iSilo, AvantGo and HandStory

[mdharris]

Using Avantgo now and happy with the ability to read content such as news and tech news.

Questioon I have is what are the main differences between the three?

Avantgo being very easy to set up and sync how difficult is this for iSilo and HandStory?

Will they refresh content at every sync like Avantgo?

Knowing Avantgo will eventually come out with hi-res what will set iSilo and HandStory apart from Avantgo?

What is compression differences (size) as far as content, Do you save alot of space with one or the other?

When Avantgo comes out with hi-res support how many of you will go back to Avantgo?

Thanks for any help, much appreciated......

[sebring]

I have used all three and here are my impressions of them. My experience with iSilo is not extensive, so may not be completely accurate. I'll rank them from 1 to 3 with 1 being best.

Ease of use: 1.Avantgo,2.Handstory,3. iSilo
Support for custom web sites: 1.Avantgo, 2.iSilo,3.Handstory
Available content 1.Handstory,2.iSilo,3.Avantgo
Screen presentation 1.iSilo,1.Handstory(tie),3.Avantgo
Memory requirements 1.iSilo,1.Handstory(tie),3.Avantgo
Price:1.Avantgo,2.iSilo,3.Handstory
Flexibility:1.Handstory,2.iSilo,3.Avantgo

Hires+ support:Both iSilo and Handstory
MS support:Both iSilo and Handstory
Integration with web brower for quick clipping site or image: Handstory only.

[PDH LA]

You get what you pay for! I've been waiting for Hi-Res + support from Avantgo since I bought my NR70V last May. To date, all Avantgo has done to update their software is release a buggy, limited-featured OS5 version.

I tried iSilo and have now permanently deleted Avantgo from my desktop and NR70V. iSilo only costs $18 and is well worth it. I now can catch up on all the news I need and I can use all of my beautiful 320x480 screen to view it.

iSilo rules!

[mdharris]

OK after messing more with iSilo I decided that is the app for me. I do have another question and that is do I have to do anything other than sync to update the pages daily? or do I have to convert them everytime I want them updated?

[Caleb_pearson]

I have used all three and believe that isilo is the best for me. the content looks great, and it is relatively simple to use *www.turcic.com helped a lot* anyways, that's just my experience.

[PDH LA]

Simply download the command line version of iSiloX - iSiloXC - you can get it here:

http://www.isilox.com/download/index.htm

You can use the task scheduler built into Windows to run this program and automatically update your web pages. I have mine set to update every hour from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday - Friday. This way, each time I sync I get the most recent version of my documents downloaded to my Clie.

[rldunn]

Originally posted by sebring
Support for custom web sites: 1.Avantgo, 2.iSilo,3.Handstory
Available content 1.Handstory,2.iSilo,3.AvantgoI'm surprised by these two ratings. I have never used Isilo for more than a brief trial; I've been using Handstory for the past few months, before that used Plucker for several months, and haven't used AvantGo in probably at least a year. But I have tried to keep up on the threads comparing the 3.

I'll start with the 2nd rating above. I'm surprised Avantgo wasn't tops in available content with Handstory last, since that seems to be a common complaint. I don't think Handstory has a whole lot to offer as far as Handstory-compatible sites listed on their web site, and when I last used AG, they had a ton of sites.

As for the custom web sites, with Handstory's ability to right-click on any website and have it synced automatically, I would think that would put them first in this category. Especially since it can also be set to grab most sites by just inserting a URL into the clip manager.

[PurpleMD]

Another option for webclipping and doc reading is Plucker

http://www.plkr.org/index.plkr

It is freeware and has a hires+ beta: http://hires.plkr.org/

I stopped using AvantGo because for all the space it took up I still needed a document reader! I haven't decided between HandStory and ISilo (registered both) but you can set up automatic updates on both, I believe.

[hherbzilla]

Like rldunn, I was also confused. I used AvantGo for a while but recently switched to Handstory. Although it doesn't have the same amount of "custom" channels that AvantGo does, it is ridiculously easy to clip any web site. Even better, anything you can copy (text, pictures, etc.) can be HotSync'd and viewed through Handstory on your PDA. I love this feature! If I'm reading through e-mails and there is a bit of info I'd like to keep for reference, I essentially just copy it and click the Handstory icon, and it'll be on my Clie at next sync.

There are a lot of great sites listed in this thread (http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1610) that you can clip with Handstory and view on your Clie.

When I was using AvantGo, I tried iSilo and Plucker but didn't like either of them. Now that I've found Handstory, AvantGo has been removed.

[gvtexas]

I've used all three, and have these comments to add:

AvantGo: used to be tops, but they've slowly stripped down, added ads (hate those...), reduce offerings, etc. The NYTimes version you get on AvantGo has only 3 or so sections...the one I'm pulling with HandStory (and used to pull with iSilo) has 7.

iSilo: if you want to take the time to learn all the settings, can yield the best results of the three. At the site already mentioned, www.turcic.com, you can get a list of 800+ iSilo-ready sites and go crazy. I could never get it to autosync reliably, even using command-line option.

HandStory: I recently jumped to this but like it a lot. Very clean, simple, and the custom clip feature (if the site is pda-friendly) is really easy to do. Also lets you clip text, html pages, images onto your Clie by either menu or right-click mouse menu. Very handy. I'm mulling on building a user-to-user site for HandStory, but am unsure of the userbase out there. I searched the Web deeply for custom clips people have posted, talk about the clip script language, etc., and there's *nothing*. Closest I came was in translating the parent page in Korea and discovered a bunch of custom scripts that users uploaded to the site...something the US version has yet to provide.

