PalmGear raising rates.

[Unregistered]

Just remember that when you plunk down your hard earned cash, make sure it gets to the developer. PalmGear is raising its take to 30%. The frustrating thing it they say it's because of operating expenses. hmmm.... could be that cruise they are taking select individuals on.

[Prozak]

Well that sucks, but the developers always do have the option to release their material on a CD, or a Floppy Disk and have it mailed to you.

[hherbzilla]

Ultimately it's up to the developer through which channels they decide to sell. If they choose to sell through PalmGear, then I don't think it's fair to fault the consumer for purchasing from them. Personally, I like to buy from Handango... I guess mostly because of the frequent buyer program.

I don't know what % these companies take from the developer, and I'm not exactly sure what's fair. However, they certainly, provide a service for the developers. There's also a big convenience factor for customers, since we can just go to one place to find just about anything.

I suppose I'd happily buy direct from the developer 1) if that was an option (sometimes it isn't), and 2) if they indicated that was the preferred method of purchase.

[rhart00]

and Palmgear's demise continues...

[vansouza]

Really tired of the anti Palm Gear rant... Free speach not withstantind... I like buying from them and do not trust the other site. Just person taste, no morality attached at all... thanks...

[Griff]

Never a good thing to see rates go up for sure.

To bring this to a bit more of a level field though I will point out that Handango also charges 30% and has been for as long as I can recall.

I'll also remind people that PG introduced a new program to developers a while back that reduces PG's take to 15%.

It really amazes me to see how many people have been willing to forget how the folks at Handango screwed PG and with it the Palm community a few years back.

[lesliefranke]

Other than Handango, PalmGear or directly from a developer what other choices (that contain most or all of the popular titles) are there for the consumer to buy Palm software from?
PalmGear is raising its take to 30%. The frustrating thing it they say it's because of operating expenses
As a aside, what other services does PalmGear provide for the developer besides conducting the sales transactions and providing a hosting place and some marketing for their software. Of course there is immense value in those services, but 30% seems extremly high.

[Hannibal]

Originally posted by lesliefranke
Other than Handango, PalmGear or directly from a developer what other choices (that contain most or all of the popular titles) are there for the consumer to buy Palm software from?


I would like to see more choices than Palmgear and Handango, to keep them from monopolizing. I've started supporting www.pdagreen.com whenever I can. They charge developers 15% as of now. They also have links to the developers sites which I like.

[n2ifp]

Originally posted by Hannibal


I would like to see more choices than Palmgear and Handango, to keep them from monopolizing. I've started supporting www.pdagreen.com whenever I can. They charge developers 15% as of now. They also have links to the developers sites which I like.

Thanks, I will give a closer look at PDA Green!:)

[TechnoCat]

Originally posted by Hannibal
I would like to see more choices than Palmgear and Handango, to keep them from monopolizing. I've started supporting www.pdagreen.com whenever I can. They charge developers 15% as of now. They also have links to the developers sites which I like.
I did a comparison this weekend (see my thread in General). PDA Green kinda sucks. Poor selection, terrible browsing arrangement, and requires you select a password to purchase. Despite my bias against PalmGear, they easily won the comparison against Handango and PDA Green based on more free software, better selection, good organization and responsiveness... and they removed the password requirement in response to my letter.

That makes PalmGear the easier place for the consumer to go to for all PalmOS software. You just can't get some of it from PDA Green or Handango, because those two sites didn't bother with the free stuff.

So PalmGear provides consumers. The developer can choose if they're willing to pay a larger cut of each sale but make more sales, or if they'd rather stand on principle and not work with PalmGear. But the savvy developer knows that the average consumer isn't going to hit all three sites to find software. They'll go to one, the one they've had the best luck at.

In other words, PalmGear is creating a monopoly through the slimey shifty practice of giving the customer what they want and providing developers with sales. The bastards. ;)

[Hannibal]

Originally posted by TechnoCat

I did a comparison this weekend (see my thread in General).


So glad you are happy with your results. You have to also realize that PDAGreen is a much younger site in the process of growing. I'm still sending my $$$$ to www.pdagreen.com, thank you very much. :)

[Griff]

Gotta keep in mind that Handango charges the same as PG does at the moment.

I'd asked one of my favorite developers a while back if he'd support/post on PDA Green, and his response was that it was too much trouble. He said he'd wait until they got bigger. Catch-22.

[riversen]

Originally posted by Griff
It really amazes me to see how many people have been willing to forget how the folks at Handango screwed PG and with it the Palm community a few years back.

What happened a few years ago???

