Apt 2.0.1 causes softresets

[Feinbein]

Hi,
I would really like to use Apt es my ButtonLauncher, but on my Centro it causes Softresets.
First I defined a PopUpList for Hard1 with Phone and pTunes as items to start. To launch pTunes and any other apps from any other application except phone it works fine, but if actual app is phone, launching ptunes or Agendus (with Apt) causes a softreset.
I used hbx before and there where no softresets.

Anyone has an idea?

Ludwig

[bluefishCFC]

I do not have a centro, but I found certain button launching problems were cured by setting the Apt priority (menu>settings>Apt priority) to low.

Try the different options and see if one works.

[Feinbein]

thank you, but has no effect.

I found, that if i was in phone and started buttonlist of Apt, but did no action with it, go back to Phone app., no action in phone app. is possible, phone is hanging. Then pressing standard home button also a softreset occurs. This is only in Phone app. in combination with Apt.

[bluefishCFC]

If it is not too much trouble, perhaps you could copy the Apt DB to your card and then delete it from RAM, then try to rebuild just that pop up list to see if it still crashes.
If it does not, then you may have a corrupted DB.

[Feinbein]

well, I destalled it and installed it again (out of standard launcher), after this the same effects.
Is there anyone Centro User who can say, this works?

[bluefishCFC]

I think you misunderstood Feinbein :)
I meant just delete the Apt DB using filez or Resco Explorer, having copied it first to a card, and then set up your problem menu by itself within Apt.
In RAM there are several files attributed to Apt, the main program file .prc, the
Apt Assist, the key file if registered and the Apt DB.
If you still have problems then someone with a centro will have to come to your aid.

[Feinbein]

no, I think i didn't misunderstand you. I Think deinstalling should delete application with all databases.
Anyway, today I did what you wrote, but same effect as before.

[Feinbein]

New result:
The same with Hard3 works, no crash starting an app out of Phone application. Seems there is a correlation with the standard button preferences. What can I do to use my list with Hard1?

[technical1]

Feinbein,

Actually, bluefish is on the right track. I have been a beta tester since early on w/Apt & one of the solutions that have served me well is to copy down - on paper - all of one's settings fm every part of Apt, including settings for all apps & those in the main menu's Settings section as well & then delete the current one & recreate fm scratch based on what you wrote down. This way you will not be deleting & just restoring a possibly corrupt Apt.db...

This has helped me & I suggested it to others.

Be cool. You can trust me, Pent, the original author did & he even mentioned me, along with others in the "Thanks" section of the menu for testing & suggestions.....

By all means, follow bluefish's advice about copying the Apt.db file somewhere onto your card (besides /Launcher) & you can always have a record... (maybe rename it to aptold.db, so you can save later, good versions based on the default filename...)

Hope this helps & post your results after trying this, so you can get the best of what everyone here can add...

BTW, it might be better to try to set Apt's sensitivity to medium, hi, or v. hi.
Experimenting w/this a little might just be beneficial.

Please note, I've been using Apt on my Centro since June, both v1.3 & 2.x. It has worked fine for me, for the vast majority of things. Just be more patient.
FWIW, I have Apt Priority at V. High... but your usage may vary; depending on what other apps you have in RAM; esp. the ones that are resident in memory i.e. pop-ups, etc.

See the fine free application PalmInternals (don't recall exactly where I got it, but you can google it) & in the bottom left corner, tap on the Notify button & then look underneath the "hede" section; there you will find all apps that are "resident" in your RAM. It is a very useful troubleshooting tool & can even give you a better understanding of how your Palm works.

Good luck!,

[scottl]

Just a quick hint to make configuration documentation easier. You can write all those settings if you want, but I'd recommend a screen capture program - I use ScreenDumpDA. Then just go to each page in Apt and dump the screen. Copy these files to a PC and (if you choose to) rename them to something that makes sense. Then when you go to reconfig Apt, just go to the PC and scroll through your screenshots! I've done this too many times and it helped me through.

I use this method to capture many types of info from my Palm. Beside, even I can't read my writing sometimes.

[bluefishCFC]

What a brilliant idea scottl.
I can use that in other reconfigs too.