I am concerned about whether Namo (HandStory parent) will continue to put a lot of effort behind the product...seems so, but they seem more intent on pushing their other two flagship products, a web-editor similar to NetObjectsFusion, and another something that I forgot. Their parent site (www.namo.com) has an actual user forum, but does not include sections for HandStory. Interesting...

Anyway, I digress. If you're serious on content, flexibility, and staying away from the ad-based AvantGo, then I'd pick HandStory if simplicity is desired, or iSilo if you are serious about pulling non-PDA friendly sites...I think the iSilo "language" to do this is currently easier to deal with than HandStory's script editor (am planning to dive into that soon, so I might change my toon).

On another note, anyone figure out how to open a HandStory .hsc file and change it? Each time you make a simple direct script (add url, set depth, set colors), a small .hsc file is created. Seems like if one could open these, one could create a lot more direct clips quicker.

Gary

[wellsjs]

Never tried iSilo. I'm happiest, I guess, with a combo of Avantgo and Handstory. As much as I'd like to Ctrl/ Alt/Delete Avantgo, myYahoo channel is quite useful to me, logged into my personal settings like local movies. It gives by theater, show times and even a synopsis of the movie content. It also has decent news. Accuweather works on Avantgo and I can't get it to direct clip consistently with Handstory. For Handstory I like Wunderground Weather and Washington Times. Most of the other clips I've tried either are buggy or not of a high interest to me. I also do a lot of eBook reading with Handstory. So the two apps together give me most of what I want in today's PDA web environment.

[PurpleMD]

There is a freeware program called Showtimes which allows you to get movie times for a zip code. The instructions are very easy to follow to change the file so that you can get a week's worth of movie times.

If that's mainly what's keeping AvantGo on your Clie...you can let it go! ;)

http://showtimes.jrray.org/
http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?sid=24706420030130013007&prodID=2618

[hherbzilla]

Originally posted by PurpleMD
There is a freeware program called Showtimes which allows you to get movie times for a zip code.From the web site:
Important Note
Showtimes is no longer in active development. I am currently working on a new project to replace Showtimes and all my energies are directed at this new endeavour. No further details are available at this time. However, there are other good movie listing sites that you can clip, such as:
http://www.hollywood.com/avantgo/movies.asp?SearchZip=xxxxx&searchradius=15
(replace the xxxxx with your zip)

[PurpleMD]

Showtimes may not be in further development, but it works fine! I update every Friday and have the week's movie times and locations available. The program has a small footprint and updating the files is easy...it doesn't have a conduit, new pdbs are created when you run the getdata.exe

[NsM]

Originally posted by sebring
I have used all three and here are my impressions of them. My experience with iSilo is not extensive, so may not be completely accurate. I'll rank them from 1 to 3 with 1 being best.

Ease of use: 1.Avantgo,2.Handstory,3. iSilo
Support for custom web sites: 1.Avantgo, 2.iSilo,3.Handstory
Available content 1.Handstory,2.iSilo,3.Avantgo
Screen presentation 1.iSilo,1.Handstory(tie),3.Avantgo
Memory requirements 1.iSilo,1.Handstory(tie),3.Avantgo
Price:1.Avantgo,2.iSilo,3.Handstory
Flexibility:1.Handstory,2.iSilo,3.Avantgo

Hires+ support:Both iSilo and Handstory
MS support:Both iSilo and Handstory
Integration with web brower for quick clipping site or image: Handstory only.

Here is where I disagree:

Available content
Go to Memoware. 87 specific Handstory documents available. 202 specific iSilo documents available. Dunno what exactly you mean by "content"...

Screen presentation
Definitely *no* tie between iSilo and Handstory. I made some screenshot comparisons, which can be viewed at:

http://www.turcic.com/avantgo/compare-1.jpg

- Handstory doesn't seem to handle tables/columns well (see pic 2, compare to pic 4).
- Handspring's text display is fast; however, if the display contains images, scrolling becomes very sluggish. iSilo remains fast.
- iSilo's formatting is closer to the source (compare comment below image in pic 3 and pic 6).

Memory requirements
Not sure if tie. Main app isilo: 344Kb, Handstory: 271Kb -> Plus for Handstory. But, document sizes are smaller with iSilo. From the comparision of screen presentation above,

General-Anzeiger Bonn (pic 1+2, 4+5)
HandStory 2.3: 47Kb
iSilo 3.3 b2: 36Kb

Tagesschau w/ Picture (pic 3, 6)
HandStory 2.3: 487Kb (hi-res)
iSilo 3.3 b2: 440Kb (hi-res, pic compression on)

So if you download a lot of channels regularly, you will end up saving more memory with iSilo. But if you only read a few small channels, then you would probably save a few Kbytes with Handstory (due to its smaller main app size)

Cheers!

[sebring]

Originally posted by rldunn
I'm surprised by these two ratings. I have never used Isilo for more than a brief trial; I've been using Handstory for the past few months, before that used Plucker for several months, and haven't used AvantGo in probably at least a year. But I have tried to keep up on the threads comparing the 3.

I'll start with the 2nd rating above. I'm surprised Avantgo wasn't tops in available content with Handstory last, since that seems to be a common complaint. I don't think Handstory has a whole lot to offer as far as Handstory-compatible sites listed on their web site, and when I last used AG, they had a ton of sites.

As for the custom web sites, with Handstory's ability to right-click on any website and have it synced automatically, I would think that would put them first in this category. Especially since it can also be set to grab most sites by just inserting a URL into the clip manager.

I apparently wasn't clear on what I was rating.
Support for custom web sites refered to the ability to use logins and passwords to retrieve custom data like list of stock quotes, My Yahoo customized content, etc.
For available content I rank Handstory first because of the ability to create script clips and the ability to right-click and grab virtually anything on the web quickly.

