Why the UX-50 is the most revolutionary pda since the palm vx

[heydave]

I think Sony is headed in the right direction with the UX50. In fact, I think it's revolutionary. Here's why...

BACK IN THE DAY... when pda's first came out, they were basically personal information managers. They stored your contacts, calender, notes, tasks, etc. And people were happy with that. The pda didn't need a landscape screen or a keyboard.

WE'RE IN A REVOLUTION... people started to use their pda's for more things. People wanted keyboards, and bigger screens. But the clincher, I think, is the advent of surfing the internet with your pda through bluetooth (via cell phone).

WHY THIS IS A REVOLUTION... because now people are accessing the internet wherever they are, anytime. I just got hooked up with siemens s55 (bluetooth phone), unlimited data with tmobile (for $20/month), and a bluetooth pda. Now, I can surf the net and check email anywhere I am. Now, my pda is no longer a PIM, it's a portable internet device.

I might be pushing things, but I think this is where it's all headed. The PDA has got to become a personal internet device (w/PIM functions). It's got to have a functional keyboard and a screen that is fit for web browsing, yet is small enough to fit into your pocket. There isn't a device like this out there...

Until the UX50 came along. It's the next evolution in the pda saga. This is the moment when pda shifted from PIM to portable internet device (PID... I just coined that). It's a truly significant moment.

The more people get browsing on their pda's, especially through their phones via bluetooth, the more people will realize the current pda lineup is for a different generation. I've been looking for a pda that I can surf with... generous keyboard, bluetooth, landscape (480x320).

The UX50 has all these things... I still wish it was a bit thinner. I would give up wifi if it were .1 or .2 thinner. My ideal width is .5 . Other than the width factor, I think this pda is the first of a new generation we will see.

[Unregistered]

well, i think the phone cum pda was revolutionary. problem was, no one buys them. i think the hiptop was revolutionary, as was blackberry with their server. i think the ux is more of an evolution of something else that was already revolutionary. as always, sony takes something that is already around, and makes it better.

[UZI4U182]

I wouldn't call it a revolution. Sure, it's the first with integrated wifi and bluetooth, first with a mini-laptop design, but what's so revolutionary about it? The screen is smaller, the RAM situation is still bad, and the processor is a lot slower than other CLIE models, from what I gather.

[JackAxe]

My only gripe is the lack of music remote. :(

I think that over all the UX will perform much faster then the previous Clie's. I'll put my money on the HE over the PXA250 X(SLUG)SCALE found in the current Clie's. A PXA250 running at 500Mhz does not perform as well as the previous ARM running at 206Mhz. Plus the UX has a DSP, so tasks like music playback will not tax the main CPU.

<]=)

[ashVID]

It is different but nowhere NEAR revolutionary... there are already more powerful devices out and if you include the PPC world there are models that have had BT and WiFi for MONTHS. What about the Zaurus? Maybe Sony will release a killer OS6 Clie that is revolutionary but this is just another form factor that is more proprietary and will restrict development...I want no part of that revolution...


ash =o)

[Reggie]

Originally posted by ashVID
... there are already more powerful devices out ...

Just curious, which other devices are more powerful?

UX40/50 is another 'choice' for the consumer. Sony never marketed it as THE best one. All the models out there (regardless of brand and OS) target a specific group of people. Everyone who doesn't like the UX are just the group that it didn't target -- simple.

As for us power-users, as pdagal has said (http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20774), Sony can create a device that can suit us, but are we willing to pay for such a device? Also, would Sony invest on a device that only a handful will buy?

[cbulock]

Originally posted by Reggie


Just curious, which other devices are more powerful?

Most PPC's
Tungsten C
Possibly even all the OS5 Clie's, depending on the CPU preformance of the UX's.

[dannyboy]

I think ability to play videos at 30fps is pretty darn powerful (for a palm device that is, please don't ask me to go look at my laptop).

[dannyboy]

first palm device to offer landscape capability (think webpages, spreadsheets etc).

that's a revolution for me, though I won't go to the extent of calling it "the most".

[JackAxe]

Plus it's no longer using the SLUG PXA250 found in the current Clie's.

I wonder how UX graphics compare? It offers OpenGL so I would assume it's a faster graphics chip then the previous ones.

