Odd problem using netfront.

[calenth]

I posted this on the nx80v boards, and people were very helpful, but figured it might be better to post here.

I've set up a wireless network connecting my desktop and laptop computers. I tried to connect my handheld to it, and ran into problems. Ended up having to enter the ip address, subnet mask, and primary dns values manually. The handheld connects to the network and the handheld's MAC address is shown on the network status page. I can ping other computers on the network from the handheld.

I can now hotsync using the wifi network & have done so. However, i can't use NetFront to access web pages. What makes it really weird is that I can enter the ip addresses of web pages, and NetFront will load them: I entered 66.218.71.198 and got yahoo.com 's 404 page, but when i entered "www.yahoo.com" or any text URL I get an "invalid network settings" message and cannot browse.

Any ideas how to fix this? What might be causing the problem? I can browse fine via my laptop, also connected wirelessly to the same network.

[gnassel]

Hi,
I had exactly the same problem, after a hardreset (with new installation) i never got this message later.
best way you make a ms backup and try it with a naked clie.

hope could help you

[Drachen]

Definitely sounds like a DNS problem. All the other networking setting seem right or you wouldn't be able to get the Yahoo page. I'd double-check the DNS entries you made to the Clie just in case. I'd also check to see if there is a firmware upgrade for your router/AP. I have a Linksys that was giving me tons of problems until I upgraded to the newest version.

[okmozart]

I had that problem with my office router. Use valid DNS addresses and make sure the ones in the router and on the PDA match. At home, I can use "auto" settings, but at the office I have to specify settings.

If you are using a Windows machine, goto a DOS prompt window and type the command "ipconfig". It will display the current DNS settings. Copy those to your PDA network settings.

[calenth]

Originally posted by okmozart
I had that problem with my office router. Use valid DNS addresses and make sure the ones in the router and on the PDA match. At home, I can use "auto" settings, but at the office I have to specify settings.

If you are using a Windows machine, goto a DOS prompt window and type the command "ipconfig". It will display the current DNS settings. Copy those to your PDA network settings.

yup, that's what I tried to do & how I got this far. Here's what I got, from the desktop:


C:\>ipconfig /all

Windows 2000 IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : thornwel-3js90a
Primary DNS Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : launchmodem.com

Ethernet adapter HOME:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : launchmodem.com
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NETGEAR FA311/FA312 PCI Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-09-5B-1F-5B-BA
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.2
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Saturday, August 09, 2003 1:26:26 PM

Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, August 12, 2003 1:26:26 PM


I also went to the device status page for my router, and got this:


WAN Ethernet
Cable/xDSL: Active
WAN IP address:
192.168.1.2
DNS Server:
192.168.1.254
Gateway IP :
192.168.1.254



Currently I have 192.168.2.1 entered as the handheld's Primary DNS, with secondary DNS blank.

[Drachen]

Wow. That's a pretty odd setup. Your DNS on the Windows machine is pointing directly to the router and it's pointing off to another server in a non-routable network. The only thing I can suggest is to try the IP the router is using for DNS or see if your ISP has other DNS servers available. If the Windows station works with those settings, I'd suspect something is wrong with networking software on the Clie. I guess try uninstalling/reinstalling the driver or possibly, as gnassel said, try backing up, hard resetting and installing the newest WiFi driver from an MS.

[calenth]

Hrm. I tried to find out if I had the newest WiFi driver but I couldn't find it on sony's website. I've got the pega-wl110 card, on an nx80v clie. Any pointers to the right driver and/or networking software?

[Drachen]

Hmmmm. I didn't realize you had an NX80. IIRC, the latest driver is already on your Clie in ROM, so the driver is probably not corrupt. Scratch the driver reinstall. You've got it already.

Just out of curiosity, what model router and AP are you using?

[calenth]

Dell wireless truemobile 1184, came with dell laptop -- just got it all this weekend. Connected to a bellsouth DSL connection on a westell wirespeed modem, via ethernet cables. Ethernet card in the desktop is something random from best buy, laptop has a dell truemobile 1400 something something min-pci wireless card in it.

[okmozart]

This is a wild guess, but is the modem setup to act as a router? There may be a BIG conflict if the modem AND the router are acting as routers (been there done that - not pretty). That may explain the strange DNS numbers. Also, some routers have additional security on the wireless ports that may have to be addressed.

When you use the NetMon silk that is on the NX80 CD, do the network config numbers match the desktop?

