We should stop asking Sony for CF-drivers and start asking HandEra for a color screen

[Dr.Jones]

You all know now that Sony knows we WANT and NEED CF drivers in order to make our NX PDA's truly functional.

But maybe we're asking the wrong company for this.  Maybe we should be asking Handera to bring out a COLOR screened PDA.  After all HandEra was the (and so far only) company to bring a Palm OS PDA to the market with DUAL expansion slots (CF II+ and SD/MMC slot).  The NX doesn't count because the CF slot is NOT an Expansion slot - its only a "communications" slot...

HandEra was also the first company to offer a "virtual" collapsible graffiti area, and HandEra made sure that all of the built-apps took advantage of this virtual area (from day one - not like Sony which took them till the NX series to get this feature right).

Also, HandEra was the first Palm OS PDA to implement a built-in voice recorder that recorded in WAV format and also allowed the user to select which medium (RAM, CF or SD/MMC) on which to record to. They also included a "jog-rocker" switch on the side similar to the Sony allowing for one-handed operation, along with a separate voice-record button.

The Handera 330 also had a built-in LED that held dual purposes - to flash RED when an alarm was missed (until you acknowledged it) and would glow GREEN when charging.

The Handera 330 also allowed for two different types of power options - the standard 4 AAA battery pack or the option Li-ION rechargeable battery pack (available at a reasonable price).

Also the Handera 330 and the TRG-Pro were backward compatible with all Palm III accessories.  Why are we still waiting for keyboard support from Sony??? 

Last but not the least was the fact that the HandEra 330 and the TRG Pro with its STANDARD CF slot allowed a user to add in a multitude of different devices!  Just go over to www.HandEra.com (http://www.HandEra.com) and check them out!  Be sure to check out the accessories page at : http://www.handera.com/solutions/acc_expand.asp 

So, maybe we should all be pressing HandEra for a Color-screened PDA instead of waiting on Sony to deliver (if ever) on the CF drivers.  At least HandEra listens to its customer's when it comes to system updates and built-in features. 

BTW,  I've been using a Palm since 1997 (a Palm Pilot Profession w/1MB RAM).  In Dec 1999 I bought a TRG Pro and then upgraded to the HandEra 330 in May 2001.  I still use it even today,  with all of my Palm III accessories.

I bought the NX70 because when the NX was first demostrated over in Japan there was talk that Sony engineers were working on CF drivers.  That was sometime last year.  Why are we still waiting for those drivers?  Why should we have to buy a "new" model just to get a feature was built-in and that should have been implemented with drivers.

If you remember, the HandSpring had its own dedicated "SpringBoard" slot and several creative developers came along with CF, SD/MMC and MS Spring Board's that allowed one to access these other memory options.  Maybe we should consider asking these companies as well. 

Lastly, PLEASE check out HandEra's accessories page just so you can actually see what one is capabile of doing with a true CF slot - you might just be amazed!

I am NOT trying to push the HandEra, but just trying to show you what one could DO with the CF slot if one was allowed to do so!

HandEra Accessories:  http://www.handera.com/solutions/acc_expand.asp

[n2ifp]

Okay, if you feel that way, then go get a Handera! I am tired of all the Sony bashing and how they screwed everyone.

[MaryJoS]

I actually had a Handera and dumped it for a Sony 710C when they came out. The Sony version of high-res works much better, IMO and only if Handera switched to it would I even consider getting one. However, many of your other points are very much correct. Handera had some very innovative and great products. They just are too small to really compete with the likes of Sony, unfortunately.

[Beavis]

At only $299 for a monochrome screen, 8 megs of RAM, Palm OS 3.5, and a 33 MHz processor, I'll bet the Handera 330's are flying out the door.

[Dr.Jones]

Originally posted by Beavis
At only $299 for a monochrome screen, 8 megs of RAM, Palm OS 3.5, and a 33 MHz processor, I'll bet the Handera 330's are flying out the door.

Actually, one can pick up a HandEra 330 for only $149

and a TRG Pro for $99

Both have FULL CF capabilities...

[davidy]

Where can i get a handera 330 for $149?

I had a trgpro till the nx70v.

Miss the cf slot heaps.

Was hoping handera would come out with a colour super hires os5 palm pda. Still hoping they will implement the 640x480 as per Sharp zaurus sl-c700 or oQo or besquare.

I still carry my trgpro along.

