why Sony releases new Clies frequently (maybe)?

[clie_wannabe]

i dont remember where ive last read that post (here in ClieSource), but someone mentioned that the reason "why Sony releases new models frequently" is maybe that japanese would abandon their present models on a whim, and get the new ones...

in my opinion, i think that sony is basing its timing on the way new models (of computers, cd players, etc.) are released here in japan - every season... yes, there are four seasons in japan, and one could expect at least TWO different cellphone models, TWO different computer models, TWO different clie models, etc. in a year...

for example, during last summer, sony released a vaio notebook, which during the following season (autumn) was RE-"released" as a same-spec computer but with only one difference --> additional software... and because of the difference, NEW model...

maybe that is so with the NX, the NZ, and the new model that im expecting around spring (feb to april)...they may have an idea what a perfect handheld would be... but they're releasing in tidbits just to rake in the profits... i dont think sony is making a mistake in the way it is designing its handhelds (if you look at it from a monetary point of view)...

just my $ worth....

[utahjazz85]

I don't have a clue why they would do this so often. It's definetly has nothing to do with making money though.

[Jake K]

Maybe they have so many ideas for new products that their trying them all with different combinations of features till they find one that works.

[Orion]

Originally posted by Jake K
Maybe they have so many ideas for new products that their trying them all with different combinations of features till they find one that works.

Yeah, or another thing is that the engineers are coming with many great ideas and they want to release them all but cannot afford to so they're releasing one at a time as fast as possible to get all their ideas out.

[cbulock]

Originally posted by utahjazz85
I don't have a clue why they would do this so often. It's definetly has nothing to do with making money though.

Right, I imagine that they have no desire to make money. :rolleyes: I think the reason they keep up with releases is that they always have a top of the line device. That way, people will buy the device. Then they will make money. I think that we all can agree that Clie's are top of the line, can't we. Thats why we buy them. Money is probably the biggest thing on Sony's mind. What else would they want?

[yOyOYoo]

I hear that the reason they upgrade so much is because in Japan, technology gets updated at a much faster pace than in the US. There is no demand for Palm hardware products in Japan, so they only come out with models like 2-3 times per year.

On the other hand, the demand for innovation in the CLIE model line in Japan is very fast. We here in the US are just lucky to have SOny import those models to the US. Well, except for the NZ, we are quite unlucky to be getting that brick.

[turcic.com]

Originally posted by utahjazz85
I don't have a clue why they would do this so often. It's definetly has nothing to do with making money though.

Why is that so? I disagree.

I own a Sony Digiphotocam, a Sony Digivideocam, a Sony Notebook, and a Sony Handheld. Let's say I have my experiences with Sony equipment. Fact is, Sony gives a s**t about customer support. When there is a problem with a product, what they do is, instead of fixing the problem (like releasing a new firmware or OS), they release a new version of the hardware. Examples:

When I bought my Sony notebook, it came with Windows 2000. 3 months later MS released Windows XP. Until today, there are no official drivers for my notebook available. Comment Sony support: You need to upgrade to notebook model xyz in order to run Windows XP.

I own a Sony DSC 707 Digicam (5.1mio pixels). Worst thing about it is the slow startup speed. Not even 3 months later, Sony released the DSC 717. Changes: new manual focus and manual zoom ring, hot shoe for external flash units, USB 2.0 support, and improved startup and shot-to-shot speed. The last is simply an improvement in the firmware. Does Sony bother to apply that improvement also to the 707 model? Of course not. Go, and buy the new 717 instead.

The idea is that Sony hopes to "pursuade" (you want to run Windows XP? You want to enhance the startup speed of your camera?) its customers to always upgrade to the latest products.

Other companies have different policies. For instance, I own a car navigation system by Harman/Becker. The Becker Traffic Pro has been on the market for about 4 years, and it is still one of the best navigation systems (for those who don't need digital maps). In the meantime, the software has been upgraded 6 times. And the software doesn't come cheap (100-200$); yet, it is still cheaper than buying a totally new navigation system. The trick: Equip the hardware with enough technology so that it will also be upgradeable for a forseeable future (DSP, Ram, CPU, etc).

Oh and if you ask me why I still own Sony technology - my company has a contract with Sony so everything we buy comes from Sony. And I love my Clie....

[ballistic]

Maybe everyone should read this (http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/4985418.htm) article, listen to the message that the Sony executives are conveying, and calm down (this article helped allay my concerns).

