1src Forums - Palm Pre - Your thoughts?

jomo

01-09-2009, 11:07 AM

If this were released two years ago, it would be a solid (and innovative) product. Now, it's a lot like saying, "yeah, we can do a finger-touchable screen too..." They're doing all the same things that iPhone and Android already do, and they're not providing anything compelling to differentiate themselves. For me, if they hadn't gone down the "cloud-computing" rabbit-hole, I'd probably give this a look, but, frankly, I don't want my personal data stored on somebody's server somewhere in oblivion-land. (You can bet they'll have a standard disclaimer saying "not our fault if your data vaporizes".) Palm, frankly, appears to have decided that writing drivers and programs to sync your data to the desktop was too much money for the customers they believed would want it (another finger in the eye of long-time customers). And as to the HTML-programmable OS? Apple already went down that rabbit-hole. It's funny how fast they changed course. This again strikes me as a way to get something for little expenditure.

Short answer: I guess it's time for me to move on. Nothing really to see here.

Bionic Antboy

01-09-2009, 11:09 AM

This is my first time back to 1src in a long time, since I defected to WinMo (though I still listen to the podcast).

The Palm Web OS is downright revolutionary on a number of levels. Having all your calendars and contacts from multiple sources (Outlook/Exchange/Google/Yahoo/Facebook) amalgamated in one interface, without having to actually shuffle around the source databases is genius.

As soon as it hits Canada, I'm in.

knank

01-09-2009, 12:01 PM

Well, Palm is at last BACK :D.

Just an humour note, WebOs phonetically in Spanish (writted huevos) means Eggs XDDD.

All Spanish talkers will have a lot of fun with the name of this OS, because we can say my palm is running eggs...

CU

eccleshill

01-09-2009, 03:25 PM

...as long as they're not scrambled eggs!

HzR

01-09-2009, 04:12 PM

I've been tempted by the iPhone, Windows Mobile, Nokia N810 and Blackberry in recent months but have been holding on to my Tx till this release. I'm glad I did! My mobile contract is up for renewal, and I decided to decide after this announcement. It's definately going to be a Pre now! (shitty name by the way...) It's everything I want: large screen, keyboard :D, wifi, gps and a great looking new os! I love the way they link contacts, messages etc. very cool! What more do you want for a Tx follow up!?

Only questions: will it run the old Palm software titles, battery life, desktop sync and of course, what's it going to cost?

tsuribito

01-09-2009, 04:44 PM

Palm could have released this 5 years ago. (Well maybe without multitouch)
I hope Palm does not discard the old apps and gives them a good facelift. With a base of thousands of programs and programmers, they have an advantage over Google and Apple. So lets see how this develops.

It is however reassuring to see that Palm is not as dead as I assumed them to be.

astonred

01-09-2009, 07:24 PM

i want it and i want it now

http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/200901081195/palm-pre-and-webos-wows-the-ces-crowd-finally.html

Joel

01-09-2009, 07:45 PM

I want to know if there's an (affordable) unlocked version AND if there's a new App Store (NOT Palmgear).

cms

01-09-2009, 08:05 PM

lol, I posted in two places before I even realized that the new forum was made for it.

My thoughts: THIS IS THE ARSENAL THAT PALM NEEDS IN THE WAR AGAINST APPLE's MANIFEST DESTINY

PALM! NOW DONT SCREW THIS UP!:
The only thing that will determine whether this is a Success or Flub is going to be the Price Point! you got to get it in the 300-400 range, maybe just a tad bit more than the iphone to Assert itself as something superior to the iphone, or lower to reach more customers - its a tricky call to make

Joel

01-09-2009, 08:28 PM

I think the Pre is not out to "kill" any device out there. I'm seeing it more and more as placed between the BlackBerry and iPhone. That is actually something big that Palm has already done IMHO. There are already good first-thoughts and that's good for Palm (and for us!).

The key is an applications store. Palm might go with a web-based site that should go well with WebOS. But anyway, let's see what happens. :)

cms

01-09-2009, 09:44 PM

I had tears of joy when I saw it was Multi-touch and Gestered

LupeValenz

01-10-2009, 01:22 AM

I was clapping as I saw the card background processing. While I was watching the treocentral liveblog I had "The World Ends with You" soundtrack playing and that just pumped up the mood more. I'm curious on what people think the price should be. I believe Ed said something along the line of why make the Pre cheaper than the iPhone since it does more. That said, what is the price range for you? I think I'll be willing to spend 250-399 for this phone. They need to start bringing in back some money and so I think it might be a high price.

ssulux

01-10-2009, 01:30 AM

i'm in.

palm smartly adds more user friendly experience on top of the current trend of multi touch gestures. yes, apple is the one who starts with the multi touch gestures but i feel that the iphone's multi touch gestures become so plain vanila compared to the implementation on this palm webos. plus copy cut paste function and cards to manage activated apps (this is a very2 good implementation for multitasking --- shame on iphone and winmo).

and web browser is amazing compared to blazer. really attractive and adequate for current device.

dataviz and splashdata are listed as partner.
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/20090108/Palm_Partners_540x364.jpg

now, pricing is interesting, rumor says usd399 plus contract? meaning locked?
http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/01/09/palm.pre.gsm.and.price/
i think that usd399 with a contract for 8gb phone is quite expensive.

also how about apps pricing? iphone apps are much cheaper compared palm apps. i bought lot of apps from palmgear long time ago. i think they will introduce new scheme to buy and download the apps. and we still need a way to back up all the apps and data (including pim, photo, song, etc) to our computers.

and heard that it is not compatible with the garnet apps. so all the developers have to port those code to web language. we have no idea at this moment re the response of developers. how many of them are willing to support this new platform?

anyway, it is a good thing that palm could come back.

ssulux

01-10-2009, 01:34 AM

also one more thing that i want to know is if we have a lot more apps in the pre, how the launcher will deal with it? pages like iphone? we have menu category in the garnet. is it still the same?