[calenth]

hrm. not sure. haven't tried using netmon silk at all.

This is what i get from the laptop, which is connected wirelessly to same router:


Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : laptop
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated Con
roller
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0B-DB-9E-18-18

Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : launchmodem.com
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Dell TrueMobile 1400 Dual Band WLAN
Mini-PCI Card
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-90-4B-27-AF-1A
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.3
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:48:58 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, August 13, 2003 5:48:58
M

[Drachen]

Ouch. Seems like you're doing more routing than you need to. The Westell seems to be set up to do NAT and you've got the Dell in front of it doing NAT. It would seem to me that the whole setup might work more efficiently if you just used the Dell as an AP and disabled routing on it. Unless you're doing firewalling, it's uneccessary to have an additional subnet. My guess is that you could just put the Dell's intenal NIC on the 192.168.1.0 subnet. Just make sure that the internal NIC gets a valid address on that network and that only one router is doing DHCP on the internal NIC. Making sure that the WAN NIC isn't on the 192.168.1.0 subnet is also a smart idea. Hopefully the Westell already seems to be doing DHCP, so you should be able to get DHCP working correctly on the Clie.

YMMV, of course. :D

[calenth]

Originally posted by Drachen
Ouch. Seems like you're doing more routing than you need to. The Westell seems to be set up to do NAT and you've got the Dell in front of it doing NAT. It would seem to me that the whole setup might work more efficiently if you just used the Dell as an AP and disabled routing on it. Unless you're doing firewalling, it's uneccessary to have an additional subnet. My guess is that you could just put the Dell's intenal NIC on the 192.168.1.0 subnet. Just make sure that the internal NIC gets a valid address on that network and that only one router is doing DHCP on the internal NIC. Making sure that the WAN NIC isn't on the 192.168.1.0 subnet is also a smart idea. Hopefully the Westell already seems to be doing DHCP, so you should be able to get DHCP working correctly on the Clie.

YMMV, of course. :D

Heh, yah lost me ( I don't know what NAT and WAN NIC are, for example :P) What you're saying is, I somehow have two routers going? That would figure. I wonder how on earth I managed to set up the westell to do that :P

*digs out his documentation and pile of old driver cd's*

[greg elmassian]

It seems that the gateway and dns for his router is wrong...
So what is the network:

cable modem > router/ap > laptop/pda ?
Please identify the make and model of the modem and the router...

If 192.168.1.254 is the ip address of your cable modem (or dsl modem) than things are probably ok, but not really optimal..

I have a linksys router, and 2 linksys access points hooked to it, and a windows 2000 server. the server is the dns server and dhcp server. The linksys router is the gateway. All devices including my pda use dhcp, and automatically get the dns addresses... makes it simple.

If you have to enter dns addresses manually, you could set it up better. Normally, if you do not have a REAL server, the router serves up ip addresses and dns addresses to hard wired devices, and to the access points, which then give them to the wireless units...

if your router is not set up right, then it does not inherit the dns addresses, and cannot pass them on to your devices...

Send more info, and we can solve your problem.

Greg

[calenth]

Modem is a westell wirespeed model a90-210030-04. I just went on the web and found the page for that device here (http://www.westell.com/pages/products/product_detail.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1416277096.1060569763@@@@&BV_EngineID=fadchjjiikegbedcfkcfkcfin.0&gov=&category=Customer+Networking+Equipment&content_oid=23113), I think.

router is a dell truemobile 1184 wireless broadband router, model WX-6215D.

They're connected laptop(wireless) & desktop(ethernet cable) & pda (wireless) into --> wireless router into --> modem --> dsl out to the marvelous world of the internet.

I'm still trying to figure out the address of the modem. After reading Drachen's post above & the wirespeed's page (it didn't even occur to me that the wirespeed could also be functioning as a router until reading this thread. As soon as I finish transfering some files to the laptop I'll try turning off DHCP on the wireless router & see if that helps.

Again, thanks much for your help, everyone, and for helping me slog through this all. At least I'm learning something :P If there's any other information I can post, just tell me how to find it out and I will (ipconfig /all was about the limit of my powers; figuring out how to ping on the handheld was a titanic battle of will with fate).

[n2ifp]

I agree, the DNS doesn't look right either

[calenth]

Originally posted by n2ifp
I agree, the DNS doesn't look right either

I used copy/paste (mark, copy) from the msdos window to copy those numbers into here. They may be wrong, but they're precisely what the computer told me.