Thanks

Andy

[JavaJiveJump]

It is an awesome app (by our own Pruss) and it's a great idea.

http://www.freewarepalm.com/utilities/screendumpda.shtml

[Feinbein]

thank you all for those tips, but there is no success for me. Ok, i'm a 51 year old German and my English is a little poor, so I may have difficults to understand your instructions. But please do not misunderstand me, i'm working with computers since over 20 years (Ok most HOSTS) and I use Palms almost from the beginning (Palm III), so I think to have some 'feelings' for this little helper.

What I try to say is, that I did not configure a lot of settings in Apt. The only one was a list in the Buttons section for hard1 with two Applications, looking like this:

0 Hrd1 App Phone
> App pTunes

Of course in the meantime i've tried it many times, to delete Apt db, to copy Apt db on card and so on ... but every time I use only these two settings (there are no other settings in Apt), my Centro crashes when leaving Phone app with this hard1 list. I also tried it with the different settings of priority.
Can anyone confirm that he is using these two (maybe more, but these two) settings on a Centro?

Thanks
Ludwig

[cyberdude]

Just a quick hint to make configuration documentation easier. You can write all those settings if you want, but I'd recommend a screen capture program - I use ScreenDumpDA. Then just go to each page in Apt and dump the screen. Copy these files to a PC and (if you choose to) rename them to something that makes sense. Then when you go to reconfig Apt, just go to the PC and scroll through your screenshots! I've done this too many times and it helped me through.

I use this method to capture many types of info from my Palm. Beside, even I can't read my writing sometimes.
I do the same thing as Scott, but I use HRCaptDA which is also free. See my sig for a partial review of screen capture utilities.

But my main complaint is that this is a rather cumbersome way to save a configuration. this is especially true when you have made adjustments on many apps.

[technical1]

thank you all for those tips, but there is no success for me. Ok, i'm a 51 year old German and my English is a little poor, so I may have difficults to understand your instructions. But please do not misunderstand me, i'm working with computers since over 20 years (Ok most HOSTS) and I use Palms almost from the beginning (Palm III), so I think to have some 'feelings' for this little helper.

What I try to say is, that I did not configure a lot of settings in Apt. The only one was a list in the Buttons section for hard1 with two Applications, looking like this:

0 Hrd1 App Phone
> App pTunes

Of course in the meantime i've tried it many times, to delete Apt db, to copy Apt db on card and so on ...
Ludwig, I hope that when you said "and so on" you meant that you copied the Apt.db file to the card, deleted the one in RAM & from whichever method you used to copy your settings, that you recreated a new copy of the Apt.db file. In the past, your what you said sounds like you think that just deleting it & restoring it would help. If the original Apt.db file is corrupt, it won't help.

If you did this, please understand I was just checking to make sure that the language issue is not getting in the way & the recreation of a fresh Apt.db can be helpful, although based on what I will write later, I think I have the answer...

Beyond that approach, I would try to use a different application besides Phone to put in a pop-up list w/pTunes. Just to isolate what (perhaps which app) is causing the problem. Otherwise, maybe try using a different trigger key besides 0 Hrd1.....

On my Centro, I just set 2 oHrd1 Apps Phone (oHrd1 is Treo Optionkey+Hrd1)
> Apps pTunes

and when I press the Option+Hrd1 trigger for 2 seconds, a dialog pops up w/Phone, so I release the keys & a menu of Phone & pTunes comes up & I can get both of them to launch from that menu.

Just because you use just that one popup menu in Apt; it doesn't mean that the trigger of 1 Hrd1 isn't conflicting w/some other app (or app setting or preference) you have set on your Centro.

By all means, go to apt-palm.wikidot.com & use the tutorials & documentation to learn how to use Apt more to make your Centro easier to use. There are plenty of simple things like time Prefs in Default for AutoOff.... that you can use for all of your apps, or you can add changes that will apply to an app that you add a setting for in the Apt list- for example you could set AutoOff for NVBackup to 600, so you don't have the screen go blank for 5 minutes, so you are sure to see any messages the come up during a backup....

And if you are not using NVBackup, you should, it is one of the best backup solutions for the Palm & it is free.

Good luck,

[technical1]

scottl,

Thanks for a great idea. Why didn't I think of that?