HzR

01-10-2009, 02:49 AM

In my opinion they looked very hard at all the other operating systems and devices and took all the good things and put it in the Pre package. I don't see any big downsides yet, but I'll wait for the first reviews ;)

I think the WebOS is a bit ahead of it's time. (where have I seen this before, LifeDrive, Foleo) Hopefully this time the implemenation will be right and people will see the advantages. Linking all your information together is very powerful and will be a huge advantage once the whole cloud computing/web based software movement comes into full swing.

A Foleo like device with this os would be awesome too!

As for people who are afraid that all their information will be online: as far as I've seen so far it only takes information from existing web accounts like Gmail, Yahoo, IM or Facebook and puts it together on your device. This is all already out there. If you don't want this, then only sync with your exchange server.

LupeValenz

01-10-2009, 03:07 AM

I believe that I saw that there is multiple pages for apps but as we can see from people complaining about Apple iPhone people want something easier to access. Then again I guess if you want to get to the app you want just type what you want. I think that and my wave favorite is the way I'll be accessing my apps.

Eternal_Visitor

01-10-2009, 04:29 AM

Mark29

01-10-2009, 08:45 AM

Love what I see so far! This could finally be the replacement for my TH55 & Razor cell phone. Not sure I want to switch carriers, but I still have several months on my current contract anyway. By then any major bugs will have been revealed.

Mark

cms

01-10-2009, 10:40 AM

figures that we'd see this sort of thing from a company for which most people have already prepared a eulogy. looks like it'll be a truly worthy successor to the palm legacy.

does that ''activity card'' interface remind anyone else of vista flip3D??

Nope: vista never gave you gestures to manage those windows, close them, or universally search them with only 2 keystrokes

cms

01-10-2009, 10:46 AM

Makes you think:

if it's called the palm pre....
what will be the palm pro? O_O

JAmerican

01-10-2009, 03:40 PM

Makes you think:

if it's called the palm pre....
what will be the palm pro? O_O

Landscape slideout keyboard LOL!

jmg_NX21

01-10-2009, 06:26 PM

=(

I'll wait for the GSM version. I am tempted to switch to Sprint (family is on Sprint)... but instead what I'll probably do is BUY it for my younger bro... so I can play with it... lol

I want to do my part to support PALM!!!

I was pessimistic but HOPING for the best... and I was blown away...

intellidryad

01-10-2009, 08:51 PM

How come there's nothing about the Palm Pre in the 1src news section? :D

JAmerican

01-10-2009, 08:53 PM

I wondered that to. I must say. This site is pretty empty for such a big announcement.

dmitrygr

01-10-2009, 09:58 PM

My reaction:

I don't do the "Web 2.0" crap. If I cannot run C code on it, it is not a platform - it is a joke. didn't apple already try that and fail? I'll instead get this hardware: http://www.pharosgps.com/products/proddetail.asp?prod=001_PTL137_7.90&cat=136

cms

01-11-2009, 12:36 AM

Ok I found the downside to the Pre that was the make/break weather this thing could really outdo the iphone

IT DOESN'T HAVE AN SD SLOT!

If it had one, this thing would instantly make it more valuable than the iphone
40gb (8gb+32gb SD) as opposed to 8

Eternal_Visitor

01-11-2009, 12:40 AM

Nope: vista never gave you gestures to manage those windows, close them, or universally search them with only 2 keystrokes
...not in the exact operation of course, but in the basic look and feel of it.

JAmerican

01-11-2009, 01:27 AM

My reaction:

Damn Dmitry. I must say that device is really nice. It even supports T-Mobile 3G which is a plus. But the battery is pretty weak for such a powerful device. I expect you will be getting two batteries, extended battery or modifying the device's software/hardware configuration to use less energy.

Also, the price is way too much. You really must be loaded from those Palm apps you make lol. Plus, I thought you didn't like Windows Mobile.

freakmarket

01-11-2009, 02:04 AM

ProfJonathan

01-11-2009, 09:20 AM

As a TX user for 3 years or so, I *almost* want a Pre. One issue is the hardware; what was Palm thinking by not including a removable storage slot? I already have 16 GB of removal SDHC storage in my TX, thanks to Dmitry Grinberg's PowerSDHC, so why would I want to downgrade?