[sebring]

Originally posted by NsM


Here is where I disagree:

Available content
Go to Memoware. 87 specific Handstory documents available. 202 specific iSilo documents available. Dunno what exactly you mean by "content"...

Screen presentation
Definitely *no* tie between iSilo and Handstory. I made some screenshot comparisons, which can be viewed at:

http://www.turcic.com/avantgo/compare-1.jpg

- Handstory doesn't seem to handle tables/columns well (see pic 2, compare to pic 4).
- Handspring's text display is fast; however, if the display contains images, scrolling becomes very sluggish. iSilo remains fast.
- iSilo's formatting is closer to the source (compare comment below image in pic 3 and pic 6).

Memory requirements
Not sure if tie. Main app isilo: 344Kb, Handstory: 271Kb -> Plus for Handstory. But, document sizes are smaller with iSilo. From the comparision of screen presentation above,

General-Anzeiger Bonn (pic 1+2, 4+5)
HandStory 2.3: 47Kb
iSilo 3.3 b2: 36Kb

Tagesschau w/ Picture (pic 3, 6)
HandStory 2.3: 487Kb (hi-res)
iSilo 3.3 b2: 440Kb (hi-res, pic compression on)

So if you download a lot of channels regularly, you will end up saving more memory with iSilo. But if you only read a few small channels, then you would probably save a few Kbytes with Handstory (due to its smaller main app size)

Cheers!

Available content: See my reply to rldunn.
Screen presentation: The difference between the clips you referenced are not significant to me (Subjective call)
Memory requirements: I grabbed a wide variety of web sites in both formats and found no significant difference in file size between the two.

I also might add that this was only my opinion from my own experience, and reflects what is important to me. You may very well find certain features and capabilities more important to you.

There are a couple of features in Handstory that I use constantly that are not available in either of the other products.
1) Right-click grab of a web site or image.
2) Scheduled updates (wish they had a few more options here).

Between Handstory and iSilo, there is a dramatic difference in ease of use in Handstory's favor. If it were not for turcic's web site, I may never have had the patience to use iSilo. I wish there were a similar site for Handstory, but I do use his urls for my Handstory clips.

[sebring]

Originally posted by PurpleMD
Showtimes may not be in further development, but it works fine! I update every Friday and have the week's movie times and locations available. The program has a small footprint and updating the files is easy...it doesn't have a conduit, new pdbs are created when you run the getdata.exe

I also was an avid user of Showtimes, but quit when the link to imdb movie descriptions broke. Has that been fixed? I replaced that capability and movie times with Handstory clips. When Showtimes was fully functional, I did prefer it's layout.

[jbarr]

I gave up on AvantGo, not at all because I don't like it, on the contrary, I used to use it a lot and really liked it. Problem is that here at work, our Data Center apparantly closed the port typically used by AvantGo, so whenever I try to sync, it fails. AvantGo just can't get a connection. Yes, there may be a work-around, but I didn't have the time to figure that one out.

Anyway, in the mean time, I switched to HandStory and haven't looked back. As mentioned here and in other threads, this is an excellent all-in-one program that really shines. It displays DOC files, memos, Web Clips, Images, and (proprietary) eBooks. Typically, programs that try to "do it all" tend to be weak in many areas, but I really can't find much weakness in HandStory.

That said, I emailed their customer support with a suggestion: Allow the Jog Dial to optionally zoom images in or out. Also, in addition to displaying images converted into .pdb format on the Desktop, I requested they consider allowing display of .jpg images and let HandStory look into the directory that holds pictures taken with the digital camera. These two features, for me, would let me eliminate AcidImage and/or Splash Photo.

Don't forget that all of these programs offer trial versions, so chek 'em all out and see what YOU like best.

[mdharris]

Can you use the turcic file in HandStory? Is there alot of options for web clips in HandStory?

[sebring]

Originally posted by mdharris
Can you use the turcic file in HandStory? Is there alot of options for web clips in HandStory?

Almost all of the urls in turcic's file also work in Handstory. The only downside, is you still have to install iSiloX on your PC to be able to read them, since he has packed them into an iSiloX file. There is also another site that has many of the same urls in an easier to use format for Handstory users. That is http://www.palmloyal.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=viewlink&cid=15

[PurpleMD]

Originally posted by sebring


I also was an avid user of Showtimes, but quit when the link to imdb movie descriptions broke. Has that been fixed? I replaced that capability and movie times with Handstory clips. When Showtimes was fully functional, I did prefer it's layout.

The link's not broken...I still get the occassional plot, but I didn't realize that most of them aren' t there! When you run the program, you can see it listing all the movies as if getting the plots, but only a few showed up in the database (I read the moviedata.txt file in the Cache folder).

I haven't had to programming since college and then it was Turbo Pascal or Fortran...but I tried looking at the getdata.pl...haven't a clue what to do with it!

I don't need the plots anyway...but I thought it was a cool addition to the program!

Think I'll try emailing the author...he might be nice enough to fix or let us know about his next release!

[PurpleMD]

Originally posted by hherbzilla
From the web site:
However, there are other good movie listing sites that you can clip, such as:
http://www.hollywood.com/avantgo/movies.asp?SearchZip=xxxxx&searchradius=15
(replace the xxxxx with your zip)

Can you get times for more than a day at a time? That's what I like about Showtimes...I can get as many days' worth of times as Iwant.

[tanker_bob]

I faced the same decision between Avantgo, HandStory, and iSilo when I ran out of RAM for Avantgo. I had tried iSilo a number of times, but found it overly complex for simple tasks. I ended up buying HandStory Suite, and haven't looked back. The integration into Windows is great. When I get up in the morning, I just right click the icon in the system tray, select Update All, Hotsync when its done, and I'm off and running! There are plenty of links available for news, etc. Others have pointed out the other thread here and some good sites w/links.