That's the 2nd time you have helped me out w/a good idea. At least.

[Feinbein]

yes, I did delete the Apt db.

I tried other Applications like TealLaunch, hbx, DBLP, MultiLauncher and all without this error.

I can Launch any app from any button with a list of Apt. But if the actual (the running app) is Phone then launching any other app with Apt list causes a softreset.

Well, it would be nice to configure all this things in Apt, but why should I, when this (for me) important thing doesn't work? And while this isn't working, there is a bad feeling about other features, maybe there is a bug, how and when does it result?

Thank you very much for your postings, but what else can I do?

[scottl]

Thanks for a great idea. Why didn't I think of that?Glad I could make life easier for you. Back in the day when I was huge into overclocking my PCs I used to take pictures of my BIOS screens! I bet I have a couple hundred of those images I could now delete out of a subfolder under My Pictures! Once booted I used (and still do) screen captures for all kinds of stuff.

I'm a doc freak. I have a folder for everything computer in my house. It's divided into several sections with text files, hints & tips, screen caps, etc for anything out of the ordinary I do to my computers. I have a similar folder for another hobby of mine that has printout of a downloaded pdf for every item in my collection. Then it has pockets for receipts and other paperwork. I can find nearly anything I need in that binder. Of course, most of it is in my Treo as well. :)

[technical1]

yes, I did delete the Apt db.
Ludwig, did you recreate Apt.db or simply restore it? I will try a little German that I studied a long time ago: darf machen a neier Apt.db... nit brengen der alter Apt.db tzuruk fon der SD... I mention this even though you have experience w/computing & Palms, because it could be a language thing & you never actually mentioned anything about 'machen a neier' Apt.db , you only spoke about deleting the old one, which if you restore it from backup is only going to restore the same problem.

I tried other Applications like TealLaunch, hbx, DBLP, MultiLauncher and all without this error.

I can Launch any app from any button with a list of Apt. But if the actual (the running app) is Phone then launching any other app with Apt list causes a softreset. Why would you try to run an Apt popup that has Phone in it if you are in the Phone application?

You should try to list pTunes as a favorite in Apt (favorites are in the middle section of the Prefs+ heading, at the bottom of that middle section... & just assign an Apt trigger to bring up a list of all of your favorites; this should also work well when you are in the Phone app, or any other app.

Well, it would be nice to configure all this things in Apt, but why should I, when this (for me) important thing doesn't work? And while this isn't working, there is a bad feeling about other features, maybe there is a bug, how and when does it result?

Since you have other apps that do similar functions as Apt, you may just have a memory usage conflict (as in memory address conflict). You should be able to assign pTunes to a Press & hold Apt trigger, so you can launch pTunes in any screen. Just go to Prefs+ header, check off Fav1, Fav2, etc. & then in the Buttons header, assign the following to a trigger-
(#) xHrd Fill Fave# (the # is for whichever number you use). Then you will have a list of favorites popup. This may be a better approach of how to use Apt for the need you have with the popup menu you originally tried.

You can do this in the Graffiti heading in the main screen & use the following Apt 'formula' -> Let+ App pTunes & when you are done entering this, you need to fill in the little circle on the far left of that line by tapping on it & pressing whichever letter is convenient for you to launch pTunes & then Apt will always bring up pTunes after you press and hold that letter for a second or so.

This can be a workaround, or substitute idea for getting pTunes to run while you are in Phone to solve this problem. Or you could try assigning something besides 0 Hrd1 as a trigger for your popup menu.... I could get a popup menu with both Phone & pTunes to successfully launch from the Apt popup menu on my Centro.... & that is in addition to many other things I have Apt set up to do for my Centro...

Thank you very much for your postings, but what else can I do?

You could also make sure that the other apps that do the same thing aren't conflicting - for example - use the same settings (like Hrd1 i.e. hbx) or maybe even turn off those similar features in those other apps, so they won't conflict. You could even this on a trial basis, you can always go back to the way it was before.

BTW, I hope you still don't have all of those apps running at the same time on your Centro - Teal Launch & hbx & MultiLaunch do the same things & you should be able to get Apt to replace hbx, if not Teal Launch & MultiLaunch; but it seems to me that you shouldn't have both TL & ML enabled on your Centro at the same time.