Of more importance, but less concern, is the issue of non-Web software and legacy apps (or their replacements). On the one hand, Palm has made sure that it is hyping the always-connected nature of the apps on the Pre, but for those of us who also like to use our handhelds on long plane rides and in places like courthouses where being online is verboten, having apps that don't rely on the Internet is a good thing. If one reads between the lines, though, particularly where Palm says that third parties can write emulators for legacy PalmOS apps, it appears that the Pre may support true coding (rather than just HTML and Javascript), *and* that Palm will be releasing an SDK to third-party developers for such coding. If that's the situation, then I'm confident that any deficiencies in functionality on the software side at launch will quickly be remedied by both professional and amateur programmers, as was the case with the original Palm handhelds. It may just mean that people like me will have to wait a few months or a year before switching over. (That should also give accessory developers time to create Pre cases that include USB connections to MicroSD slots!) {ProfJonathan}

ProfJonathan

01-11-2009, 09:26 AM

ummm ... wow ... so far

I've been watching all the comments over the web and in each thread there is that one person who says "i hope it run old Palm apps" ... no ... that would be like running Windows 7 on a Com. Vic 20 ... not going to happen and NOT any kind of priority.

I think you're missing the point about legacy apps. It's not only that people are wedded to their classic apps, but that the concept of sophisticated offline apps gets carried forward to the Pre. For example, I use both BlueNomad's Wordsmith and Dataviz' Documents to Go on my TX; the former for editing Word docs, and the latter primarily for viewing Office 2003/2007 documents. Neither requires online access, and both are fairly sophisticated, well beyond what can be accomplished in HTML or Javascript. Similarly, as someone who needs access to Hebrew texts on occasion, I use Penticon's Hebrew Lite to provide the language support, and Tealpoint's TealDoc to read the documents. On long airplane rides, I will read stored eBooks with Mobipocket Reader, watch movies using TCMCP, etc. All offline apps, all relatively sophisticated.

Given some of the follow-on discussions, it seems clear that while Palm is hyping the Web part of WebOS, the underlying Linux-based OS will certainly allow for real software running on it. Whether that takes the form of an emulator to run old favorites like Niggle (the pre-Handmark version of Scrabble), or an environment for updated versions of my current productivity apps, that is crucial for the Pre's real success as both a smartphone and TX/Treo successor. {ProfJonathan}

ProfJonathan

01-11-2009, 09:29 AM

My reaction:

It seems clear from some of the discussions with Palm after the launch that real programmers will have a home on the Pre as well. Not only is the OS Linux-based (which legally means that the source for it will have to be released, after all!), but once Palm starts talking (as it has) about third parties writing emulators for the legacy PalmOS apps, that strongly implies a real programming environment and accompanying SDK.

Now let's see about getting Dmitry a Pre to play with, so he can start fixing what Palm gets wrong on the Pre like he has with the TX! {ProfJonathan}

Maticek

01-11-2009, 09:44 AM

I simply love the new Pre, provided that I can get it on a nice contract in Europe or maybe even Sim-Lock free without any contract, it might just replace the iPhone I currently use with the Pre.

Pgr

01-11-2009, 11:35 AM

1 -Any news on the price of this thing?
2- I'm curious about this Palm WebOS? The "Web" thing is just a buzzword, as far as operating systems go, Web connectivity is just an application-level feature. it just means you get online backups, email, etc. An OS is about hardware interaction, basic stuff like file systems, inter-process communication, etc. At that level, what is this? Linux? Then why does Dmitry say it won't run C?

Thanks!

jhox29

01-11-2009, 01:39 PM

Guys,

I'm finding several of you (CMS for starters) who I agree with about the disappointment of not finding a slot for SD or microSD cards. I too think it would be pretty stupid of Palm not to put one in the Pre.

But do we know that for a fact? I've been searching forums and articles, and occasionally I find someone who says it does indeed have a microSD slot, and not confusing it with the microUSB port.

First, can we find someone who can authoritatively say one way or the other?

Second, if the the Pre indeed lacks an expansion slot, whose cage do we need to rattle to get one put in? My impression is that this device is still a work in progress. Let's let "somebody" know a specific direction for that progress.

freakmarket

01-11-2009, 04:06 PM

I think you're missing the point about legacy apps. It's not only that people are wedded to their classic apps, but that the concept of sophisticated offline apps gets carried forward to the Pre. For example, I use both BlueNomad's Wordsmith and Dataviz' Documents to Go on my TX; the former for editing Word docs, and the latter primarily for viewing Office 2003/2007 documents. Neither requires online access, and both are fairly sophisticated, well beyond what can be accomplished in HTML or Javascript. Similarly, as someone who needs access to Hebrew texts on occasion, I use Penticon's Hebrew Lite to provide the language support, and Tealpoint's TealDoc to read the documents. On long airplane rides, I will read stored eBooks with Mobipocket Reader, watch movies using TCMCP, etc. All offline apps, all relatively sophisticated.

Given some of the follow-on discussions, it seems clear that while Palm is hyping the Web part of WebOS, the underlying Linux-based OS will certainly allow for real software running on it. Whether that takes the form of an emulator to run old favorites like Niggle (the pre-Handmark version of Scrabble), or an environment for updated versions of my current productivity apps, that is crucial for the Pre's real success as both a smartphone and TX/Treo successor. {ProfJonathan}

All that is fine and well ... but the handheld mark has changed into a completely different animal than the one you are describing ... over 90% of consumers no longer use any devices in the way you are describing ... the market has morphed these devices into email getting entertainment communication devices for the masses.

eBook content is all but gone and has been replaced by digital audiobooks ... unless you own a kindle most mainstream books aren't available any more for a digital reading experience.

TCMCP and players like that have been replaced by simple easy to use MP4 and WMV players that just work with a simple to use interface that anyone on the planet from 3 to 100 y/o people can use right away with no learning curve.

