Save me from the darkside!

[T1000X]

I'm afraid I'm being tempted by the darkside, folks. In this case the darkside is the PPC camp. One of my buddies at works recently picked up the HP iPaq 2215, and I fell in love with it. It is smaller than my TG50, has more RAM, dual expansion slots, Bluetooth and the new PPC OS. I wouldn't completely abandon the Sony and Palm groups, because I plan on holding onto my TG50. Please, give me legitimate reasons why I shouldn't get the 2215! Thank you!

[ballistic]

Check out this (http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13541&highlight=switch+ppc) thread.

[cloudless]

The real question is, do you really need a better device at all? If your current PDA is working well enough for you then you probably don't need a new one. If the new device significantly gives you more convenience and make you more productive, then go ahead and buy one. Otherwise, stick with your current one until there is something out there that you can't resist.

In my opinion, the biggest difference between the TG50 and the iPaq is the built-in keyboard. If you like to use the keyboard then you shouldn't switch.

[Jeffry]

remember: your buddy's PPC does not have built-in backlit keyboard and although the screen of your TG50 is smaller, it has more pixels than the PPC. Thus, displaying pics and playing back movies is more crisp and clear on your CLIE.

[cloudless]

Originally posted by Jeffry
it has more pixels than the PPC. Thus, displaying pics and playing back movies is more crisp and clear on your CLIE.

The quality of a screen depends on more than just the number of pixels. Screen brightness, contrast, and color accuracy should be considered too. By the way a retangular shaped screen is more suitable for movie viewer compared to the square shaped screen on TG50. Take a look at the iPaq 1910 screen and you'll understand how much difference it can make. By the way, PPC supports more efficient video codecs including DivX.

[n2ifp]

Well that's settled, get a PPC :D!

[T1000X]

Thanks for all of the input. Yes, cloudless, I know of the Pocket DivX capabilties and that is one reason why I want to switch. I've had a Compaq iPaq 3835 before and I liked it. The main reason why I came back to the Palm OS was I was invested in it. That is also why I don't plan on completely abandoning the Palm OS, and why I will hold onto my TG50. One thing I like about the PPC is it has a lot of cool hardware add-ons like a TV Tuner, FM Radio and others we are still dreaming about.

As for the thumboard, as much as I've grown to love it I can live without it. In fact, I've realized something. Soon as things stand the only way to get Graffiti will be to get a PPC with it's Block Recognizer.

[Jeffry]

you'll be back

[jcgarciat]

I've been in the dark side and I can tell you (IMHO) that I wont be there again, I had a Toshiba e310 and sold it a month later after buying it, reasons?

a) Memory available is the half the memory you have, beacause the PPC OS uses it as RAM (remember that a Docs2Go doc is much smaller than a word document, in fact you need many extra space so the more ram feature is questionable).
b) every time you open an app, if you close it, it's not removed from memory, so if you open app, after app you'll have to shut them manually thru some kind of task manager (the PPC became slower and slower with time, until you shut down all the programs in memory) (BTW, I dont know if this "bug" is still in PPC2003)
c) Clie Rules.

that's my n cents...

[yadayadayada]

What you need to realize is obvious, yet obscure to those "in the market" for a new PDA. Hardware / specs must always be seperated from the OS. Because I overanalyzed this & what the PPC could do multi-media wise, I bought a Dell Axim. Well...the same Axim is currently up for bid on e-bay. To me, ppc is just not intuitive. I was burned out on it in 1 months time. I hated it. It feld 'cold' to me. It's the same response that leads me to prefer to use my Mac over my Windows box (even though I have both running within 4 feet of each other.) I can't put it in words, but I know I like the palm os better. Maybe you have to experience a PPC to know for yourself, but if you do, you'll be back.