<]=)

[archangel]

This is going to be a very cool device. Its really targeted for the Japanese market and I think it will be a very good seller there. $699 in the US is probably going to limit its sales and it won't be a major seller here.

When it drops down in price I plan on making it my next PDA though. I've wanted something like this for a long time.

[zzarg]

I think it looks like a great option for people who've not jumped into business use of a PDA.
Will be interesting to see if it evolves in the same way the NR-NX-NZ did.... given that in 6 months time the UX will certainly be seen as another brave Sony experiment that was the gestation of a great product set

[jonrule]

I agree with Reggie when he says that each clie targets specific group, more choices for consumers and more money for Sony. I like the Form factor since it resembles the Gameboy SP and maybe gaming would be better on it. The built in wifi and BT is what a lot of us has been waiting for. Its definitely not revolutionary, but I like it. I have the NX70v now and right now debating with myself if I should upgrade to the UX. Definitely more portable than than the NX series. Anyway, the bottom line is that I'll wait for more reviews on it and hold on to my NX for a while. BTW, I have the Danger Sidekick , you can surf anywhere hotspots are not needed and though cumbersome, works well as a phone, and that, I believe borders on being revolutionary with a step in the right direction.

[robrecht]

Originally posted by dannyboy
first palm device to offer landscape capability (think webpages, spreadsheets etc).

that's a revolution for me, though I won't go to the extent of calling it "the most".

Handera 330 did this a couple of years ago with fully functional dual expansion and landscape/portrait orientation and replacable rechargable batteries as well.&nbsp; Of course it was B&amp;W&nbsp;so battery life was measured in dog years.

[Perdita]

What I want is the ability to log on to the internet from anywhere. And that ability's gonna be here soon. Just added a repeater to my home network so that I can surf from the deck. I love my NX70, but the more I look at the UX, the more I want to have one. Landscape is way better than portrait for surfing and even for reading.

Whoa, better stop. Can't really afford this. Maybe the UX50 in combo with OS 6 will be the one.

[abosco]

NO WAY! This is definitely not a revolution. Did everybody forget about the HPC line? Intermec 6651? All of those devices were so expensive, had all these great features, but didn't fly because nobody bought them. I think this Clie is going to be the same way. It's no longer convenient to hold in one hand. It is way too much like a laptop. Why didn't they call it a mini-Vaio? It's got the Vaio jog dial..

It's not the first with Wifi and Bluetooth. It's not the first with a landscape screen. It's not the first with a 320x480 screen (AND IT'S 3.2"!!). It's not the first with a keyboard. I would much prefer the new Zaurus with USABLE 128 MB and 400 MHz. There's another thing. "WHOA 104 MB!! Sweet, so how much do I actually get to use? 16 MB? BLEEP BLEEP BLEEPING BLEEEEEP BLEEPBLEEPBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP"

Sony is screwing themselves with these things. Put out a 320x480 TG50 with Bluetooth and dual slots at $399 NOW!!

[cykalan]

Originally posted by abosco
"WHOA 104 MB!! Sweet, so how much do I actually get to use? 16 MB? BLEEP BLEEP BLEEPING BLEEEEEP BLEEPBLEEPBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP"

Sony is screwing themselves with these things. Put out a 320x480 TG50 with Bluetooth and dual slots at $399 NOW!!

45Mb not 16Mb actually. Using the extra space for multimedia storage is a more useful option IMHO.

[Unregistered]

so everyone is in conclusion - this is not the most revolutionary pda since the palm vx. it's great, but not that great. time will tell how the sales go.

[Reggie]

Originally posted by cbulock


Most PPC's
Tungsten C
Possibly even all the OS5 Clie's, depending on the CPU preformance of the UX's.

This is what I don't understand. There are no tests yet made for the UX and a lot are saying is it's less powerful already. From my point of view, there are lots of things to consider to make a device powerful. I guess a lot are just measuring 'powerful'ness by the CPU speed. :(

[JackAxe]

The ball is in the UXs court when it comes to performance. Mhz is not a good way of measuring different CPU speeds <PERIOD.> An example is the PXA255 vs. the PXA250( used by NX/NZ, ) I've read that the PXA255 is %30-%40 faster then the previous XSCALE at the same clockspeed. Intel phased this CPU out in favor of the PXA255 because of it's SLOW/lackluster performance. Why SONY kept it in it's newer Clie's is a mystery to me. =P

XSCALE PXA250 200Mhz == SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

<]=)

[Jeffry]

The UX series a niche product. I consider it revolutionary but NOT revolutionary up to the point that people want to start buying it.