I was disappointed and disgusted with the greyscale and offscale qvga that was implemented on the handera 330. However at $149 or less I may get one.

[rldunn]

Wait for Handera to release a color model? Ummm, I think people have been asking for that a lot longer than we've been asking Sony for CF drivers. Handera has released 2 models in what? 4 years? They released a high-res device, but did it in a kludgy way that didn't work very well for most 3rd-party apps. Then they declared to the world that this was the new standard resolution. Hmmm, haven't seen any other devices with this "standard". They did add a lot of features to the Palm III body, but by the time it was released, this body style was already outdated. So I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the color HE; they're too small of a company and move too slow.

[Dr.Jones]

Originally posted by davidy
Where can i get a handera 330 for $149?


Check out the FRONT page of  www.HandEra.com (http://www.HandEra.com) ! Its right there!

(Gosh, doesn't anyone follow the links anymore??? :rolleyes:



I was disappointed and disgusted with the greyscale and offscale qvga that was implemented on the handera 330.

HandEra implemented the QVGA scale because of all the readily available QVGA screens and with the idea that it would make for an easy transition over to COLOR.  As you should all know - all PocketPC color screens are based on the QVGA format.

[Dr.Jones]

Originally posted by rldunn
Wait for Handera to release a color model? Ummm, I think people have been asking for that a lot longer than we've been asking Sony for CF drivers.



I didn't state "wait for HandEra to release a color model".  I created this poll to see about asking HandEra to begin selling their color model.  HandEra already created a color HandEra with 65K colors but never brought it to market.

 They released a high-res device, but did it in a kludgy way that didn't work very well for most 3rd-party apps. Then they declared to the world that this was the new standard resolution. Hmmm, haven't seen any other devices with this "standard".

Sounds like you don't really get out too much! - "haven't seen any other devices with this "standard"." :rolleyes:

Have you ever looked at or handled a PocketPC device?  What "standard" do you think they're based on?  :rolleyes: QVGA has been a standard since the 1st Pocket PC device came to market (and I'm not talking about the folding "Handheld PC" that they came out with years ago.

[rldunn]

Originally posted by Dr.Jones
Sounds like you don't really get out too much! - "haven't seen any other devices with this "standard"." :rolleyes:

Have you ever looked at or handled a PocketPC device?  What "standard" do you think they're based on?  :rolleyes: QVGA has been a standard since the 1st Pocket PC device came to market (and I'm not talking about the folding "Handheld PC" that they came out with years ago. I realize that I "don't get out too much", but last I checked, Handera was a Palm OS device, so I didn't think that PPC screen sizes were relevant, unless the amazing HE330 has also found a way to run PPC apps. Also, though I don't get out much, I stumbled across this article by chance (pure luck, since I usually don't check other Palm OS sites).

http://www.palminfocenter.com/print.asp?ID=2925

You'll notice this quote here from the Handera folks.

While HandEra does licence the technology, no licensees have been announced, though Mike Walter, vice president of software development for the company, has said there is a "strong interest within the industry in licensing HandEra's technology." HandEra calls QVGA "an emerging standard for Palm Powered devices".

Maybe before you come here trolling, you should do a little more homework!!

[davidy]

The QVGA standard is only for the PPC. To use QVGA for the palm requires scaling (1.5:1) of existing PALM software in a way that is lossy and ugly. Being available does not make it suitable.

I would not buy the QVGA colour Handera that they have made but not brought to the market. It is stupidity to make developers redevelope for offscale QVGA on the palm OS.

If they were to be progressive, however, and use a 640x480 screen, I would definitely buy. Though not the same scaling as 320x480, it will allow for 480x480 (3:1 scaling) backward compatibility with existing palm software, and allow for a VG area of 160x480 (ie a quater of the height of the screen is VG instead of one third as per NR/X/Z).

BTW, dr. jones, what link did you provide in relation to the $149 offer for the 330?

[Donkeystyle]

He offered the link www.handera.com for REFURBISHED pda's at that price.

[cbulock]

I hate it when there are polls, and instead of making just yes or no answers, there is always something more after the answer. I would vote no, but the the only options are " I'm going to wait till the NZ comes out and hock off my NR/NX and my first born.." or "CF Drivers? Who needs them really? I've got my 128MB MS, what else do I really need (except for maybe another MS slot?)."
Whats up with that? I don't want an NZ or Handera but I sure do want CF.