The integration of Handstory with right clicking web pages, images, and files to convert and Hotsync provides tremendous power and flexibility. For example, I wanted to read the State of the Union speach again the other day, so I just went to the White House website, right clicked that page, and clicked on Save to Palm. Done. It doesn't get any more convenient.

FWIW, I have a review of HandStory Suite 2.3 here (http://www.pdaavenue.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1721).

[hherbzilla]

Originally posted by PurpleMD
Can you get times for more than a day at a time? That's what I like about Showtimes...I can get as many days' worth of times as Iwant. Apparently not, but movie times are usually the same each day for an entire week. Plus, I sync every day anyway.

[gvtexas]

Originally posted by tanker_bob
When I get up in the morning, I just right click the icon in the system tray, select Update All, Hotsync when its done, and I'm off and running!

If you set each clip's update field to "Automatically once a day", when you turn on your computer in the morning HandStory will automatically run the downloads...no need to do the right-click-manual thing.

Gary

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by gvtexas


If you set each clip's update field to "Automatically once a day", when you turn on your computer in the morning HandStory will automatically run the downloads...no need to do the right-click-manual thing.

Gary
Problem (?) is that my computer is always on and broadband connected (with firewall), so it would update the clips at midnight. Most new sites are updated between 5 and 6 AM. I'd love for Handstory to allow the selection of update time, but it's hardwired to midnight.

[gvtexas]

Originally posted by tanker_bob
Most new sites are updated between 5 and 6 AM. I'd love for Handstory to allow the selection of update time, but it's hardwired to midnight.

Right. Didn't know if you knew that. I've asked them about this and other technical issues, but haven't heard back yet. I *think* this will be a planned update, although not for sure. I do they have some ambitious plans, or so they've hinted, so I hope they continue the upwards trend. I am concerned, however, that the parent site Namo.com, does not seem to include HandStory with it's other products...but then, I don't know how HandStory fits (whether it's jointly owned or what).

Gary

[mdharris]

OK now thanks to some of you I decided to give HandStory a try but I am curious how different is basic version and the registered version? I hate when software developers do this because you do not get to experience the full app before buying.

[tanker_bob]

I found the demo virtually useless. I bought based on others' recommendations. Every feature I wanted to try in the demo came up with a dialog saying I needed the registered version to do that. I like the registered version more every day as I learn more about its capabilities. I can't get over how easy it is to get the results I want.

[sebring]

Originally posted by PurpleMD


The link's not broken...I still get the occassional plot, but I didn't realize that most of them aren' t there! When you run the program, you can see it listing all the movies as if getting the plots, but only a few showed up in the database (I read the moviedata.txt file in the Cache folder).

I haven't had to programming since college and then it was Turbo Pascal or Fortran...but I tried looking at the getdata.pl...haven't a clue what to do with it!

I don't need the plots anyway...but I thought it was a cool addition to the program!

Think I'll try emailing the author...he might be nice enough to fix or let us know about his next release!

Actually, I think he's abandoned it for over a year now and his web site even says he has quit developing it. The support link takes you to sourceforge. Good luck. Using Handstory, I get much more in depth descriptions of the movies than Showtimes provided, but Showtimes was great while it worked. I really liked the layout.

[PurpleMD]

There's a guy at SourceForge who has fixed the problem by changing the perl script. I figured it out from the thread and have my plots in Showtimes again!

[PDH LA]

Originally posted by tanker_bob

Problem (?) is that my computer is always on and broadband connected (with firewall), so it would update the clips at midnight. Most new sites are updated between 5 and 6 AM. I'd love for Handstory to allow the selection of update time, but it's hardwired to midnight.

This is precisely why I use iSilo!

I have set my windows task scheduler to run the command line version of iSiloX every hour. This way, I always have the most recent news items for each site every time I sync. Handstory's once-a-day update limitation is a deal-killer for me.

[khakiman]

Handstory beats everyone hands down:D :D
Fast download, easy to use, and updates often.

[PDH LA]

[i]. . .

There are a couple of features in Handstory that I use constantly that are not available in either of the other products.
1) Right-click grab of a web site or image.
2) Scheduled updates (wish they had a few more options here).

. . . [/B]

iSilo DOES have scheduled updates, and in fact, allows much more flexibility in this area than does HandStory.

iSilo has a free companion program - iSiloX - that has a command line version that can be run according to any schedule you like - you simply set it to run with windows task scheduler.

[mdharris]

OK I just bought HandStory..... Time to see if I like it. Not to happy with having to buy the software to fully see its potential. I always thought this was a bad way for developers to have menium trials and full blown purchased apps.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by mdharris
OK I just bought HandStory..... Time to see if I like it. Not to happy with having to buy the software to fully see its potential.

Hey, don't feel bad...I did the same thing! What frustrated me was how HandStory crippled all the preferences/settings...couldn't see how the program could set up things! Not to mention you couldn't create any clips in the demo, other than what they provided.

But...turned out fine.

Gary

[tanker_bob]

Same here. Folks here gave excellent recommendations. I haven't looked back.

[mdharris]

I will say the one major deciding feature I liked about HandStory was they make it for PPC as well. I know from my past I always go back and forth between PPC and PalmOS and who knows what the nest great PDA will be (currently NX). I try to keep most apps that are made for both OS's. Makes it easier to convert from one to the other.

[sebring]

Originally posted by PurpleMD
There's a guy at SourceForge who has fixed the problem by changing the perl script. I figured it out from the thread and have my plots in Showtimes again!

