1src Forums - NX80 or T3?

n0m0n

11-11-2003, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by mr_gkyc
Hi,

If I were in a position to pick between the T3 and the Nx80, the T3 has one huge advantage over the Nx80: upgrade. PalmOne has a history of supporting their hardware and providing upgrades. My previous PDA was the Palm Vx and that shipped with PalmOS 3.1. I got a free upgrade to 3.5 and had an option to go 4.0. You'll never get that from Sony.

You can see this even today. Look how fast it took PalmOne to get a patch for the T3's SD problem. And then an update to that when some glitches came up. How many guesses to how timely Sony would've been?

George

BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
This is the key...
PalmOne has just recently proven their commitment to address OS issues, like they just did with the SD card issue.
And they did create a patch that corrected ALL the card issue.
Lets see did Sony create a CF card patch, or driver before or after a private programer.
Hmmmmmmmmmm...
A private programer after so so many people offered to spot $$$ in a contest begging someone to create a driver for the CF slot...
Sid Sony listen???
Hell NO...

n0m0n

11-11-2003, 07:59 PM

So now for my opinion...
I own both a NX80v, and a T3...
The key to your question is what do you want!
Do you want a toy that looks cool, is slower, has camera, a remote, place for a ear phone, (T3 does to) the capability to spin the screen around from a star trek communicator looking thing to a tablet, (the hinge has been known to wear)??
Or do you want a tool that is smaller, lighter, sleeker, and the slider is very professional looking, with the capability to go landscape, or portrait mode at the drop of a dime.
Oh and memory before the expense of a card!!! 52 MB
There are a few neat tricks that one does not hear about when it comes to the OS5.2.1 too...
The virtual graffiti area has a few twists also
Oh, and did Sony offer a up grade to their OS5's yet???
They are OS5.2.1's aren't they???
Sony is a very large we don't care company.
If you ever needed a OS patch you will be able to buy one in the form of a new Clie...
In other words they don't offer OS fix's.
And they could because there is enough room in their ROM's.
From what I have been told "repeatedly, Sony is not a programer friendly company either...
They make it very hard for programmers to try to create new/ update app's for the Sony line.
Bradyer still can't figure out how to get JackSprat to work on a NX80v, in fact they have stopped trying...
WHY???
Well in their words Sony doesn't want to share in the education of the Clie...
So the Palms can get all these really cool nice apps when the Clie can't...
Midi...
Well Sony won't share in the audio format either so (ding! ding!) no apps for them either.
Hey seriously now.
I like the NX80v, its a nice toy all the parts /pieces to play that anyone could ever want.
But I reed someone said the clamshell was great protection...
NOT!!! it cracks under minimal pressure.
I had a car (small car) door bump me in the arm last winter.
In the arm mind you, and my NX70v was in my coat pocket (thick leather winter coat)...
The clamshell where the camera lens is, cracked into pieces.
As for my arm where the door hit the hardest , not a mark...
Well the NX80v screen in my opinion is a bit more vibrant then the T3.
The battery life is better with the NX80v but I have the backlight on all the time (if its needed or not), and the built-in BlueTooth always actively searching.
So the T3 does consume a bit more battery then the NX.
Other then that I also like the fact that Sony is using Palms OS so Sony is dependent on Palm.
Hey i like that go with the guy who everyone else wants to emulate after.
For me Sony has there hand into to many different toys.
At this time I need a tool for business some play and whatever my PDA needs are.
If I need a camera I will use a real digital camera not a low low end one.
So that is my opinion.
If you have any questions please ask away I will ply with my PDA's to get you an answer if I dont know it.

n0m0n

11-11-2003, 08:01 PM

Oh did I forget to say that for the $$$, or about 100.00 LESS you get more with a T3???
Shop around the T3's are around $350.00 in places.
Did I say T3's are cheaper!!!

hherbzilla

11-11-2003, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by n0m0n
...I like the NX80v, its a nice toy... So the NX80 is just a toy?

This should get interesting!

n0m0n

11-11-2003, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by hherbzilla
So the NX80 is just a toy?

This should get interesting!

Yeah I thought I would add a little spice to the conversation.
I am braising myself for incoming.

babsk

11-11-2003, 10:28 PM

Actually, I think Palm is just a smaller "we don't care" company.
I agree, Sony is a huge company, but Palm execs aren't exactly being paid peanuts. I don't think any of these companies truly give a rip about the consumer. The $$$$ is the bottom line.
(across the board with any type of product for that matter)

n0m0n

11-11-2003, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by babsk
Actually, I think Palm is just a smaller "we don't care" company.
I agree, Sony is a huge company, but Palm execs aren't exactly being paid peanuts. I don't think any of these companies truly give a rip about the consumer. The $$$$ is the bottom line.
(across the board with any type of product for that matter)

There is truth to what you have said but if you are going to spend the $$ I would rather a company that specializes in the product, and not a company that sells them like there a hobby product.
They have to go through Palm to deliver there product.
OS that is.
Palm will move as fixing something when Sony doesn't really need to.
If there PDA fails well it fails.
The just have to sell a few more:
Tv's, Camcorders, Stereo's, Cassette player's, Walkman's, Midi players, Computers, Cd players, Laptop's, Speakers, car stereo's, VCR's, TV converters, and if all else fails CD's Cassettes, Records...
No, No, I dont think they sell records anymore.
Please join in if I forgot anything that Sony sells.
So Palm specializes in PDA's, and Sony the world.

ricleo

11-12-2003, 12:43 AM

looks like someone is on a roll to increase post count :p

babsk

11-12-2003, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by n0m0n

There is truth to what you have said but if you are going to spend the $$ I would rather a company that specializes in the product, and not a company that sells them like there a hobby product.
So Palm specializes in PDA's, and Sony the world.

Agreed-Sony is huge and in theory yes, I prefer whoever truly specializes in things. But because of that, I expect better from Palm, but don't feel any better toward them. In the end, their execs are still rolling in the dough, more in a year than most people make in a lifetime. Their priority of publicity was what-the NASDAQ numbers. Customer care should be ahead of that. Well- anyway, I think you know what I'm saying.
You did make your points well-Sony is huger than huge!
Most of own products by big companies like that though, like big name computers such as Toshiba, etc. Kind of hard to get around it totally, unless you live bare bones. But anyway-
have a good one. Enjoy both your PDAs.:)

n0m0n

11-12-2003, 01:18 AM

Well I cant argue with the executive making so much money but that is in any business.
BUT Palm does seem to show a bit more compassion towards addressing their customer.
Now I am not saying that they are the ideal company but we are comparing Sony to Palm.
Palm does seem to address the problems where Sony well do the problems even make it back to those in Japan who have to address them at a engineering level?
All I know is that when a Clie fix is needed it usually shows up in the next model release (normally its every 6 months).
But twice Palm addressed issues form the latest SD card problem to the electro static discharge issues with the m5xx series cradle.
Again they are not the ideal company by far but between the 2 Palms actions are what I see not words or the lack there of.

mr_gkyc

11-12-2003, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by n0m0n
So now for my opinion...
I own both a NX80v, and a T3...
The key to your question is what do you want!
Do you want a toy that looks cool, is slower, has camera, a remote, place for a ear phone, (T3 does to) the capability to spin the screen around from a star trek communicator looking thing to a tablet, (the hinge has been known to wear)??
Or do you want a tool that is smaller, lighter, sleeker, and the slider is very professional looking, with the capability to go landscape, or portrait mode at the drop of a dime.
Oh and memory before the expense of a card!!! 52 MB
There are a few neat tricks that one does not hear about when it comes to the OS5.2.1 too...
The virtual graffiti area has a few twists also
Oh, and did Sony offer a up grade to their OS5's yet???
They are OS5.2.1's aren't they???
Sony is a very large we don't care company.

In fairness, we do have to address the recent history of PalmOS. Sony really pushed the design of a PDA when they released the NR70 in early 2002. They followed up with the NX which were evolution of the clamshell+keyboard design. This spark of creativity really caught the overall market off-guard and, IMO, helped to push established vendor like Palm to do something. Palm's overhaul of their product line can very much be attributed to Sony in addition to the PPC camp.

If you ever needed a OS patch you will be able to buy one in the form of a new Clie...
In other words they don't offer OS fix's.

I almost want to chuckle when I read this but that really is Sony's policy in a nutshell.

And they could because there is enough room in their ROM's.

I thought about this before I bought my NX70. Based on my lurking on ClieSource, I was aware of this. But I admit that I bought the NX70 nonetheless because it is still, irrespective of Sony's attitude, a damn-cool machine in its own right.

From what I have been told "repeatedly, Sony is not a programer friendly company either...
They make it very hard for programmers to try to create new/ update app's for the Sony line.

We'll have to address each of these in turn...

Bradyer still can't figure out how to get JackSprat to work on a NX80v, in fact they have stopped trying...
WHY???
Well in their words Sony doesn't want to share in the education of the Clie...

I think Sony's approach is that they see a CLIE as a consumer appliance that was built by Sony for well-targeted purposes. Specifically, it is not a computer in the sense of what we enthusiast want.