[Drachen]

NAT is the process of turning one address into another. The type of NAT most consumer hardware uses takes one real IP address and lets many users use that one address. What your router calls the "WAN IP address" is the outside NIC (network interface card) and points towards the ISP. The other NIC points inside and connects to your internal network. That network is usually 192.168.x.0, where x is 0 through 254. The router will transparently use the one address it gets from the ISP and let every computer on the network onto the Net with it. The common internal network default for most routers is 192.168.1.0. The 192.168.2.0 was a clue that you had something unusual going on.

Here's what I (and apparently okmozart) think is going on: You have the Westell in front of your ISP with a real IP on the outside. The inside network gets 192.168.1.0 on the inside NIC. I think it's pretty safe to assume that the internal address of the router is 192.168.1.254, because that's the default gateway (router out to the Net) of the Dell.

Now you put the Dell in with the outside NIC to the Westell, so the outside NIC got an address from the Westell, but the Dell thinks that side is the ISP! The inside NIC on the Dell is now giving you yet another network, 192.168.2.0. Now you go from 192.168.2.0 through the Dell to 192.168.1.0 then through the Westell to the Internet.

Technically this should all still work correctly. At work, I have about 5 subnets including DMZs and such and everything still works fine. My big question is about DNS. Right now, your clients are pointing towards the Dell, which is pointing towards the Westell. I don't know if these routers actually have DNS servers on them or what, but usually consumers just use the DNS servers of the ISP they are on. That might be the simple answer right there. Just find your ISP's DNS servers and use them on the Clie. The primitive TCP/IP stack on the Clie just might not be able to handle all the weirdness.

What I was suggesting before was basically to turn the Dell around and have the inside NIC point towards the inside NIC of the Westell (on a switch with all your ethernet clients). Just do not connect the outside NIC (the one now pointing towards the Westell) to anything. This will basically turn the router into just a wireless AP. As long as the WiFi clients get default gateway addresses that point towards the Westell, it *should* work. As one of my old college professors used to say "famous last words".

[calenth]

Heh, update:

I managed to find the status page for my westell modem (it was at http://192.168.1.254/ ) and got info from there.


primary dns :
205.152.135.254
sun00cae.cae.bellsouth.net
Secondary DNS 205.152.0.5

Modems IP Addresss 192.168.1.254
Ethernet connected
USB locked


on the advice of a friend, I turned off DHCP routing on the modem. So things should be simpler now, at least. The desktop and lappie are accessing fine still. I've tried entering those same dns #'s into the handehld and no worky; may try to see if auto routing works now. Onwards and upwards.

[jackho]

Can you tell me your CLIE TCP/IP settings? Such as Gateway.

IMHO, DHCP is much simple then manual setup... Like me, I'm using router + AP, my CLIE connects to internet immediately (not need to have difficult setup procedure)...

[calenth]

Hrm. Bumping this thread again because never really did get problem figured out -- I had to leave town so had to let things die. I also ended up having to turn DHCP routing back on on both the modem and the router, because if I didn't then for some reason my laptop or my desktop became unable to access internet through the dsl connection.

Just to repost, here's the info from my westell DSL modem:
IP Address 68.154.152.95
IP Gateway 68.154.152.1
Primary DNS 205.152.135.254
sun00cae.cae.bellsouth.net
Secondary DNS 205.152.0.5
ns.bellsouth.net

And here's the info from my dell router:
WAN IP address:
192.168.1.1
DNS Server:
192.168.1.254
Gateway IP :
192.168.1.254
Device IP:
IP:192.168.2.1

If anyone cares to help me take a second shot at fixing this thing I'd appreciate it, if not, I understand.

[okmozart]

The device IPs are set for different "pools". I'm not sure why the IP addresses seem to be random.

For example, here is how my home router is set:

LAN: (network side of router)
IP address: 192.168.2.1
Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
DHCP Server: Enabled

WAN: (modem side of router)
IP address: 192.168.1.2 (this address was assigned to the router by the DSL modem)
Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.1.1 (this is the modem address)
DNS: 192.168.1.1
---------------------------------
The router should assign IP addresses as follows:
192.168.2.1 (router)
192.168.2.2 (first device address requested)
192.168.2.3 (second device address requested)
192.168.2.4 (third device address requested) ,....

Your addresses assigned either by the modem or the router are not logical unless they are set to "user defined" then anything could be possible.

You might call Dell and ask why the weird settings.

Sorry I'm not more help, it just doesn't look right.

Greg