[UZI4U182]

Landscape is way better than portrait for surfing and even for reading.


Yes, I agree. But some things are also better in portrait mode, and I feel Sony screwed up for not adding screen rotation.

[dante21]

Nope it is just taking what has already been out there and just placed it in one package. If they placed a taser gun on it then that would be a revolution.

[ksjenkins]

Evolutionary? Yes.

I think pdagal mentions that Sony is dividing up it's Clie line:
UX - Communications Centric
NX / NZ - Media Centric
SL / SJ - General purpose PDA.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm addicted to the net. The UX fits my critera perfectly. I read an article about the ARM926 here: http://www.chipcenter.com/wireless/products_200-299/pr230a.html

I think the UX will be fast and have great battery life, it's all about balance. I think the UX's 123MHz processor will be at least as fast as the NX80's.

You all want an all in one CLIE go for the NZ90 it's the closest. Or wait for the next gen OS6.... With all the features you want it will cost as much as the laptop/camera/wireless phone that it will replace (>$2000 USD)

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need! (Rolling Stones)

[DennisOS2]

Originally posted by heydave
I think Sony is headed in the right direction with the UX50. In fact, I think it's revolutionary. Here's why...


Back in the early 90's, I used HP's DOS based PDAs (90LX, 100, 200). They included PCMCIA cards which gave all the storage you needed. It had a calendar more powerful than the Palm's. It had a database app and all the other accessories that the Palm has. It was also a 'clamshell' form factor. The screen was approximately the same rez as the Vx. Had a full QWERTY keyboard. No, it didn't have MM capabilities (this was the early 90's), but it had phenonmenal PDA capabilities. If anyone likes, I'll use my NX70 to take pictures of the 200LX to post <g>.

UX 40/50 ......... Revolutionary? More of the same ....... marketing at its best!

[heydave]

Alright, I'm posting again. I'm surprised so many responded to my initial post. After reading everyone's comments, I still think...

The UX50 is the most revolutionary palm since the vx.

Let me make a few clarifications.
1. It might not be a great device. ie., I was excited about the tg50 before it came out, but after seeing it I was disappointed.
2. It's not revolutionary in functions, ie., screen, wifi, bluetooth, etc.
3. It's not revolutionary in power, ie., processor, ram, etc.

Here's why I still think it's a major revolutionary product...

1. The paradigm of this pda is different. No longer is it for contacts, etc., the main function of this device has shifted to a personal internet device. I don't think many people are spending significant times surfing with their pda's yet (esp. via bluetooth phone), but when people do I think they'll want this kind of pda concept device. I've been surfing more, and this device is for the surfer. When surfing the net, you need a landscape view. And you (at least I prefer) a keyboard. Also, you want high-res. This is what the UX50 brings. So, it's revolutionary in the sense that it's concept paradigm is totally different.

2. There might have been other attempts to miniaturize a laptop, but they've all been big devices. This device is actually something that can fit in your pocket and is the size of a normal pda (maybe a tad bit bigger, but then again it doesn't need a case cause it covers the screen when it closes). In other words, this is moving the pda to more of a pocket laptop concept. It might not sell right now cause people aren't ready for it, but I can see major limitations in the current pda concept paradigm. Current pda's were designed around a contact, calender, tasks, PIM need base. The Internet will take over and PDA's will adapt. The UX50 is the first in this new generation, I think.

3. I admit to the major limitations of the UX50. It's still bulky. The graffiti on the side looks uncomfortable. It's too square-like. But I think we're headed in a new direction with PDA's. If this is a first generation portable/pocket internet device, then I think a third or fourth generation pocket internet device will look like:

fast processor and lots of ram
very thin (.4 inches)
foldable
landscape screen (high-res, more pixels than now)
can easily fit in pocket
keyboard
newest bluetooth protocol
wifi


I think we're headed to a place where we'll have people carrying these internet devices in their pockets with instant internet connection on. It'll be our dictionary, library, communication, etc tool. You won't want to leave home without it.