From what i've seen and heard anyone who can do C, XML, and Java will have little problems adapting to developing ... if i understand what i've read and seen this o/s is a localized web interface running on top of Linux o/s ...

As far as Documents ... DataViz is a pretty smart group of people ... before all is said and done you will probably see a modern WebOS version of DocsToGo ... or even from a different company.

Palm HAS to throw away the old Palm OS to survive in a modern world ... it's just that simple ... some people with old specialty apps will suffer like when Apple switched chipsets for the new OS a lot of legacy software stopped working.

Palm has to think forward not backwards to survive.

JavaJiveJump

01-11-2009, 06:37 PM

I hate to part with a lot of my old apps and lose their special functionality. Since many of these apps were created years ago, I doubt that all of the developers will come back and upgrade their individual apps.

Palm's advantage in the past was the tremendous amount of 3rd party apps available... and many for free!

I am going to keep an open mind though that the new OS and new apps to come will be able to still keep us happy. Maybe features that many people really miss will be re-developed.

LupeValenz

01-11-2009, 08:22 PM

First, can we find someone who can authoritatively say one way or the other?

Hiya Jhox, well I have to believe there is no SD slot on the device, Dieter Bohn was at the event and was able to handle one himself. He said in his Treocast Pre special edition that there is no expanded memory slot. I also didn't see it on the slide of features that Palm put up. If it had one, it should have gone up to take another jab at apple for having something they didn't. (Replaceable battery for one). I too wish it had one just for local backup purpose.

CICEROSC

01-11-2009, 09:23 PM

Very telling to me is that I see NO MENTION of Jeff Hawkins anywhere in these new announcements. (Please link if I'm wrong!)

The Palm concept I grew to be loyal to was apparently the Hawkins brainchild, and now it seems he and that concept are out the door. Iphone can have the glitz market -- I am getting a BAD feeling this new Palm is just chasing the me-too iphone crowd, and Apple will always control that market because that crowd is more glitz and marketing hype than substance. No Jeff Hawkins -- no more pdas -- this is all very bad. Maybe THAT's why the old-timers here at 1src are so quiet.

Time for the Hawkins / Palm loyalist refugees to regroup!

jwm

01-11-2009, 09:43 PM

Think I might just go for this baby - assuming it'll be in the UK soon. This'll be my first new "Palm" since my trusted TH55 which is still in daily use.

It's cool. Althought a little bit of lag switching between apps as can be seen in another demo video here (http://www.viddler.com/explore/treocentral/videos/1/) made after the main CES demo. Still not that bad overall and not enought to put me off. :D

jmg_NX21

01-12-2009, 03:00 AM

I believe you in the UK/Europe will see the GSM version before we USA residents do.

Hope Expansys carries it unlocked (assuming it'll have USA bands) so I can consider purchasing an unlocked version... lol

DennyL

01-12-2009, 04:37 AM

I dunno, it looks very cool, but will I be able to trust my data to it? Without a card slot and access to Palm apps it won't be the Palm that I love. I just replaced my TX with another (digitizer prob) and, thanks to Resco Backup and the card slot, the new Palm was up and running identical to its predecessor (minus digitizer prob) in 15 minutes, complete with 4 Gb of music. I wonder how the Pre would compare in such a scenario.

I've always needed to believe that, if my Palm were stolen or trashed, I could replace it all from what is on my desktop. I use Backupbuddy and that keeps a copy of the inserted memory card on the desktop, so if I lose my TX I can create a replacement memory card and restore that to a new TX. This has always worked better for me than restoring from Hotsync data, which ignores the card. Let's hope that with the Pre they haven't lost sight of the fundamentals in pursuing the iPhone crowd. Do we know how much memory it has?

kulf

01-12-2009, 11:45 AM

Pgr

01-12-2009, 12:04 PM

Note that is was formerly "No-Va"...

Now it has eggs. Nice.
I'm not sure everyone is grasping the full reach of this.

In Spanish, huevos means eggs, sure. But metaphorically it is commonly used to mean, well, the same thing that balls means in English.

So "how do you like my new Palm Balls?", "you can't synch Google calendars like me because you don't have Balls", etc...

:D

jmg_NX21

01-12-2009, 06:28 PM

NOW, I shall never forget... the Palm Pre runs the HUEVOS operating system...

o_O

cms

01-12-2009, 06:40 PM

O_O}}}} *craCkkk*

Crack an egg on your head?

by balls do you mean the McNuggets? O_O :D

LupeValenz

01-13-2009, 01:08 AM

I must admit I love the Pre...but I will miss some things from the 755P. I wish the Pre would have kept the D-pad. On the iPod touch when I'm going through the pages, I sometimes get tired of flicking my way through long post while on the 755P d-pad, I just hold down to keep on scrolling. One lil minor annoyance but I'll adjust, another thing I wish it had was the soft paint. That Pebble is just one fingerprint magnet. I'll get the Pre when it comes out but if sometime down the road Palm releases a newer edition of the pre with softpaint, I'll jump in that bandwagon again.

LupeValenz

01-13-2009, 01:09 AM

NOW, I shall never forget... the Palm Pre runs the HUEVOS operating system...

o_O

I guess saying that is still better than My Palm runs on this POS. :eek: oh how many times people had fun with that.