So the Palms can get all these really cool nice apps when the Clie can't...
Midi...
Well Sony won't share in the audio format either so (ding! ding!) no apps for them either.
Hey seriously now.

I'll defer to previous discussions about the sound API on pre-UX CLIEs.

I like the NX80v, its a nice toy all the parts /pieces to play that anyone could ever want.

That's Sony's point. It comes complete ready to go. Where Sony and us on ClieSource differ is that Sony wants us to stop there and just use it as it was shipped while we want to do other things with it.

But I reed someone said the clamshell was great protection...
NOT!!! it cracks under minimal pressure.
I had a car (small car) door bump me in the arm last winter.
In the arm mind you, and my NX70v was in my coat pocket (thick leather winter coat)...
The clamshell where the camera lens is, cracked into pieces.
As for my arm where the door hit the hardest , not a mark...

My experience with the NX70 is quite good so far, knock on wood. I put it in my back jean pocket all the time. Aside from a couple of minor nicks, the hinge is in great shape. But it has only been 4 months...

If I need a camera I will use a real digital camera not a low low end one.
So that is my opinion.

I have a Canon PowerShot G2 but I end up using my CLIE far more often because my CLIE is with me all the time. Granted the pictures aren't print-quality but many times, it's good enough.

George

n0m0n

11-12-2003, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by mr_gkyc

George

Fair response.
I guess I can best describe my need want whatever this way:
My first computer as a Packard Bell.
I built my next 5 systems, because I wanted the freedom to do what I wanted, when I wanted, and with whatever company I wanted, to do it with.
Proprietary is not my middle name.
Now since there is no palm that can offer me total freedom from the maker at least Palm is of some support when it comes to promoting that programers create new and better apps and programs.
Palms policy has always been one of getting programers to develop new software which gets people interested in a PDA, and lets face it, it sells product.
Sony could careless.
My Nx80v is a nice little toy, but I think of my Palm's as a tool.
It is like my sports car, vs my luxury car.
Which will better serve my needs.
Hey I love my sports car, unfortunately I would not take my boss out during lunch for a spin in it.
He's to big!!!
I can say that he does not own a PDA, he believes in lugging around a big laptop.

n0m0n

11-12-2003, 12:14 PM

Thought you would all enjoy this thread!!!

http://www.palmonecity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=697

soulreaver99

11-12-2003, 12:22 PM

If you don't need the camera and keypad (most people don't), got for the T3, otherwise, both of them or excellent PDAs

n0m0n

11-12-2003, 01:05 PM

I never caught onto the keyboard thing.
In fact I prefer the T3 because if I want or need a keyboard I can always get a PPK, or full size.
For some reason I would not consider it for a NX since it has the baby keyboard that I would never use due to size (to small)
As to the camera...
If I could remember to use it more often then I would have.
But I guess that is an indications that I did not really need a PDA with a camera to start with.
At first I used it like a toy but it lost its appeal when I started to revert to needing a tool instead.
I would love a PDA (small) with the capability of watching a DVD, not a cut, and pasted copy version...
CONCEPT...
Maybe BT, or WiFi from a base unit would be nice...
Here we go again!!!!!!!!!!

anitanium

11-12-2003, 04:29 PM

get the NX80 =)
sony shares are going down!

n0m0n

11-12-2003, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by anitanium
get the NX80 =)
sony shares are going down!

What does that mean?

ricleo

11-12-2003, 08:00 PM

maybe he means it's time to support sony more or it'll collaspe and be liquidated soon? :p

Marre

11-13-2003, 11:41 AM

Um ... people keep talking about sony's lack of updates and palm's frequent updates ...

But take a look. What's the issue with T3? Frying SD cards? Performance drop of 25% after power on/off?

What about the NX? Sound API? OS5.0 to 5.2.1? Aeroplayer, Jacksprat, etc. don't work?

Truthfully, these high-end clies are just multimedia devices that happen to be running palm OS. If you look at true organizer clies, you'll start to appreciate them. There was an upgrade available for N710/760? and the TJs certainly don't fry cards.

I know we have a lot of issues with sony, but I think sometimes we need to be a little bit fairer.

Inginious

11-13-2003, 11:50 AM

Why don't you buy both?;)

ricleo

11-13-2003, 11:53 AM

Sony was the innovative one compared to Palm by incorporating it's own APIs for multi-media in palmOS, being the first with a HiRes screen, Hires+ screen, Landscape screen. All these features that PalmOne copied into their handhelds. I think if not for Sony's innovation, Palm OS will still be 160*160 8 bit colour for it's highest end model.

n0m0n

11-13-2003, 12:15 PM

Sorry Marre, old news:

What's the issue with T3? Frying SD cards? Performance drop of 25% after power on/off?
1. Sony does not offer anything after they have gotten your $$$
2. Just to make my point PAlm has already addressed the SD card issue, slow down issues and their patch well it worked.
Not a thing wrong with the T3...

It's so quiet over there as PalmOne City that I actually wish someone would find a problem and spice it up a bit...

If you look at true organizer clies, you'll start to appreciate them.
There was an upgrade available for N710/760? and the TJs certainly don't fry cards.
Lets see what else...
Toy = Sony
Tool = Palm...
Nothing misleading with that statement it has been accepted and agreed to within this forum for years now.
There are also many different versions of Palms out there for that matter other PDA companies as well.
Yes there are different animals available within the world of PDA's.
BUT it's what the companies do after the exchange of $$$ that's what I am commenting on.

Oh yeah, did I day Palm already came out and released a patch for ALL the issues you mentioned!!!
All and ones that no one ever know about.

Um ... people keep talking about sony's lack of updates and palm's frequent updates ...
Yes they do dont they...
Key word class is "they"

But take a look.

Sound API?
PROPRIETARY

Oh yeah, did I day Palm already came out and released a patch for ALL the issues you mentioned!!!

OS5.0 to 5.2.1?
PALM OS 5.2.1 on which Sony product???
Not even the UX new big $$$$$ ticket item...

Aeroplayer,
Not sure what your point is???

Jacksprat, etc. don't work?
No you are correct JackSprat does not work on NX series units...
It does on the Palms units though.
Now straight form the programers mouth not mine: Sony does not want to work with the programers.
They do not share in their products and help in the development as to apps.
Now it is my opinion that the programers are the people who make the PDA's an interesting world.

Truthfully, these high-end clies are just multimedia devices that happen to be running palm OS.
Well not exactly, I think if you want to buy a camera for a Palm you can, in addition you can listen to tunes on the T3, as well as record voice messages.
Yes it is not as geared up as a NX80v is but its also not $$$ that they are either.
The camera on a NX isn't much to write home about anyway.
So both the NX80v and the T3 are within the same family in respect to PDA's.

Oh yeah, did I day Palm already came out and released a patch for ALL the issues you mentioned!!!

I know we have a lot of issues with sony, but I think sometimes we need to be a little bit fairer.
Fair,...
How long did it take to get Sony to generate a Cf driver???
Did they listen to there customer base???
Oh that's write hundreds of people sponsored there own $$$ to try to get a contest going to get some developer to develop a CF driver that would offer the use of the what CF slot that comes with the NX series.
Again did Sony listen???
HELL NO!!!
A company called EruWare generated a driver, and ONLY then did Sony address the out cry for a CF driver to use the oem CF slot that everyone paid for as well as was promised...
And how did Sony offer the driver???
hmmmmmmmmm...
Within the next model release...
How do you spell out customer abuse???
S.O.N.Y.

Oh yeah, did I day Palm already came out and released a patch for ALL the issues you mentioned!!!
Man they jumped right on it!!!

Well I think I addressed you questions in as colorful away as I could...
Please note I am only having fun so dont take my response to be anymore the an exchange of information.
And hopefully an entertaining one at that.

n0m0n

11-13-2003, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by Inginious
Why don't you buy both?;)

Huhhhhhhhhh????!?!?!?!!!?!!????
I presently own both.

How else could I be able to compare the 2 so in-depth???

n0m0n

11-13-2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by ricleo
Sony was the innovative one compared to Palm by incorporating it's own APIs for multi-media in palmOS, being the first with a HiRes screen, Hires+ screen, Landscape screen. All these features that PalmOne copied into their handhelds. I think if not for Sony's innovation, Palm OS will still be 160*160 8 bit colour for it's highest end model.

There is much truth in what you have said about Sony pushing the PDA world long,
BUT, it's all about customer relations with me.
Sony doesn't care.
They don't hear you past the cash register.
They only want you $$$ here's the key, "every 6 months".

Its also about the lack of respect that Sony gives in reference to the programers.
In the land of Palm the programers are invited to communicate and work hand an hand with their software people.
That promotes growth and an exciting prospect for each PDA owner.
I am not just speaking on this issue to hear myself, rant and rave about Sony.
Ask the developers themselves.

Wouldn't you like to have the opportunity to run JackSprat???
I have used that program for years on Palms
BUt Sony has made it that Bradyer has given up trying to make it function.
And when asked why its the same old thing...
"Sony is unwilling to work with programers in assisting with the Clie code"
Palm is...
I look forward to what can be done not by one company but by the backbone of the developers.
Those are really my only 2 issues with Sony..
Plan and simple, they just don't care!
Or they care less the Palm.