I tried using his patch files and just get error messages. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. All I did was copy his files over the ones in the Showtimes directory. getdata.pl and yahoo.pm. How did you get it to work? At least with the original files, I get everything except the plots.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by mdharris
I will say the one major deciding feature I liked about HandStory was they make it for PPC as well.
iSilo ist available for PalmOS, PPC, WinCE and Windows... and the converter is available for Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, MacOS (9 and X) and Solaris... so what?

[mdharris]

Oooops my mistake I guess iSilo is multi platform. I guess its good that I have that app as well.

[PurpleMD]

Originally posted by sebring


I tried using his patch files and just get error messages. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. All I did was copy his files over the ones in the Showtimes directory. getdata.pl and yahoo.pm. How did you get it to work? At least with the original files, I get everything except the plots.

After downloading the new files...
You have to download and install Perl from
http://www.activestate.com/Products/Download/Download.plex?id=ActivePerl
Installl it, reboot then run "perl getdata.pl -f -r"
He explains what all that means at SourceForge....

For me, I have much more room on my computer hard drive than my Clie RAM!

[sebring]

Originally posted by PurpleMD


After downloading the new files...
You have to download and install Perl from
http://www.activestate.com/Products/Download/Download.plex?id=ActivePerl
Installl it, reboot then run "perl getdata.pl -f -r"
He explains what all that means at SourceForge....

For me, I have much more room on my computer hard drive than my Clie RAM!

That's what I was afraid of, I've tried unsuccessfully to unzip the new getdata.exe file,that is supposed to work, hoping that would be all I needed. Sounds like the perl solution bypasses the getdate.exe file. The perl solution looks like it eats about 55mb of hard disk space. Thanks for the info. This site is really great for the info and people here.:)

[PurpleMD]

Do any of the movie sites you guys clip give you more than one day's worth of movie times? I'd like a week's worth, if possible. Otherwise, I gotta stay with Showtimes...and whatever the new version will be when released!

[sebring]

Originally posted by PurpleMD
Do any of the movie sites you guys clip give you more than one day's worth of movie times? I'd like a week's worth, if possible. Otherwise, I gotta stay with Showtimes...and whatever the new version will be when released!

I'm not sure a weeks worth of movie times is even available anywhere. I've set up Showtimes to go out 5 days and selecting movie times for a theater more than 3 days out and all you get is "Theater has not yet announced the times".

Hollywood.com can do two days, using Handstory (probably iSilo too), by increasing the depth, but it increases the download time considerably and I'm not sure how useful it is.

Projecting movie times is kinda like predicting the weather, the further out you go, the less reliable the information is.

Something more valuable, is including the theater phone number, so you can call and verify times. Most sites and Showtimes include this info.

[madmaxmedia]

iSilo is a great program. So is Handstory, I just happen to have more experience with iSilo. It's hard to compare these to Avantgo, since you can "clip" anything off the web with these.

You can do the same with customer Avantgo channels, but then you have size limitations, etc. iSilo has a lot of great options to allow you to control how files are created (removing tables, etc.)

[PurpleMD]

Originally posted by sebring


I'm not sure a weeks worth of movie times is even available anywhere. I've set up Showtimes to go out 5 days and selecting movie times for a theater more than 3 days out and all you get is "Theater has not yet announced the times".

You just have to edit the getdata.cfg file and add two more lines to get 7 days worth...seems to work for me. Maybe the theaters in my area have their schedules out earlier!

[jpeckster]

Tried iSilo and cant read the text that it pulls down.  My NX60 displays only half the line of text or just the top of the letter/text it downloaded.

What am I doing wrong?

[turcic.com]

What version of iSilo are you using?

[kstuart]

All of this special stuff for particular web sites is too complicated.

I found that most sites that have "PDA" links, had also limited the content available with PDAs.

With Plucker, you just use the regular URL and then you get images and formatting quite similar to a regular browser.

After setup, it is automated and I haven't had to think about it at all (unless I wanted to add a new site).

www.plkr.org

http://hires.plkr.org for the hires and hires+ file for all Clies (OS4 and OS5).

All for the great low price of zero.

[turcic.com]

kstuart, not too complicated for everyone I think. And I think you can also use iSilo and Handstory for regular web sites - and formatting looks definitely better with iSilo than Plucker. Though you are right, Plucker is free, definitely a plus.

[rrayl]

Does anyone know if Handstory works with Opera 7.0 browser? I tried it on both Explorer and Opera. the icon, "send to Palm" does not apppear anywhere I can see in Opera, whereas it appears on Explorer taskbar.

[tanker_bob]

How about when you right click on the web page? That's how I use it in IE. Clip to Palm and Save to Palm both show up on the right click menu.

[rrayl]

Tanker Bob,
I am afraid when I right click in Opera, I do not see either Save or Clip to Palm. It only shows choices unrelated to Handstory or Palm.
Ray

[tanker_bob]

Hmmm. If Opera is your default "viewer" for htm and html files, then I'm stumped. I don't use Opera, so don't have any more ideas to offer.

[rrayl]

Thanks for your thoughts. This is not the first time a website doesn't work with Opera and I have to use Explorer. Ironically, ClieSource is one of the them. Although I can view and browse the site, I cannot post without freezing up my browser. So I have gotten into habit of keeping both browsers open and have to shuttle back and forth as the need arises.
I am a newbie to the genre of iSilo, Handstory and Avantgo. I find it pretty hard to figure how to use them, particularly, iSilo (despite the mostly positive ratings of it). From what I have seen for Handstory, it is quite a bit easier to use. The only concern is that it has taken over my memo pad function on my Clie. I am not sure I like this.
Ray.

[tanker_bob]

You can go into Palm Preferences/Buttons and change it back. I did, because I use that button to bring Shadow Plan up. I don't care for automatic changes like that without asking. But, HandStory is easy to use and does everything I wanted. I've been very happy with it.

