1src Forums - SL10 owners... Just out of interest...

mechanix

02-15-2003, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by Unregistered
If Sony dropped the price of the SL10 to $100, then I gaurantee you it would sell like hotcakes. It blows the Zire away, and is worth the $30 price difference.

Hi. I'm in the process of making choice what to buy - sl10 or sj20. The initial plan was to get an m125. I don't actually care for the platform. What I need from the device is the screen must be readable - I'm going to mostly read books and use dictionaries. I also want to have 32-64Mb ext storage and problem free syncing with my PIV.

If you could advise me on any of these items? Warn me of some hidden flaws? I heard a lot about memstick being no match to SD cards used on Palms. That so?

Read quite a few reviews on both Sony and Palm, still can't make a choice - the reviews are mostly ads, not first hand experience.

Thanks for answering

Talula

02-15-2003, 08:05 AM

I have an SJ20 and my understanding is that the SJ20 has a screen that is far easier to read than the SL10. The SL10 has a darker screen with a greenish background. The SJ20 has a true black and white screen that is very nice on the eyes.

I once owned a m125 and that had a screen with a dark greenish background. I hated it! I could not read that screen to save my own life. I adore the screen on the SJ20. Far superior. Best screen in a non color device in my opinion.
Talula

Unregistered

02-15-2003, 08:27 AM

I have a Clie SL10 for exactly that reason (e-books being my killer app). I'd have chosen the Zire if it had hi-res and an expansion slot.

Memory can get a little tight at 8Mb, if you have different books/readers. I don't think the Memory Stick is my ideal expansion style, but I'd say the Zire would be unusable as an e-book reader: no room for reference works, poor-quality screen-resolution, no expansion. You shouldn't have much trouble picking up a 32Mb or 64Mb Memory Stick.

Memory Stick is too expensive, and bids fair to be left out on a limb as only Sony kit supports it, although I don't think shops will stop selling it soon. On the other hand, it's reasonably robust (like Compact Flash) and small (unlike Compact Flash). If SD has the same robustness as other forms of memory expansion (MS and CF tend to come with a 5-year warranty) it'd be well worth having. Since only the expensive Tungsten models of Palm have the hi-res screen I decided not to consider SD for e-book reading.

The SL10 is very much an earlier-generation Palm at heart: AAA batteries and a "greenish" grey-scale screen with weak green backlight. However, this means it isn't a high-drain device like the more "multimedia" handhelds with the bright white screens.

The screen's good enough to read comfortably for some time in a good light, although the backlight is only useful in darkness.

I'd recommend the excellent DeepReader for reading novels comfortably, and perhaps TomeRaider for reading large documents, like 1Mb dictionaries.

Hope this is some help

Woofb

rcxAsh

02-15-2003, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by Unregistered
However, this means it isn't a high-drain device like the more "multimedia" handhelds with the bright white screens.

Just a comment, the battery life of the SJ-20 is great. I've never had it go down below 90%. I charge it everyday when I'm at home and not using it, but I'm sure it could go without a week of charging if needed. The white backlight is a great thing! I find it valuable for reading text.

Jake K

02-15-2003, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered
Memory Stick is too expensive

Actually, a 128 mb Memory Stick is about $15 cheaper then a 128 mb Compact Flash card.

JenixSJ30

02-15-2003, 03:07 PM

If your about to get a pda i have one tip. Bite the bullet and get the more exspensive one with the most dohickeys. Get a color screen no matter what. Sony is always the highest quality. Get the SJ30. I got it and I am at half battery power right now. I charged it last a week ago.

Unregistered

02-15-2003, 07:23 PM

Hello,

This is my first post so please forgive any errors in protocol.

I own a Sony SL10. I purchased it because the price was right. I purchased an open box unit at Best Buy for $87.00 in late Nov 02.