[hypachris]

<< I'm afraid I'm being tempted by the darkside, folks. In this case the darkside is the PPC camp. One of my buddies at works recently picked up the HP iPaq 2215, and I fell in love with it. It is smaller than my TG50, has more RAM, dual expansion slots, Bluetooth and the new PPC OS. I wouldn't completely abandon the Sony and Palm groups, because I plan on holding onto my TG50. Please, give me legitimate reasons why I shouldn't get the 2215! Thank you! >>>

What advantages does the PPC have over your TG50? Let's list what you point out:

PPC has

1) More RAM? Remember 8 megs on a Palm is like 32 megs on a PPC, or 16 megs on a Palm is like 64 megs on a PPC. Program sizes are a lot smaller on Palm, and less bloated

2) New PPC OS? There is nothing special about PPC 2003. It's still a flawed OS, with the same problems as the previous OS on the most part. It's been highly criticized, especially by the Washington Post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A45993-2003Jul11&notFound=true

3) Bluetooth? Your Sony has this too....

Now, I'm not a Palm OS advocate....I don't believe in brand loyalty at all. Get whatever fits your needs. DON'T just get a PPC just because you think the gadgets and multimedia is cool....because once you're finished having fun playing with it after 3 months, your PPC will just be in a drawer. All the bells and whistles will be boring after a while, and only the basic PDA functions you'll stick to. PDA's are not meant to be expensive toys, they are meant to be PDA's in the long-term. But do understand, this is why Palm OS succeeds in the PDA department.....it gives people what they *need* rather it being an expensive toy.

Until Bill Gates figures this out, Palm will continue to dominate PPC. I would never consider PPC until they improve the OS one day, make it more intuitive and less clumsy.

[cloudless]

Originally posted by jcgarciat
I've been in the dark side and I can tell you (IMHO) that I wont be there again, I had a Toshiba e310 and sold it a month later after buying it, reasons?

a) Memory available is the half the memory you have, beacause the PPC OS uses it as RAM (remember that a Docs2Go doc is much smaller than a word document, in fact you need many extra space so the more ram feature is questionable).
b) every time you open an app, if you close it, it's not removed from memory, so if you open app, after app you'll have to shut them manually thru some kind of task manager (the PPC became slower and slower with time, until you shut down all the programs in memory) (BTW, I dont know if this "bug" is still in PPC2003)
c) Clie Rules.

that's my n cents...

a) In fact you can store more data than half of the available RAM. The Pocket PC OS simply allocates less memory for running programs (less mutiple tasks running at the same time)

b) Memory managment is automatic on a PPC. The OS closes unused programs automatically when it runs out of memory.

c) Not always, remember the first Clie?

[Brokken]

I just needed a good graphing calculator and Palm had the better one at the time. :)
Speaking of... Version 4.0 of PowerOneGraph should be out real soon! :)

[aaronchow]

Originally posted by jcgarciat
a) Memory available is the half the memory you have, beacause the PPC OS uses it as RAM (remember that a Docs2Go doc is much smaller than a word document, in fact you need many extra space so the more ram feature is questionable).
b) every time you open an app, if you close it, it's not removed from memory, so if you open app, after app you'll have to shut them manually thru some kind of task manager (the PPC became slower and slower with time, until you shut down all the programs in memory) (BTW, I dont know if this "bug" is still in PPC2003)


I'm not trying to start a war here, but I hope I can clear some of your points...

Basically, the memory of PPC is dynamically divided between run-time memory and storage memory (the same as PalmOS's heap memory and regular RAM). And both of the platforms can run a program directly off the RAM, but extra RAM is often needed because often time they need to calculate, run, and store any execution requests as required by the user (unless you expect the program to do absolutely nothing).

For example, when you surf the web with your CLIE, your browser has to request additional heap memory space because it needs to cache the page you want to see, and it will request even more space when it generates that page to display properly onto your CLIE.

PalmOS's heap memory space is static (doesn't change), so if it runs out of heap memory space, it will crash or behave wiredly. But since PalmOS only lets you to run exactly one program at a time (I'm not talking about hacks, DAs, MP3s here), often time this will not be a problem because 1MB is enough for regular programs.

But a powerful program will definitely get screwed by this, so either they have to use this space efficiently or they have to find other ways to bypass this limited space.

