Maybe the 16 MB isn't that bad actually-

[madmaxmedia]

Since even the built-in launcher should be able to store apps in the 29 MB (not 22 MB) internal 'memory stick'. And any launcher program should do it as well.

Launch times should be faster than running off an actual stick (I imagine that data transfer is speedier). And you can swap sticks while still having access to these programs.

What it sorta does is make that 29 MB block more versatile. You can use it for programs AND other stuff. The only problem is that I guess it would have been nice for people who load road maps and stuff (any databases that take up a LOT of space.)

But who knows, maybe you can load just about all your programs into that 29MB and at least free up most of the 16 MB.

[aaronchow]

Hopefully you're right, but I'm guessing that Sony has re-designed PalmOS RAM handeling.

According to a response by HandyMan from PalmInfoCenter, the 104MB from Sony is:


Call it Sony-Math.

We know the "Handheld Engine" has 64Mbit of built-in RAM... which is 8MB. Let's assume that's part of the 104MB.

So 104 - 8 = 96
96 = 32MB DRAM + 64MB non-volatile
32MB DRAM = 16MB heap + 16MB user space
64MB non-volitile = 22MB media/storage + 16MB backup + 26MB X

What is X? Is that ROM software?


So, I guess the 16MB user space is the regular RAM that we're used to, and since the 22MB RAM is non-volatile, its content will be used primarily for storage (but not excution) only.

Why don't just make it all together and let us decide the usage of these space? :confused:

[Unregistered]

sony has apparantly concluded that in the short term, their users want more features as a priorty rather than ram. palm (t/c) on the other hand went with processor speed and ram, rather than all the multimedia features.

[aaronchow]

Originally posted by Unregistered
sony has apparantly concluded that in the short term, their users want more features as a priorty rather than ram. palm (t/c) on the other hand went with processor speed and ram, rather than all the multimedia features.

So this is why Sony doesn't consider me as their user? Or is this actually happenning for the users based in Japan? maybe...

Off-Topic: User = Suer?

[Unregistered]

well, studies have shown that the majority of palm os users do not even have any third party apps, other than what was on the installation cd. so they are going with the averages. just like how handspring concluded that users want the thumb board. when the competing treos firsts came out - thumb board model very much outsold the grafitii model. go with what the majority of consumers are saying, via their wallet. we on the other hand, are 'hardcore' users, but small in total global sales.

[Jonavin]

Well, if you don't load any Apps, 16MB is over-kill. That's a whole lot of appointments, contacts, and notes.

In reality people like us have tons of software. DateBK5 is over 600K now, but worth every last byte. With all my eBooks and maps, there's hardly any room left on my 128MB MemoryStick.

Mind you, I could save 16MB because I no longer need to backup to MS. Then I could move some of my MP3s into the storage area. That's an extra 38MB to play with on my MemoryStick. That's not too bad if you think about it. Not perfect, buit better than even if they gave us 32MB RAm... that would've eat into the battery life too.

[Vidge]

Originally posted by Unregistered
sony has apparantly concluded that in the short term, their users want more features as a priorty rather than ram. palm (t/c) on the other hand went with processor speed and ram, rather than all the multimedia features.

Well, then I guess I'm a Palm user instead of a Sony one. I would much prefer T|C specs over multimedia features. Only 2 reasons I returned my T|C - hated the keyboard, and no VG

[X Destruction]

Well, with the internal memory stick (with I think RAM launch speeds), that's 45mb of internal space. I believe the T|C has 51MB of actual storage capacity (from palm.com) That's only 6mb apart! Then, you have more memory on your actual memory stick because it backs up into the ram that cannot be removed. Also, I believe Flash Player will use the heap space on this, meaning no memory error and no need to keep 3mb free for it. Also, all the built-in apps are in ROM, meaning even more RAM avalible. There ya go, 45mb of free space instead of 9mb after netfront on the nx60, nx70v, nz90 and the tg50. I think that's pretty good!

[n2ifp]

Just think of it as a business tool, and then it all starts to make sense. Every executive will want one sitting on their table or desk, guaranteed ;)

[Vidge]

Originally posted by X Destruction
Well, with the internal memory stick (with I think RAM launch speeds), that's 45mb of internal space. I believe the T|C has 51MB of actual storage capacity (from palm.com) That's only 6mb apart! Then, you have more memory on your actual memory stick because it backs up into the ram that cannot be removed. Also, I believe Flash Player will use the heap space on this, meaning no memory error and no need to keep 3mb free for it. Also, all the built-in apps are in ROM, meaning even more RAM avalible. There ya go, 45mb of free space instead of 9mb after netfront on the nx60, nx70v, nz90 and the tg50. I think that's pretty good!

But will the additional internal space be available for PROGRAMS? Unless I'm misstaken, that space is not available for programs. That's what makes the 51 mb of the T|C so attractive. My NR stays full - and that's even with using the Jacks to put things in flash. I'm constantly having to take things off in order to load things on. And I don't think PIDirect works with OS5, so that is not an option for this unit.

[Unregistered]

I believe that the 29 mb is an internal memory stick meaning there still is a palm/launcher folder.

[dannyboy]

just wondering.. since T|C has 51MB, does it mean that backup will require 51MB of space on the external card then?

if thats the case a partition isn't that bad afterall, since in case of a crash one only needs to reinstall the "programs partition" instead of losing everything (think windows).

[OcellNuri]

Originally posted by dannyboy
just wondering.. since T|C has 51MB, does it mean that backup will require 51MB of space on the external card then?

if thats the case a partition isn't that bad afterall, since in case of a crash one only needs to reinstall the "programs partition" instead of losing everything (think windows).


That's exactly what I'm thinking.