[omu]

... I too am coming from a Handera 330 (1 year).

That was as well a story of always waiting ....

In contrast to sony, I remember there was an upgrade of the OS promised (?), that never came.

Then (living in germany) there was a time everybody was waiting for a german OS. One guy did it in the end with his own company- he is selling lots of Handeras to farmers for gps-calculation of their land. He paid some poor guy to develop the german os. He still sells lots of Handeras, because they're cheaper than notebooks...

Then, the next waiting was for the color model. This was the time when the economy started to go down. Handera obviously had no money to produce a color model.

Then, everybody was discussing that IN FACT they were just an engineering consultancy company that happened to produce to PDAs.
So, people just sold their Handeras (quite a lot I think), some went for "the darks side" and some others got the NX, like me.

By the way, the guy who sells to the farmers mentioned there was some ideas about a PDA that could run both PPC as PALM OS. That was some month ago though.

As we start to think about it - are not Palm users waiting all the time as well? I remember how they slaughtered PALM before they finally anounced the Tungsten.

As a regular reader of PocketPCThoughts (which has a great sense of humor), I know that they're waiting all the time as well - for example for better screen resolution ;-)

[Eric S]

If HandEra put out a 64K color 320x480 OS5 PDA, I'd preorder it within minutes of hearing about it. If it was a 240x320 OS4 PDA, it would depend on a lot of things, but this late in the game, I doubt it.

In addition to the above mentioned features, the HandEra 330 also had a feature that people here have been whining for since the NR came out, Landscape mode built into the OS. The other nice thing it had was that it was the only PDA I've ever worked with (including several Clies) that had an alarm that was loud enough for me to use as an alarm clock.

Yeah, the HandEra 330 is overpriced now, but two years ago was a different story. Still not a great value, but quite a jump from the TRGPro in just under a year. If they'd continued at that rate, I'd have never bought a Clie.

[rob_squared]

From the accessories site: "A new security hole allows...:

Which sounded really funny since "security holes" aren't good. Then I realized it was for a lock, oh well.

[*L*F*C*M*]

Well, I love my NX70v, but if Handera would come out with a color OS5 device, I'd be out of the Sony camp in a heartbeat. Has nothing to do with bashing Sony, but I'm on my 3rd Sony device, and I am beginning to feel a little disgusted by Sony's behavior . . . (like I feel a little disgusted by Micro$oft's behavior)

When Sony starts responding to software developer requests for info, maybe I'll feel more like they're more interested in the end user than in their wallet, but it's not likely I'll feel differently before that. There's a lot of great software out there that we (OS 5 users) can't 'have' because of a lack in Sony's help.

[nike33]

SONY is dead, long live HandEra!!!!!

[oboron]

Sony, as far as I have known, have never had awesome customer relations. In fact most my engineering peers also do not much care for the company itself. However to Sonys defense they always seem to release an ALMOST perfect product for I believe a good price. So there in lies the trade off, Sony will always attempt to do what Microsoft has done, while trying to give you what you want in a snazzy new look. Can't have the cake and eat it to in this case.

[Jypsy]

I really think the handera is beat on all fronts by the nx, except for the CF slot...
but i know that there will be drivers eventually, either user or sony created. and in my mind there will be no contest.
i would rather have a large color screen, digital camera, Palm OS5, 200mhz processor, MS AND CF slot, than go with the handeras specs. you get what you pay for on that. and if they release the color screen that cute little 199 price tag will soar to probably 299. i wouldnt bother.

[mashoutposse]

Say what you want about how Sony "doesn't embrace software developers," but these past 9 months or so has seen a significant number of software version updates designed to take advantage of all of the trademark CLIE features. I think developers are positively EXCITED about the clamshell CLIEs.

Think about it: There are only two 320x480 devices on the market (and one is the successor of the other), yet already practically every program of note has been updated to support hi-res+. Heck, there have already been a decent amount of programs designed SPECIFICALLY around 320x480 (the amazing Power48 comes immediately to mind). Conversely, you'll likely spend hours on PalmGear.com looking for programs that support Handera's buggy, unpolished 320x240 resolution.

I spent the past week looking for programs to put on my NX, and I felt outright catered to by most developers. Devs are people, too; they take pride in their creations, and I think they ALL like seeing their apps on an NX in fullscreen. They like hearing their games in wavetable, polyphonic sound. They like hacking around and using the keyboard and Jog Dial to their full potential.

