T3 - $350

tonyreynolds

01-09-2004, 09:54 AM

I agree with Oral regarding the TG50: my wife loves hers... If Oral paid 369 euros for his UX50 he got a DEAL, especially considering the US$ and the euro are on par with each other.

I use the NZ90 and I LOVE it!

I use the camera ALL THE TIME. I have 4 batteries and can replace the battery easily if the power gets low. There is NO PlamOne product with a swap-able battery.

I like the ability to use a keyboard if the need arises, though I mostly use the NZ in tablet mode. (I'm VERY fast with Grafitti...)

I have all the apps that I need loaded on MS via ZLauncher and still have 4MB or RAM left with no real need for more, though of course it would be nice. I have 4 1/2 hours of audio loaded on a 256MB CF card. The NZ plays GREAT audio. Most PalmOnes don't.

Dual slots are very important to me. One of these days I'll have a BT phone and I'll actually be able to use the T-Mobile unlimited Internet I've been paying for for the last 4 months.

I don't like having to slide the T's open to reveal the HR screen, YMMV... Grafitti Anywhere solved my NZ90 screen sensitivity issue.

I too am glad that there is competition in the Palm PDA market, and that Palm has MS Pocket PC breathing down their necks. More competition is ALWAYS better for the consumer.

All this said, Sony's customer service and lack of support for third party developers SUCKS. I'm not STUCK in the Sony camp. I'll buy whatever meets my needs: SONY ARE YOU LISTENING????

Tony

iboar

01-09-2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by orol

come on, have you ever had UX50 in your hands? UX50 is the saime size compacted T3 is!

The case size may be the same as the T3, but the T3 as well as the NR/NX/NZ all have significantly larger LCD screens. The UX screen is but 2/3 the physical size of the other HiRes+ models. And look at all that extra space around its screen--looks like the first notebook PCs that had at least 2" of space around the circumference of the screen. What a waste! If Sony will make the next version with a bigger HiRes+ screen (like on the NX80) and add portrait viewing capability, and make it where the keypad folds all the way around to the back to create a tablet configuration (if it doesn't already), then I suspect more people will buy it.

Talula

01-09-2004, 06:20 PM

I hate thumbboards. I wanted HiRes plus, welcome back to Palm! Life is sweet now. I have EVERYTHING I've ever wanted in a PDA. I wish the same for everyone else and your chosen handheld.

lostether

01-09-2004, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by iboar

and make it where the keypad folds all the way around to the back to create a tablet configuration (if it doesn't already)

You are just babbling, you obviously know virtually NOTHING about the UX50, so quit wasting everyones time.

iboar

01-09-2004, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by lostether

You are just babbling, you obviously know virtually NOTHING about the UX50, so quit wasting everyones time.

I'm merely stating my opinion of what I would like to see in a new Clie. If you disagree fine. That's what makes the world go 'round! But Personal jabs aren't necessary. Instead of attacking me, why don't you tell us why you like the UX so much?

BMEngineer

01-09-2004, 10:06 PM

I agree with iboar....he is just stating wat he wants to see in the next CLIe, not making a description of the current UX in the market now.

lostether

01-09-2004, 11:29 PM

When you attempt to compare the T3 to another device, it might be a good idea to have SOME experience with that other device. If this doesn't make sense to anyone, then I apologize.

NTHeudner

01-14-2004, 06:00 PM

I think the point was that the UX50 does indeed have a tablet mode and that not knowing something that obvious about the UX50 makes other opinions one might have on the subject less credible.

I can comment on some confusing posts regarding the size of the devices according to their espective manufacturers. FYI i'm surprised since I've held a T3 in my hand. Had no idea it was so skinny.

T3: 4.3x3x0.66 = 8.514 cubic inches
UX50: 4.125x3.5x0.7185 = 10.37 cubic inches

As for me, I buy sony because of the looks, and multimedia. As far as the multimedia is concerned, most reviers agree that the Microphones and playback on sony devices are better. this is just heresay since i've not done the comparison myself, but i have read a lot of reviews of the new corp of handhelds. As far as the looks, I think the T3 is ugly which is the same problem as most PPCs. I would own an e805 or hp5555 right now if they didn't look like such beasts.

I'll be happy with my UX50 until something better looking comes out.

PDA gadgetfreak

01-14-2004, 08:18 PM

I switched to a Palm T3 from Sony because it fit my needs. Yes I hated having to buy another type of memory card and additional charging cables.

I'm more loyal to Palm OS than any particular brand of PDA. I can't see myself buying any PPC but I will continue to buy the Palm OS PDA that fits my needs at the time.

PalmOne is more innovative now largely due to the Sony and PPC pushing out new ideas. Competition is wonderful! It gives us all better products and pricing in the long run.