In closing it is not personal, so don't take my opinion to heart.
I don't want to offend anyone.
Actually I want to state my opinion and entertain in the process.
That's it!!!
Please smile when you read my posts!!!
I own both a NX80v and a T3.
I haven't gone out and sold my NX so I still like the little toy.
But Sony is abusive to their customers when their customers need them to be supportive.

ricleo

11-13-2003, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by n0m0n
Sorry Marre, old news:

Lets see what else...
Toy = Sony
Tool = Palm...
Nothing misleading with that statement it has been accepted and agreed to within this forum for years now.

Maybe that's your point of view but definitely not a widely accepted view and agreed to in this forum to equate Clies to toys.

Sound API?
PROPRIETARY

proprietary sound API was for the periods of time when multimedia sound support was basically non-existent on palm OS.

OS5.0 to 5.2.1?
PALM OS 5.2.1 on which Sony product???
Not even the UX new big $$$$$ ticket item...

FYI UX and TJ series run palm OS5.2 with the standard Palm OS sound API

Aeroplayer,
Not sure what your point is???

Aeroplayer works on UX

Jacksprat, etc. don't work?
No you are correct JackSprat does not work on NX series units...
It does on the Palms units though.
Now straight form the programers mouth not mine: Sony does not want to work with the programers.
They do not share in their products and help in the development as to apps.
Now it is my opinion that the programers are the people who make the PDA's an interesting world.

If you did more search on the threads, you would have found out brayder actually came out with jacksprat that works for sony palm OS5, just that the reflashing of the ROM should you run into any errors need to be done personally by brayder. For fear of overwhelming customer support that brayder will face, it sold the rights to this software and technology to a company in hong kong, and rom can be edited for a fee if users bring their units down personally..this does not help defend the complexities of the sony APIs though, and their refusal to share.

I know we have a lot of issues with sony, but I think sometimes we need to be a little bit fairer.
Fair,...
How long did it take to get Sony to generate a Cf driver???
Did they listen to there customer base???

This I agree, but no company will want to have other memory formats cannablize into their own format's sales. Now...which palmOne device even offers you the option to have a CF slot for cheap memory. At least with the new NX, CF support is native(though multi-media options have to be patched)

Well I think I addressed you questions in as colorful away as I could...
Please note I am only having fun so dont take my response to be anymore the an exchange of information.

Colourful yes, but not objective :p
And hopefully an entertaining one at that.

ricleo

11-13-2003, 12:40 PM

Haha, sony's not abusive to customers, they're just deaf and non responsive :p

ricleo

11-13-2003, 12:50 PM

Anyway, the T3 is definitely tempting now that the frying SD cards and speed issues were solved, but the reason why i'm sticking to sony is becase my pda, phone and digital camera are all sonys, I like to be able to take a picture on my stand alone digital camera and view the photo in my Clie by simply transfering Memory sticks, or view photos using the CF card from my friend's nikon easily with the Clie. Establishing easy connection between my NX80 and T610 is real cool too.

If I wanted to do what I do now with my Clie on a T3, I'll have to change to a digital camera that utilizes SD cards, move from MS to SD technology.

n0m0n

11-13-2003, 01:01 PM

Maybe that's your point of view but definitely not a widely accepted view and agreed to in this forum to equate Clies to toys.
Actually you would be wrong with your assessment.

proprietary sound API was for the periods of time when multimedia sound support was basically non-existent on palm OS.
Yes key word. "was". Point?

FYI UX and TJ series run palm OS5.2 with the standard Palm OS sound API
Ok I think my point ws OS 5.2.1

Aeroplayer works on UX
I still dont see the point??
I did not bring this one up, I just said that the programer's for audio apps can not develop audio apps or open it up on NX's.

If you did more search on the threads, you would have found out brayder actually came out with jacksprat that works for sony palm OS5, just that the reflashing of the ROM should you run into any errors need to be done personally by brayder. For fear of overwhelming customer support that brayder will face, it sold the rights to this software and technology to a company in hong kong, and rom can be edited for a fee if users bring their units down personally..this does not help defend the complexities of the sony APIs though, and their refusal to share.
You are totally wrong there I have e-mails for Bradyer and the have stated that JAckSprat cant be updated for the NX's due to the lack of participation on Sony's end.
You must be thinking of JackFlash...
Totally a different app.
They are presently working of JackFlash as well as JackSprat and expect it to be available before the end of this year.
Fact.

This I agree, but no company will want to have other memory formats cannablize into their own format's sales. Now...which palmOne device even offers you the option to have a CF slot for cheap memory. At least with the new NX, CF support is native(though multi-media options have to be patched)
2 parts here,
1 - The fact is that Sony wants you to buy the very expensive Memory Sticks.
Cf cards are pennies compared to the PROPRIETARY MS's.
2 Palm doesn't offer what they have no intention of fully offering.
Thank you for bringing clarity and making my point clearer.
New Nx only because a 3rd party hacked their way in and offered still to this day a better driver for the CF slot.

Colourful yes, but not objective
Well objectiveness it an opinion and as I have mine you have yours.
Just dont take it personal.
I still have and at times play with my NX80v...
I mean for the $$$ I am not going ot throw it out...
Oh yeah did I say a T3 costs over $100.00 less then a NX

n0m0n

11-13-2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by ricleo
Haha, sony's not abusive to customers, they're just deaf and non responsive :p

Ok, with this response you the man, or women if your female.

n0m0n

11-13-2003, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by ricleo
Anyway, the T3 is definitely tempting now that the frying SD cards and speed issues were solved, but the reason why i'm sticking to sony is becase my pda, phone and digital camera are all sonys, I like to be able to take a picture on my stand alone digital camera and view the photo in my Clie by simply transfering Memory sticks, or view photos using the CF card from my friend's nikon easily with the Clie. Establishing easy connection between my NX80 and T610 is real cool too.

If I wanted to do what I do now with my Clie on a T3, I'll have to change to a digital camera that utilizes SD cards, move from MS to SD technology.

Very logical, now who can argue with that?

ricleo

11-13-2003, 01:08 PM

actually, I was referring to jacksprat. I do own jackflash for my nx80v, and I know the difference between the 2, and I know what I'm talking about.

The thread talking about the actual story of brayder's development of Jacksprat for sony palm OS5 is now hidden under loads of threads about jackflash/sprat and is pretty hard to find now, but what i said has been documented before :)

n0m0n

11-13-2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by ricleo
actually, I was referring to jacksprat. I do own jackflash for my nx80v, and I know the difference between the 2, and I know what I'm talking about.

The thread talking about the actual story of brayder's development of Jacksprat for sony palm OS5 is now hidden under loads of threads about jackflash/sprat and is pretty hard to find now, but what i said has been documented before :)

Not question you or what you know I just have the e-mails of correspondences on this specific issues.
They tried they cant and they have stopped trying.
They point the figure squarely on Sony the one and only!!

If you find the thread let me know I would love to go back to Brayder's support and ask them about it...

ricleo

11-13-2003, 01:24 PM

yup, i'll try and dig it up :)

Rick 098

11-13-2003, 04:56 PM

NX, BUT, if you don't own 6 MS, (like I do) get the TT3.

stronggeek

11-13-2003, 06:36 PM

stronggeek

11-13-2003, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by ricleo
yup, i'll try and dig it up :)

Dude, let the "Know it all find it". :)

If he had truly did his homework his "expert" opinion on these two machines may not have been as flawed (because of lack proof or hard evidence in refference to the toy comment).

Anyway his a little info to let you know that everyones see's the NX80 as a toy, but many as I do use for work.

For me it happens to be a work machine, that I can use as a toy.

And by the looks of this poll I am not alone.

Clies Use: Work, Play or 50/50 (http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25714&highlight=poll+AND+work+AND+play)

I actually see the T3 the say way (wish it didn't have the ugly slider though :) )

But to get back on topic I'd get whatever suits your needs.

Make a list of how you're going to use it. IE: how long you're going to use it(battery life), Do you want a keyboard, and so on and then go look them side by side and use them right ther in the store.

And then make your decision.

That's how I'd do it!

Good Luck 

 

n0m0n

11-13-2003, 08:26 PM

Ok it is hard for me to follow your train of thought the way it is written.
1. I Never stated that I know it all, "Know it all find it".
If you are speaking about the Brayder information that I spoke about.
THE FACT IS... they said, not I, assume any understanding as to what is really going on with their product called JackSprat
So let me clarify...
Brayder responded to an e-mail that I sent a while back asking about the updated version of JackSprat.
I can not copy the entire e-mail because I was testing for them...
But I will cut and paste this part which was in reference to getting JS to play friendly on a NX:

At this point, we will continue working on our
NX73 here until we can figure out why this is
happening.
We had hoped that the NX80 might behave
differently, but that is unfortunately not the case.
Thanks,
Brad.

Now JS has been abandoned due to Sony and there lack of assistance on the NX73 as well as 80v.
You can speculate all you, or for that matter anyone else wants, I think Brayder knows what is going on with their product a little bit more then you, or I...