Programs and applications are what define a platform, and PalmOS apps shine brightest on an NX -- no contest. Even without full CF support (BTW, WiFi as implemented in the NX is EXCELLENT: exceeded my expectations). Competition is always welcome, but I don't see what a color Handera would add to the market. They basically carried over the best of Pocket PC; that strategy worked a couple of years ago (when PPC held many clear superiorities features-wise), but I doubt it would result in much today.

[Dr.Jones]

I did NOT create this poll, nor did I ever state in the poll / posting that "Sony sucks..."

I am NOT out to bash Sony or come "trolling" around (as someone suggested) to stir up dissent.  I merely stated facts about a device (HandEra 330) that had been brought out to the market with QVGA (240x320) long before Sony brought out their NR/NX/NZ (320x480) devices. Also, I offer my apologizes to those of you who felt there wasn’t enough polling options.  I should have included a simple “Yes” and “No” option.

What I do find truly amazing (not to mention close-minded) is that someone offering a different perspective on the subject of Sony / HandEra and CF drivers could be considered a “basher” or a “troll”.  As I have stated before, I have been using Palm OS devices since 1997.  How many of these accusers could state the same?  To my knowledge, a “moderator” is supposed to be a conciliator, a negotiator, or a peacemaker, not a troublemaker, an inciter, or an instigator.  Sure, this is America, and people have a right to disagree, but must one really do it with such angst, hate or disrespect?  It is enough to make one seriously reconsider about offering any sort of contributions in the future.

I often strive to thoroughly research my subject matter, and I offer my first-hand experiences and knowledge to help educate and inform, pointing out the facts as they are, to those who are interested; and I offer it freely.  I seek not to cause dissent, not to incite, and I do apologize if I have came across that way.  These are my opinions, though they may be wrong.  I’m not too proud to admit my mistakes, and I try to learn from them, and I welcome constructive criticism.  If you learn from it, then it is not a mistake, but an educational experience.

I have used Pocket PC devices in the past, but never more than a month because I've always found the PPC to be to bloated, requiring too much processing power and too much RAM and too little battery life.  We "Palmians" have been able to do so much with out Palm OS devices for so long with only 33MHz and 8MB of RAM.  Sure we now have 145/200 MHz devices with 16MB RAM, but we can still do some much, much faster, with smaller programs and a smaller RAM footprint, mostly with longer battery life, than most PPC devices can do (although the present is always changing - and for the better - thank goodness!).

HandEra did produce a Color QVGA device (240x320 w/65K colors) but it was Palm OS 4.1 based.  They didn't bring it to market because Palm was getting ready to bring forth Palm OS 5 within the year (last year) and they decided that it was not financially in their best interest to mass market their device.  The did get a large request (for about 1000 of these devices) from the prior mentioned German company, but HandEra stated at the time that they couldn't again produce less than 10,000 devices and still be able to make a profit enough to stay in business.  There was even talk within the HandEra groups to come together and join this German company in purchasing the 10K limit, but even with this group, they still fell well short of the 10,000 minimum.

HandEra originally went with the 240x320 format for several reasons.  First, without the graffiti area collapsed, the resulting space above was 240x240 - basically (160x1.5=240).  While it may seem like an odd format, HandEra created their own display format and graphics engine to convert normal (160x160) programs into the (240x240) mode, or to run at the normal (160x160) mode on the (240x320) screen, which resulted in a visibly smaller on-screen application.  Since HandEra created this new format, they did offer its license on it freely to Palm Source.

The reason HandEra choose the QVGA (240x320) screen format was because of basic economics (of supply and demand).  Every Pocket PC device being made at the time was using this format.  It was very easy for HandEra to secure a supplier of these QVGA screens as there were many produced for the PocketPC crowd, even though most of those companies were moving toward the color QVGA market.  This move by them created excess of monochrome QVGA screens, and at a very discounted price.  HandEra was making a wise business decision.  Sure, they did not bring forth a color device as many users had hoped for, but then again, this HandEra model could last for two weeks (that’s 14 days or 336 hours) on a single charge or without changing the batteries.  That is with the normal usage of 30 mins a day.  How many PocketPC devices then (or even today) can go that long on a single charge?