[rrayl]

By the way, I wonder if you experienced a message from your anti virus program when you "save to palm". When I do, my Norton anti virus program stops and gives message "malicious script detected" and it recommends stopping the program. When I allow it to execute, it seems to work OK and brings page to my Clie. The warning seems ominous and suggests possible virus contamination. Have you experienced this?
Ray.

[tanker_bob]

Yes, I have. By default, NAV intercepts all scripts since it has no way of knowing which are malicious. If you didn't expect a script to execute, then it's usually best to kill it. Since I know that HandStory uses scripts to capture, I selected to let the program execute them.

[freecia]

iSilo is great. I sort of wish I didn't have to move the files over by using the MSExport instead of just syncing. Other than that, it's worth the money. Especially with turcic's helpful links.

[tanker_bob]

BTW, turic's links work fine in HandStory. :)

[rrayl]

Thanks for your help. Will continue to try Handstory.
Ray.

[rrayl]

Is there any way to import PDF (Adobe) files into Handstory? If yes, how do I do it?

[rrayl]

I just found out from Handstory website that it cannot convert PDF files yet. they expect that ver. 3 will be able to convert PDF files.

[rrayl]

This is another newbie question. I downloaded ebook to try out but haven't been able to figure out how to get ebook into my Clie.

[sUnShInE]

Originally posted by freecia
iSilo is great. I sort of wish I didn't have to move the files over by using the MSExport instead of just syncing. Other than that, it's worth the money. Especially with turcic's helpful links.

You might want to read the new tutorial (http://www.turcic.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=288) I wrote the other day on how to automatically hotsync to MS. :)

[Griff]

*Drags topic back to top*

Two questions:

1. Why not Plucker? What do HS and ISilo offer that plucker doesn't? I know of the right click -> send to Palm piece in HS. And I've heard they may present content a bit better. What prompted you to register HS or ISilo over Plucker?

2. Are there any plans for a modem-sync for any of them, Plucker included?

I still keep Avantgo around because while I am between flights I can easily sync my AG channels using infrared and my GPRS phone.

Seems to me Avantgo will die a slow death, if it's not already, but this one feature is what has kept it on my Palm.

[PDH LA]

After hearing all the positive comments on Handstory, I went to their website to give it a try.

I'm really disappointed that Handstory Suite - which has all the cool features everybody is talking about - is NOT available for trial. You have to pay for it - you can only download the freeware Handstory basic.

This is a bunch of crap - why can't I download and try the version of the software that I would be purchasing? Sorry Handstory - you won't get my $$$$ if I can't try out the software first!

Bad policy!!

[turcic.com]

Originally posted by Griff
*Drags topic back to top*
1. Why not Plucker? What do HS and ISilo offer that plucker doesn't? I know of the right click -> send to Palm piece in HS. And I've heard they may present content a bit better. What prompted you to register HS or ISilo over Plucker?

Someone asked the same question in my forum...and my answer was:

Yes, Plucker is free and I still have Plucker running myself to see how it develops. But so far I must say that it has some deficits that make me use iSilo instead. Compared to iSilo,

- Plucker doesn't support cut&paste (something I also miss in Avantgo)
- Plucker is slower (especially for pages with image content)
- Plucker's autoscroll is choppy making it almost unbearable to read text
- Plucker's output is not as nice (no table/multi-column support, frames are screwed up)
- Plucker is buggier, especially the hi-res version crashes quite often
- Plucker needs a long time to load large documents
- Plucker chunks single documents into 32Kbyte files (let's say that you have an HTML document that's 200Kb. When you parse it it splits it up into 6 pages in the viewer (~32k each, etc etc). To view just one of those pages there is a load time of 10 seconds until you can actually begin to read and scrolldown on that one page).

---

I admit I am an iSilo fan.. but I still keep on testing other offline browsers as well.

[Griff]

Thanks for the response turcic...

Much of what you listed I don't worry about enough to shell out $20 for a non-mobile solution.

I do care about speed, and haven't seen a bad hit with plucker yet, but I am sure I will when I load large documents. I don't care for auto-scroll anywhere, so not a big concern.

I haven't noticed it to be buggy, yet, let's hope my luck holds.

As I suspected though, there aren't a slew of feature differences between the two.

Bottom line, whoever comes out with hi-res+ that supports updates from the device wins.

I noticed HandStory seems to indicate they are persuing this with their product...we'll have to see.

[BasilC]

I regularly use all four: AvantGo, HandStory, Plucker and iSilo. They all have their pros and cons:

AvantGo has some useful channels set up, automatic updates with every hot sync, and interactive functions.

HandStory is the most usable from within a web browser (or other pc program), it has the best (and most scrollable) images (though zoom would be nice). Cons: no control over the time of daily updates; terribly slow updating of file lists (a real problem if you have hundreds of maps, stored as image files, as I do).

Plucker: a bit slow on both pc and pda, but good presentation on the pda, no problem with compiling file lists like HandStory. Two big pluses: more control over update times (in theory, at least - I have to admit that in practice this is problematical); the ability on the pc to specify that a file should be launchable and the retention of launchability and category after updating (to make a HandStory file launchable you have to do it in RAM on the pda and it doesn't stick when you update).

iSilo: the only one able to display tables (though scrolling the tables is distinctly slow on my T625)

So no outright winner for me. You pays your money and you makes your choice (or in my case, I pay for all of them and use all of them).

[rrayl]

I downloaded Handstory basic and am wondering if there exists a text file somewhere that will help me learn how to use the program?

[tanker_bob]

Their manuals are on their website. I clipped 'em to my T665C to read at my leisure. I'll warn you, though, that the trial verison of HandStory is very lame, nothing like the registered version.