[riversen]

Originally posted by TechnoCat

In other words, PalmGear is creating a monopoly through the slimey shifty practice of giving the customer what they want and providing developers with sales. The bastards. ;)

Now that is funny. :D What is the world coming to? We will experience free enterprise and a capitalistic economy... what horror?!?!?!

[tpipher]

Yea, what is the story from a few years ago? 

[Hannibal]

Originally posted by Griff
I'd asked one of my favorite developers a while back if he'd support/post on PDA Green, and his response was that it was too much trouble. He said he'd wait until they got bigger. Catch-22.

That's seems odd. Most developers I know post everywhere they can with the idea that the more product exposure the higher the potential of selling their products. I see a lot of well-known developers/marketers at www.pdagreen.com, such as Handmark, Astraware, Beiks, Tealpoint, etc. The more support from developers and buyers, the faster they will grow. That's why my $$$ go there whenever possible.

[TechnoCat]

Originally posted by Hannibal
So glad you are happy with your results. You have to also realize that PDAGreen is a much younger site in the process of growing. I'm still sending my $$$$ to www.pdagreen.com, thank you very much. :) So happy, in turn, that you managed to take a polite discussion and add snottiness to it. And no, I don't have to care whether PDA Green is new or not. The customer won't. Your bank account won't. You wouldn't buy an inferior car simply because the company was new, so why seek out an inferior site due to them being new?

[elf]

When I was a freelance programmer, the worst aspect of it was dealing with the business side. Doing the invoicing, and the tax related paperwork.

Ask any programmer who want to make money by selling his software and they will tell you that the business side is the least attractive prospect of writing software.

That is where PalmGrrr and the like come in-- they are the middle-man who will help programmers sell software. Good software sells itself-- by word of mouth on forums such as this. You don't really need a huge advertising budget, all you need is a forum and lots of people visit and a place for people to go buy the software.

Of course there is a cost involved in selling software, the overheads of processing credit card transactions and checks, and paying the programmers to code the databse and the web pages. So that's where the cost to the middle-man comes in, and naturally, they want a cut of the action.

This thought just occured to me: has ClieSource considered selling software for the programmers?

[hherbzilla]

Originally posted by TechnoCat
So happy, in turn, that you managed to take a polite discussion and add snottiness to it. And no, I don't have to care whether PDA Green is new or not. The customer won't. Your bank account won't. You wouldn't buy an inferior car simply because the company was new, so why seek out an inferior site due to them being new? Yes, this is essentially the point I was on. I don't know what % these companies take from the developer, I don't know what happened with handango a few years ago... I simply know which is a better experience for me. Can I go to one place and find the app I need? Is the ordering process smooth? The new PalmGear is looking good, but I switched to Handango a while back when PG was having problems and was in transition. The kicker for me was Handango's Frequent Buyer program. I buy enough software that it's worthwhile for me to purchase from them. I want the best experience for ME. If the developer is getting screwed (and it doesn't sound like this is the case anyway), then it's ultimately their fault for selling through these channels.

[TechnoCat]

Originally posted by hherbzilla
The kicker for me was Handango's Frequent Buyer program. I buy enough software that it's worthwhile for me to purchase from them.
I hadn't heard about the Frequent Buyer program. What's it do for you? Since I don't bother maintaining accounts (I purchase as "guest" on Handango), it's probably moot, but I buy something at least once a month from one site or another.

[hherbzilla]

Originally posted by TechnoCat

I hadn't heard about the Frequent Buyer program. What's it do for you? Since I don't bother maintaining accounts (I purchase as "guest" on Handango), it's probably moot, but I buy something at least once a month from one site or another. You get points with each purchase. Reach a certain amount and you get, say, $10 off a purchase.

[riversen]

Originally posted by hherbzilla
You get points with each purchase. Reach a certain amount and you get, say, $10 off a purchase.

It really sucks because there are all sorts of restrictions. Because I bought DateBK5 and Super Names from the developers sights (then was linked to Handango), I did not get any credit. I paid the same but no credit.

Also, get emails all the time from Palmgear about sales on certain pieces of software. I saved $10 on Pocket Quicken that way. That was a lot better than working with Handango.

[hherbzilla]

Originally posted by riversen
Also, get emails all the time from Palmgear about sales on certain pieces of software. I saved $10 on Pocket Quicken that way. That was a lot better than working with Handango. Yes, you always need to look out for the deals... no matter where you prefer to shop.

[ojleblanc]

So no one is going to fill the rest of us in on what happened with Handango a few years back?

Anyone????