LupeValenz

01-13-2009, 01:30 AM

I was so high on Pre love that I completely forgot this was a phone. PIC brought up a good though, when your multi-tasking, how will you hang up when your not in the phone app? I think they need to add 2 new buttons to the Pre. I think that the best way though will probably just add a phone icon in the notification bar that will bring up the end button to disconnect the call.

jmg_NX21

01-13-2009, 02:22 AM

I guess saying that is still better than My Palm runs on this POS. :eek: oh how many times people had fun with that.

TO this day I always do a double-take on THAT also... that's why I type out PalmOS instead of POS... lol

militumxpisti

01-13-2009, 08:25 AM

JavaJiveJump

01-13-2009, 09:39 AM

Also backwards compatibility is a must, PERIOD.
The apps are what made these devices so great (especially the ones from just regular Joe's.).

I don't even want a phone and am miffed there are no options (yet) just to have the PDA with other means of connectivity (wifi, bluetooth, maybe WWAN).

militumxpisti

01-13-2009, 11:30 AM

I want a UX50 phone. No need to adjust much. Just add a bluetooth headset.

tonyreynolds

01-13-2009, 02:01 PM

This phone will just be another drop in the bucket. Maybe a bigger one then the average phone but nothing overly spectacular none the less. Without support for the things that made palm's great, like apps and a memory slot, this phone will not save them. Unless your just a brand w**** and in that case you should just buy an iPhone.

I'm going to wait and see what the next one is going to look like in terms of specs before I say palm is a contender again. Also backwards compatibility is a must, PERIOD.

To jog everyone's memory, the FIRST Palm devices did NOT have memory slots. THAT came later. Neither the original Palm Pilot 1000, 5000, Palm Personal nor Palm Professional had memory slots. I had to load several chapters of a book at a time instead of entire libraries like I do now and it cost me $150 to upgrade my Palm Personal with 512K of memory to 2MB of memory by having a MB change done. This feature only came after the Palm Vx. (Palm M125)

http://www.geocities.com/netbrakr/

I maintain that it's innovation and being in the right place at the right time that made Palm great, not necessarily memory slots or apps. Palms ease-of-use was far more beneficial to their success than the sheer number of apps that were available, many of which were crap. Many of the things we have taken for granted in later Palm devices did not become standard fare until AFTER palm's acquisition of Handspring. (Remember THEM?)

Y'all are welcome to disagree, but MOST users of PDA's historically (or smartphones for that matter) have tended NOT to be the power users that are represented by people on these boards. You people are all special, but you are NOT (and have never been) Palm's target market. Many of the features we power users want are either fluff or are wasted on the average user.

GuitarEC

01-13-2009, 03:29 PM

Well, I for one am hoping for a CD-ROM with my soon to be new Pre that will, at the VERY LEAST include an address book / .pdb to Google migration tool.

Looking forward to getting my grubby mits on one the DAY it comes out.

Should be interesting to compare and contrast between my Pre, and the guys at church (Bro-in-law with the G1, as well as the BB Storm, and iPhone represented in the group).

Eric "GuitarEC"

tonyreynolds

01-13-2009, 03:47 PM

I already use a tool like this, but it looks at Outlook Exchange on my desktop and copies my calendar to Google:

http://www.google.com/support/calendar/bin/answer.py?answer=98565

It works very well.

Off course, this assumes that the pre syncs wirelessly with your exchange server. I believe this also works with Yahoo or any other calendar...

Tony

GuitarEC

01-13-2009, 04:05 PM

It would be REALLY nice if it would import my .ics files I'm using in Thunderbird/Lightning. But, they still haven't hammered out webOS 1.0 yet, so I'll wait and see.

Conversion isn't impossible, it's just a pain. But I'll rank them up there as 'growing pains'.

<laughter school_girl="Giddy"> Tee hee hee!! </laughter>

Eric "GuitarEC"

JavaJiveJump

01-13-2009, 04:31 PM

I know this really sounds old school, but are they still supporting IR?

I didn't use it much, but it was pretty cool when you met someone with a Palm and you needed to quickly transfer a memo, contact or even a freeware app. I also used it with my IBM (Lenovo) Thinkpad T2x series.

The IR port has been unique to all Palm PDA devices. I hope it hasn't gone away with the smartphones.

(oh and who can forget IR-Pong!) :)

GuitarEC

01-13-2009, 04:33 PM

No IR port.

Sad...

Eric "GuitarEC"

JavaJiveJump

01-13-2009, 04:41 PM

so no IR-Port or SD-slot or stylus.
I'm all for the dawning of a new age, after all it does have a camera! (not sure if it only takes pics, but also video?)
Just didn't want the old *bling* to completely disappear too.

rusacarr

01-13-2009, 04:52 PM

My reaction:...
Agree with you totally, Dmitry. No C, no C++, no card slot, locked into a controled API, locked into only their desired languages, locked into only their application distribution system...

If that stuff holds true, as it appears it will for now, it's not a serious platform for developers. Shame really...

tonyreynolds

01-13-2009, 04:55 PM

If that stuff holds true, as it appears it will for now, it's not a serious platform for developers. Shame really...

They said the same thing about the iPhone and Touch. App development has exploded.

rusacarr

01-13-2009, 05:01 PM

They said the same thing about the iPhone and Touch. App development has exploded.
Oh yeah, like "I Am Rich"... :p

I'm joking, I'm joking...