Now, does anyone agree with me? ... The UX50 is the first generation of a revolutionary product concept.

[Unregistered]

sure it's great and i might get one - but it's not all that revolutionary. heck, it's cool and its different only because it is landscape. that's why i might get it.

[Larry]

well, what if they release a landscape browser for us? then coupled with wifi card, won't we spend a lot more time surfing? what happens then to the so called paradigm shift?

[Unregistered]

If it's a minature laptop - then we won't need the desktop software, will we? Food for thought? Can you ever escape a desktop - that must be used in conjuction with a Clie? Try downloading and saving a bmg to AcidImage......without a desktop for starters. Try accessing Hotmail (although of course I recommend Yahoo Mail. Try preparing a Powerpoint presentation. The list goes on. Great and Exciting Yes - Revolutionary - No. Minature Laptop - No.

[heydave]

Actually I would like a landscape browser for the nx series (it's got a bigger screen than the ux). But then how would you type in your url's? The keyboard doesn't match a landscape view. Point: the NX series isn't made for web surfing. No pda was, until now.

[Unregistered]

simple - i'd just use grafitti anywhere. i mean, if i use the nx/nr in tablet full screen mode - how would i type in a url? same question, right?

[Unregistered]

don't forget that this is a look alike of the zaurus - which came first. so how can it be revolutionary then based on landscape web browsing?

[heydave]

Originally posted by Unregistered
don't forget that this is a look alike of the zaurus - which came first. so how can it be revolutionary then based on landscape web browsing?
What zaurus are you talking about?
http://www.zaurus.com/?reset

[Unregistered]

http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus7xx/index.shtml


this has been out for some time.

by the way, pocketpc can view browser in landscape....how do they type in the url?

[Unregistered]

http://www.brighthand.com/article/Next_Gen_Clamshell_Zaurus_Available


oh and by the way, you can use this in both portrait and landscape. maybe this is the one that is revolutionary......

[Unregistered]

what about the old psion (sp) series? same basic overall concept, and small. still not convinced?

[heydave]

Originally posted by Unregistered
http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus7xx/index.shtml


this has been out for some time.

by the way, pocketpc can view browser in landscape....how do they type in the url?
Wow, that zaurus is impressive. Thanks for pointing it out. I'd love to see one in person.

I think though the Zaurus wasn't built with the pocket internet device paradigm. It's more a mini laptop paradigm. Reasons being:
1. no built in bluetooth or wifi
2. too big to fit in pocket (4.7 by 3.3 by 0.9 inches). I can fit something up to .7 in my pocket comfortably, anything more is tough.

p.s., i've got a pocket pc that I browse with and inputing the url's is a big hassle. i want a pda w/a keyboard that's built for a landscape view.

[heydave]

Originally posted by Unregistered
what about the old psion (sp) series? same basic overall concept, and small. still not convinced?
Those old psions were interesting units. My brother had one, but it was tough fitting in his pocket. He'd carry it in his backpack. And it was more a mini-laptop concept vs. a pocket internet device concept. The difference being a pocket internet device concept has got to:
1. fit in your pocket comfortably
2. have everything ready to surf (ie., browser, bluetooth, etc.)

[Unregistered]

the zaurus has both a cf and sd (sdio) slot. that's why it is bigger. it operates in both landscape and portrait. it can use both wifi and bt cf. have you seen the cradle? it has 32mb usable. so it's a little bigger. if they took out the cf slot - it would be smaller. which would you prefer? no cf and smaller, or the cf option? the zaurus line is also the best selling pda in japan the last few years.

[Unregistered]

the nz90 does not fit into a pocket easily. i dare say either does an ipaq (especially one with a sleeve). so none of those are pocket internet devices? if not, what do you call them?

[Unregistered]

pocketpc have built in pocket internet explorer. wouldn't this be a key feature of a "pocket internet" pda? the dell sure doesn't fit into a pocket easily........