Lets see what's next:
If he had truly did his homework his "expert" opinion on these two machines may not have been as flawed (because of lack proof or hard evidence in refference to the toy comment).
Well I already addressed that within the above...
Toy = camera, mp3's, multimedia heavy = toy's.
That is a opinion I won't slander you for yours, I expect the same respect.

I actually see the T3 the say way (wish it didn't have the ugly slider though )
Again opinion and you would be right the slider is not the most appealing visually but it is a nice little gimmick.
Kind a like the clamshell when it first came out.

But to get back on topic I'd get whatever suits your needs.
I could not agree with you more.
My opinion was never with the product itself, but with the company and the way they don't care.
They don't care to listen to the customer.
They don't care to listen or work with the programers.
The programers who are only attempting to create apps that will enhance their products...
Palm seem to have figured this out already.

Make a list of how you're going to use it. IE: how long you're going to use it(battery life), Do you want a keyboard, and so on and then go look them side by side and use them right ther in the store.
Agreed oh and the battery life is better on the NX80v...
Not a great difference but a noticeable one if you already own a NX80...

And then make your decision.
That's how I'd do it!
I could not disagree with you there.

I would still like to see the Brayder thread I have not been able to find it as of yet.
I will go back to Brayder and ask them if anything has changed since we last spoke a month and a half ago.
But I kind a doubt it.

Opinion please calm down this is just a way for people to express themselves.
Dont take anything that I write personal .
i would hope that if you disagree you my posts are at least entertaining at the least.
Enjoy your decision on which PDA you "like" best.

stronggeek

11-13-2003, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by n0m0n
Ok it is hard for me to follow your train of thought the way it is written.

Sorry, looks like you got the gist of it though.

1. I Never stated that I know it all, "Know it all find it".

1st come on! Put the smiley face back on there! :) I said it in jest, but yes, I was referring to your lack of info on the Jacksplat and pretty much informing us that we own a clie pretty for the games and not work.

Lets see what's next:
If he had truly did his homework his "expert" opinion on these two machines may not have been as flawed (because of lack proof or hard evidence in refference to the toy comment).
Well I already addressed that within the above...
Toy = camera, mp3's, multimedia heavy = toy's.
That is a opinion I won't slander you for yours, I expect the same respect.

You insulted my choice without knowing me or my use, but I chose not to take that way.

Remember though the door swings both ways, so please don't judge me so harshly, for going by your logic, if I slandered you, then you openly insulted me and thousands of others and by the way, following up with statement "please don't take it personally" may not cut it with some.

I actually see the T3 the same way (wish it didn't have the ugly slider though )
Again opinion and you would be right the slider is not the most appealing visually but it is a nice little gimmick.
Kind a like the clamshell when it first came out.

Agreed

But to get back on topic I'd get whatever suits your needs.
I could not agree with you more.
My opinion was never with the product itself, but with the company and the way they don't care.
They don't care to listen to the customer.
They don't care to listen or work with the programers.
The programers who are only attempting to create apps that will enhance their products...
Palm seem to have figured this out already.

Now I'm looking on the box my Clie came in to see where not all, but any of the above gauranteed.

I don't think it's on there nor is it implied.

Make a list of how you're going to use it. IE: how long you're going to use it(battery life), Do you want a keyboard, and so on and then go look them side by side and use them right ther in the store.
Agreed oh and the battery life is better on the NX80v...
Not a great difference but a noticeable one if you already own a NX80...

I've heard

And then make your decision.
That's how I'd do it!
I could not disagree with you there.

It actually appears that we agree on most things!

I would still like to see the Brayder thread I have not been able to find it as of yet.
I will go back to Brayder and ask them if anything has changed since we last spoke a month and a half ago.
But I kind a doubt it.

I've seen the info and from what I can recall as was stated by Richard, they have the capability, basically didn't want to be responsible tech support or anything else having to do with folks screwing up the rom (And understandably so!), 

I guess Sony still made it complicated, thereby making it very tough to implement and use. (But once gain- never promised!)

Opinion please calm down this is just a way for people to express themselves.
Dont take anything that I write personal .

Thanks Jeff, I think I'll be okay now. :)

Though I do use my NX80 for work (Yes, I truly do) this forum is just a hobby to me...  to learn and sometimes contribute and I a tried to respond in the flavor and spirit of your post.

I'm sorry if I didn't come across this way.
i would hope that if you disagree you my posts are at least entertaining at the least.

Sure and I like stirring the pot once in a while myelf as well. :)

 
Enjoy your decision on which PDA you "like" best.

I agree 100%

PS I'm still looking for the "We Sony, promise to upgrade your OS when the next OS is available" info on my box.

It was on there when I made the purchase wasn't it? :)

 

stronggeek

11-13-2003, 10:04 PM

Now watch this one who started the thread go purchase a UX now!:D

n0m0n

11-13-2003, 11:59 PM

Stronggeek,
The only thing I want to touch upon is the following response:

"You insulted my choice without knowing me or my use, but I chose not to take that way."

I did not insult you, or anyone who owns a NX...
I own a NX80v...
Before that I owned a NX70v, and before that a NR70v.
After my last 2 years in the valley of Sony, I have heard and seen a blatant lack of effort from Sony the company to the customers, now I have my own opinion.
Just thinking back about the CF Slot driver...
People were begging for a driver for a CF clot that Sony designed for what only there PROPRIETARY cards???
Sony did not supply the driver Eruware did.
When I think of all the people who were going to commit to giving $$$ into the pot for a contest to try to bribe someone to create a driver.
What Sony did not hear their customer base's request???
Man think about it people were going to pay someone, anyone to create a driver.
Not buy a driver, but create it.
After it was created tested and proven, you then would have had to yet again pay for the actual driver...
That's nutz.
After the driver was created, and offered by Eruware, only then did Sony generate a CF driver for what the next unit...
Nice...
Think they were trying to get the people to buy MS cards for 3 times the price of CF cards.
Again its the treatment for the company not the actual product.
I also used the NX for work...
It is geared up as a multimedia unit not only a organizer.
I remember when I used to carry around a big leather Daytimer as my organizer.
To me my NX is a toy.
I am not saying you are a child no, no, no, come on lighten up.
I read these threads spy camera's, voice recorder, can you see where I am going here???
Again enjoy it.
I am waiting for my metal case for my T3 so I don't have to worry about damaging it.
After I get the case I will retire the NX, and put the T3 to the test.
Then I will see what it can do.
Who knows maybe it will make the NX shine and I will bring the NX out of retirement???
Stay tuned...

soulreaver99

11-14-2003, 02:04 AM

blatant lack of effort? hehe i kinda agree with you with that one. look at the PEGA CC5 car cradle. that was a half ***** piece of shieetz. i mean the concept and ideas of almost everything they come out with is great, but the have to cripple everything that could have been perfect. WHY?!

can say the same about tungsten e by palm though. why oh why didn't they use the universal palm connector?

Marre

11-14-2003, 03:13 AM

n0m0n :

I understand you were being colorful, but I think you totally missed what I was trying to say.

I was trying to indicate that Palm's issues are much more serious than Sony's and required such immediate response and patching. Sony's issues, on the other hand, are not as disruptive. Therefore, they don't release patches as much. Now if TJs were frying cards, Sony would've come up with a patch as immediately as Palm.

I also would like to note that Sony does offer a number of patches to its built-in programs and drivers through its support site.

I follow the news fairly regularly and I am aware that those issues I offered as examples have been fixed. You don't need to jump on it. Please try to understand the point of the message.

Another point I was trying to convey is that we should be a little bit more fair when evaluating companies, rather than being emotional.

Thank you.

n0m0n

11-14-2003, 08:23 AM

Well I have first hand seen the Sony customer relation policy and as far as I feel Sony does not support any kind of relationship with their customers other then thank you for your money.
The patches that have been needed to fix use advance have always been found to be released when the next new models is.
Case in point...
The CF Card Slot...
I am not going to go one and one.
I have also called customer support fro both companies...
I really dont care to be apologized repeatedly without actions.
Palm has been more proactive at least with me on all issues.
Hey I expect a OS update when they come out..
Now before yo or anyone else says it.
No I dont mean Os4 to OS5, or OS5 to OS6.
I mean OS5 to OS5.1, 5.2, .5.2.1 presently offered on the Palm units..
Hey love you unit its not about the physical unit its about the Sony attitude towards the customers.