[Hannibal]

Originally posted by TechnoCat
So happy, in turn, that you managed to take a polite discussion and add snottiness to it. And no, I don't have to care whether PDA Green is new or not. The customer won't. Your bank account won't. You wouldn't buy an inferior car simply because the company was new, so why seek out an inferior site due to them being new?

Actually, if you follow the thread back to where you quoted me, you will see that you started the sarcasm with your little "bastards" remark, so not sure you started out completely "polite." I merely responded to an inquiry about alternative Palm OS sites and you decided to step in at that point. And, no you don't have to care whether PDAGreen or any other Palm OS site is new or not, but you can't speak for all customers, me being one myself. Regarding "inferior," which is relative, being new does not imply "inferior," and I doubt the software at PDAGreen is "inferior" to the software at other Palm OS websites, so your car analogy breaks down pretty badly, but thanks for your comments anyway. :)

[TechnoCat]

Originally posted by Hannibal
Actually, if you follow the thread back to where you quoted me, you will see that you started the sarcasm with your little "bastards" remark, so not sure you started out completely "polite."Quote the whole thing; it was humor, unlike your snottiness. But apparently in the eye of the beholder. Almost anything can be taken out of context and made to look worse at the expense of useful conversation.

Originally posted by Hannibal
And, no you don't have to care whether PDAGreen or any other Palm OS site is new or not, but you can't speak for all customers, me being one myself. Regarding "inferior," which is relative, being new does not imply "inferior," and I doubt the software at PDAGreen is "inferior" to the software at other Palm OS websites, so your car analogy breaks down pretty badly, but thanks for your comments anyway. :)
Not if you read my post rather than (again) taking stuff out of context. I didn't say the software was inferior at all. I said I found the selection and browsing on PDA Green inferior. And, if you go to my original post in General, you'll see I specifically point out "Your scorecard may vary"; I'm not trying to speak for everyone. So why are you?

[Griff]

OK...this is what I remember in a nutshell...there likely could be more research done on the web, and others might be able to chime in with more details.

Basically the company that funded Handango was going to fund PG before Handango ever came about. During the negotiations, things turned sour and both parties went their seperate ways. The company then funded Handango, and sued PG for breech of contract.

The suit was eventually decided in PG's favor, but not before a great deal of money was spent on defending themselves that they weren't able to recover.

That's really what spawned the start of trouble for them. While I don't agree with how PG had to handle the situation, I do tend to side with them as I believe the HDG suit was done in the spirit of bullying to kill the competition.

This was big news back a few years ago, I'm surprised no one remembers it. For a while HDG was hated more than PG is now. In fact there was a time people were upset with Palm for giving HDG their business and overlooking the suit.

Here are some interesting links I found while searching for more information. It's amazing that just 2 years ago Handango seemed to be the scurge of the community, but now PG seems to be.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2721
http://www.pdaavenue.com/showthread/t-1415.html
http://www.dfwtechbiz.com/displayarticledetail.asp?art_id=48397&search=palmgear
http://www.ultraviolet.org/mail-archives/pilot-digest.2001/0338.html

Also found this quote attributed to a site that seems to be no longer, pdanutsandbolts.com
There is something that "stinks" with regards to the recent lawsuit between Fort Worth-based Q Ventures LP and PalmGear.

In a "nutshell" these two going concerns entered into a "tentative" discussion about securing venture capital for Palmgear. It was alleged by Q-Ventures LP. that Palmgear committed themselves to selling 80 percent share of the company in exchange for financing. Before negotiations ever had a chance to get off the ground Q-Ventures LP announced in a "memo" to PalmGear that the "deal was off". Shortly after they filed the lawsuit.

After two and a half years of litigation the jury in the case unanimously voted that no "contract" had been entered into by either party. Further it was determined had there been any serious discussion on the subject it was in fact Q Ventures who terminated negotiations with its memo stating the deal was off.

Now I present you with an interesting footnote to this story. Randy Eisenman, director of venture capital investments at Q-Ventures LP is also a founder of PalmGear’s rival, Handango Inc.

[Battloid]

But Handango didn't "run off" with my money like PG did and now I have to suffer a 3 year repayment (at 0% interest I might add) in order to receive money that is legally and rightfully mine!

PalmGrrr indeed...

[Griff]

Originally posted by Battloid
But Handango didn't "run off" with my money like PG did and now I have to suffer a 3 year repayment (at 0% interest I might add) in order to receive money that is legally and rightfully mine!

PalmGrrr indeed...

No, you are right...as I mentioned in my post I don't agree with how things have happened. Hopefully though you can see how PG was forced into a position of having to offer a repayment plan or go bust. I'm not trying to imply PG is the perfect company, but I do want to remind people about some of what has gotten them to the position they are in now.

