Can we ditch Magic Gate?

[neon]

Memory Stick Pro... what BS. Memory Shtick is more like it. I just got one to find out that a whopping 10% of the memory is gone, likely allocated to "magic gate copyright protection!" Aren't you happy about that! I've really begun to hate Sony, really. Using a 128MB non-magic gate Memory Stick I had approximately 124MB I believe. One 512MB stick only handles 460MB (I think you can max it out at 468 MB, but am not sure.)

I hope someone can find a way to disable the Magic Gate component which I don't need and get the 50 MB of space I thought I was getting as advertised. It should be called a 460MB Memory Stick...

[kp*]

This is really getting annoying! I really hope Palm comes out with something that is everything Sony should have done and more. I don't want to reward Sony for putting out such half-a**ed products by buying more of them, but no one else is providing a complete alternative. I doubt we'll be seeing a Palm with VG, BT and a 1.3MP camera anytime soon, but it just drives me crazy that Sony pulls stuff like this, and in a month or so I'm STILL going to buy one of those overpriced Memstick Pro's :mad:

[n2ifp]

Hmm, just like getting a 16MB Clie that only has 11MB usable. To me it's false advertising, others may disagree, but I always get the feeling that I am being short-changed :mad:!

[Jeffry]

Thanks to the amount of money I already invested in memory sticks, my only option is to buy an overpriced Sony digital camera with fair picture quality. :mad:

[kp*]

Originally posted by n2ifp
Hmm, just like getting a 16MB Clie that only has 11MB usable. To me it's false advertising, others may disagree, but I always get the feeling that I am being short-changed :mad:!
We're accustomed to memory specs not being the exact amount of usable memory, but I wonder if there's an established limit of when something is false advertising.

[neon]

Sony does not believe that it is false advertising when you can put things in fine print. 1








1 - This statement is in a language. It may be changed to any other language at any time and without notice.

[Alistar]

You always have to expect some loss in a formatted storage media. An 80Gig hard drive is 80 Gigabytes raw, not formatted. If you could look at the memory stick in raw format it would be the exact amount specified or practically, maybe off by a couple of kilobytes or so. This is the way things work.

[neon]

Alistar -- the expected loss in formatted storage media is not 10%. As I stated with the 128MB sticks, the loss is somewhere around 1-2% I believe.

I found this thread but I cannot get it to work as stated. Not sure if they can get full allocation either.

http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9341&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Actually - this has to do with not using the update, not having anything to do with recovering the lost magic crappy copy protection gate garbage that is likely yanking away the extra memory..

[Alistar]

Well, my 512 MB CF card gives me 472 MB
and my 1GB CF only gives me 937 (or was it 943 but something this low) MB.
Thats a little less loss than your MS Pro, but it is still quite a bit
And my 128 USB flash drive gives me only 112 MB usable.
My 6 Gig hard drive only gives me 5.37 Gigs usable
My 80 gig hard drive only gives me 74.6 Gigs usable

[neon]

Strange -- I believe I get somewhere along the lines of 122 MB on a 128 MB memory stick.

[Alistar]

Hmm, I just expected the loss. I just figured other people got the same.

[cbulock]

If you do a search, there are a couple of other threads that deal with the memory "loss". Basicly it has to do with a couple of things. Space lost to formatting of media, and differing definitions of terms such as megabyte and gigabyte.

[kp*]

I think neon's point is that this memory loss is (or may be) not a result of normal formatting, etc. but because of Sony's stupid proprietary copyright protection, which robs users of more memory than would be expected otherwise.

[robrecht]

Call Greta

[Eddy]

lost magic crappy copy protection gate garbage
wow, now calm down. I've a 256MB MS Pro myself & frankly not meeting up to my spec too. But surely would like to get rid of that protection thing for sure, can't even make a backup copy of all files stored in the MS PRO to my notebook via "MSImport". You've to copy paste bit by bit.
Not sure if the protection is hogging the extra space from the MS Pro though. Once again Sony....

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Eddy

wow, now calm down.

I've calmed down now after seeing the bill... and the loss of space.

What really annoyed me off was getting a 512MB Memory Stick Pro for "cheap" at $215 plus tax, the best deal in town, and still double of what you can get a CF card.

What really pissed me off was not only paying twice as much, but getting even less available memory. Sony's statement is that the 460MB limitation is due to Sony's "system management area." That sounds like their copy protection. How ironic... you get to pay more and fund protection of Sony Music's intellectual property at the same time...

[Eddy]

Sony's statement is that the 460MB limitation is due to Sony's "system management area."
I can relate to the price vs storage space, & also the bill matter. :p
Another deceptive advertising by Sony.

So let's look into this "system Management area", would appreciate if somebody out there knows how to yank this out of the MS PRO & give us the extra storage space. I for one am willing to give up the security issues and get that extra room. :D

[outdoor]

If someone can modify the clies so that it can read MMC cards instead of MS....... then we can all say goodbye to MS



oh wait..... Eruware did that for CF already..... horray! =D

[Eddy]

yep, the new CF driver ver1.2 ROCKs! :D
but still there's a requirement for MS, IMO, for on the spot instant recovery. :)

[rclodfelter]

You've got that right!

[robrecht]

Originally posted by Unregistered
That sounds like their copy protection. How ironic... you get to pay more and fund protection of Sony Music's intellectual property at the same time...

Very perceptive if indeed MagicGate copy protection is the issue.  The only advantage of MagicGate to customers was supposed to be the ability to use the smaller ATRAC3 files, but SONY has not managed to get these to work on Memory Stick PRO, even on the new native devices.   Maybe SONY will develop a Memory Stick PRO Select that would have two separate sections, one of which would support ATRAC3 and one which would not?

[robrecht]

Look for ATRAC3BPlusPRO files to be developed soon, of course these will only be able to be saved on the B side of the Memory Stick PRO Select sticks (in development) by SonycStagePRO software (also in development) on SONY devices that use the new VAIOtypeCPlusSelectPRO2 chipset architecture that is currently being designed ... I'm so happy that SONY's commitment to proprietarianism assures us of such a wide range of compatibility.

[Eddy]

a Memory Stick PRO Select that would have two separate sections, one of which would support ATRAC3 and one which would not?
wow, ATRAC3PlusPRO? so one side you get max storage space & the other side you have MagicGate copy right? :D

[robrecht]

Originally posted by Eddy

wow, ATRAC3PlusPRO? so one side you get max storage space & the other side you have MagicGate copy right? :D

No, that's ATRAC3BPlusPRO.  ATRAC3PlusPRO files are only designed to be compatible with the MagicGate Memory Stick Duo, which needs a slighlty different copy protection scheme for now.  Eventually, there will be a Memory Stick Duo PRO Select that will have a smaller select switch but these will not be compatible with older devices.

[Eddy]

OK.. thanks as I didn't see the B there. :D
so still under development at the moment eh......

[robrecht]

Originally posted by Eddy
OK.. thanks as I didn't see the B there. :D
so still under development at the moment eh......

Yes, but won't be long now.  SONY has announced that it should be available by the end of 2002BPROSelect. 

[robrecht]

Originally posted by robrecht


Yes, but won't be long now.  SONY has announced that it should be available by the end of 2002BPROSelect. 

Sorry, that's 2002BPROSelectPlus.  It's sort of like dog years. 

[ashVID]

And all this time I thought "Magic Gate" was some saucy scandal cover-up involving Doug Henning and David Copperfield....


ash =o)

[n2ifp]

Hmm, I never saw the magic in it either...

[Eddy]

I don't want any magic in it indeed. :D