BTW, You can launch apps from within Apt, just use the Go button in the upper right of the main screen.

Otherwise, at this point, without more information like how you tried to make the Apt popup menu, which you only recently shared; I don't know what to tell you- because as I mentioned in my previous post - I was able to get a popup menu with Phone & pTunes to work on my Centro with Apt..... Maybe try to find someone who is also good with Palms & speaks both English & German well.... it could be you are missing something in the translation, or in the nuances of words. This person could also help you go to the wiki to translate for you what is in the Learn Apt section...

Bottom line, it could be something else that is corrupt & is causing a conflict across your device. I just tried & didn't like an add-on for Documents-To-Go a few weeks ago, but stopped using it & when I tried to make a new document last night I got an error message. Dataviz, the company that makes DTG has had reports of just such problems & had a file to fix this on their website & after using their fix, my Centro is behaving better...

You never know... don't be quick to point fingers at a new app, you don't have enough experience with to really appreciate what it can & can't do & I can get your popup menu to work on my Centro, using this formula:
2 oHrd2 App Phone
> App pTunes

so it is probably a conflict, or corrupt file / database & not necessarily a problem with Apt. You are only using a very small amount of what Apt can do for you - there is no reason why just one popup menu in Apt would be the cause of your problem. I have 8 items in my Buttons section, more in Prefs & Prefs+, and Graffiti & other people use even more & it works for us.... darfs du trachten a bissel noch...

I thought my previous advice about using a different trigger would fix your problem, but try my other suggestions about favorites & not really needing to keep using hbx - Apt can do the re-assignments & a lot more. Hope this helps.

Good luck,

[Pgr]

Perhaps technical1's suggestion of a possible conflict is the most probable.

You can look for a conflict by trying a warm-reset (a kind of safe-mode), then enabling Apt, then testing your crash situation. If it is solved, then that would indicate that some other app is interfering.

You can get clues by running PalmInternals (NOT after a warm-reset; do it after a normal reset) and seeing who's hooking events like 'hede' and others...

If for some reason you can't test this with a warm-reset, you could even try a hard-reset (if you are willing to destroy ALL your data, and confident on your ability to restore from NVBackup or similar).

You get the point, the idea is to isolate Apt as the only thing possibly working on your device at that time, apart from the OS stuff, of course.

[rangga]

I'm also experiencing the same issue with the Fill function in phone and Blazer aplications. Reset Doctor shows system crash error: "Form.c, Lines:2978, invalid index". Tried in 1.3 full and 2.02, with new apt.db.

[Feinbein]

@technical1:
haha, sorry your German was very funny, I hope my english isn't it the same way.

I did recreate Apt db, of course.

sorry, seems you didn't read my posting exactly. I wrote

I can Launch any app from any button with a list of Apt. But if the actual (the running app) is Phone then launching any other app with Apt list causes a softreset.

That means what it says, the running app. is 'Phone' then pressing hard1 the list of Apt appears with two items 'Phone' and 'pTunes'. Then navdown to the second item, the textfield of the first item gets empty, then pressing center, the Centro crashes.

Well, i tested every time with deactivating TL, ML, hbx ... I even moved them with dbs to card, an tried it even out of standard launcher, without zLauncher as actual home.

All the other launchers could have been running at the same time without crashes.

Now I try it with your tipps, more about this later.

[Feinbein]

OK, today I made a hardreset and after this, the first and only application I've installed was Apt, then only made my hard1 list with 2 items: phone and ptunes. And what should I say, my centro crashes again.

Sorry technical1, you can say what you want, I think this is a bug.

[technical1]

what can I say, that combination works on my Centro, maybe you have a different Centro in Europe than the American Verizon Centro; because I get a menu with Phone & pTunes using a different trigger i.e. 2 oHrd2.....hold & press OptionKey & Hrd2 for two seconds... maybe it is a hardware thing? Can you try it on another Centro at the place where you bought yours?

I still believe that you would do better to use Apt differently. If you are calling that popup menu - with Phone & pTunes from within Phone.... I would assign Let+ App pTunes so you can pop pTunes up from within any application. Assigning Phone to a Let+ seems pointless, you can always just press the Green button on the left of the 5way navigator.