"Miniaturize, that's Sony's DNA." Sony is constantly pushing the technological envelope of the Clies, moving forward at a very fast pace. They want to build 'impossible dream gadgets', NOT bulkier handhelds. They want to 'change the way people think about handheld computers.'

That's why there's a steady flow of models. Period.

[nlode]

Originally posted by ballistic


"Miniaturize, that's Sony's DNA." Sony is constantly pushing the technological envelope of the Clies, moving forward at a very fast pace.

So why is the NZ bigger? Everyone wants gadgets to converge, but we still expect them to have a reasonable size. My ideal PDA would OS5, Virtual Graffiti, Dual MS slots, and the size of the SJ30.

But I agree that Sony keeps releasing new models so they can try in the market new stuff; and their customer service sucks (remember the N710 upgrade mess).

[ballistic]

Originally posted by nlode


So why is the NZ bigger? Everyone wants gadgets to converge, but we still expect them to have a reasonable size. My ideal PDA would OS5, Virtual Graffiti, Dual MS slots, and the size of the SJ30.


They discuss the NZ's size in the article. The devices will get smaller as technology allows. With the NZ, Sony is showing its vision of 'impossible dream gadgets' with current technology, and they're also saying that over time, devices with the NZ's capabilites WILL get smaller.

I agree that a lot of people would also like to see an OS5 T-series style device with VG. I'm sure something like that is in the pipeline, and it's just a matter of time to work out all of the technological hurdles of building such a device. I think the battery life issue is a major factor, an we'll see removeable lithium-ion batteries in more models.

[SamuraiCatJB]

If you check your market strategies, major electronic advances are made on about 12 month basis, with improvements in the 6 month arena... Nvidia was attempting to do this with their line of cards. ATI has managed to keep the same. Intel advances similar as does Motorola and other chip manufacturers. Sony and other manufacturers try to take advantage of this, if they can. Other manufacturers take the milder 12 month release schedule hoping on long term sales over constant change. Sony is consider a top-end device maker, so they really need to keep up technology.... Thus the 6 month release schedule.

[bucalo9]

Sony, I think, wants to dominate a category owned by Palm and the PPCs. To gain market share they have to provide the same for less $, or provide more for the same $. To really trounce the competition, they do both and in addition add higher end models, to really stay way ahead on innovation. Sony's effectively redefining the category and gaining market share. They'll do this too at lower margins, to make the Sony name synonymous with palm-top computing. Has Sony surpassed the competition yet? I think Sony will slow down when they have that commanding lead.

[ballistic]

Or, if you're really pushing the envelope and truly innovating like Sony, 3-6 months. I can understand how a lot people are put off by this, but it's price the we have to pay if we want our Clies to be the best PDAs. If you don't like it, don't by a Sony.

Look at all of the features that appeared first on the Clies for a Palm device. Hi-Res color screens, VG, 66MHz Dragonball processor, 200 MHz ARM processor, MP3 support, MP4 video support, integrated camera for still & video, etc. If it weren't for Sony, we'd be stuck with the lack of true innovation that is painfully apparent at Palm. I'm not knocking the TT, but compared to the NX, it is only mediocre IMHO.

I questioned Sony's motivation and vision in releasing the NZ at first. Now that I've heard their message about their vision for PDAs from watching the cNet video and reading the Mercury New's article, I've had an epiphany.

It's all good.

[Importluva]

I agree with what many of you have said. Sony wants to make money, and they do so by being the best. They release so many handhelds to keep up with their new technology, as well as the new technology that was released in the public from other companies. They want to be the best, and when people think of TVs, they think SONY is a great name, you don't really hear compact disc player, you hear discman, you don't hear portable cassette player, you hear walkman. Sony did this by keepin ahead of others in their tech and they are bringin this over to PDAs. Sooner or later, they prolly hope that when someone thinks of a handheld, SONY is the first name that they will think about.

[Medcat99]

I have a question. Do you all think that Sony is releasing products as quickly as the engineers come out with them or do they have a "secret closet" somewhere and pull devices out of there as they see fit? The pace at which Sony develops makes me think that as soon as they turn out a device, they get it to market. It just seems odd that a company wouldn't hold back a little and release when they have the economic need. My point: I wonder if there are high end devices beyond even the NZ that are just waiting to be pulled from the closet and launched on the public. The technology that is being introduced today does not necessarily have to represent the technology of the future. It may have been technology that was developed 2-3 years before and just released today. What I wouldn't give to know a Sony insider. I feel like upgrading to a new PDA is similiar to playing the stock market. You never REALLY know if you are getting a true state of the art device.