I really enjoy using the Sony. I keep several, 10 to 15 Excel Sheets and 2 or 3 Word doc, loaded on the Sony at all times. This saves me much time over starting up my laptop to view these documents. This is possible because Sony bundled the SL10 with a lite version of Documents to Go. I also have Palm Planetarium and several other utilities loaded too. The Docs to go and the Palm Planetarium work great. They load fast and I have never had any problems. I have even saved power point files as JPEGS and viewed them on the SL10 using the picturelite softeware that came with the unit.

To keep E-books, large programs, and to use the SL10 as a removeable drive for my laptop I purchased a Lexar 128MB memory stick. The mem strick total cost was $35.00 after rebates from Buy.com. I have not been able to get all PalmOS programs to execute from the memstick yet. I have tried a program called MSmount but I have not been successful yet. The removeable drive feature of the SL10 works great using the free, bundled, software included by Sony.

I use recharge NiMH batteries. Given my daily use the batteries last a min of 4 days and with less use they last more than 5days. To adjust the battery staus meter for NiMH battery use I use a program called BATMON which is freware written by Ikeda Shigeru. This program works very, very , well. The voltage displayed is very accurate and I have confirmed this by measuring battery voltage with a DVM.

If I had to replace the SL10 and could not find another "open Box Deal", I would buy the SJ20. I like the the display a little better and the rechargeable battery feature is nice too. After all, when you take the SL10 and add the rechargables and the external charger you end up at the SJ20 price but you do not get the display.

Hope this helps.

Tony

acoustyx86

02-16-2003, 01:05 PM

i have to edit my earlier reply, i'm not really an sl-10 owner anymore, i went out and bought myself a nice new t665c :)

vdalian

02-17-2003, 06:10 AM

talking about the memory stick

Originally posted by Unregistered
Memory Stick is too expensive

I just bought 3 new 128 mb memory sticks @ costco for 40 bucks a piece-they all came with 5 year warrenties.

palmgeek

02-17-2003, 12:59 PM

I'm a former SL10 owner. Okay, so I only owned it ONE day...

I bought it because my Palm IIIxe died. It was supposed to be a replacement/upgrade. It turned out that I thought the SL10 display was WORSE than my IIIxe to read. Dull green, and skinny fonts, with a horrid backlight... I couldn’t read it in any light, with or without the backlight. It was really bad! I took it back to Best Buy, and picked up an open-box SJ20 for the same price I paid for the SL10 ($130).

I absolutely LOVE the display on the SJ20!!! It is the best I have ever seen (I better qualify that “for reading text and spreadsheets” before some Game Boy geek says the display is “slow when playing games”!). I have dozens of BIG text files on my device. I have even more stored on the memory stick. I have 3 versions of the Bible installed, and a bunch of spreadsheets. In short – I do a LOT of reading on my device. The paper-white backlight is unbeatable! It’s great on the eyes, in any light. If you want to use your CLIE for reading, I would highly suggest doing whatever it takes to avoid the SL10, and get the SJ20.

BTW, I did not like the idea that I was stuck with a rechargeable battery with the SJ20. I was afraid that it would run out, and I wouldn’t be able to just slap in a fresh set, like I was used to doing with my IIIxe. After using the SJ20 a couple months, I have yet to run it below 3.8 volts, even after 4 or 5 days without charging. The battery life on the SJ20 is quite impressive.

T1000X

02-17-2003, 03:38 PM

Here is an interesting thought. With Sony ousting the SJ20 in favor of the SJ22 with a color screen, do you think they would keep the SJ20 and bump it down to the $130 price? If they did, I could see the sales for it picking up.

handheldhostage

02-18-2003, 03:42 AM

I've had my SL-10 since Christmas and totally dig it. I'm only using it for about 2% of what it's capable of, I'm sure. I love the calendar and the addresses. My LAN guy is promising me he'll install my software at work so I can hot synch with Outlook on my work computer.

Display does take a little getting used to and the backlight sure does drain the battery. But this is my first PDA and I would say overall I'm pretty satisfied so far.