The other significant economical reason for HandEra to go with the QVGA screen was that HandEra was thinking toward their future.  With their screen resolution already in place on the monochrome QVGA, this would allow them to bring forth a color QVGA device without having to change the screen API.  It wasn’t “stupidity” that HandEra settled on the QVGA screen resolution, it was just common simple economics.  There are plenty of color QVGA screen manufactures’ from which to choose from, so the price for these screens would be dramatically less than courting a manufacture to produce a color (160x160), or a color (240x240), or eventually the color (320x320) and (320x480).  Other than Acer, Garmin, and the Palm TT, no one else is using this screen resolution.  It would have prohibitively expensive for HandEra to have gone with any of those screen formats.  It is far more inexpensive for any company to use the industry standard QVGA screens that are readily available for/and being used by the PocketPC crowd than the relatively few number of manufactures that use the specialty Sony screens.

One nice side benefit of HandEra’s decision to go with its (240x320) screen resolution was that Palm applications could now be viewed in Landscape format as well.  While we’re still waiting for Sony to implement this “feature”, TealPoint has taken it upon themselves to make their TealDoc software capable of Landscape display mode (http://www.tealpoint.com/softdoc.htm ).

HandEra was the first (Palm OS based) company to implement a backlit, “inking” Virtual Graffiti area; something Sony eventually incorporated into their NR/NX/NZ models.  The HandEra 330 also offers 8 FONT choices.  Sony and Palm still only offer 3 to 4 font choices.

HandEra took a gamble with their (240x320) format, with the hopes that it would take off and that they could make a great Palm OS device using readily available part on the market.  That is one of the reasons they also choose to go with the CF slot and the MMC/SD slot.  Both of these expansion slots garnered wide acceptance on the worldwide market and were also being manufactured by a number of different companies, unlike the Sony Memory Stick.  This is of course why one can now by a 1GB CF Microdrive for $220 or a 1GB CF Solid-State (SS) drive for $310 ( http://www.flash-memory-store.com/cf.html ).  While the “new” Sony 1GB Memory Stick Pro was recently announced being available for $800.  Sure, this price will drop like the Microdrive and the CF SS have in price, but certainly not this year, and perhaps not until the middle of next year.

Many medical professionals still buy and use the HandEra 330 because of all its benefits.  Being able to go several days on a single charge (because of the low-drain monochrome QVGA screen), voice recording capabilities to the CF or MMC/SD expansion modules, a very LOUD alarm, a flashing LED (for if you missed your alarm – it would flash until you acknowledged the alarm), compatible with all Palm III accessorie  (many which are still available, and now substantially discounted.).  The HandEra is still being used in many, many industrial settings as well, again due to all of the available add-ons that can be used with the full function CF slot (http://www.handera.com/solutions/acc_expand.asp ).

Just think how nice it would be if those of us that own the NX would be able to use all of the available CF devices that are out there for the HandEra (and the PocketPC devices as well) through the CF slot on our NX.  Isn’t it a shame that our NX devices are being limited (and dare I say - robbed) of its true potential, by the very company who makes it? Doesn’t the thought of that make you want to petition the company like so many are already doing (here at ClieSource).  Not that we haven’t tried, but that Sony hasn’t listened (or so it would appear…).

The last time I met personally with representatives of HandEra they stated that they were going to hold off on their color model for now (since OS 5 was being worked on at the time), but that they were actively working with several other companies on future devices.  Does anyone know who these were?  Does Garmin sound familiar?  How about Epson?  While Epson does not have a Palm OS 5 device, they did work with HandEra to produce the latest offering from Garmin – the iQue 3600.

It is totally unrealistic to expect that HandEra would release a color device now cheaper than the current competition as some have suggested.  With Sony’s NX70 going for $599 (and the NX60 for $499), the Palm TT at $399, the new Garmin iQue 3600 coming to market at $589.  If people were willing to pay these high prices, why would anyone expect HandEra to offer a color device with its current capabilities for less than $399?  If HandEra did in fact offer a Palm OS 5 device with full CF functionality of the standard CF slot, along with a color QVGA screen that is capable of displaying programs in Landscape mode, HandEra could justifiably charge $499 for such a device, and I'm sure there would be boat-loads of people jumping the Sony ship to have a device that offered true fully functional CF slot.