And you are so wrong about their proactive or the lack there of approach:
Sony had real issues with the MS a few years back...
Hence they did fix it and release the fix ONLY after they launched their next model 6 months later.
Hey its all about the company mot personalities of the people involved.
Hey maybe they are not listening over there in Japan, or they dont care.
Whatever it is it is.
I judge by action, and outcomes not likes, and dislikes.
Prospective... this is only a PDA.

pcolin

11-14-2003, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by n0m0n

BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
This is the key...
PalmOne has just recently proven their commitment to address OS issues, like they just did with the SD card issue.
And they did create a patch that corrected ALL the card issue.
Lets see did Sony create a CF card patch, or driver before or after a private programer.
Hmmmmmmmmmm...
A private programer after so so many people offered to spot $$$ in a contest begging someone to create a driver for the CF slot...
Sid Sony listen???
Hell NO...
I think we can not compare :
- Palm did correct a major design mistake ! And was there any compensation offered to customers who destroyed cards ?
- Sony did mention in the documentation that the CF port was not CF memory card compatible. This is not a design problem, but a marketing and management (stupid) decision.
That Sony made something stupid, I can only agree. But they deliver what they say, even if it can be frustated to have a CF port and not being able to use it with card. I hope the Eruware team made a pile of money with their driver.
If the possiblity to upgrade the OS is a plus on Palm PDA, to be fair with Sony I think we can say you get what is mentioned in the documentations. Even if I never had problem with my Palm IIIc then M505...

maddie

11-14-2003, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by n0m0n
Stronggeek,

I am waiting for my metal case for my T3 so I don't have to worry about damaging it.
After I get the case I will retire the NX, and put the T3 to the test.
Then I will see what it can do.

Stay tuned...

Well, don't worry about damaging it. the T3 is well protected within itself, at least mine is!

My T3 fell twice out of my hand from a 4 feet drop, in to concrete. Yes you read right CONCRETE. It did not have a case because I had just pulled it out to hotsync it. You could imagine my scare...

It hit so hard on the concrete floor that the SD card flew out of the slot. This happend 2 times the same day!!!!

My T3 barely has a scratch, you have to really look for it to see it (after all it did hit concrete). It works fine, I could not even tell it fell, it has no cracks, the screen is intact everything its in its place.

Trully Amaizing!!, which alluminum case are you buying?

sorry for coming a little out of topic, but I heard some UX falling and breaking to pieces. Also my NX60 was beggining to peal, the body is brushed alluminum under plastic. But this T3, is pure metal!!!

Thought you'd like to know

n0m0n

11-14-2003, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by pcolin

I think we can not compare :
- Palm did correct a major design mistake ! And was there any compensation offered to customers who destroyed cards ?
- Sony did mention in the documentation that the CF port was not CF memory card compatible. This is not a design problem, but a marketing and management (stupid) decision.
That Sony made something stupid, I can only agree. But they deliver what they say, even if it can be frustated to have a CF port and not being able to use it with card. I hope the Eruware team made a pile of money with their driver.
If the possiblity to upgrade the OS is a plus on Palm PDA, to be fair with Sony I think we can say you get what is mentioned in the documentations. Even if I never had problem with my Palm IIIc then M505...

I just want to focus on this part' "not CF memory card compatible".
They lied.
Eruware proved it.
Again its about how a company abuses or not their customer base.
Hey Palm isn't a rose but beside Sony...
What color rose???

Bionic Antboy

11-14-2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by n0m0n
I just want to focus on this part' "not CF memory card compatible".
They lied.
Eruware proved it.

Well, I wouldn't call it lying.  Out of the box it wasn't compatible, deliberately so (which sucks, but it's not lying).  Just like the video resolution of the NX70.  Sony states 160x112, but the folks at clievideo.com managed to make it record video at 320x240.  Was Sony lying about that, too?  I don't think so.

It's called adding functionality through a 3rd party software.

Just wanted to point that out.  Sony has been annoying with all kinds of proprietary crap in the past but calling them liars on this issue is disingenous at the least.

n0m0n

11-14-2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Bionic Antboy

Well, I wouldn't call it lying.  Out of the box it wasn't compatible, deliberately so (which sucks, but it's not lying).  Just like the video resolution of the NX70.  Sony states 160x112, but the folks at clievideo.com managed to make it record video at 320x240.  Was Sony lying about that, too?  I don't think so.

It's called adding functionality through a 3rd party software.

Just wanted to point that out.  Sony has been annoying with all kinds of proprietary crap in the past but calling them liars on this issue is disingenous at the least.

I was responding directly to that, that was written in the post not anything else.

n0m0n

11-14-2003, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by maddie

Well, don't worry about damaging it. the T3 is well protected within itself, at least mine is!

My T3 fell twice out of my hand from a 4 feet drop, in to concrete. Yes you read right CONCRETE. It did not have a case because I had just pulled it out to hotsync it. You could imagine my scare...

It hit so hard on the concrete floor that the SD card flew out of the slot. This happend 2 times the same day!!!!

My T3 barely has a scratch, you have to really look for it to see it (after all it did hit concrete). It works fine, I could not even tell it fell, it has no cracks, the screen is intact everything its in its place.

Trully Amaizing!!, which alluminum case are you buying?

sorry for coming a little out of topic, but I heard some UX falling and breaking to pieces. Also my NX60 was beggining to peal, the body is brushed alluminum under plastic. But this T3, is pure metal!!!

Thought you'd like to know

Yes you are correct the body of the UX's, and NX's are brushed aluminum over plastic.
My NX70v was in my winter leather jacket (very padded for the winter).
My Nissan (small car) door tapped (not hit hard) my arm (elbow) it also tapped my jacket pocket.
Again it made contact with my elbow in a bent position.
Well the round part buy the camera lens broke into pieces.
Now this was form a tap while in my jacket pocket.
Oh yeah my arm not a scratch bruise on it.
Nothing not a thing no discolor nothing!!!
$599.99 made out of painted plastic...
Cheap very cheaply made.

Bionic Antboy

11-14-2003, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by n0m0n
I was responding directly to that, that was written in the post not anything else.

Care to explain a little more clearly?

You called Sony liars RE: the CF slot.

I said you were being disingenuous when you said that.

I don't see how this latest response makes any sense.  It neither defends nor further expands on your "They lied" statement.

Anyways.  A decision between the NX80 and the T3 is pretty clear to me.  Just like another thread re:  the UX and the T3.  If you want the additional hardware features (in the NX's case keyboard/clamshell/1.3MP camera), then get the NX.  If you don't want/need these hardware features, but want a HiRes+ screen, get the T3.  :)

n0m0n

11-14-2003, 10:54 AM

The person stated that the documentation said that the CF slot would not work.
And I quote:
- "Sony did mention in the documentation that the CF port was not CF memory card compatible. This is not a design problem, but a marketing and management (stupid) decision."
Period.
Well that was a lie, or a fabrication, or a manipulation from the truth the fact that it would, and now does.
Hey anything to get people to buy those really expensive MS...

Bionic Antboy

11-14-2003, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by n0m0n
The person stated that the documentation said that the CF slot would not work.
And I quote:
- "Sony did mention in the documentation that the CF port was not CF memory card compatible. This is not a design problem, but a marketing and management (stupid) decision."
Period.
Well that was a lie, or a fabrication, or a manipulation from the truth the fact that it would, and now does.
Hey anything to get people to buy those really expensive MS...

And if you read my reply, which made things quite clear, out of the box, the CF slot WASN'T compatible with CF memory (and if you pick up a refurbished NX70, it STILL isn't).  So Sony isn't lying, because right up front, they made a (as others have said "stupid") decision to cripple it.  If you actually still want to call what Sony said a lie, you're sorely mistaken...  let me teach you.

Here we go...

Sony purposefully chose to make their CF slot ONLY compatible with their WiFi card, correct?  I think we can ALL agree on that.

Now, if Sony said that the CF slot WAS compatible with CF memory in their docs/promo material, even though it wasn't, then Sony WOULD be lying - remember, the 3rd party drivers didn't come out the same day as the device itself.  Similarly, the only people who would have found out about a 3rd part driver are those LOOKING to expand their Clie's functionality.

Sony's official stance on the CF slot in the NX70/60 is/was that it is meant ONLY for the WiFi card.  Someone bypasses those measures, which is a good thing, but doesn't make Sony liars for saying it's WiFi only.

All those NX owners who DON'T frequent Cliesource and haven't downloaded an unsupported 3rd party driver haven't been lied to.

I would suggest that your dislike of Sony is clouding your reasoning.  :)

n0m0n

11-14-2003, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Bionic Antboy

And if you read my reply, which made things quite clear, out of the box, the CF slot WASN'T compatible with CF memory (and if you pick up a refurbished NX70, it STILL isn't).  So Sony isn't lying, because right up front, they made a (as others have said "stupid") decision to cripple it.  If you actually still want to call what Sony said a lie, you're sorely mistaken...  let me teach you.

Here we go...

Sony purposefully chose to make their CF slot ONLY compatible with their WiFi card, correct?  I think we can ALL agree on that.

Now, if Sony said that the CF slot WAS compatible with CF memory in their docs/promo material, even though it wasn't, then Sony WOULD be lying - remember, the 3rd party drivers didn't come out the same day as the device itself.  Similarly, the only people who would have found out about a 3rd part driver are those LOOKING to expand their Clie's functionality.

Sony's official stance on the CF slot in the NX70/60 is/was that it is meant ONLY for the WiFi card.  Someone bypasses those measures, which is a good thing, but doesn't make Sony liars for saying it's WiFi only.

All those NX owners who DON'T frequent Cliesource and haven't downloaded an unsupported 3rd party driver haven't been lied to.