[rrayl]

Does anyone know if Handstory works with browsers other than Explorer? I have tried it with Opera and when I right click on a web page, the choices of "Save to Palm or Clip to Palm" do not appear, nor does Handstory icon on top taskbar. Explorer is my least preferred browser but will use it if absolutely necessary.

[Griff]

Anyone know what the differences are between Basic (free) and the full blown suite? I searched for a good 10 minutes and couldn't find a comparison...a list of what I get for registering.

[tanker_bob]

The free version does virtually nothing--it's worthless IMO. The registered does everything, and does it very well. Check out my review on PDA Avenue (http://www.pdaavenue.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89) to see most of the features.

[*YellowRose*]

Originally posted by tanker_bob
Check out my review on PDA Avenue (http://www.pdaavenue.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89) to see most of the features. Tanker_Bob~excellent review. 

I'm curious, though.  How do you feel Handstory compares to PalmReader as a e-book reader?  I love PalmReader's ability to invert the screen color, based on the surrounding lighting conditions.   I'd be interested in your perspective.

[tanker_bob]

Thank you. :) I've never used PalmReader, so unfortunately can't give you a comparison. HandStory won't invert the screen, though.

[gvtexas]

Originally posted by *YellowRose*
How do you feel Handstory compares to PalmReader as a e-book reader?

I thought I would use HandStory as my primary reader, but after getting used to it I chucked that idea. I think it's too limited and has too few features to be a top reader. One big disappointment was no horizontal scrolling. Support says it's on the list for future feature, but makes it limited for image/graphics, IMHO. I use it for clipping, memo handler, and some ebooks/docs. It is a clean, no-fuss program, and that's part of the attraction.

PalmReader is pretty good, but I only use it for ebooks purchased. Does handle fonts well.

You should check out the new features of the latest iSilo. I use it as my primary reader now, although I split the web site clips I pull between it and HandStory. The latest iSio (3.3?) now has function mapping to buttons. I have the datebook button set to up screen, address to down screen, up/down button to increase/decrease font, task button to access bookmarks, and the memo button to turn autoscroll off/on. Makes very handy for controlling the main functions I use while reading.

Another feature that iSilo does so well that other readers don't is handle wider content, and allow for horizontal scrolling. Necessary when dealing with images big enough to see detail.

My favorite discovery, however, is iSilo's ability to assign a function to a portion of the screen. iSilo divides the screen into 4 horizontal regions, each accounting for 25% of the vertical height. You can then assign what happens when you tap the stylus in each region. Here's how I have mine set:
Region 1 - Drag
Region 2 - one line down
Region 3 - one line up
Region 4 - screen down

The first one, drag, is the coolest. With this you can tap and hold the stylus on the screen, and drag the document in any direction. Really useful with large graphics or pictures (think comic strip big enough to read!).

Admitedly some of these are esoteric features, but just points out the extent to which you can customize iSilo.

Gary

[tanker_bob]

You can tap, hold, and drag images larger than the screen in HandStory. I do it all the time with maps.

Horizontal scrolling is one of the most annoying features in iSilo for me. I usually set it to whatever will bring everything on-screen. Why would you want to horizontal scroll every screen in a document or clip to read it line-by-line? I want everything on the screen so I can jog dial through it with one hand.

[turcic.com]

Originally posted by tanker_bob
Horizontal scrolling is one of the most annoying features in iSilo for me. I usually set it to whatever will bring everything on-screen. Why would you want to horizontal scroll every screen in a document or clip to read it line-by-line? I want everything on the screen so I can jog dial through it with one hand.

As you said horizontal scrolling is a feature - and as a feature it can be turned on or turned off.

Horizontal can be useful especially when you are looking at larger tables (like time schedules etc).

But if you don't want/need horizontal scrolling, you can either tell iSiloX so before you create the .pdb file (using the Table Tab->process table formatting->include only tables at levels 1 or greater for instance) or you can manually turn it off later in iSilo (options->display->tables->single-column).

Alex

[gvtexas]

Originally posted by tanker_bob
You can tap, hold, and drag images larger than the screen in HandStory. I do it all the time with maps.

I've never been able to get HandStory to clip anything in the way of a graphic/image and not resize it to the std. screen width. I even asked support about it, and they apologized that HS doesn't horizontally scroll! So apparently you're doing something they don't think can be done!

Why would you want to horizontal scroll every screen in a document or clip to read it line-by-line? I want everything on the screen so I can jog dial through it with one hand.

Not for text, for images. Retrieve a page of comics, and it makes them readable. Try that in Handstory and you can't read a single toon. Or maps (but you said you can do that in HS).

Gary

[tanker_bob]

You must have gotten the new guy/gal in support. When you right click on an image for HandStory in Windows and select Send to palm, it brings up a configuration and preview screen. You can select the size of the image on the handheld, as well as the color depth, category, hi res, compression, and destination (card or RAM). By default it fits to the screen. I usually make my maps 2x the screen size to make them readable. You can also crop the image right there, which is incredibly handy for cutting off web borders and stuff to save space. After syncing them and opening in the handheld browser, just tap, hold, and drag the image around. Works every time for me. I carry entire county and metro maps whenever I travel, all done this way in HandStory.

[*YellowRose*]

Originally posted by tanker_bob
I usually make my maps 2x the screen size to make them readable. You can also crop the image right there, which is incredibly handy for cutting off web borders and stuff to save space. After syncing them and opening in the handheld browser, just tap, hold, and drag the image around. Works every time for me. I carry entire county and metro maps whenever I travel, all done this way in HandStory. WOW!  Yet another use for HandStory I'd never thought of.  A map browser!  Way cool!!!    Have you posted any of your HandStory info at your website yet?  (I know you did a review, but your site's an excellent reference!)