[lino-man]

Originally posted by Medcat99
. You never REALLY know if you are getting a true state of the art device.

I think this is why I am switching over to the Sharp Zaurus in part. I can't see my self forking over big $$ for the latest Clie, only to know that there is something about it that has lemon issues and that a new one will be replacing it in 3 months! How in heck can you possibly do a thorough beta testing of every last one of these products? Flooding the market or trying to satisfy the Japanese desire for "latest and the greatest" just doesn't make sense to me. At least, as I have stated, thats not what I am looking for. Give me tried and true, a product that the company can stand behind because its their flagship for the next two years.

[hherbzilla]

I don't really see what is the big deal. Sony is known for innovation and they want to dominate the market. Obviously we haven't reached saturation with PDAs yet (like TVs, where just about every home has one or more), so it makes sense for them to stay on the technology curve and to keep pumping out these babies. When someone is ready to buy a PDA for the first time -- or upgrade -- they obviously hope Sony comes to mind. They want you to think when you buy a Sony, you get cool design and the latest/greatest technology.

The pace of change is sometimes frustrating, but that's what keeps the industry so interesting. When you buy a computer, you know that faster processors, bigger hard drives, faster optical media, better graphics, etc. are always just around the corner. The trick is to understand your needs before you buy and try to make an informed decision.

[ptiger]

Sony IS NOT a software company which is why they don't do a whole lot with drivers and such. I know this because I once participated in buying a software product line from Sony. The code was awful, but the patents weren't too bad.

That being said, Sony revs hardware at a pace that MATCHES software. Their design and manufacturing processes are astoundingly rapid. Looking at the NX and the NZ its astonishingly clear that they make solutions to problems in hardware, not software. The ability of a machine to execute software is sort of an "etc" for Sony.

Anyway, I'm helplessly addicted. I'm one of those wrecks that upgrades everytime Sony comes out with a new version. God have mercy on me.

[utahjazz85]

Originally posted by cbulock


Right, I imagine that they have no desire to make money. :rolleyes: I think the reason they keep up with releases is that they always have a top of the line device. That way, people will buy the device. Then they will make money. I think that we all can agree that Clie's are top of the line, can't we. Thats why we buy them. Money is probably the biggest thing on Sony's mind. What else would they want?

I wonder how many other people thought I wasn't being scarcastic?

[utahjazz85]

Originally posted by turcic.com


Why is that so? I disagree.

I own a Sony Digiphotocam, a Sony Digivideocam, a Sony Notebook, and a Sony Handheld. Let's say I have my experiences with Sony equipment. Fact is, Sony gives a s**t about customer support. When there is a problem with a product, what they do is, instead of fixing the problem (like releasing a new firmware or OS), they release a new version of the hardware. Examples:

When I bought my Sony notebook, it came with Windows 2000. 3 months later MS released Windows XP. Until today, there are no official drivers for my notebook available. Comment Sony support: You need to upgrade to notebook model xyz in order to run Windows XP.

I own a Sony DSC 707 Digicam (5.1mio pixels). Worst thing about it is the slow startup speed. Not even 3 months later, Sony released the DSC 717. Changes: new manual focus and manual zoom ring, hot shoe for external flash units, USB 2.0 support, and improved startup and shot-to-shot speed. The last is simply an improvement in the firmware. Does Sony bother to apply that improvement also to the 707 model? Of course not. Go, and buy the new 717 instead.

The idea is that Sony hopes to "pursuade" (you want to run Windows XP? You want to enhance the startup speed of your camera?) its customers to always upgrade to the latest products.

Other companies have different policies. For instance, I own a car navigation system by Harman/Becker. The Becker Traffic Pro has been on the market for about 4 years, and it is still one of the best navigation systems (for those who don't need digital maps). In the meantime, the software has been upgraded 6 times. And the software doesn't come cheap (100-200$); yet, it is still cheaper than buying a totally new navigation system. The trick: Equip the hardware with enough technology so that it will also be upgradeable for a forseeable future (DSP, Ram, CPU, etc).

Oh and if you ask me why I still own Sony technology - my company has a contract with Sony so everything we buy comes from Sony. And I love my Clie....

Christ.

[bucalo9]

Right. This stuff is not made in a vacuum. It's tied to the OS, wifi, digicam, and other development lines. Tie that into the release of competing products and the regular shopping seasons, and you get an aggressive sales strategy.

Hey, that article also compared the NZ to concept cars of the auto industry. Perhaps like a Chrysler Prowler, or PT Cruiser. Both those cars were once high concept. Both lead trends and strengthened the Chrysler brands.