I would suggest that your dislike of Sony is clouding your reasoning.  :)

Well you are wrong its your opinion, the documentation clearly states it does not and will not work with anything other then their (Sony's) WiFi card.
Listen I really don't care, its semantics, it is written on their own documentation.
I am not going to argue this point since you appear to be a loyal Sony buyer.
Representing false information, or manipulating words, is a lie.
That's my opinion, and you have yours.
period.
Everyone can take out the info package that came with the NX's and read it for themselves if they care.
Since this exchange I have its was misrepresented and that's it.
End of story.
In other words I don't care.
Each and every person can intemperate the black and white print in their own ways and make their own decision.
Have a nice day Antboy.

On a serious note what does that stand for anyway??
Do you work with ants???
Not slamming you, I am just interested, for real.
My nick n0m0n means, n0 m0ney
Get it o's with zero's!!!

Bionic Antboy

11-14-2003, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by n0m0n
...Representing false information, or manipulating words, is a lie.
That's my opinion, and you have yours.
period.
Everyone can take out the info package that came with the NX's and read it for themselves if they care.
Since this exchange I have its was misrepresented and that's it.
...
Have a nice day Antboy.

On a serious note what does that stand for anyway??
Do you work with ants???
Not slamming you, I am just interested, for real.
My nick n0m0n means, n0 m0ney
Get it o's with zero's!!!

I can't drop it just yet, since it's NOT a matter of opinion, and that just makes me more tenacious...  :)

(I'm refering to the NX70, as the NX80 does come with additional compatibility with CF memory, and Sony says so)

Fact: Sony said that the CF only works with their WiFi card.
Fact: OUT OF THE BOX:  the CF only works with their WiFi card.

Fact: Users who try to use their CF memory will find it's not compatible.

Those are the facts (NOT opinions).

Knowing those facts, if someone bought an NX70 on the hope that a 3rd party would crack the limitation, and it never came about, said user would have NO legal recourse with Sony, since Sony said that the slot was incompatible.

Thankfully, someone did crack it, adding CF functionality, but that DOESN'T make what Sony said a lie, since Sony doesn't endorse or recommend said 3rd party drivers (another f-a-c-t).  Also remember that when the NX60/70 came out, there was no 3rd party driver either.

No matter what you think about Sony crippling the CF slot out of the box, their statement ISN'T a lie. 

It's the same issue if I hacked my Xbox using the software only hack so I could boot it into Linux.  Microsoft doesn't want me to do it, and the Xbox is designed as a closed system to prevent it.  Since those safeguards are bypassed, any damage done to my Xbox because of hacking is expressly NOT covered by warranty, because I'm circumventing measures installed by the company to preent usage beyond the original intent.

It's kind of like a construction site.  If you're told you can't go on site without a hardhat and proper boots, but you do anyways and get injured, well, that's not the construction company's fault.  They warned you.  :)

period.  :)

Anyways, in short, Bionic Antboy is a typo that I liked.

In long, when some friends were visiting Ireland back in 96, I was talking to them through a web-based chat board (cheaper than phoning for sure).  I was extremely sick with the flu (the last time I've been sick like that thankfully), and gave myself the screen nick Anti-biotic Boy.  The next day when I logged on to talk to them again, one of them mistakenly typed Bionic Ant Boy, and I liked the sound of it.  Since then it became my nick in the Quake Clan I ran back then (the first Clan in the world to make Clan bowling shirts as far as I know), and it just stuck.

I've also designed the character and a short story for a personal animation project, and have started working on the 3D, which is a welcome change from animating/editing for commercials all day.  :) 

n0m0n

11-14-2003, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Bionic Antboy

I can't drop it just yet, since it's NOT a matter of opinion, and that just makes me more tenacious...  :)

(I'm refering to the NX70, as the NX80 does come with additional compatibility with CF memory, and Sony says so)

Fact: Sony said that the CF only works with their WiFi card.
Fact: OUT OF THE BOX:  the CF only works with their WiFi card.

Fact: Users who try to use their CF memory will find it's not compatible.

Those are the facts (NOT opinions).

Knowing those facts, if someone bought an NX70 on the hope that a 3rd party would crack the limitation, and it never came about, said user would have NO legal recourse with Sony, since Sony said that the slot was incompatible.

Thankfully, someone did crack it, adding CF functionality, but that DOESN'T make what Sony said a lie, since Sony doesn't endorse or recommend said 3rd party drivers (another f-a-c-t).  Also remember that when the NX60/70 came out, there was no 3rd party driver either.

No matter what you think about Sony crippling the CF slot out of the box, their statement ISN'T a lie. 

It's the same issue if I hacked my Xbox using the software only hack so I could boot it into Linux.  Microsoft doesn't want me to do it, and the Xbox is designed as a closed system to prevent it.  Since those safeguards are bypassed, any damage done to my Xbox because of hacking is expressly NOT covered by warranty, because I'm circumventing measures installed by the company to preent usage beyond the original intent.

It's kind of like a construction site.  If you're told you can't go on site without a hardhat and proper boots, but you do anyways and get injured, well, that's not the construction company's fault.  They warned you.  :)

period.  :)

Anyways, in short, Bionic Antboy is a typo that I liked.

In long, when some friends were visiting Ireland back in 96, I was talking to them through a web-based chat board (cheaper than phoning for sure).  I was extremely sick with the flu (the last time I've been sick like that thankfully), and gave myself the screen nick Anti-biotic Boy.  The next day when I logged on to talk to them again, one of them mistakenly typed Bionic Ant Boy, and I liked the sound of it.  Since then it became my nick in the Quake Clan I ran back then (the first Clan in the world to make Clan bowling shirts as far as I know), and it just stuck.

I've also designed the character and a short story for a personal animation project, and have started working on the 3D, which is a welcome change from animating/editing for commercials all day.  :) 

Search the threads...
During the days of the NX70v, Sony via e-mails stated more then once that the CF slot would not, or could never work with CF cards.
There is your fact.
Search the threads with in ClieSource.
I am not sure if all the NX70v people who were around for that are reading, this thread, or dont want to get into this debate or whatever, but I welcome their input to that FACT.
This is not my opinion they said it it was posted and that is when the people stood up and started to search for their own solution.
The people won they found it and that forced Sony to offer full usage of the slot in later models.
You are to into this my man.
I dont have stock personally or financially in Sony and have written what I know to be true not only form the documentation but from past emails exchanged information, form ClieSource members as well as form Sony themselves.
Take it for what its worth.
I really dont care if you think they are are aren't liars,
Sony said after the units were out of the box that the CF clot can not and will not work.
Well they were very wrong and now there is a great exodus over to Palm T3's you can see it in PalmOne City.
A awful lot of converts.
Enjoy your NX80v.

Bionic Antboy

11-14-2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by n0m0n
Search the threads...
During the days of the NX70v, Sony via e-mails stated more then once that the CF slot would not, or could never work with CF cards.
There is your fact.....

...I am not sure if all the NX70v people who were around for that are reading, this thread, or dont want to get into this debate or whatever, but I welcome their input to that FACT. 

In my best Chandler from Friends impression...

"Oh... My... God!!!"

You are SO missing the point.  :D  Everyone agrees TOTALLY that Sony said what you are reiterating... that the CF Slot will not work with CF cards other than their WiFi.

Here's a definition of "lie"
-To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
-To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.

Just because someone neither AFFILIATED nor SUPPORTED by Sony manages to add functionality that Sony neither endorsed nor recommends doesn't make what Sony states about the NX70's CF slot out of the box a lie, because said 3rd party went out of their way to alter the way Sony wanted the device to work, against Sony's plan.  Does that help?

Sheesh.

This is not my opinion they said it it was posted and that is when the people stood up and started to search for their own solution.
The people won they found it and that forced Sony to offer full usage of the slot in later models.
You are to into this my man.

Yes Sony incorporated additional functionality to later models, though not with all their built in media apps.  That still doesn't make them liars regarding the NX70.  The reason I'm "into this" has nothing to do with a loyalty to Sony.  It's because your opinion that Sony "lied" about CF compatibility is wrong, based on the misunderstanding of the meaning of the word "lie".  Read the Xbox analogy as a good example why they're not liars, if your obvious dislike of Sony as a company is clouding your judgement.

I'm just trying to straighten you out on the definition of a lie, as well as the difference between facts and opinions.  Opinions (hopefully) are derived from fact.  The more facts one has, the more likely an opinion itself is going to hold some water.  You ARE ignoring facts to promote an untenable opinion.  In other words, if you TRULY think Sony lied about the CF, do you think you could win such an argument in a court of law?  Even if you did have the same financial resources as Sony?  No.  Calling them liars on this issue is obviously slander.  They may be weasels for deliberately crippling the CF slot, but they tell you that up front.  If it was never cracked, your case would hold no water in a court of law, because of that.  See the forest for the trees. 

I dont have stock personally or financially in Sony and have written what I know to be true not only form the documentation but from past emails exchanged information, form ClieSource members as well as form Sony themselves.