Unregistered

02-18-2003, 09:09 AM

I hae an SL10 and LOVE it!! I was a former m505 user, and gave it up after being laid off. COmpared to that, this is a GEM! However, I think it is being discontinued because it is not rechargeable. Well, I happen to like using AAAs...more convenient, great battery life -- about a week with full-time ebook reading for hours!! Frankly, I find the screen just fine to read. I added new fonts for Hi-Res, and they work perfectly. Ihad and SJ20 for about two days. hated the double wire contraption for charging, found it took HOURS to recharge, and battery life was just passable for an avid ebook reader. So I recommend SIMPLICITY, and get yourself an SL10 before they disappear!

bhutten

02-18-2003, 09:26 AM

Here's another happy SL10 user. It's the best PDA I have had till now! Great screen resolution. Best price for what you get. Updating the fonts is a must, but then the screen is nice and readable. I'm also a fan of AAA batteries, I like the freedom of not be doomed to recharge the device.

--
Berthold Hutten

Book junkie

02-20-2003, 06:26 PM

I use an SL-10. My starter pda was a palm Vllx. I originally got it to sync to avantgo. Then I found all sorts of other things I could do with it. Then when I started doing ebooks I was hooked. But the memory was too small.

I do not have the budget for a higher end pda and after looking around I found the SL-10 with a memory stick slot. For me the other advantage was the AAA batteries. I have the kind of luck that anything I use with batteries runs down at the worst possible moment. So I it uses replaceable batteries I can just carry a spare.

At first I found the screen hard to read. Then I fund the font hacks. I am very pleased with the little gadget now. And I have 28 ebooks on my memory stick.

palmgeek

02-21-2003, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Unregistered
I hae an SL10 and LOVE it!! Ihad and SJ20 for about two days. hated the double wire contraption for charging, found it took HOURS to recharge, and battery life was just passable for an avid ebook reader.

I'm just wondering how you can make the statement about the SJ20 battery life, when you only had the device two days. 

In my experience, I was getting 4 hours of usage out of my Palm IIIxe on NiMH batteries.  I could get 8-10 hours from Alkalines, but who wants to throw money away at that rate?  (That's something like $.12 an hour!!!)  I have read of SJ20 users getting 10 hours out of their

In all fairness, I was originally dead-set against buying a PDA with an internal rechargeable battery.  I saw them as a Con, rather than a Pro.  However, I've had my SJ20 for 2 months now, and have changed my view about built-in rechargeables.  I put my unit on charge when I got it home from the store, and haven't charged it since.  No, the battery hasn't lasted that long, but I did purchase a $6 USB sync/charge cable shortly after I bought my SJ20.  There's no power cord, and no transformer to plug in.  It looks and works like a normal hotsync cable, except that it charges the unit as well.  The few minutes a day I have my CLIE hooked to the sync cable has kept the battery consistantly above 50% for 2 months straight.  I bought a car charger, as insurance, but haven't had to use it yet.

Lastly, I'd like to mention that as an avid (Palm) book reader myself, I can honestly say that the unregistered poster (see above quote) must have not known how to turn on the backlight on the SJ20 that he/she had for only 2 days.  No book reader would ever willingly go back to a dull green screen after seeing the PAPER WHITE backlight of the SJ20. 

 

 

wickedhousepart

02-27-2003, 09:19 PM

I'm perfectly happy with my SL10/U.

I actually chose NOT to get color because of the batterly life issue. AAA batteries are easier to get when you're on the road than four or five hours near a wall outlet if you're running low.

Plus I bought at Radio Shack four AAA NiMH rechargables and a charger for $40 less than the difference in price for the next higher model.

SL10/U is obsolete, by techie standards. But then again, so is a Commodore 64 and I could find a million uses for one if I still had my old one.

My peers at work have various versions of the Palm hardware. Sony is coming out with a 1Gb memory stick April 2003. I laugh an evil one when I tell them the size of MS that I will own during the lifetime of their device and it makes them cry. HARHARHAR..