But, I really think Sony believes there is a market for a portable mulitmedia computer. And, they're also testing the demand. And at the least, if the NZ doesn't sell well, they gain brand equity in the category.

[Blazefire]

Don't R&D departments always have products that are always like 2 years ahead of what they already have on the market (ie. when the NR70 came out, Sony probably was working on the NZ90, and probably already was tweaking the NX). Imagine what it would be like in the Clie R&D department? Techno-kid in a candy store I say....

[timewaster77]

I think part of the reason the NZ was released was so that it grabbed customer attention to the Clie line. Additionally it makes the NX look sleek and slim even with the CF slot.

[bucalo9]

You saying, like, I'd have a better chance picking up chicks at the bar, if I hang with my two ugly buds?:D

I was playing with an NR at Circuit City today, and I did find it sleeker than my NX.

[bucalo9]

It had dark blue, or maybe black sides. Like it was 2-tone.

[clie_wannabe]

Originally posted by Blazefire
Don't R&D departments always have products that are always like 2 years ahead of what they already have on the market (ie. when the NR70 came out, Sony probably was working on the NZ90, and probably already was tweaking the NX). Imagine what it would be like in the Clie R&D department? Techno-kid in a candy store I say....

if your browser can at least handle japanese characters, and/or you can read japanese; try this - The Making of Clie (http://www.jp.sonypdadev.com/magazine/20021019/index.html) ... as you'd find on the page, there is this "abby-san," with a hidden face <-- that is the person responsible for the development of the clie... according to my friends at sony-japan; not most sony employees even know who the real "abby-san" is...

[clie_wannabe]

oooppppsss!!!! big mistake!!!
that was the wrong URL!!!
those three are well-know palm app programmers in japan, and are not connected to the development of the clie... i have the real article in a quarterly palm magazine (in japanese) but couldnt seem to find the url for it...
ill post asap...
sorry...

[Spiral]

Uh...li don't know about that NR, but my NR is definately silver and white.

Anyways, I think Sony releases models so often because so they can try to make a model for "everybody." For example, you can take the same model, give it a black and white screen (cheaper for basic people), color screen (higher-end), 8 mb (cheaper), 16 mb. And then you can have camera/no camera. And then you can take the same model, shift the internals around to a new shape, and make it thinner for people who love their thin clie's.

Another reason is that they want you to buy their new products as a "upgrade," rather than getting new software, selling a 50 dollar software is less profit than a 500 dollar device. And...even if the profit in matters of ratios are the same, if 10 people upgrade their software, only 1 person has to upgrade their device for the same profit.

And for the peopel who want the latest and greatest (a pretty good number of people in this forum i think), they want to upgrade too (this thread alone proves it).

Bucalo9 stated that sony wants a pocket-sized multimedia machine, but how much multimedia can you fit in 11 mbs, even in 16 mbs, you can't fit much.

Sony makes nice hardware, but their software support is bad, so...only buy things that will never need a software upgrade! (headphones come to mind, possibly MD/CD players)

[clie_wannabe]

Originally posted by clie_wannabe
oooppppsss!!!! big mistake!!!
that was the wrong URL!!!
those three are well-know palm app programmers in japan, and are not connected to the development of the clie... i have the real article in a quarterly palm magazine (in japanese) but couldnt seem to find the url for it...
ill post asap...
sorry...

okay... i think ive gotten the correct url... please do check this thread (http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1751) out...

:D

[bucalo9]

No, really it was blue trim.

Those are definately ways Sony has created multiple price points. Now the highest, most expensive model can run for as long as you supply charged batteries. As for the RAM point, I also agree, but that will be doubled in the next model. Need to if programs become more powerful. More will be written in that direction if the NX is successful.

[phattie]

When the average consumer goes to BestBuy etc.. to shop for a PDA Sony wants them to be blown away by their line of CLIEs.

It's like putting a Ferrari in a Saturn dealership...some people may eventually go for the more inexpensive pdas but they're going to leave thinking 'wow...those sonys are pretty neat'.

[Jeffry]

All of this success could collapse sooner or later... right?

[turcic.com]

Originally posted by utahjazz85


Christ.

No I am still human.

[xlr8]

I just think sony should provide update patches for the latest OS, like 5.2 with graffitti 2, then people wouldnt get all the latest features but at least they could have some software which would mean more people like sony so they have a larger group of followers then sony can gain profits by having a huge market share. Say that in one breath :P

And remember you old clies are obselete they're just outdated (they still work as good as the day your bought it, hopefully)