On the other hand, PocketPC OS generates this heap memory space dynamically, which means it will give you more space when you need more space.

This is a good news for power-hungry program developers because they don't have to worry too much about running out of memory, and this is one major factor why PocketPC programs is more powerful than regular PalmOS programs in general.

And, as I've said, both of their ways have their own advantages and disadvantages, so I'm not praising either side of it.

==================================

Moreover, PocketPC OS is multi-threaded, so you can run more than one programs at the same time. But since Mircrosoft poorly implements this useful features (with such awful usability issues), it really confuses a lot of PPC owners.

When you want to close a program, PPC OS doesn't allow you to close it (how ironic?). So when you use your stylus and tap on the little "X" button, what it really does is that PPC OS automatically minimizes the program for you, so that it will quickly prompts out when you need it later. This is not a problem when you have one thousand megabytes of memory to spare, but, for me, it sure is.

When a program is minimized, the program still acompany a certain amount of available run-time memory. And if you find your PPC running slower and slower, it means that there are too much minimized programs running in the background and wasting your resources.

So, how does Microsoft respond to this issue? Absolutely nothing (I think our user will like it because blah blah blah...).

But, luckily, other 3rd party developers introduced other intuitive ways to bypass this "smart minimizing features." For example, Omega One introduces a program called "Battery Pack" that offers a work-around. Within this program, it has a plug-in that will replace the upper-right-hand corner's "X" button with their own. So you can terminate a program, or you can bring out a list of background programs to either switch or close any programs with ease.

Also, multi-threading is one feature that many PalmOS users are long for, so I don't understand why you hate this feature so much.

And am I the only one who use both platforms and find themselves shine in their own way here?

[vansouza]

You can not serve two masters, either you will love the one or hate the other....:eek:

[aaronchow]

Originally posted by vansouza
You can not serve two masters, either you will love the one or hate the other....:eek:

What's wrong with loving Jenny and Mary at the same time? Oops, no body hears that... :p

[jconaway99]

I had a palmos device, went to a ppc, now I am back. Enough said.

[exiii]

I've been tempted in the last few weeks. I darn near dropped the cash on the h1940 earlier this week. The only thing that stopped me was syncing to outlook at work. I don't want my PDA to be part of the hive mind and I was a bit unsure of how this would work. So I finally decided to give the box back to the salesperson and do some web searches on the subject first.

In playing with PPCs, I always come away thinking that the applications are just clunky. I'm not talking bloated, or slow, or any of those common complaints. I mean clunky like using one of those huge kids trackballs on your home computer, or like trying to write up a report using one of those really big crayons. Everything is so boxy. Every field is a box - "now, stay in the lines children". I don't know - sounds weird, but it's something that bugs me.

But keep in mind, I don't really give a dim wit about game emulators or watching matrix trailers on my PDA. I do like maps though, and with the 320x320, maps look better on my Clie.

Now if I could just find my ideal PalmOS unit. It still seems to be my T615 or a T665, but I might have to do with a TG50 (I hate the cover and lack of grafiti area).

[T1000X]

Wow. Thanks for all of the info, both for and against. Like I mentioned, I will not abandon the Palm OS and plan on keeping the TG50 as a backup device. What tempts me most about the iPaq 2215 is it's small size (roughly same width and thickness as the TG50, but it is shorter length wise) and it has dual expansion slots. I do know of the shortcomings of the Pocket PC, but I also had a damaged Compaq iPaq 3835 that would hard reset on me after adding the CF Sleeve. It burned me for a while, but I'm willing to try the PPC OS again. I actually enjoyed using the Palm OS, and I plan on setting it up so I can sync both my TG50 and iPaq 2215 if I get it to Outlook.

[cloudless]

Originally posted by jconaway99
I had a palmos device, went to a ppc, now I am back. Enough said.

Technologies are changing every day. Palm OS and PPC keep making advances to fill different needs. Just because you are back to Palm OS now doesn't mean you won't go back to PPC one day.