[heydave]

Originally posted by Unregistered
the nz90 does not fit into a pocket easily. i dare say either does an ipaq (especially one with a sleeve). so none of those are pocket internet devices? if not, what do you call them?
I call the nz90 a tank. :)

[heydave]

Originally posted by Unregistered
pocketpc have built in pocket internet explorer. wouldn't this be a key feature of a "pocket internet" pda? the dell sure doesn't fit into a pocket easily........
I'm not saying you can't surf the web with a current pocket pc or other pda. It's just that they weren't made for that originally. Meaning:
1. screen resolution's not that great (can't see much of the website)
2. screen's not landscape (though there are landscape browsers like thunderhawk)
3. no landscape keyboard (maybe some people like graffiti, but I hate it especially when I have to use it to input url's.)

[Unregistered]

i don't think the ux is made for surfing. it is great though for movies - it;s run rate of clips in great.

so what is an ipaq and nz? bricks? multimedia bricks? non-pocketable multimedia devices? that must be a new classification. heck all early pdas were not all that pocketable. there is nothing new about that.

oh and by the way, the ux40 does not have built in wifi, nor is there anyway it can even get wifi (unless there is some new sled out there). i don't think bluetooth only and websufing is all that fantastic.

the hiptop views landscape only - and has a scroll wheel and keyboard - for emails and internet. it is out already.

hey, is this night or morning for you?

[Unregistered]

i don't think the ux is made for surfing. i think it is made for movies - it;s run rate of clips in great.

so what is an ipaq and nz? bricks? multimedia bricks? non-pocketable multimedia devices? that must be a new classification. heck all early pdas were not all that pocketable. there is nothing new about that.

oh and by the way, the ux40 does not have built in wifi, nor is there anyway it can even get wifi (unless there is some new sled out there). i don't think bluetooth only and websufing is all that fantastic.

the hiptop views landscape only - and has a scroll wheel and keyboard - for emails and internet. it is out already.

hey, is this night or morning for you?

[Unregistered]

if not for the size and wifi capability - the zaurus's hardware design is bascially the same as ux

[gfunkmagic]

I don't think the UX50 is either revolutionary in concept or design. As others here have already stated, this particular design has been tried numerous times before from the early psions, HPC's, Zaurus etc. What may be revolutionary is the styling and size of the thing. However style like fashion and art are subjective and hard to quantify, I never the less think Sony's strength in styling and looks is what makes the UX50 stand apart. I think its powerful specs and diminutive size combine to give it that "double take" reaction I think most people had when they first saw it.

In any case, the UX50 is a different class of Clie designed to fit the needs of a different type of user. Those who don't fit this particular user profile probably won't like it, and it's not meant to. This is about Sony carving out another niche with its Clie line, not adding to its exsiting ones...

[cbulock]

I'm going to have to agree with the fact that this isn't revolutionary. It is probably one of the best jobs at putting different technologys together while making it stylish. But, nothing about the unit is revolutionary, it's all been done before.

[Jezlyn]

What may be revolutionary is the styling and size of the thing. However style like fashion and art are subjective and hard to quantify, I never the less think Sony's strength in styling and looks is what makes the UX50 stand apart. I think its powerful specs and diminutive size combine to give it that "double take" reaction I think most people had when they first saw it.

I definitely agree with this. I totally had that "double take" reaction, and I love the styling of this PDA. I appreciate that Sony is willing to experiment with different form factors for their PDAs. While other people may think me foolish for saying this, I still say that I will probably not ever buy another Palm-branded device because their PDA designs are boring. They're clearly more geared toward executive use (though that's not their only targeted market, I know), so their designs are a lot more conservative and simple. Sony was the first to come up with the "twist and flip" concept which is now being copied by other companies. And they continue to change their designs to get that "wow" factor. It works. :) I understand that there are quite a few people who think that the UX50/40 is ugly (but I don't understand why they think that), and Sony's designs are definitely capable of polarizing people's reactions like that (either you love it or you hate it), but in my experience, the people I know have had very positive reactions to Sony's stuff.

I'm going to have to agree with the fact that this isn't revolutionary. It is probably one of the best jobs at putting different technologys together while making it stylish. But, nothing about the unit is revolutionary, it's all been done before.