Don't get me wrong. The iPhone and simular devices have their place, and work very well for some people. For my needs/desires/etc, they are not viable alternatives.

I guess what I'm trying to say is best summed up by what they are called. They are "smart phone", where I want a device closer to a "pocket pc" or a "palm-sized pc". Just wish I could get that in a device with modern hardware that does not require recurring montly charges to use...

(btw - my spelling is horrible, sorry)

militumxpisti

01-13-2009, 06:01 PM

Totally disagree with the idea that we are not the target market. Cant remember the last time I seen my aunt free up some time to go garage sale hunting on her Tungsten T|X.

The average person wants to be told what's good by people they know... like us.

jmg_NX21

01-13-2009, 06:18 PM

tonyreynolds

01-13-2009, 06:49 PM

I hope that this will garner a consumer frenzy so that by the end of the year there may be a prosumer model (microSd / 16Gb - at least)...

By then hopefully software developers will migrate / develop software for it.
(I will GREATLY miss PalmPDF... Dataviz has nothing on it...)

I agree. Something that's a little more towards the PDA side of things. That would make me VERY happy.

I do not yet have a smartphone and have been very reluctant to join the bandwagon simply because of the monthly charges for data.

thenrik

01-13-2009, 09:53 PM

Hi:

Without legacy support and no slot, I'll be waiting for DGOS. Actually even they had the above, I'd still be waiting for DGOS.

Tom

militumxpisti

01-13-2009, 10:19 PM

have been very reluctant to join the bandwagon simply because of the monthly charges for data.

Now that's something we can all agree on!

despinova

01-14-2009, 02:51 AM

I think Palm made a great leap with the Pre, but actually had to include an expansion slot for SD card, in addition to that, as has been written on the web specialist who will work to ensure that current applications (which not old) running on the new device but with WebOS!

ejtbatchelor

01-14-2009, 12:15 PM

I also agree that an SD slot is needed. This would be a great way for Palm to differentiate from the iphone.

JavaJiveJump

01-14-2009, 01:41 PM

I agree. Something that's a little more towards the PDA side of things. That would make me VERY happy.

I do not yet have a smartphone and have been very reluctant to join the bandwagon simply because of the monthly charges for data.
I agree too. I mean, I use my LifeDrive for free every month. haha! Obviously, most of the functions I use daily do not require a data plan of any type. I don't mind using my BT or WiFi to connect to WAPs and other devices for those instances when I do need internet.

drwho

01-14-2009, 02:48 PM

Anyone taking bets on which could come first?
This is my guess:
1. DGOS
2. A decent ALP machine
3. An emulator for the Pre

jomo

01-15-2009, 01:43 PM

All that is fine and well ... but the handheld mark has changed into a completely different animal than the one you are describing ... over 90% of consumers no longer use any devices in the way you are describing ... the market has morphed these devices into email getting entertainment communication devices for the masses.

Over 90% of consumers don't actually use any devices at all. Most people I know with a fancy cellphone may actually play with all the extraneous features for a DAY. Then they go back to just using the phone. This is, in no way, an argument for Palm's decisions.

eBook content is all but gone and has been replaced by digital audiobooks ... unless you own a kindle most mainstream books aren't available any more for a digital reading experience.

Digital audiobooks are often inconvenient for people (either drag out your headphones or annoy your neighbors on those long flights). Personally, I hate them. Kindle's success seems to suggest that eBook content is alive and well. Don't confuse your own preferences/experiences with everybody elses.

TCMCP and players like that have been replaced by simple easy to use MP4 and WMV players that just work with a simple to use interface that anyone on the planet from 3 to 100 y/o people can use right away with no learning curve.

I'm constrainted to point out that if what you are saying was true, Palm would have had no reason at all to provide any sort of interface to have add-on applications. If they've already provided all we need, then why do the web-apps at all?

From what i've seen and heard anyone who can do C, XML, and Java will have little problems adapting to developing ... if i understand what i've read and seen this o/s is a localized web interface running on top of Linux o/s ...

There's a vast difference between being able to program/develop on a given language and that language being able to accomodate something useful. All interested parties have indicated that XML/HTML/Java make poor use of on-device hardware resources and aren't really suited for anything other than the occasional web-browser widget. Ie don't even bother trying to do MS word attachments or anything else on a Pre until the real SDK arrives.

As far as Documents ... DataViz is a pretty smart group of people ... before all is said and done you will probably see a modern WebOS version of DocsToGo ... or even from a different company.

Yeah, but you won't be seeing it in XML/HTML. DataViz will have to get access down into the real guts of the OS to do DocsToGo for Pre.

Palm HAS to throw away the old Palm OS to survive in a modern world ... it's just that simple ... some people with old specialty apps will suffer like when Apple switched chipsets for the new OS a lot of legacy software stopped working.

Palm has to think forward not backwards to survive.

Baloney. This is a fallacious argument intended to excuse Palm for rushing Nova out the door. Did they HAVE to drop backwards compatibility? Nope. Did they CHOOSE to do it to get Nova out the door to have some counter-punch to iPhone? Yup. It would have been better if they'd just admitted it up front and said, "hey, we don't have it right now, but we're working on it." Even mighty Apple as much as admitted that sending iPhone and iPod Touch out the door without a real SDK was stupid. Palm basically ran out of time and focused on the core items that would at least provide a working OS. And you know what? That's ok. I do it all the time in my business. Get something that works and improve on it. Lying and saying that "we're going with a new business model" just ticks off your core business base and reduces potential sales. I MIGHT have considered a Pre, if I could have used a lot of the core apps that I use today. If I'm being asked to throw away all my old stuff, why should I even CONSIDER Palm? iPhone was there first with a frankly better interface. They already have their SDK out the door, and they already went down the "web-app" rabbit hole and came back. What does buying a Pre get me?

