is 'Palm' going extinct?

[peehdee]

Do you all think that the Sony clie that run palm OS will get wipped out by microsoft? just like they did with wordperfect (MS word), quatro pro (MS excel), netscape (MS IE), since they have so much money?

All the latest phone/pda/cameras seem to run Windows.

what ya all think?

Did i spend 500 bucks plus cost of expansion slots for an operating system that won't be around in a few years? well it will be around but not much useful..

???

[Serotta]

I believe that Palm still has the majority of the market in both PDA's and phones. I personally don't see that changing in the foreseeable future.

[ziggy]

As long as PPC remains as expensive as it is now, I do not think that palm will get wiped out.

[madkins007]

I think PPC is gaining in many ways, including better visibility... but I doubt it will knock Palm OS off for several more years (unless, of course, Sony and Palm error by making too many more $500 PDAS and not enough low-end versions.

[Jake K]

Originally posted by ziggy
As long as PPC remains as expensive as it is now, I do not think that palm will get wiped out.

If you compare features of a PPC and a Sony, the PPC is alot cheaper.

[hherbzilla]

Originally posted by peehdee
...Did i spend 500 bucks plus cost of expansion slots for an operating system that won't be around in a few years? well it will be around but not much useful..

??? I plan to keep upgrading my PDA every 1-2 years anyway, so it doesn't matter too much if Palm eventually goes away. The big regret will be my investment in software, which I'll have to do all over again if I switch to PPC.

[Griff]

I doubt you will see a major decline in Palm market share for at least 5 years. Palm HAS the market right now and there is no indication that PPC is anywhere near catching up.

The basic issue is that Palm is a heck of a lot easier to use for those who want a PDA to plan their day. It's simple, it's quick, and it works. Even with the limits of the existing 4 built-ins, it is a heck of a lot simpler a productivity tool.

With the Zire being at $100, anyone can afford one right now. This is they key, get them to buy cheap, their next investment may double or triple to get more features.

I also think that Microsoft may slow development of the PPC. They are smart enough to see what's out there, and to know that their energy is better spent on developing wireless flatpanels and the like. In many ways the current battle has been won in Palm's favor, and I'm not sure they will want to battle again, of course, we'll see.

[jamester]

I don't think Palm is going anywhere. I've been using Palm OS based PDA's for the past five and a half years (first purchase, Dec 1997) and other than a couple of months I spent with an iPaq, the PPC camp has never really had anything for me.

And now with recent developments at Palm, I really feel that if anything, Palm is increasing their share more than ever... as processor speeds and memory shoot up, displays get more colorful and crisp, things are only going to keep getting better.

Just my opinion, of course. :)

J

[ChuToy]

All the latest phone/pda/cameras seem to run Windows Yes, but until very recently, not very well. It's very early in the convergence device biz to call a clear winner yet. And as phones, they are rather large compared to a convergence device based on Palm. My husband is a huge fan of Pocket PC but even he switched to a Treo300 as his primary PDA, because he wanted convergence and that meant a device that could be on him comfortably all the time like his old cell phone always was. And PPC didn't impress him much with their implementation--too bulky and too buggy. His friends and coworkers soon followed suit. Even more telling, the owner of his company converted as well. Heck, even our dentist jumped on the bandwagon!

Now the newest Samsung i-700 is an impressive PPC phone device, but many who use convergence devices find a thumb-board indispensible for messaging. To get that feature along with the typical Pocket PC sized screen on one device evidently requires monstrous dimensions as found on the Hitachi G-1000, (unless they figure out a way to make a folding or clamshell device and even then I wonder how compact they could make it).

Microsoft evidently dictates a lot of the hardware specifications and PPC enthusiasts are starting to complain that that has been stagnating or stifling innovation and product differentiation among brands. And they seem to have a problem miniaturizing the units without sacrificing a lot of resources the OS needs to thrive. The HP 1910 is a marvel but it's very limited, or so the complaints go. So it's not all entirely greener on the other side of the fence. But the 1910's successor seemes to be catching up, so don't do a victory dance yet.

Getting back to PDA/phone combos, there was a lot of interest in the Kyocera 7135, and now the Treo 600 is generating a lot of buzz. Far from having one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, I think as long as Palm software and hardware developers don't fall asleep at the wheel, they could keep this going and certainly keep their market share from eroding any further to Microsoft.

But one problem I do see, as a Pocket PC user, is that the most interesting Clies are getting monstrously large and expensive. They're almost becoming Pocket PC's. Meanwhile Pocket PC's are coming down in size and/or price. If not for the Treo, I would have little incentive to switch over. Because comparable Palm devices are bigger than my Pocket PC and cost way more than another Pocket PC. Yeah, I could get a cheaper SJ or a Zire71, but then I'd have to give up built-in voice memo recording, and my excellent MP3 playback free of clicks and stutters that the Zire supposedly has. The TG-50 almost got me to switch, but was that thumb-board designed for humans? And to be honest, my Pocket PC has a nicer screen even though it's old.