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by *YellowRose*
WOW!  Yet another use for HandStory I'd never thought of.  A map browser!  Way cool!!!    Have you posted any of your HandStory info at your website yet?  (I know you did a review, but your site's an excellent reference!)

Thanks for you kind comments about my site. No, I haven't taken the time to put HandStory tips up yet. Actually, I hadn't thought of doing that until your note. Something for an upcoming rainy day (lots of those in Florida). :)

[Griff]

No one here misses being able to retrieve updated news and articles on the road, when not connected to a PC?

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by Griff
No one here misses being able to retrieve updated news and articles on the road, when not connected to a PC?
Not sure what you mean. HandStory will do that over your handheld mobile connection with no problems other than the download time if you have lots of stuff. I actually gave up updating on the road with Avantgo because it would take me multiple attempts in the morning to get their server to respond, wasting repeated calls from the hotel.

[Griff]

I know HS does SOME clips...but not all. Anything you custom define won't update.

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by Griff
I know HS does SOME clips...but not all. Anything you custom define won't update.
What do you mean by custom define? Do you mean scripts vs. direct clips?

[Griff]

I mean clips that aren't on their website. I'm not sure they are really scripts, because I just want them to to sync at regular intervals.

For example, ClieSource. Let's say I'd like to download the frontpage into HS. When I am at the desktop, it will sync fine, but it won't update while on the road because it's not a HS sponsored clip.

[BasilC]

Does anyone know if Handstory works with browsers other than Explorer? I have tried it with Opera and when I right click on a web page, the choices of "Save to Palm or Clip to Palm" do not appear, nor does Handstory icon on top taskbar. Explorer is my least preferred browser but will use it if absolutely necessary.

HandStory works fine with NetCaptor. This is presumably because NetCaptor uses IE as its basis. Despite this, I'd recommend a look at NetCaptor, which for me provides a better interface (though admittedly can't handle all pages that IE can).

[gvtexas]

Originally posted by tanker_bob
You must have gotten the new guy/gal in support. When you right click on an image for HandStory in Windows and select Send to palm, it brings up a configuration and preview screen.

You are correct, and that is indeed a neat feature (particularly with maps!).

I was talking about an image within a scripted or custom clip of a web site...and so was HandStory support. Currently you cannot scroll these images, and HS seems to shrink all images to fit the 320 width...or at least I've yet to encounter one that didn't.

I've looked over their scripting language, and don't see anything that would control image size. I believe the ability to pull a web site with an image wider than the 320 screen is coming from them, along with the option of horizontal scrolling.

On their Web site in their FAQs, they mention a version 3 coming in 3rd/4th quarter, so maybe that will provide enhanced image support within web clips.

Gary

[tanker_bob]

Sorry, I misunderstood. That sounds like Namo is dedicated to improving HandStory in meaningful ways. Very cool.

[gvtexas]

Originally posted by tanker_bob
Sorry, I misunderstood. That sounds like Namo is dedicated to improving HandStory in meaningful ways. Very cool.

Hey, no problem...until you pointed out this feature, I hadn't had a chance to play with it...

Now if they would only make their custom script language more friendly...

Gary

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by gvtexas


Hey, no problem...until you pointed out this feature, I hadn't had a chance to play with it...

Now if they would only make their custom script language more friendly...

Gary
I haven't had the energy to tackle that yet. It is a bit daunting...

[gvtexas]

Originally posted by tanker_bob
I haven't had the energy to tackle that yet. It is a bit daunting...

No kidding...

I mentioned to them that they should come up with an online custom clip generator where the user could provide some input and the generator create the custom clip...something halfway between what one can do plugging in a URL and their full-blown script, and they liked that idea. So who knows...

Gary

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by gvtexas


No kidding...

I mentioned to them that they should come up with an online custom clip generator where the user could provide some input and the generator create the custom clip...something halfway between what one can do plugging in a URL and their full-blown script, and they liked that idea. So who knows...

Gary
Good suggestion. Sounds like their plate is filling up. :)

[Cloud Ten]

Originally posted by BasilC


HandStory works fine with NetCaptor. This is presumably because NetCaptor uses IE as its basis. Despite this, I'd recommend a look at NetCaptor, which for me provides a better interface (though admittedly can't handle all pages that IE can).


I've done everything I could think of, and can't get Handstory to work with OPERA7. So, I decided to give NetCaptor a try and Handstory worked fine. After getting myself all switched over to NetCaptor, I discovered that NetCaptor won't work with NetVisualize! So now I have to choose between Handstory and Netvisualize. Maybe there's yet another browser that will support everything......:confused:

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by Cloud Ten



I've done everything I could think of, and can't get Handstory to work with OPERA7. So, I decided to give NetCaptor a try and Handstory worked fine. After getting myself all switched over to NetCaptor, I discovered that NetCaptor won't work with NetVisualize! So now I have to choose between Handstory and Netvisualize. Maybe there's yet another browser that will support everything......:confused:
Might I suggest MSIE 6.0? :D

[hherbzilla]

Originally posted by tanker_bob
Might I suggest MSIE 6.0? :D I made that move years ago and haven't regretted it. My experience has been that it just works, plain and simple. We're rolling out a couple of web-based tools at work, and the recommendation is always the same: use IE 6.

[gvtexas]

Originally posted by hherbzilla
I made that move years ago and haven't regretted it.

I liken the browser issue to Mac vs. PC: yeah, the Mac's cooler, but after a time, you get tired of fighting the incompatibilities with the rest of the world. Same with browsers: Opera, et al, have some neat features...but the world's coding sites aimed at the big kahuna...MS IE...for every day use, so why use anything else (unless you're willing to work around the problems)?