Actually, no you DON'T sound like you have personal stock in Sony, but it sure DOES sound like you do in Palm.  Otherwise, why would you be committing slander on a Sony product based site, when you've put your NX up for sale and currently use a competitors product?  :D

...I really dont care if you think they are are aren't liars,
Sony said after the units were out of the box that the CF clot can not and will not work.
Well they were very wrong and now there is a great exodus over to Palm T3's you can see it in PalmOne City.
A awful lot of converts.
Enjoy your NX80v.

Well, I don't think the CF slot is the driving factor in people converting to T3s (although it may be the main reason for you).  As numerous comments on this board support, the main factor is Palm coming out with a non-clamshell HiRes+ device (now THAT is an opinion, but I think a well-educated one).  If the T3 had a CF slot, you may have a point, but since it doesn't, then neither do you, but that's a whole other issue.  :)

Anyways.  That's about it.  :)

n0m0n

11-14-2003, 03:33 PM

No it is you my friend who is missing the point, or maybe you don't know this, but I got my NX80v, and copied the CF drivers off of it (whatever) moved them over to my NX70v and man the CF slot was resurrected and it worked...
Will not work... vs worked...
A Lie, is a lie.
Maybe in my area of the world our definitions are different.
Trust me they hate the point that they were forced to give the CF drivers because to Eurware...
That is why they don't like to play friendly with programers.

maddie

11-14-2003, 05:05 PM

OK, guys, come down. I have converted to a T3 from NX60. Did not buy a NX80 (even though I had all the accessories for the nX80, been using sony from the S300, remember?) because of the memory, not much updates, bloated price, and of course the hinged compact flash slot everyone's been complaining about (flimsy) amongst other things.

Sony does give misleading information, 32 megs of ram of their advertiseing of the Nx80, when it reality its only 16, yes the CF slot. this info they have in very tiny letters in the specification page, you can hardly notice it. In the box it says 32 Megs of RAm, all over the stores.

I can go on and on about their policies and behaiviors. But you've already have 5 pages of this.

I conveted to T3 first is cheaper, second has HIRes screen 64MB, small form factor. Plus other software supporting issues you've discussed.

I do not think either of you is going to convince the other of one thing or the other. Both of you have a point.

I personally hate both companies, one more than the other, but I use their products, so I must not hate them that much.

I personally think that neither company cares for our discussions, actually, Palm might care more than Sony (Japan based, they have their own world, do not think much of us, bloatted egos)

But, please stop. Points well taken, no offense intended. I am sure the person who needed the info, got scared off.

Yes we are reading, but keepping a low profile, do not want to get blown up in the crossfire.

:) :d

Bionic Antboy

11-14-2003, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by n0m0n
No it is you my friend who is missing the point, or maybe you don't know this, but I got my NX80v, and copied the CF drivers off of it (whatever) moved them over to my NX70v and man the CF slot was resurrected and it worked...
Will not work... vs worked...
A Lie, is a lie.
Maybe in my area of the world our definitions are different.
Trust me they hate the point that they were forced to give the CF drivers because to Eurware...
That is why they don't like to play friendly with programers.

I'm going to give you a hypothetical situation to clarify why Sony wasn't lying...

Say you did what you say above; transfer the CF drivers from an NX80 to an NX70.  Now, say that while using a CF memory card in your NX70 (under warranty - this is important), either the Clie became unresponsive, or the card itself was fried, or both.  Even a hard reset didn't fix the Clie.

So you contact Sony (or the CF maker) to get a repair or replacement (under warranty).  If you tell them all the steps leading up to the malfunction, including copying the drivers from one device to another, there's no way Sony will honour your warranty, and will tell you that it's gonna cost to get the NX70 fixed.  You have used the NX70 beyond it's specification.

I haven't heard of this problem happening, but if someone DID encounter this problem, that's EXACTLY what Sony would say to them.  "Sorry, you violated your warranty.  Did you not read the manual?  It says that the slot is only for Sony's proprietary product(s)?  Sorry.  So will you pay for this repair by Visa, MC or Amex?"

That's what would happen, regardless how often you call them liars or complain that it worked for other people.  "Sorry, the NX70 wasn't designed to do that.  Thank you, come again."

End of story. 

n0m0n

11-14-2003, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by maddie
OK, guys, come down. I have converted to a T3 from NX60. Did not buy a NX80 (even though I had all the accessories for the nX80, been using sony from the S300, remember?) because of the memory, not much updates, bloated price, and of course the hinged compact flash slot everyone's been complaining about (flimsy) amongst other things.

Sony does give misleading information, 32 megs of ram of their advertiseing of the Nx80, when it reality its only 16, yes the CF slot. this info they have in very tiny letters in the specification page, you can hardly notice it. In the box it says 32 Megs of RAm, all over the stores.

I can go on and on about their policies and behaiviors. But you've already have 5 pages of this.

I conveted to T3 first is cheaper, second has HIRes screen 64MB, small form factor. Plus other software supporting issues you've discussed.

I do not think either of you is going to convince the other of one thing or the other. Both of you have a point.

I personally hate both companies, one more than the other, but I use their products, so I must not hate them that much.

I personally think that neither company cares for our discussions, actually, Palm might care more than Sony (Japan based, they have their own world, do not think much of us, bloatted egos)

But, please stop. Points well taken, no offense intended. I am sure the person who needed the info, got scared off.

Yes we are reading, but keepping a low profile, do not want to get blown up in the crossfire.

:) :d

Amen, and that ends that.

n0m0n

11-14-2003, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Bionic Antboy

I'm going to give you a hypothetical situation to clarify why Sony wasn't lying...

Say you did what you say above; transfer the CF drivers from an NX80 to an NX70.  Now, say that while using a CF memory card in your NX70 (under warranty - this is important), either the Clie became unresponsive, or the card itself was fried, or both.  Even a hard reset didn't fix the Clie.

So you contact Sony (or the CF maker) to get a repair or replacement (under warranty).  If you tell them all the steps leading up to the malfunction, including copying the drivers from one device to another, there's no way Sony will honour your warranty, and will tell you that it's gonna cost to get the NX70 fixed.  You have used the NX70 beyond it's specification.

I haven't heard of this problem happening, but if someone DID encounter this problem, that's EXACTLY what Sony would say to them.  "Sorry, you violated your warranty.  Did you not read the manual?  It says that the slot is only for Sony's proprietary product(s)?  Sorry.  So will you pay for this repair by Visa, MC or Amex?"

That's what would happen, regardless how often you call them liars or complain that it worked for other people.  "Sorry, the NX70 wasn't designed to do that.  Thank you, come again."

End of story. 

You need counseling

soulreaver99

11-14-2003, 06:25 PM

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks2.jpg

ricleo

11-14-2003, 11:03 PM

wow! this last post is way cool :p

Michael Quach

11-15-2003, 12:16 PM

Sorry nOmOn.... but I think Antboy's got you beat on this argument, no matter how you're trying to spin it.

Michael Quach

11-15-2003, 12:27 PM

And, I must take issue with the assertion that the NX80 is a "toy". The T3 is nice (and boring), but it simply doesn't provide the level of unified functionality that the NX80 does. I would like to present a thread I created earlier this year:

I sat down this morning, and reviewed everything I used my NX80 for yesterday:

6AM
*Put my Clie on a Seidio car mount, and listened to some MP3's via a cassette adapter, on my way to work (the hospital)

7AM
*Went to Radiology and took pictures (using my NX80) of my patient's X-rays for work rounds

7AM-8AM
*Used ePocrates during work rounds to look up drug information. Finished work rounds.

9AM
*Went to morning conference and took notes using Memopad and Decuma.

10AM-12PM
*Went to teaching rounds, and jotted down a To Do list for my patients.
*Made a checkout list of my patients using Memopad and Decuma, and beamed it to my colleagues. (I can't believe how efficient this is!)

12PM-1:30PM
*Chilled out during lunch and played a few games on my NESEM and Clie Game controller.
*Went web-surfing using a Ambicom CF modem.
*Wrote a few emails.
*Chatted with my brother using my Clie's AIM.

1:30PM-5PM
*Went to my outpatient clinic and saw my patients there.
*Used 5-Minute Pediatric Consult to look up medical information.
*Used the camera to take pictures of some weird skin lesions.
*Used Clie Memo to draw a few diagrams of heart lesions for my patients.
*Used Video Recorder to videotape a questionable seizure episode, and emailed it to the local neurologist. (The neurologist booked the patient for an appointment that same day!)

5PM
*Went home and gave my NX80 a well-deserved break!

9PM
*Went outside and found Mars using Planetarium v2.2

Let's see the T3 do all of these things :D

stronggeek

11-15-2003, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Michael Quach
And, I must take issue with the assertion that the NX80 is a "toy". The T3 is nice (and boring), but it simply doesn't provide the level of unified functionality that the NX80 does. I would like to present a thread I created earlier this year: 

1st, I also agree Michael Quach.

Bionic Antboy is right.

I sse nothing on the box or in my manual states otherwise.

No grey area on this issue for a fact is a fact!

2nd, I'm certainly glad that I'm not the only surprised by his comment about the NX80 is a "toy" as I've seen this statement by him in a few threads.