My first PDA was a PalmPilot Personal, then I switched to a Windows CE device, then went back to Palm, then Pocket PC 2000, later upgraded to Pocket PC 2002, and my current PDA is the NX70V. I just pick whatever that is best for me at the time.

Don't assume what is right for you is right for everybody. Tell them why you like the platform and let them judge.

[obokaman]

This is just to show everyone that I REALLY wanted to switch to PPC:

I've had (in this particular order):

- Palm IIIc
- iPaq 3650
- Palm m505
- Toshiba e570
- Clie N770 (European ver. of N760)
- HP Jornada 568
- Palm m515
- ... (no PCC here, hurted by Jornada's dust issue)
- Clie T625
- Packard Bell 2060 (aka NEC PocketGear)
- Clie SJ22
- Dell Axim X5 Advanced (two months ago)
- Tungsten T/2

IMHO Palm looks not so appealing until you get one, whilst PPC looks so apealing (and tempting).. until you get yours.

Hope I've learned the lesson at last ;-)

Cheers

[jconaway99]

Originally posted by cloudless


Don't assume what is right for you is right for everybody. Tell them why you like the platform and let them judge.

I don't believe I implied that my experience is the be all, end all for everyone. I thought it was obvious that I was just relating my experience. It seems as though it is a common occurence.

[RD100]

Originally posted by obokaman
This is just to show everyone that I REALLY wanted to switch to PPC:

I've had (in this particular order):

- Palm IIIc
- iPaq 3650
- Palm m505
- Toshiba e570
- Clie N770 (European ver. of N760)
- HP Jornada 568
- Palm m515
- ... (no PCC here, hurted by Jornada's dust issue)
- Clie T625
- Packard Bell 2060 (aka NEC PocketGear)
- Clie SJ22
- Dell Axim X5 Advanced (two months ago)
- Tungsten T/2

IMHO Palm looks not so appealing until you get one, whilst PPC looks so apealing (and tempting).. until you get yours.

Hope I've learned the lesson at last ;-)

Cheers

Do you use just one PDA at a time ?&nbsp;Or do you&nbsp;sometimes carry the&nbsp;PPC and&nbsp;sometimes the&nbsp;Palm ?

Also, now that you've owned a Dell for 2 months, do you think an iPAQ 2215 is potentially a better PDA because it is a little smaller ?&nbsp; To me, the size and weight would matter. I may buy either the Dell or the 2215, and I am just wondering what other people think about the size and weight of the Axim.

:D :D :D

[fishbulb]

I had a Pocket PC before coming back to Palm OS. I found the PPC OS to be more cumbersome, and harder to navigate. Memory management was difficult. I wouldn't go back to PPC.

[ksjenkins]

Originally posted by obokaman
This is just to show everyone that I REALLY wanted to switch to PPC:

I've had (in this particular order):

- Palm IIIc
- iPaq 3650
- Palm m505
- Toshiba e570
- Clie N770 (European ver. of N760)
- HP Jornada 568
- Palm m515
- ... (no PCC here, hurted by Jornada's dust issue)
- Clie T625
- Packard Bell 2060 (aka NEC PocketGear)
- Clie SJ22
- Dell Axim X5 Advanced (two months ago)
- Tungsten T/2

IMHO Palm looks not so appealing until you get one, whilst PPC looks so apealing (and tempting).. until you get yours.

Hope I've learned the lesson at last ;-)

Cheers

T1000X - Sorry man you are&nbsp;LOST!!!

obokaman - Do you have any money left. You've left a trail of PDA's, &nbsp;can you find your way out of the woods?? You have had 12 PDA's in the last, what 5 years.... I've had 6 in my career... Casio BOSS (with a whopping 64kB), HP 200LX, Palm Personal, Palm III, Palm Vx, N760, in the last 14 years.... WOW!!!&nbsp; You should write reviews of all your PDA trials... From all that I've heard and read PPC is a syncing nightmare....:(

Stick with the KISS method... PalmOS works... I don't want a (Microsoft:p) PC in my pocket, I want something simple (with lots of cool features), that works, enough said.. :D

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

[T1000X]

ksjenkins, I'm not lost. I'm just permanently misplaced and disoriented.