With all of the CF and SD accessories now available, HandEra would not need to include a built-in camera, blue-tooth, wireless, or GPS, since all of these options are currently available as either a CF or SD device.  I, personally, have been able to “cruise” the net from my HandEra 330 using my Symbol Wireless Networker card and download files to my SD card at the same time, and I had this capability back in January 2002!  Now of course my Symbol Wireless Networker card doesn’t work in my Sony NX70 because of Sony’s proprietary format on their “wireless” CF slot.  Just Great!  When I briefly owned a PocketPC device my Symbol Wireless Networker card worked just fine (with the appropriate PPC drivers of course).  Why shouldn’t one be able to use this same card that works on the HandEra or a PPC device on a Palm OS based Sony device?  Again, I’m not out to bash Sony – they made a nice device (the NX series) and I use it daily; but I would like to be able to use my Symbol Wireless Networker CF card without having to resort to buying another wireless card by another manufacture when the card is identical in shape, form and function, other than being made for / or by Sony.

So I offer one final tidbit to the inner workings and mind of Sony.  Sony is working on CF drivers – yes, it is true, but here is the deal:  Sony will bring forth CF drivers so that one will be able to use different CF devices (mind you – not all up front, but gradually…), but…. (And there is ALWAYS a “but”)… the access speed to CF devices such as memory will be slower than the access speed will be to the current Memory Sticks and extremely slower when compared to the new “Memory Stick Pro” sticks (which of course you’ll need another driver for this type).

Sony’s argument will be this:  “Why would someone want to use a slow CF memory module when someone could be using our extremely fast and efficient Memory Stick Pro?”  Sony may also include some miscellaneous subroutines that may even increase the battery drain when using CF memory modules – again, another reason not to use the CF memory modules but instead to use their Memory Stick Pro.  In time the Memory Stick Pro sticks will have dropped enough in price that it won’t make any economic sense to use the CF Memory in place of their Memory Stick Pro.

But, who is to say that HandEra won’t come out to market with their own Palm OS 5 device with full CF capabilities, along with MMC/SD slot, Bluetooth, Voice Recording, Virtual Graffiti (2), and either their own QVGA screen or adopt the (320x480) format now being used by Sony and Garmin; before Sony releases these drivers?  In the current economic situation, anything is possible – and would be Great for us users and potential buyers.  Here is one hoping for the best from all!

Sincerely,

Dr. Jones

[rldunn]

Originally posted by Dr.Jones
To my knowledge, a “moderator” is supposed to be a conciliator, a negotiator, or a peacemaker, not a troublemaker, an inciter, or an instigator.  Sure, this is America, and people have a right to disagree, but must one really do it with such angst, hate or disrespect?Is this your idea of respect?Sounds like you don't really get out too much! - "haven't seen any other devices with this "standard"." :rolleyes:I didn't notice any angst or hate in any of the posts, but maybe you had a different read on them. But from my side of the fence:

a) you came to a Clie site and posted about how great the Handera was and how awful Sony is
b) there were some further posts that pointed out how maybe Handera wasn't so great either, and these posts were done in a very civil manner
c) You then responded with the previous quoted line.

If you are so worried about disrepect being shown to you, perhaps you should be a little more respectful in your posts.

[Dr.Jones]

Originally posted by rldunn Is this your idea of respect?I didn't notice any angst or hate in any of the posts

Ah, rldunn, how about your comment? Maybe before you come here trolling, you should do a little more homework!!

Sounds disrespectful to me.  Not sure how or where you were raised, but most would consider your comment to be so.  Try reading your post out-loud to yourself and listen to what you say - this will give you another perspective on your statement and you might quite possibly understand why someone would find your comments offensive.

a) you came to a Clie site and posted about how great the Handera was and how awful Sony is

I've been a member of ClieSource for some time.  I never stated how "awful" Sony is. In fact, if you were to open your eyes, your mind, and your heart, you would have read how I commended Sony for making such a great device! 

Have I not the right to make simple statements and truthful facts even if you disagree with them?  After all, you're supposed to the "moderator", or the judge if you'd like, but not the "jury".  Judges are supposed to be impartial.  Deciding what's right or wrong is left up to the jury.  You might consider reading up on what it means to be a moderator. 


b) there were some further posts that pointed out how maybe Handera wasn't so great either, and these posts were done in a very civil manner

Yes, this is true. Several posts did make that point, and they're fine.  Only your statement and Larry's statements were markedly negative and disrespectful.  It is the inflection in which your comments become hateful.   The use of an exclamation point and the end of a sentence conveys a change of form that words undergo to mark such distinctions as those of case, gender, number, tense, person, mood, or voice.  Maybe you (and Larry) did not realize this when you used the exclamation point at the end of your sentences of your response, but this is what was inferred in doing so. 