It also just occured to me that it could be an internal OS thing, that calling a popup menu including Phone, from within Phone could be a potential problem, or consider how pTunes behaves when it is working in the background, while you have other apps currently running.

However, since I can get it to work on my Centro & you can't, even after a fresh install, it speaks of your Phone pTunes popup having internal OS code problems, or hardware differences - again, because it works on my Centro.

Why don't you post this, with all the details about how you tested over on the wiki?
The address is apt-palm.wikidot.com & maybe the people there can help, or the new developer who took over development of Apt will see it...

[notmuch]

FWIW, I could not reproduce the bug on my Verizon Centro with the config:

0 Hrd1 App Phone
> App pTunes

But, based on Feinbein's description of a clean install of only Apt after a hard reset, it's pretty clear this is a bug in Apt, at least with the GSM Centro.

I've managed to create all sorts of resets with Apt as I've dug deeper into its wonderful capabilities. I got the dreaded corrupted Apt-DB and solved it with a hard reset... thank you NVBackup! One thing I have learned, is it not just conflicting hede or "resident" stuff causing problems, but settings within an application can create crashes.

As an example, Diddlebug has settings for programming various operations to the Hrd buttons. I had Diddlebug assigned to Hrd1, and set Hrd1 in the Diddlebug options to create a new note. I got resets sometimes when doing hold Hrd1 operations through Apt. When I turned off the button options in Diddlebug, no more crashes. (Ironically, I recreated the same capability using Apt)

With that in mind, Feinbein, I would play with the startup options in the Phone app, dialpad vs wallpaper, typing dials vs search, etc and see if that has any effect. Maybe that can help get the bug fixed.

[Pent]

After spending quite a lot of time fixing device-and-application-specific bugs, I eventually came to the conclusion that I would never be able to fix them all due to the sheer number of combinations.

As such, if you are getting resets with a particular feature, I would just accept that you can't have this feature with that device/app (using Apt) at this time, and continue experimenting with all the things that *do* work.

Phone and Blazer are two of the apps that Apt has problems interacting with, though I'm surprised a popup list would cause problems, especially on one button but not on another.

Pent

[scottl]

About a month ago I started having a strange problem with Apt 1.3b3 and TAKEphONE.

When I'm in TAKEphONE I can't get the 0 (zero) key to work unless I hold it for half a second or so. If I disable Apt or enable "Triggers Off" for just TAKEphONE the zero works fine.

The only Apt mods I have for TP are to disable actions on all 4 NAV buttons because they don't behave well in TP with Apt in charge.

Any thoughts? What would grab just that one darn "dedicated" numeric key?

[cyberdude]

About a month ago I started having a strange problem with Apt 1.3b3 and TAKEphONE.

When I'm in TAKEphONE I can't get the 0 (zero) key to work unless I hold it for half a second or so. If I disable Apt or enable "Triggers Off" for just TAKEphONE the zero works fine.

The only Apt mods I have for TP are to disable actions on all 4 NAV buttons because they don't behave well in TP with Apt in charge.

Any thoughts? What would grab just that one darn "dedicated" numeric key?
I don't have TP so I can't say for sure, but I know in Audible the app checks for 0 keypress in order to make a bookmark. Try looking through the TP docs (if you haven't already) to see if TP has anything like that.

[Jaap Steilberg]

Anyone has an idea?

LudwigHey Ludwig, isn't it Strong Beer Season in Munich right now?
Jaap

[rangga]

I have been using TP 7.70(0.14) and Apt 1.3 final without any issue. Did you use 0 for any trigger in Apt? Did you use Butler and activate keylauncher?

Out of curiosity, what version of phone app does verizon has? Mine shows v.3.5A by Access.

About a month ago I started having a strange problem with Apt 1.3b3 and TAKEphONE.

When I'm in TAKEphONE I can't get the 0 (zero) key to work unless I hold it for half a second or so. If I disable Apt or enable "Triggers Off" for just TAKEphONE the zero works fine.