:D

T1000X

02-27-2003, 09:34 PM

Yeah, I tried to get a SL10 to use as backup, but BB was sold out. I ended up settling on an open box SJ20. Love the screen.

palmgeek

02-28-2003, 07:08 AM

Ditto... The screen is a winner!!!

Talula

03-01-2003, 09:22 AM

My peers at work have various versions of the Palm hardware. Sony is coming out with a 1Gb memory stick April 2003. I laugh an evil one when I tell them the size of MS that I will own during the lifetime of their device and it makes them cry. HARHARHAR..

It is my understanding that these larger memory sticks will not work with the older devices, including the SL10, SJ20, Tseries, etc. You'll have to get the ones that require you to flip switch or something access all of the memory on the stick. Personally, if I have to take the memory stick out to access all of the memory, I'd just assume change memory sticks all together. I guess it all depends on how much they costs.

Unregistered

03-04-2003, 10:00 AM

I've been using my SL10 for about 3 months now. Yes, the screen is a little dark, but as long as you're not trying to use it in poor lighting conditions, it's fine. And there's always the backlight.
I have a 64mb Memory Stick that cost less than an equivalent CF card, and the SL10 is pretty nippy. The Hi-Res screen is a massive bonus. It's a little workhorse, organising my life and has no problems with anything I throw at it. I'd recommend one - but it depends on what you're looking for.

Book Junkie

03-13-2003, 12:20 AM

I am still happy with my SL-10. I do a lot of reading and am getting 2 weeks out of a set of batteries. And I have discovered it is possible to even read in the dark by using the backlight.

Man if I could have had one of those when I was a kid I would not have spent so many nights huddled under the covers with a flashlight and a book.

I cannot say how much I now prefer to read using the pda than trying to handle a print book.

legohead

04-10-2003, 02:12 AM

i've got an SL10 and am relatively happy with it. I do wish it came with a hard cover (that stays closed) though ... and a keyboard, plus screen protector, and NIMH charger...

The reason i went with an AAA battery model is because i am hesitant about built-in batts. Unlike others, my reason is not that i don't believe in the built-in batts' ability to hold a charge. My problem is that I don't see why you would pay extra money for a "more advanced" rechargeable model that is gonna konk out in two or three years.

I prefer to look at the LONG-TERM . NIMH batteries can be replaced and last almost as long as the built-in lithium batteries of the more expensive models. So i'd rather buy a cheaper model that'll last me a lifetime (with good care) than an expensive one that'll last a few years at best. Replacing those built-in batteries costs nearly $100- totally not worth it.

I'd like to hear what others think. 'cuz for now, i feel i made a good choice.

rcxAsh

04-10-2003, 06:43 AM

But in the long term, you may end up spending nearly $100 on AAA batteries (if you're using regular alkalines or nickle cadium) over a period of time that it would take a Li-Ion battery to die. Also, I think that using built in Li-Ions allows the model to be thinner.

Unregistered

04-10-2003, 08:57 AM

Yes, using customized Li-Ion will allow a thinner profile. However, to my knowledge, that's not the case in SL and SJ series, they share the same chassis.

Using alkaline is not an economical and environmental-friendly idea, AAA NiMH batteries are quite mature and cheap indeed.

palmgeek

04-10-2003, 09:31 AM

Ah, but Alkalines last MUCH longer than NiMH batteries. Back when I had my Palm IIIxe, I was getting 4 hours of run time on NiMH's, and over 10 hours on Alkaline. For normal use, I would swap between 2 sets of NiMH - 1 in the wall charging, and one in my unit. For long trips away, however, I'd pop in a fresh set of Alkalines, and carry a spare set as well. That worked much better than having to carry a charger with me.

Lil Viper

04-10-2003, 04:58 PM

I've been using my SL-10 for about 3 1/2 weeks now...I love it! I bought it because it was the cheapest one available, but even still, it's going to be a few years before this thing runs out of usefulness.

legohead

04-10-2003, 05:37 PM

Ah, but Alkalines last MUCH longer than NiMH batteries. Back when I had my Palm IIIxe, I was getting 4 hours of run time on NiMH's, and over 10 hours on Alkaline.