 
If you are so worried about disrepect being shown to you, perhaps you should be a little more respectful in your posts.

Again, if you cannot see that I have been respectful toward others, then this is obviously a personal failing of yours and I cannot help you with that.  On the other hand, how you cannot see your comments as being disrespectful toward anyone is unfathomable! 

I offered my apologizes to those who felt there wasn't a clear, distinct "Yes" or "No" answer on the poll, and if my comments were offensive to anyone.  Again, if you would actually READ what I wrote you would have seen that...not that you would have understood what I wrote though, but this is assumed.  Is that too much to assume?

[cbulock]

I have to back up rldunn. Just because he is a mod, doesn't mean he can no longer voice an opinion. There have been a few times recently that people have thought that he should not have said something cause he is a mod. He's not any different than anyone else who has something to say, he just has more responsiblites here is all. You're doing a great job rldunn!

[rldunn]

Originally posted by Dr.Jones
Ah, rldunn, how about your comment?My comment was in reaction to yours. You directed a disrespectful comment at me, so I directed one back at you.
Sounds disrespectful to me.  Not sure how or where you were raised, but most would consider your comment to be so.  Try reading your post out-loud to yourself and listen to what you say - this will give you another perspective on your statement and you might quite possibly understand why someone would find your comments offensive.Thanks for the lesson. But actually, I think you're the one who needs it. IMO, no one in this thread was disrespectful until you were.

Have I not the right to make simple statements and truthful facts even if you disagree with them?You have every right to state your opinion, even if others disagree with it. Just as others have this same right. Apply the same rule to yourself as you do to others. I disagreed with you, and you replied in a disrespectful way, apparently because you didn't agree with what I was saying.

After all, you're supposed to the "moderator", or the judge if you'd like, but not the "jury".  Judges are supposed to be impartial.  Deciding what's right or wrong is left up to the jury.  You might consider reading up on what it means to be a moderator. Thanks for helping to define this for me. Not quite sure why moderators and judges have the same responsibilities in your book, but that's good to know. Now, if I could only get a judge's pay for these duties!!


Yes, this is true. Several posts did make that point, and they're fine.  Only your statement and Larry's statements were markedly negative and disrespectful.  It is the inflection in which your comments become hateful.   The use of an exclamation point and the end of a sentence conveys a change of form that words undergo to mark such distinctions as those of case, gender, number, tense, person, mood, or voice.  Maybe you (and Larry) did not realize this when you used the exclamation point at the end of your sentences of your response, but this is what was inferred in doing so. I looked back through my initial post that you reacted to, and didn't see any exclamation points. There were some question marks, but no exclamation points.

Again, if you cannot see that I have been respectful toward others, then this is obviously a personal failing of yours and I cannot help you with that.  On the other hand, how you cannot see your comments as being disrespectful toward anyone is unfathomable! I never said my comment back to you wasn't disrespectful. I merely pointed out that it was in reaction to a disrespectful comment made by you first. How you could not see your comment as disrespectful is "unfathomable". Maybe this is a personal failing of yours.

I notice how you are quick to claim that you were disrespected, but you failed to point out that my original post in this thread that you reacted too had a point that was backed up. I still stand by the comment I made then; it seems that the whole point of this thread was to stir things up. In my book, this is trolling. Perhaps that wasn't your intent, but it's not obvious that it wasn't. People disagreed with your original point in a civil manner, including myself, and you seemed bent on attacking those points. But when someone treated you in the same manner, all of a sudden, it was a problem. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Anyways, I'm done with this discussion. If you want to discuss this further, feel free to PM me.

[iebnn]

Originally posted by Dr.Jones


Actually, one can pick up a HandEra 330 for only $149

and a TRG Pro for $99

Both have FULL CF capabilities...

You can't listen to MP3s on the HandEra. You can't really watch video. Why would I want this for its CF slot again?

[iebnn]

Also, Sony is not going to release drivers that limit speed for CF access. That is not going to happen.

Of course the NX is going to have a Memory Stick slot. Sony makes them. They make money o ff of them. This is to be expected. Don't like MS, don't get a clie. You can't complain about this.