[scottl]

Did you use 0 for any trigger in Apt? Did you use Butler and activate keylauncher?Sprint 755p uses Palm Phone app v2.5 by Palm and I'm TP 7.70 (014) over it. I don't touch zero in any Apt profile. Finally, I use Butler, but don't use its keylauncher. Disabling Butler makes no difference either...

I used CleanStart to do a "Nice warm reset" so none of my crazy apps were loaded at startup. I went directly to TP and zero worked fine. Then I went to the Plam Launcher and enabled Apt and relaunched TP - zero didn't work. So it seems to be a TP/Apt conflict. I'm not concerned, but after TP ran for a few seconds the phone reset. After trying the same steps again I had another reset. Hmm...

[technical1]

After spending quite a lot of time fixing device-and-application-specific bugs, I eventually came to the conclusion that I would never be able to fix them all due to the sheer number of combinations.

As such, if you are getting resets with a particular feature, I would just accept that you can't have this feature with that device/app (using Apt) at this time, and continue experimenting with all the things that *do* work.

Thanks, Pent, for your voice of reason; maybe people will get it that there are ways around problems in all of computing, esp. handheld & since Apt's author has now pointed this out - maybe they will move on to using another approach to make Apt work, like a different trigger, or using Faves or Let+ to get the functionality that was sought; although I don't think that if one has only one entry in Apt- a popup menu that has phone & pTunes, why would you do it that way? Especially when the problem came up when launching fm Phone app....

Phone and Blazer are two of the apps that Apt has problems interacting with, though I'm surprised a popup list would cause problems, especially on one button but not on another.

I didn't have probs w/a diff trigger for the same popup menu that was originally presented, however, I have a Verizon Wireless, CDMA base Centro & the OP is using a Centro that is based on another technology; so it stands to reason that there will be differences in the base OS...

I anticipated a hardware based problem after seeing the report on how a clean reboot after hard reset still presented the same problem. There is only so much an app can do & yet because Apt does so much, it seems that people want it to do everything.

[Feinbein]

>>With that in mind, Feinbein, I would play with the startup options in the Phone app, dialpad vs wallpaper, typing dials vs search, etc and see if that has any effect. Maybe that can help get the bug fixed.<<

Well, I tried several options in phone, dialpad, wallpaper with always the same effect.

As I know, that there is at least one bug, I am giving up, because i don't know where else are other bugs. I am rid of making softresets ;-) and I am going on to use hbx and TealLaunch again. This two apps i am using over years on different hardware simultaneously without any problem. Not elegant as Apt but sure.

I think Apt is overloaded with features, so its very hard to get solutions for all bugs on all different hardware.

Thank you all for your support, specially to technical1 for his patience.

[technical1]

Feinbein,

You can only logically conclude that the feature you had problems with has a bug & it is more likely a combination of your GSM device & Apt.

You need not use Apt as your default launcher, but hbx is not necessarily better than Apt & since Apt does so much more... You should realize that it is an unusual case because I can assign a trigger to make a popup menu for Phone & pTunes.

I still think that you could get the same benefits by using either Let+ or adding apps to your Apt favorites list... one issue does not a complete trial make. There is a whole section of Learning Apt & Tutorials & Examples on how to use Apt on the wiki & there is also a forum there where others will be able to help.

The per-app features controlling environmental stuff is very useful. I just used it to set AutoOff to 0, so I could drain my battery more quickly, to do pro-active battery maintenance.... or set it longer than normal for my Scrabble word game, where I have to think for longer periods without doing anything w/my device.. so it is very helpful.

It is not so much that Apt is overloaded w/features, but it uses the underlying aspects of the OS to different purposes very well. It is more complex than most other apps, but you can use a few features without getting all that involved & then there are the Examples & Tutorials & Learning Apt sections on the wiki.

Be aware that Apt may react differently on a GSM device, but I think you shouldn't let it put you off. One trigger the way you wanted it to be set on for one application of use is not an empirical trial.

Try using the Let+ or Favorites method I mentioned to do what you wanted. If you need help, go to the wiki, or post a question somewhere....

Good luck,

[davidr173]

at least i can confirm, that apt crashes in the telephone app, when the apt menu is invoked with the long hard4 press and you want to tap on any button of apt's menu.
clean install of apt, no other apps defined, left preferences at apt's default.

centro GSM ;)