The Tungsten C may have 52 megs of ram, but it is limited to pdb and prc files. You still have to store all other types of files on the memory card. And then, your RAM backup is going to take up to 50 megs?

With the way Sony has done things, you can store ANY type of file in 29 megs of RAM, and you get to backup to internal RAM, leaving your whole memory stick for things like more MP3 files, movies, and photos. The UX is actually the first device, in my opinion, that can be used to full potential without buying a Memory Stick. The partitioned RAM in the UX is turning out to be much more versitile than the 52meg of PalmOS RAM in the Tungsten.

At least that's how I'm looking at the situation.

[aaronchow]

Originally posted by OcellNuri
With the way Sony has done things, you can store ANY type of file in 29 megs of RAM, and you get to backup to internal RAM, leaving your whole memory stick for things like more MP3 files, movies, and photos. The UX is actually the first device, in my opinion, that can be used to full potential without buying a Memory Stick. The partitioned RAM in the UX is turning out to be much more versitile than the 52meg of PalmOS RAM in the Tungsten.

I seriously doubt about this. Do you remember the way Sony markets their CF card slot as a communication slot? Yes, they're being honest as this slot can only be used for communicating purposes. And since Sony is advertising this 29MB of space as for multimedia storage purposes, I'm afraid that this space is pretty much limited to MP3s, movies and waves files only.

I'm not doubting about the usefullness of this extra 29MB of multimedia space, but If the above statement is correct, I'll be very very mad because, once again, Sony is limiting my way of using these RAM.

[Eddy]

Originally posted by n2ifp
Just think of it as a business tool, and then it all starts to make sense.
I'd like to add.....
"Just think of it in terms of business!" :D
Then surely this all make sense, what Sony is doing, making money. :p

[OcellNuri]

Originally posted by aaronchow


I seriously doubt about this. Do you remember the way Sony markets their CF card slot as a communication slot? Yes, they're being honest as this slot can only be used for communicating purposes. And since Sony is advertising this 29MB of space as for multimedia storage purposes, I'm afraid that this space is pretty much limited to MP3s, movies and waves files only.

I'm not doubting about the usefullness of this extra 29MB of multimedia space, but If the above statement is correct, I'll be very very mad because, once again, Sony is limiting my way of using these RAM.

I'm just assuming that the 29 meg is going to be seen as a VFS volume. I don't see any advantage Sony would gain by limiting this space to only store mp3, wav, and jpg files. Sony would be shooting themselves in the foot. Anyone with hands on time with the UX able to explain how the 29meg is handled?

[Unregistered]

i don't think so. try loading a few maps and jpegs and apps (such as ZL which takes up 1mb), and see if you don't need a m/s for the ux. who cares what you can back up. the majority of users use the m/s to store apps, not for back up users (and i am talking about the general majority, who buys most of the pdas)

[NJL!2016]

why do you keep calling it an "internal memorystick"? its not! its just another RAM!

[n2ifp]

If you think 16MB is too much, then get the NX73

[ErnieB]

Originally posted by OcellNuri
 The Tungsten C may have 52 megs of ram, but it is limited to pdb and prc files. You still have to store all other types of files on the memory card. And then, your RAM backup is going to take up to 50 megs?

With the way Sony has done things, you can store ANY type of file in 29 megs of RAM, and you get to backup to internal RAM, leaving your whole memory stick for things like more MP3 files, movies, and photos. The UX is actually the first device, in my opinion, that can be used to full potential without buying a Memory Stick. The partitioned RAM in the UX is turning out to be much more versitile than the 52meg of PalmOS RAM in the Tungsten. 

As a T|C user, I can tell you these things . . .

1) The 51MB is not limited to pdb and prc files.  Anything you can store on the card you can store in main memory (except MP3s, which the T|C doesn't do well anyway, so it doesn't matter).

2) The backup requires as much space as you've used and no more.  If you use 24MB of RAM, your backup is 24MB.

3) The only thing you really need a memory card for on the T|C is backups.  51MB is a heck of a lot of memory and, despite my best efforts, I have been unable to fill it yet.  I'm even using Mapopolis and storing the maps in main memory (and let me tell you, Mapopolis on the T|C screams).

If you're looking for raw performance, the T|C beats the UX series hands down.  If you're looking for a multimedia extravaganza, you'd probably be better off (and $200 poorer) with the UX-50.

[n2ifp]

You are right, with all the crap I have on my NX, it still doesn't add up to 51MB, if MP3 and Pics are excluded. I could put all my apps in RAM and they would load instantly :)!

The only problem is that I don't care for the TC, but I am not knocking it! It doesn't fit into my needs, but so what, there is just more choices now :).

[EdFrmBrighthand]

Originally posted by Unregistered
well, studies have shown that the majority of palm os users do not even have any third party apps, other than what was on the installation cd.
Actually, studies have shown the exact opposite. At the last PalmSource convention, an exec released the results of a survey that showed that 82% of handheld users are aware that they can load third-party applications onto their handhelds and 67% have done so.

[dannyboy]

Originally posted by ErnieB


2) The backup requires as much space as you've used and no more.  If you use 24MB of RAM, your backup is 24MB.


Unless I'm mistaken, you either backup everything or nothing in T|C right?

I guess this could be a good thing as well as a bad thing. For me personally, I want to backup my prcs and pdbs, whereas pictures, mp3s etc. are not essential (since I keep a copy on my PC). For this reason I prefer a "partition", so that I won't have to waste space on my external memory card for backups.

That said, I'd still love more memory - the bigger the better! The flexibility is just an added bonus.

[EdFrmBrighthand]

Originally posted by Unregistered
I believe that the 29 mb is an internal memory stick meaning there still is a palm/launcher folder.
I believe I'm the source of this belief and, sadly, it turns out to not be correct. Please see this thread:
www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=21019