I cannot think everyone enough for all of the detailed information for, against and with the Pocket PC Operating System. I'll admit, even with it's damaged hardware (bad ROM image) I thoroughly enjoyed using my Compaq iPaq 3835. I'd probably still be using it if it had not hard reseted on me three times within three days.

There are some advantages to the Pocket PC OS, and there are advantages to the Palm OS. Both have their strengths and I feel that in order to get this Pocket PC thing out of my system, I need to try one for a while. All I need to do is setup my Pocket Mirror Pro for Outlook and synchronize with it. I can't say I won't stay with the PPC OS, but I am sure I will stay with the Palm OS no matter what. Like I've mentioned before, I'm vested in it with the software and ebooks I've purchased. With over $200 spent in software, you wouldn't just abandon it either, right?

[ksjenkins]

Originally posted by T1000X
ksjenkins, I'm not lost. I'm just permanently misplaced and disoriented.



Try&nbsp;a&nbsp;double&nbsp;Espresso then two pints of Guiness that should straighten you out! :D

&nbsp;

Since you seem to have tried both PalmOS and PPC equally. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each? :) Just out of curiousity, since I'm married with children, I don't have the $$$ to try every new platform that comes down the pike! :D

[obokaman]

Originally posted by RD100


Do you use just one PDA at a time ?&nbsp;Or do you&nbsp;sometimes carry the&nbsp;PPC and&nbsp;sometimes the&nbsp;Palm ?

Also, now that you've owned a Dell for 2 months, do you think an iPAQ 2215 is potentially a better PDA because it is a little smaller ?&nbsp; To me, the size and weight would matter. I may buy either the Dell or the 2215, and I am just wondering what other people think about the size and weight of the Axim.

:D :D :D

Just one PDA at a time. Always sold the previous one shortly after getting a new one.

The Dell is the better PPC I've had. It's plenty fast and reliable, and battery life is very good. Still, I don't like the OS.
As per 2215: after dealing with HP Europe for the Jornada's dust issue, I don't think I'll buy HP again.

[obokaman]

Originally posted by ksjenkins

obokaman - Do you have any money left. You've left a trail of PDA's, &nbsp;can you find your way out of the woods?? You have had 12 PDA's in the last, what 5 years.... I've had 6 in my career... Casio BOSS (with a whopping 64kB), HP 200LX, Palm Personal, Palm III, Palm Vx, N760, in the last 14 years.... WOW!!!&nbsp; You should write reviews of all your PDA trials... From all that I've heard and read PPC is a syncing nightmare....:(

Stick with the KISS method... PalmOS works... I don't want a (Microsoft:p) PC in my pocket, I want something simple (with lots of cool features), that works, enough said.. :D
&nbsp;

I have sold all the PDAs before (or just after) getting a new one. I've lost some money (looks like I'm a geek) but got a lot of "experience".

I've had some other PDAs before those Palm and PPCs: Psion Organiser, Psion 3a, Psion 3c, Psion Series 5, Newton 2000 and others ...

Syncing PPCs is not that cumbersome.. if everything works out of the box (if not, you're sold)

[contrary]

Originally posted by cloudless


Technologies are changing every day. Palm OS and PPC keep making advances to fill different needs. Just because you are back to Palm OS now doesn't mean you won't go back to PPC one day.

My first PDA was a PalmPilot Personal, then I switched to a Windows CE device, then went back to Palm, then Pocket PC 2000, later upgraded to Pocket PC 2002, and my current PDA is the NX70V. I just pick whatever that is best for me at the time.

Don't assume what is right for you is right for everybody. Tell them why you like the platform and let them judge.

Take a look at this thread on a PPC board if you want to know some stuff about PPC 2003 and alarm reliability:
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/for...der=asc&start=0

I posted a link to this in the general thread as well @
http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=281373#post281373