Greek

01-15-2009, 02:10 PM

I don't see Apple or MS very worried when they release a newer version of OS. If you want to upgrade, then you won't be using some apps until the developers update them.

What's the point of using Garnet apps on a Pre or an iPhone (once StyleTap finishes the emulator).?? Apps will look ugly, they may work slower. Tapping a tiny button with a finger is not as easy as with a stylus. They won't take advantage of the accelorometer, light and proximity sensors, or the GPS, etc.

Any counterpart app will take advantage of the new hard, will look nicer and will be easier to use.

Regards,

rusacarr

01-15-2009, 05:05 PM

...All interested parties have indicated that XML/HTML/Java make poor use of on-device hardware resources and aren't really suited for anything other than the occasional web-browser widget....

Can't stand seeing this anymore. Forgive me, but I must clarify this.

JAVASCRIPT IS NOT JAVA!!!

JavaScript is a scripting language developed initially by Netscape and mostly for use in a browser environment.

Java is a 4th generation object oriented language developed by Sun Microsystems that is designed to compile to an intermediate language that can then (in theory) run on any platform that has an engine that fully supports that intermediate language.

They are two totally different languages, created by two different companies, with two different goals. They just happen to have part of their name in common. There is even a dirty rumor that Netscape intentionally named their language that way so they could gain a boost from the buzz that the "brand-new" (at the time) Java language was creating. I doubt that myself, but I've seen it said before.

Palm states that development for WebOS will be in HTML, CSS, and JavaScript that accesses some of their own APIs. I have seen a few comments made by people to say that Java will be supported, but I don't believe I have seen any official statement from Palm on that. If I have missed the official statement about that, I am sorry. It's hard to keep up with everything on WebOS/Pre lately for some reason. :p

Even if Java is supported, the quoted statement is false. Java has the ability, through a runtime engine ported to a given platform, to do just about anything it wants. It is NOT as low-level as C or C++, but it was not really intended to be.

IBM's Java engine, which appears to be the only one in existence for Palm 5.x, is usable, but old, clunky and (in my experience) mostly junk. I don't know if it is really possible to get a fast, solid Java engine for Palm without a LOT of energy and money. Java is such a heavy/large/some-would-say-bloated language that it is far better suited to a server environment. A full Java engine might not be well suited to a mobile device, but it does quite well in a corporate/enterprise type of environment.

russell

ataualpa

01-17-2009, 06:42 AM

For me, as a TX user, the new Pre is missing the stylus.
I have also a palm treo with wm6 and I don't like entering text with the qwerty keyboard.
It seems to me that the Pre is following blackberry and iphone.
My hope: a new palm tx equipped with palm web os.
I need a PDA not a smartphone!

JavaJiveJump

01-21-2009, 04:25 PM

I need a PDA not a smartphone! -Amen!
I love my LD (thanks to Dmitry, Pruss, Pent and others).

Yet, I would like upgraded hardware and a faster processor and more fancy skinning stuff. I have a few apps that imitate some of iPhone stuff. I am glad that there is a physical button to flip the screen from landscape to portrait, but wouldn't it be cool if it was sensitive to the way it was being held?

I thought Java was coffee? ;)

oh and a place in Indonesia.

dmitrygr

01-21-2009, 05:09 PM

Well, if you want a tilt sensor, it can be added. I tried it and it works relatively well. In my test attempt, I added a full 3-axis accelerometer and made a driver for it.

rusacarr

01-22-2009, 02:47 PM

Well, if you want a tilt sensor, it can be added. I tried it and it works relatively well. In my test attempt, I added a full 3-axis accelerometer and made a driver for it.
Well, let's see... mic, vibration, multi-color led lights, custom ROM and memory management, now tilt sensor. What's next? web-cam in a TX? By the time you're done the PDA will be twice the size and weigh 10lbs. ;)

Seriously, all joking aside, yet again it's amazing what you come up with. I (and I'm sure several others here) would love to take a tour through your mad-scientist laboratory and see what's cooking. Any chance this driver and a how-to will ever see the light of day for the rest of us?

Honestly man, quit VMWare, finish DGOS and build a device with updated hardware along with some bells-n-whistles. I think it's safe to say that a lot of people would buy it and make the rest of your life very comfortable.

russell

JavaJiveJump

01-22-2009, 04:46 PM

Dmitry,

WOW! Is that going to be part of DGOS? Where can I get such a sensor? Where in the world do you fit it?

ProfJonathan

01-26-2009, 08:59 AM

A few thoughts on the above:

1) There are styli available for the iPhone that should work with the Pre, since they utilize the same type of resistive screens. They're not perfect, but they do exist.

2) Between the strong rumors of Java (not just Javascript) functionality, Palm's statement that a 3rd-party developer can create a PalmOS emulator (which implies access to more than a pretty Web interface), and the announcement of partners including DataViz, I'm confident that there will be a lower-level programming interface available for the Pre. Palm isn't promoting that, though, because it wants to look like everything is in the cloud. Sorry, Palm, but while my head may occasionally be in the clouds, my information is right here on my T|X, backed up nightly to its 16GB SDHC card (hi, Dmitry!).