I lurk on a lot of PDA forums and the general cry going up among users is they want a lot of features crammed into a small form factor and they want prices to come down out of the stratosphere. And the features that they want, they want to be GOOD and smart choices. Unfortunately everyone's idea of what constitutes a smart choice differs among individuals. Some people find a built-in camera an inordinately stupid waste of space and want integrated BT. Others think BT is a waste and want the camera.

But just about everyone wants some form of connectivity to their e-mail or the internet.

So, it will be interesting to see which camp makes the most concerted effort to give us a PDA that is packed with features, is part of a differentiated product line that offers the customer a bit of a choice among features and price tradeoffs, and can fetch them their data.

I see Palm/Handspring making a strong start with the new Treo 600. The fact that they even bother to lurk on a message board dedicated to their product is an encouraging sign. Microsoft supposedly has a tradition of listening to input from the leaders of PPC user communities. It's good to see Palm doing the same. I wish Sony would. Then maybe you folks would get your Hi Res+ non clamshel unit at long last. :rolleyes:

[n2ifp]

But, I love my clamshell unit, it's fantastic when I want my Clie to be propped up. I would like a remote for my Clie with built-in JogDial and Joy Stick.

BTW, users aren't happy unless they are complaining :)

[ChuToy]

:D Yes, that's true Larry. So true about people not being happy unless they're complaining. I do my fair share, so I guess I'm a very happy person. LOL!

And with all the new product announcements lately, I have seen a lot of complaining. But a lot of people around here sure do want non-clamshell long screened Clies. Sony churns out so many so fast, I'm surprised they haven't given folks this particular kind of Clie.

[n2ifp]

I realized some want the 'T' form factor. I imagine it more for those who have the Clie in their hands all the time. For some like myself who put the Clie on a desk or table, appreciate the clamshell.

The crux of the problem is that Sony doesn't communicate with us. We are classified as second class citizens compared to the Japanese.

[Griff]

I have to add that I most likely will purchase the Treo 600 as my next phone. It is just plain sexy and to be able to carry my PDA and phone in the same device that isn't huge would be a great plus, especially in the summer when I wear shorts alot.

I would probably still keep my Clie as my main PDA as I love the screen and cannot deal with a tiny screen minus grafitti area.

[Unregistered]

ppc is!

[hansschmucker]

And that's the answer to which question?

[MicroMadHouse]

Two points id like to mention:

1. I own a NX70v, I dont use it for organisation (more its camera, mp3, note making and games). my older brother who is a doc was consdieering getting a PDA device. We would argue about this Palm vs PPC debate, and he would always say "noone has succesfully defending against microsoft" blah blah blah. He wouldnt believe in the palm (he did have a m505 or something ages ago which he never used). Anyways, long stroy short, he was pretty one sided. So I went on holiday for a week, when I got back, he is the brand new owner of a Tung T. Why? Cheaper, sexier, lighter, smaller, has all the organisational quality for his Dr life, etc. He then happened to find out a lot of Drs he knows own Tung T's and its the one theyre going for.

2. Microsoft is big, for sure, but Sony arent slouches either, and theyre not stupid. Sony havent lost many battles, and they knew what they are letting themselves in for. Also, im not sure about you, but most people would agree they have hammered the XBox (so far) with their PS2. Theyre obviulsy think theres a future in Palm, and along with Palm itself, I think they will be a match strong enough (financially and powerfully) for microsoft. They wont get intimdated or frightened easily.

Long live Palm.

[MicroMadHouse]

Hans - is that quote from G. Dubbya for real??? (sorry its an off topic!) :)

[sdsdsd]

my older brother who is a doc was consdieering getting a PDA device. We would argue about this Palm vs PPC debate, and he would always say "noone has succesfully defending against microsoft" blah blah blah.

No one except Sony (PS/2), Palm (PalmOS), Quark & Adobe (electronic prepress and font technology), and Intuit (Microsoft Money, anyone?) ... :-)

[madkins007]

Originally posted by n2ifp
But, I love my clamshell unit, it's fantastic when I want my Clie to be propped up. I would like a remote for my Clie with built-in JogDial and Joy Stick. 



Hey- yeah! Prop the ol' clamshell on the table, then settle back with the remote!

Of course, you'd have to make the screen a bit bigger... and I'd want to run a power line in so as to not drain the batteries... and some more memory for big files, especially videos and music... better speakers... Heck, may as well rig it to take DVD/CD somehow.. maybe add a TV tuner and/or FM...

 

: )

[lal2707]

Lets hope that Palm can stay active for some time - last thing we want ti MSoft to dictate yet another platform. Luckily here still not many PPC being used and long may it continue. Clie still looks so much cooler than any of those PPC devices ... for how long?

[Flash-57]

Of course Microsoft is going to win eventually. Palm will never go away completely, they'll just be "appled."