Alkalines are way too expensive to use in a PDA. Maybe you'll get 10 hours, but after that it's worthless. NIMH you can charge again. I suppose alkalines could be a useful backup, but not the main source.

But in the long term, you may end up spending nearly $100 on AAA batteries (if you're using regular alkalines or nickle cadium) over a period of time that it would take a Li-Ion battery to die. Also, I think that using built in Li-Ions allows the model to be thinner.

From what I've read, NIMH should last about a year total. I suppose that depends on your usage though. Does anybody have experience with that? Can someone say how long (in total) a set of NIMH AAA batteries will last along with your usage level please? I bought 8 NIMH AAA batts on ebay for $12. If a set lasts about a year, the $12 should last about 4 years- the amount of time a built-in Li-Ion will last. $12 vs. new PDA- I go with the $12... I'm pretty satisfied with the size of my SL10.

palmgeek

04-11-2003, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by legohead

Alkalines are way too expensive to use in a PDA. Maybe you'll get 10 hours, but after that it's worthless. NIMH you can charge again. I suppose alkalines could be a useful backup, but not the main source.

Legohead; you failed to read my entire post.  I only used Alkalines on long trips away from home.  The rest of the time I swapped between 2 sets of HiMH.

Originally posted by legohead
From what I've read, NIMH should last about a year total. I suppose that depends on your usage though. Does anybody have experience with that? Can someone say how long (in total) a set of NIMH AAA batteries will last along with your usage level please? I bought 8 NIMH AAA batts on ebay for $12. If a set lasts about a year, the $12 should last about 4 years- the amount of time a built-in Li-Ion will last. $12 vs. new PDA- I go with the $12... I'm pretty satisfied with the size of my SL10.

First of all, battery life depends heavily on battery capacity.  The lower the capacity, the shorter the run time, and visa-versa.  I have 700maH units.  Having said that, I was averaging 4 hours of run time with my NiMH batteries.  That included about a half to one hour of backlight time also.  I had 2 pairs (4 total) and I used them in a Palm Pro, then in a Palm IIIxe over the past 3 years.  They're still being used in an MP3 player.  Be sure to keep them together in pairs.  Mark them so they don't get mixed up.  I put a red dot on one pair with a paint marker.  Use and charge them in matched pairs - don't separate the pairs and/or mix the batteries up.  You'll get better life if you keep them together.  Mine are still going strong after 3 years.  And, like I said, I was getting 4 hours per charge.  That means I was changing batteries about 2x a week.  I just kept one pair plugged in (charging) all the time.

As for my SJ20 - I'm surprised by the battery life on it.  I have yet to intentionally charge it (after 4 months of ownership).  The time I have it hooked up to hotsync has been enough to keep the battery constantly above 80%!  I guess I won't need that car charger I bought for it...

 

 

 

Unregistered

04-11-2003, 09:08 AM

That's right, if you use NiMH AAA, be sure to pair them, that would prolong their life.

Winky

04-11-2003, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by mechanix

Hi. I'm in the process of making choice what to buy - sl10 or sj20. The initial plan was to get an m125. I don't actually care for the platform. What I need from the device is the screen must be readable - I'm going to mostly read books and use dictionaries. I also want to have 32-64Mb ext storage and problem free syncing with my PIV.

If you could advise me on any of these items? Warn me of some hidden flaws? I heard a lot about memstick being no match to SD cards used on Palms. That so?

Read quite a few reviews on both Sony and Palm, still can't make a choice - the reviews are mostly ads, not first hand experience.