I don't know if I am "sold" on the idea that the UX50 is a revolutionary device yet, but let me play Devil's Advocate here... True, the form factor and maybe even the concept of the UX50 has been done before. But it may be revolutionary in the fact that it was done at the =right time=. I don't know for sure if it will catch on as a personal Internet device, but if it does, you can be sure that other companies are going to try to make their own version of it. Yes, people can do the same thing with their data-enabled phones (and in Japan they can do all this and more with their awesome phones), but this form factor seems to move toward making accessing the Net from anywhere so much easier. If you don't have a data-enable phone, you could use a local Wi-Fi hotspot, and vice-versa. You aren't "forced" to use a provider like T-mobile to get the Sidekick and a data subscription just to browse the web through cellular means, just like you aren't forced to rely on Wi-Fi hotspots that aren't yet as widespread as some would like. There's flexibility built into (key words are built into!) the UX50 that other devices have yet to exhibit.

Sure, the UX50 is by no means a perfect device, but the more compelling fact is that it may be coming out at the right time when a lot of people are comfortable enough with the idea of BT and Wi-Fi as means to access the vast amounts of information from the web, which could point to this type of device (not necessarily the UX50 itself) becoming one of those ubiquitous devices that we all have, like cell phones.

When the first Palm Pilot ever came out, people probably argued that it's nothing new, that this type of PDA-device had been done before (Apple Newton, Psion, Zaurus, Sony Magic Link (?), etc...), but it was the timing of Palm that made the PDA take off. Timing can be everything for devices of this nature. If the Walkman had come out too soon or too late, it's most likely it never would have caught on as well as it did. Same argument for the iPod. If it had come out before mp3s became the "de facto" way for people to digitize their music, it would have failed miserably. But as it stands, it seems to be the new Walkman (come on Sony, where is your rebuttal to Apple's iPod?).

So whether or not people think the UX50 is revolutionary, timing is the issue. Did it come at the right time, where people will embrace its capabilities, or is it still too early for the majority to see its merits (I already do, as do many others)? We'll see.

[Unregistered]

there isn't anything new about the ux, except it is small. feature wise - everything has been done before.

i would more likely say the nr series was more revolutionary (if that), than the ux series.

[UZI4U182]

Can you ever escape a desktop - that must be used in conjuction with a Clie?


Of course - it's been possible since the the release of the NX series. It's also possible with the NZ90, and I'm quite sure it will be possible with these models.

[Unregistered]

for those who sync to outlook (the majority of business users) - how do you use a clie without a desktop compliment?

for those that use acid image - how do you download images from the internet (eg., maps) without a desktop?

for those that 'rip' mp3's - how do you do that without a desktop?

i'd love to know, then i can do away with my desktop. but if it is too cumbersome, then i'd stick with my desktop.

i have highspeed internet at home, but i don't spend 2 hours surfing on my nz90 - that gives me a headache. i use the desktop for serious surfing.

is this a question of anything is possible, but not practical?

[phoenix3200]

I don't see anything revolutionary about the UX.

However, if I wanted a device as thick as that, I'd buy a tablet laptop. They look so much more user-friendly than this device which would require guys to wear a purse. At least my NX60 can fit in my pants without bulging out THAT much.

Sony, get a life. Release this only in Japan/China/wherever and then come out with our dream T-form factor 320X480 device. Before Palm releases theirs.

Oh... and go back to using Intel XScales. I don't care if they're 250s or 255s. They'll outperform what you can make because Intel's job is to create CPUs. Sony's job is to use these CPUs in their products, not make their own CRAP.

The only advantage I can see of the new circuitry is that the integrated RAM in the CPU may cause less battery drain.

[Unregistered]

so its not so revolutionary after all. who knows, still might fall in love with it and buy it anyway.

but i can't do away with the desktop - you still need one with a clie.

[Unregistered]

The ux sure looks good, but there are devices out there that are good for surfin. I am typing this on my danger sidekick and color too. This also functions as my cell phone. Its a bit bulky but you get use to it. I do like the multimediacapabilities of the ux. I'll hold on to my nx70v for now and see if the ux really sells.

[Unregistered]

Clearly, HeyDave is "off his rocker"

[alsa]

I don't like this device at all. I like the NX80 MUCH better. It is just beautiful. I don't get the horizontal display on a handheld. Sure, it's good for web pages. But I still prefer the portrait mode for ebooks/scheduling which is what I do most. Plus, this new UX thing just looks ugly to me - sort of like notebook laptops from the early 90s - too much space around the screen that is not being used. Skip this one.

[n2ifp]

Revolutionary or not, I still like it :)