Also, with the NR, it wasn't a major issue that it didn't have CF.... but now that they add a CF slot and only write drivers for a few cards, you call it "robbery" and complain to no end about their letting you add wifi capability to the device?

[*L*F*C*M*]

Dr. Jones~

Um, respectfully, rldunn is one of the most respected and beloved moderators on this board. He does an excellent job here, as I'm sure everyone will agree. I find it offensive that you would attack him personally, when you don't know him.

I respectfully suggest you may want to read some of the information contained in this OUTSTANDING CLIESOURSE THREAD (http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2660&highlight=troll).

In addition, you may find the first few posts of THIS THREAD (http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2527) informative and helpful.

[Dr.Jones]

Its nice to know that rldunn is considered a "respected" and "beloved" moderator and that its considered that he does and outstanding job here.  But to state "everyone loves him here" is just not true.  Most may love him, but to state "everyone" is just too inclusive!  Sorry!

Again, I offered this poll and posting ask if anyone had considered asking HandEra to bring forth its color device.  Competition is good for the market.  If it wasn't for Sony, Palm might still be using (160x160) screen resolution.  If it were not for the Pocket PC devices, Palm OS devices might still be running at 33 MHz.  Again, competition is good for the market.  So the hope and thought was that if Sony thought that HandEra might seriously consider bringing its color pda to the market, then maybe that might just be the spark of fire under Sony's feet.

As it turned out, someone comes along here to ClieSource offering their insight and suggestions, and they are chastised for it.  This sure does help push forward the idea of "reader contribution"! 

Someone else stated that they "haven't seen any other devices with this "standard"" - referring to the QVGA (240x320) standard.  Again, "any" is too inclusive and obviously this poster wasn't exclusive with their statements.  Pocket PC's certainly fall under the "any other devices" gross generalization.  I included the :rolleyes: "smiley" at the end of my first reply to imply a light-hearted mannerism like as it to say "well, what about the Pocket PC devices, they're using the standard QVGA screen, don't they count?".  I thought that was what the :rolleyes: "smiley" were all about.  If I thought rldunn made an obviously stupid comment about there wasn't any other devices that he was aware of that used this "standard" - I could have used :mad: if I was trying to be hateful, but I didn't.

I continued to be amazed by other posters, especially those with the large number of postings to their names, that my statements and opinions are construed as being trollish.  Do you lash out at everyone who comes here to offer a different point-of-view?  Is this how you've managed to accumulate so many postings to your name?  Several of you come across as a bunch of groupers, swimming around here in your little pond.  A new fish comes into the pond, offering new ideas, asking probing questions, or isn't swimming in sync with everyone, and suddenly they're automatically considered to be hostile. 

I could understand your feelings if I came in and pissed in your pond, said Sony sucks :D , HandEra rules :o , that you could kiss your CF memory abilities a fond farewell :eek: , you all have money to burn and Sony knows it and you both just don't give a damn, cussing up a storm and using foul language, but... I didn't.  Is this what someone must do to appear to be "one-of-the-boys" and get a little respect?  The "screw you and the horse you rode in on; now kiss my feet" attitude? 

As I stated before, I still enjoy using my Sony NX70 daily, and I find it is great for recording classes and lectures; and that has several other nice features.  But exchanging such nice pleasantries from those few individuals is enough to drive one away, and maybe that is exactly what you're really after.

Someone comes into your little world - and you feel threatened - because you're the big fish in this pond! If anyone might sound the least bit knowledgable or insightful, you find it necessary to gobble them up before everyone sees you for the bully that you are.  So, to you I say "gobble away" - hope your stomach can handle it all.  I find the water here a bit too putrid and foul smelling for my tastes.  

Good Riddance? Good for you! Yes! I'll be more than happy to move along as well.  I'm definately not a bird of your feather, and I'll be more than happy not to flock together here anymore.

So long,

and thanks for all the fish... :p

[iebnn]

Originally posted by Dr.Jones
Its nice to know that rldunn is considered a "respected" and "beloved" moderator and that its considered that he does and outstanding job here.  But to state "everyone loves him here" is just not true.  Most may love him, but to state "everyone" is just too inclusive!  Sorry!

*snip snip snip*

Good Riddance? Good for you! Yes! I'll be more than happy to move along as well.  I'm definately not a bird of your feather, and I'll be more than happy not to flock together here anymore.

So long,

and thanks for all the fish... :p

Arguing on the internet is like the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.