Thanks for answering

I suggest you buy SJ20 over SL10.(Just kick out m125! The screen resolution is only 160 X 160 while Sony all model have 320 X 320)

Because:

1. SJ20 has a bright paper-white backlit while SL10 has only yellowish weak backlit. The brightness of SJ20 is even a little bit brighter than SJ30 etc color model.
2. SJ20 has Lithium rechargeable battery which has greater capacity and more convenient.
3. 16MB RAM (SJ20) is also better than 8MB (SL10). Don't relie on external memory stick because it can store "non-edit" database and program only. Also, the speed of loading database/program will be significant slower than those stored in RAM

Unregistered

04-11-2003, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by Unregistered
I hae an SL10 and LOVE it!! I was a former m505 user, and gave it up after being laid off. COmpared to that, this is a GEM! However, I think it is being discontinued because it is not rechargeable. Well, I happen to like using AAAs...more convenient, great battery life -- about a week with full-time ebook reading for hours!! Frankly, I find the screen just fine to read. I added new fonts for Hi-Res, and they work perfectly. Ihad and SJ20 for about two days. hated the double wire contraption for charging, found it took HOURS to recharge, and battery life was just passable for an avid ebook reader. So I recommend SIMPLICITY, and get yourself an SL10 before they disappear!

I don't really agree on it.
SJ20 could have much longer battery life performance if u switch off the backlit (of course, if the environment is bright enough). If you swich on the backlit of SL10. It also drains battery quite fast.

Hey guys, here you can purchase emergency charger in Hongkong!

http://shop.brando.com.hk/cliet9vcharger.php

palmgeek

04-11-2003, 11:52 AM

Two days isn't long enough to test an SJ20's battery life. All LiIon batteries need about three charge cycles to bring the battery up to full capacity.

My SJ20 took under 4 hours to fully charge the first time. Since then, a few minutes on the hotsync cable ($6 on eBay) brings it back up to full charge. Hey, I'm syncing it anyway - might as well be charging at the same time.

For the record - I was very skeptical of getting stuck with a rechargeable battery unit. I originally bought the SL10 for that very reason. However, I hated the screen so much (worse than my IIIxe, in my opinion) that I returned it for an SJ20. Four months later, I don't regret that trade one bit.

Winky

04-11-2003, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by palmgeek
Two days isn't long enough to test an SJ20's battery life. All LiIon batteries need about three charge cycles to bring the battery up to full capacity.

My SJ20 took under 4 hours to fully charge the first time. Since then, a few minutes on the hotsync cable ($6 on eBay) brings it back up to full charge. Hey, I'm syncing it anyway - might as well be charging at the same time.

For the record - I was very skeptical of getting stuck with a rechargeable battery unit. I originally bought the SL10 for that very reason. However, I hated the screen so much (worse than my IIIxe, in my opinion) that I returned it for an SJ20. Four months later, I don't regret that trade one bit.

I agree totally.

winstonw

04-14-2003, 03:47 AM

Hello all,

I've owned an SJ20 for half a year, and now I have an SL10 with an NR70V (from my dad). Here are my comments on the SL10/SJ20 concerning battery life:

1. SJ20 has a Li-ion battery, which does last for a very long time. On a full charge, you can safely bring it with you on short trips (<4 days).

2. SL10 uses AAA batteries and therefore is suited for frequent travellers and especially those who love the outdoors. I would NOT want to bring an SL10 along for camping trips.

3. The main reason Sony fitted the Li-ion battery on the SJ20 and not SL10 is because the white backlight on the SJ20 MUST be supported by a high capacity Li-ion battery, since the SJ20 was intended for use with the backlight on most of the time. Proof? Reset the machine and the backlight will come on by itself. And it'll also remember the state of the backlight when you last turned the machine off. It's been designed to behave like color handhelds, which are dependent on backlighting.

4. With the above in mind, it is undeniable that the SJ20 will last much longer than SL10, provided that the backlight for both units are turned off.

The only advantage the SL10 has over the SJ20 is the AAA batteries. This equates to a slightly lighter machine, and you also will be less dependent on battery charger sources. Since I have an NR70V, which is definitely sufficient for "urban" people like me, the SL10 is still a reliable backup and travel buddy for when I go on long trips. I have bought the SL10 even though I use my NR70V more, since no one makes AAA-powered handhelds anymore and this little machine will soon come in useful, especially when I start going out of town during the summer.