And 3rd, I like the way you showed how useful yuor NX80 is (at work as well as play).

My own NX80 is primarily used for work.

But it just goes to show that owning both devices does not make one an expert on either device.

It just depends on how you use it.

And just so everyone here knows that I'm not hooked on Sony though I like most of there products, I built my own Desktop(Not Sony), I have HP zd7000(not Sony) and other things that aren't Sony branded, so n0m0n, don't play that "you all love Sony" card on me please.

Once again as you stated earlier in this thread "nothing personal".

Well same here, because I'm just trying to spice it up for you as well.

"I'll be your huckleberry"

ricleo

11-15-2003, 01:55 PM

Lolz, I've long given up trying to get him to see that he's simply unfairly biased to Sony about 10 - 20 posts up, good luck boyz :p

Originally posted by soulreaver99
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks2.jpg

 

stronggeek

11-15-2003, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by ricleo
Lolz, I've long given up trying to get him to see that he's simply unfairly biased to Sony about 10 - 20 posts up, good luck boyz :p 

 

Richard, you're probably right, but I wanted to be fair to the individual who began this thread or anyone else making a decision between the two.

He actually should have started his own "I hate Sony thread" or posted to one (I've seen several). :confused:

mamaboo

11-15-2003, 11:01 PM

My experience with Palm and the Tungsten 2 was not very good. Palm was not good about upgrades, and their responce was not the compassionate one that some might expect. I think generally Palm and Sony treats customers about the same. PPC offers upgrades, which I wish Sony would do, but I won't go in that direction.

Bionic Antboy

11-16-2003, 10:16 PM

Wow, this thread is still going... I figured there was no more point in responding after n0m0n's last post.

Now, I wonder if Unregistered made a decision? - Probably for PPC if they followed the thread to this point.

ahfoong

11-18-2003, 02:18 AM

Errr... I was the "unregistered" user who posted this question... wow! Stirred up such a storm! ;)

Anyway, FYI, I bought the NX80... going to pick it up after work!

Why I chose it over the T3? Well, I've been playing around with a UX50 and decided that I didn't really need the BT and there aren't that many s-ware that does landscape.
Besides, I read that the 400MHz can't really be felt under normal use... and I could really make use of the AV capabilities on the NX80.
In short, I guess it fits my bill! :)

Thanks for all the feedback!

Bionic Antboy

11-18-2003, 09:29 AM

Good decision. Welcome to Clie land. :D

stronggeek

11-18-2003, 11:29 AM

Congratulations ahfoong!

You did your research and decided on what was right for YOU!

ricleo

11-18-2003, 11:43 AM

Welcome to the NX80v Exclusive club :) BTW, I've put off my UX upgrade plans to the next UX with a hopefully bigger screen :D DEcided that Bluetooth is just a luxury for me and not really a necessity for me, afterall there's still infrared :p

n0m0n

11-18-2003, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by stronggeek
Congratulations ahfoong!

You did your research and decided on what was right for YOU!

Yes, yes, I would applaud you on your purchase.
The opinions written here, are just that opinions
Whatever fits your personal needs is the correct decision.
I do not dislike the NX80v as I have clearly stated numerous times.
I actually still use my NX 50% of the time.
It is just my personal opinion about the company, or companies that is all.
You are purchasing a electronic organizer not a company.
I have been a beta tester now for many years, for one company, or another so I have a bit of experience dealing directly with programmer as well as s companies.
Most you do not have that and at this point should not.
My views could be prejudice towards the programs for they make our PDA'ing interesting.
Again, I am happy to see that you continued in your search for the best PDA for you.
My hope is that it serves your needs and that you have fun using it.

n0m0n

11-18-2003, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by ricleo
Welcome to the NX80v Exclusive club :) BTW, I've put off my UX upgrade plans to the next UX with a hopefully bigger screen :D DEcided that Bluetooth is just a luxury for me and not really a necessity for me, afterall there's still infrared :p

You should be happy about the decision that you have made...
The BT setup is a nightmare.
Hopefully soon I will figure out why it isn't working.
Maybe I should be glad that I never setup my NX with the WiFi card that I bought.
Wonder if the WiFi is any easier???
Probably not.

ricleo

11-18-2003, 11:52 AM

hmmm...but the BT on the T3 is absolutely wonderful. I simply did a search using my T610 and connected to the T3 without any additional setup required, same went for connecting to the Nokia Engage and my friend's BT phones.

n0m0n

11-18-2003, 12:13 PM

Well here are a few threads that I am on to try to figure out why it wont work...
Now let me first say I have a "very weird" setup that i am trying to do.
You will see that if you visit the below threads:

http://www.palmonecity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=34827#post34827
http://discussion.brighthand.com/palmhandhelds/showthread.php?s=&postid=256695#post256695

You may have to back up to the beginning a bit to get the full flavor of it...
See I have an open mind..
And sometimes I dont close it fast enough!!!

maddie

11-18-2003, 02:58 PM

I did not have a problem with my WiFi on my NX60 and much less of a problem with my BTW on my T3. I might of been blessed!

: )

n0m0n

11-18-2003, 03:40 PM

Well I am trying to get this BT network to work with my ethernet network.
So the two are colliding when it comes to IP address's, and sharing the internet.
Worse yet I an not setting the BT up on the primary computer that dials into the Internet.
Why I dont know just because???

Michael Quach

11-18-2003, 04:36 PM

I actually got my BT MS to work with my NX80, T68i, and AT&T Wireless. It took me 2 days to get a hold of someone at AT&T who actually knew what they were doing.

If anyone wants to know, I'll type up a thread giving instructions on what I did for it to work. The setup is very tricky and nitpicky.
I don't understand why it works, but it does :)

soulreaver99

11-18-2003, 06:54 PM

Bluetooth Setup on the memory stick is EASY. You just need to get the right drivers for which country your CLIE came from. I have the US drivers on my site and how to set it up.

http://www.blackhaloinc.com/gadgets/index.php#107

n0m0n

11-18-2003, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by soulreaver99
Bluetooth Setup on the memory stick is EASY. You just need to get the right drivers for which country your CLIE came from. I have the US drivers on my site and how to set it up.

http://www.blackhaloinc.com/gadgets/index.php#107

Thank you that is very kind of you.
Now these are drivers for Clie or Palm devices?
Thanks

n0m0n

11-18-2003, 07:16 PM

Stupid question I figured it out..Thanks again.
I have a WiFi card aht I have not tried to set up on my NX80v as of yet.
I wonder if it is easier then the Palm T3 BT???

ahfoong

11-18-2003, 07:28 PM

Sorry to bother you guys... but I've got some questions on the CF hack thingee.

I've read the entire 12 pages on the CF forum on this, and just need to clarify some things to use the CF as storage for the NX80.

1) I only need to get the hacked Movie/Audio player and hotsync to my Clie.

2) Where do I get the DataImport utility mentioned?

3) Do I need the CFUtility? Step 1c says download it from Pelaca's site... but its not applicable for NX80? But step 8 seems to need it?

I am confused... and terribly short of sleep and am back at work now.

ricleo

11-18-2003, 07:58 PM

you do not need the CF utility nor the data import as you are using the NX80v. The patched Movie and AudioPlayers will do just fine to allow CF use in multimedia apps.

n0m0n

11-18-2003, 10:24 PM

The CF utility and hack that you are reading about was created for a NX70...
The update is ready to go with the NX80v...
Oh no isn't this what I was talking about earlier in this thread!!!
Now don't get me started.

zx7dave

11-20-2003, 08:21 AM

Go with the Sony...you won't regret it.

starbuckk

11-21-2003, 02:09 PM

Well I just read through this entire thread and I don't think I ever saw a "brass tacks" answer to the original question of "NX80 or T3" (read "which is better"). Most of the discussion came down to "Sony as a company stinks" or "Palm as a company stinks". Em..ok lets agree that they both stink and get back to the point. Which PDA is superior over the other?

I have an NX-60 so I am set until either it breaks or I have the kind of money that the folks here that own five or ten PDA's have. Yet I am still curious. Discounting stinky manufaturers, which piece of hardware is superior to the other? And which supports more features on the software side?

hherbzilla

11-21-2003, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by starbuckk
Well I just read through this entire thread and I don't think I ever saw a "brass tacks" answer to the original question of "NX80 or T3" (read "which is better"). Most of the discussion came down to "Sony as a company stinks" or "Palm as a company stinks". Em..ok lets agree that they both stink and get back to the point. Which PDA is superior over the other?

I have an NX-60 so I am set until either it breaks or I have the kind of money that the folks here that own five or ten PDA's have. Yet I am still curious. Discounting stinky manufaturers, which piece of hardware is superior to the other? And which supports more features on the software side? The problem is that this is a fairly subjective question. It depends on your needs.

An NX makes sense if you want an integrated camera or keyboard. That doesn't necessarily make it superior to the T3, though.

I have an NX70V and wouldn't switch to a T3, mostly because of the integrated camera. However, I really like the design of the T3 because I never use the keyboard on my NX... and having something smaller to carry around makes sense to me.

When you say "supports more features on the software side", what do you mean?