> 2. Microsoft is big, for sure, but Sony arent
> slouches either, and theyre not stupid. Sony
> havent lost many battles

Well, unless you consider Betamax to be a significant battle.

And, let's hear your personal opinion of the ATAC3 format.

> Also, im not sure about you, but most
> people would agree they have hammered
> the XBox (so far) with their PS2.

For now. Microsoft doesn't win these battles overnight. They take the "800-pound gorilla" approach and look to win in the long run.

> I think they will be a match strong enough
> (financially and powerfully) for microsoft.

For a while. I suspect that the constant pressure from Microsoft will take its toll. Within five years, Microsoft will have 50% of the market.

Luckily, PDAs that seem hot and sexy today will be very old hat in five years, so it's not like you are gonna be stuck with a dinosaur.

[n2ifp]

It could be done very easily, I see no reason why there couldn't be a killer PPC introduced!

[ChuToy]

You know, I'm not a Microsoft hater at all. Actually I love most of their products and my husband has made a good living thanks to Microsoft products. And he says they've given him very good support and service at work, much better than he has gotten from their competition. I'm around people who actually have a LOT of good to say about Microsoft. So I don't have a built-in bias.

But still, I don't want there to just be Pocket PC. In the handheld arena, I don't think they're necessarily the end-all be-all optimal solution for every handheld configuration we could want. What do the rest of you think?

For example...and sorry to bring up convergence devices again, but someone at the Treo forum pointed to a post on a Pocket PC forum about just exactly how the Pocket PC based Samsung i-700 is a poor implementation as a cell phone in the cell-phone/handheld convergence market. I think the Palm OS convergence PDA's with their myriad shapes and configurations are going to have a good head start making significant headway into that market for a while. The Pocket PC devices may be cool and feature-rich, but they have some drawbacks if they all are beholden to a rigid set of MS specs. Of course, MS does have another flavor of Smartphone OS they may start pushing over Pocket PC Phone Edition if PPC Phone Edition units flounder too much.

A lot of pundits predict convergence is where the handheld market is heading. I think most of you here are smarter than me about technology. Don't you see some advantages Palm OS has in this area? I am asking, not telling, because I wouldn't know, but I am sure you guys and gals would. (Please remember I'm a geek's wife, not a geek myself, so don't jump all over me if I'm discussing observations you don't agree with. Just correct me gently).

When I first started PDA shopping to replace my EM-500, I was immediately attracted to Clies and still remain interested in Palm devices because they come in a variety of configurations, sizes, even shapes. Actually there were so many choices, I just decided to sit back and take my time and learn more and figure out exactly what I want my next handheld to do for me. There were many more options than I thought when I set out, just expecting to update my PPC.

One thing I want is to be self-sufficient. So I read the problem areas on this forum, Palm forums and the Pocket PC ones. I find I can understand the Palm fixes better than I can the Pocket PC problems and fixes. I can learn both, surely. That is what I have said on another post. I am not afraid of either OS. But from a newbie perspective, Palm looks slightly more attractive at this point.

If you're talking about increasing market share, well there's still a lot of wives and soccer moms out there like me without a PDA. And plenty of guys, too. Not to mention students. What do you think would sell better to the have-nots?

And say a newbie starts out on Palm based on perceived ease of use. It is possible Palm OS 6 will keep them in the fold and they won't necessarily "graduate" to Pocket PC. Don'tcha think? Pocket PC is good, but it's not perfect. So I think there's room for Palm and to account for personal tastes. At least until 2010, when we all become cyborgs and don't need pda's or cell phones or computers! LOL!

[n2ifp]

I am not a Microsoft hater either, but like Sony, Microsoft does things that annoy me, especially on desktop PC's

[hansschmucker]

Originally posted by MicroMadHouse
Hans - is that quote from G. Dubbya for real??? (sorry its an off topic!) :)

It certainly is

[hansschmucker]

I am a certified Microsoft hater... and proud of it.

[clie_wannabe]

Originally posted by n2ifp

The crux of the problem is that Sony doesn't communicate with us. We are classified as second class citizens compared to the Japanese.

maybe... we could all posts to the Japanese clie boards, then?
im quite sure, those are what the sony-japan ppl read...:cool:

[hypachris]

Originally posted by peehdee
Do you all think that the Sony clie that run palm OS will get wipped out by microsoft? just like they did with wordperfect (MS word), quatro pro (MS excel), netscape (MS IE), since they have so much money?

FYI, Lotus 1-2-3 is the software which popularized spreadsheets.

Quatro Pro was just a cheap generic copy-cat of Lotus....

[n2ifp]

Originally posted by clie_wannabe


maybe... we could all posts to the Japanese clie boards, then?
im quite sure, those are what the sony-japan ppl read...:cool:

Do they echo the same sentiments as the rest of the world? I have nothing against the Japanese, just curious.

[n2ifp]

Originally posted by hansschmucker
I am a certified Microsoft hater... and proud of it.

Good for you!