[Hannibal]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hannibal
Actually, if you follow the thread back to where you quoted me, you will see that you started the sarcasm with your little "bastards" remark, so not sure you started out completely "polite."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote the whole thing; it was humor, unlike your snottiness. But apparently in the eye of the beholder. Almost anything can be taken out of context and made to look worse at the expense of useful conversation.

Hannibal: yes, "in the eye of the beholder." Same goes for my response that you feel is snotty. ;)


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hannibal
And, no you don't have to care whether PDAGreen or any other Palm OS site is new or not, but you can't speak for all customers, me being one myself. Regarding "inferior," which is relative, being new does not imply "inferior," and I doubt the software at PDAGreen is "inferior" to the software at other Palm OS websites, so your car analogy breaks down pretty badly, but thanks for your comments anyway.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Not if you read my post rather than (again) taking stuff out of context. I didn't say the software was inferior at all. I said I found the selection and browsing on PDA Green inferior. And, if you go to my original post in General, you'll see I specifically point out "Your scorecard may vary"; I'm not trying to speak for everyone. So why are you?

Hannibal: Again, your "inferior" car analogy makes no sense in reference to the topic. And how do you arrive at me speaking for everyone? Read it again, I merely responded to an inquiry about alternative Palm OS sites and gave PDAGreen as an alternative to the bigger ones monopolizing the market. You are the one who said the customer won't care (quoting you: "And no, I don't have to care whether PDA Green is new or not. The customer won't."), implying all customers, of which I am one and I do care and therefore took exception to that. So, different strokes for different folks. Let's leave it at that and agree to disagree as we will not come to agreement on this.

[TechnoCat]

Originally posted by Hannibal
Again, your "inferior" car analogy makes no sense in reference to the topic.
It does to me, so allow me to explain. The "product" of a car company (say, Saturn) is cars. You don't care if the company is old (Audi, Ford) or new (Saturn, Kia to the U.S.) as long as quality is high and the product is what you want. If the quality is low, which in cars is measured by defects, rattles, rust, and even price, then you aren't likely to buy regardless of age of the company.

The "product" of Handango/PDA Green/PalmGear is the software browsing/buying experience. And, for developers, the delivery of sales. It is not the actual software; that's merely a commodity, analogous in this case to the brand of tires on a car. Yeah, it makes a difference to the perceived value of the product - customers want selection - but given sufficiently good browsing and purchasing experiences, the customer may not care that some software they haven't heard of isn't there, and in fact they may wind up using the site as their data portal.

For example, take Amazon. Their product too is the site, the channel. The personalization features and breadth are the real added-value of Amazon. Similar prices were available from CD Now, B&N, BookPages, and more... but Amazon won on the site-specific layout and personalization, including breadth. Now many of those have been subsumed into Amazon.

So I view the "product" of the Palm software sites as the browsing experience, breadth, and customer funnel, just as the "product" of Saturn is cars.

Next question: How do you measure the quality of the product? You obviously measure it differently than I, but based on my experience with users, I measure it on ease of category browsing, breadth and ease of purchase. Those are what I compared in my General post.

At this point there's a defined product and a defined metric for both cars and Palm software sites. Hence, to me, the analogy made sense. It doesn't matter that one product is physical and largely produced in factories (albiet not primarily G.M. factories - they outsource an amazing amount) while the other is more etherial. All that matters is that we've defined product and metrics.

I think I understand your disagreement; you view the sites as service providers subject to different definitions and metrics. Does that necessarily exclude my perspective?

[Hannibal]

Originally posted by TechnoCat
I think I understand your disagreement; you view the sites as service providers subject to different definitions and metrics. Does that necessarily exclude my perspective?

No, you are welcome to your perspective of course and we differ, but that's what makes the world go round I suppose. ;) End of story on my part.

[ojleblanc]

Originally posted by Griff
OK...this is what I remember in a nutshell...there likely could be more research done on the web, and others might be able to chime in with more details.

Basically the company that funded Handango was going to fund PG before Handango ever came about. During the negotiations, things turned sour and both parties went their seperate ways. The company then funded Handango, and sued PG for breech of contract.

The suit was eventually decided in PG's favor, but not before a great deal of money was spent on defending themselves that they weren't able to recover.

That's really what spawned the start of trouble for them. While I don't agree with how PG had to handle the situation, I do tend to side with them as I believe the HDG suit was done in the spirit of bullying to kill the competition.

This was big news back a few years ago, I'm surprised no one remembers it. For a while HDG was hated more than PG is now. In fact there was a time people were upset with Palm for giving HDG their business and overlooking the suit.


Thanks for the backstory!