3) If Palm wants to get power T|X users like me excited, it needs to announce Bluetooth keyboard compatibility and a next-up WebOS device with or at least WebOS software support for, to allow 3rd party hardware for the Pre) SDHC.

{ProfJonathan, whose replacement T|X is fairly new, so he's not too worried about it dying before the WebOS platform offers what he needs}

dmitrygr

01-26-2009, 12:54 PM

Looks like lower level SDK is not public, and will not be such. You know what, I'm tired of this <expletive deleted. member warned.> the only way you'll ever succeed is being nice to developers, ping me!

/pissed developer out

ejtbatchelor

01-26-2009, 03:24 PM

Well said Dmitry. It looks like Apple is going to sue palm over the the multi-touch technology. So should be interesting.

JavaJiveJump

01-26-2009, 03:46 PM

Well, since I have an old device (LifeDrive) the WebOS wouldn't work on it anyway. I'm holding out for the DGOS.

dmitrygr

01-26-2009, 03:54 PM

My apologies for language in my earlier post, but I still feel it had to be said. <hope I don't get banned for saying what everyone else was thinking>

JavaJiveJump

01-26-2009, 04:18 PM

I was surprised that those words could get through the filters! haha! I can imagine your frustration, but this doesn't affect DGOS, right?

Joel

01-26-2009, 04:44 PM

My apologies for language in my earlier post, but I still feel it had to be said. <hope I don't get banned for saying what everyone else was thinking>

You were close to being banned. Outbursts like that give a bad impression to you AND the site.

JavaJiveJump

01-26-2009, 04:53 PM

Again, this video (http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre/palm-pre-ces.html?sssdmh=dm13.190844) leaves your mouth watering regarding the release of the Pre with Palm WebOS.

It seems Palm really thought about getting back to basics and revamping a system that stands on it's own.

Of course, it is a smartphone (not just a PDA which I would rather in some instances), but it is beautiful and functional!

harpgliss

01-26-2009, 06:25 PM

Hi,

Issues I see are:

No syncing to desktop unless there comes a third party solution (may be coming).

No legacy app support unless there comes a third party solution (may be coming or not).

Alienating longtime users with the lack of the above two options missing from out of the box.

No card slot.

This is not a traditional pda, alienating certain longtime users.

No developer support at this time and a whole new operating system and having to program in a system some developers are unsure of.

New and unproven operating system that no one or very few people have had access to and used.

Palm does not have a good track record of launching a new operating system and new product line (Foleo).

Great demo presentations but how will this work in every day usage?

For anyone who says this is a step up is speculating with little or no information, just hope and a guess.

New hardware and no guarantee of how well this will integrate with the new operating system.

Label me a doom sayer or some pessimistic jerk but the above are facts when considering if palm will succeed with this new direction.

Me, I have moved on and this product does not fit my current needs but if it fits others needs, I hope it is a success.

These are my thoughts and not meant to get anyone upset.

David

dmitrygr

01-26-2009, 06:31 PM

agree d

ftwitty

01-26-2009, 06:38 PM

"PRE" is short for premature, which seems to say it all.

Joel

01-26-2009, 07:22 PM

I admit I haven't been following Palm news as often... but now did Palm announce an EOL for the TX and the other PDA's? If they didn't then that sounds improper ... leading me to assume that they might do that to the Pre lineup too.

Joel

01-26-2009, 07:23 PM

...

Me, I have moved and this product does not fit my current needs but if it fits others needs, I hope it is a success.

These are my thoughts and not meant to get anyone upset.

David

I second this.

JavaJiveJump

01-27-2009, 12:53 PM

not to mention...

http://mashable.com/2009/01/26/apple-multi-touch-patent/
:(
http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149061

ftwitty

01-27-2009, 04:31 PM

Oh my goodness, has Palm bet the farm on a dead cow?

ProfJonathan

01-27-2009, 05:24 PM

Dropping back into the discussion, I can easily see how WebOS may well meet my needs as they evolve past my T|X, even though I'm not sure the Pre in its announced form does. I'm not as concerned about legacy apps, as long as I have the equivalent functionality on a new device (I recall a number of apps I depended on when I had a PalmOS 3.x device that did not survive the upgrade to 5.x), but removable storage may well be a stopper, as would the lack (if true) of Bluetooth keyboard support.

C'mon, Palm, give me a device that does as much as my T|X *and more*. And announce it before my T|X dies again. {ProfJonathan}

Pgr

01-28-2009, 05:21 AM

Even though I'm all in favor of Palm opening up all sorts of low-level API's for serious developers, I can understand why they don't, especially at the beginning of the product's life cycle.

They mean this to be a kind of paradigm-shift in terms of usability and UI (how real this claim is, we'll have to wait and see). Having only higher-level API's will help them drive developers into their usability design, helping make the device usage more consistent across OS and apps.

For example, if a developer does not grasp the full reach of the cards-multitasking metaphor, or the direct-manipulation efforts put into the Pre? We could start seeing apps with "Save" buttons (very un-Palm-esque), or worse, "Close" buttons (totally Windows-Mobile-esque), or tap-able menus and options where gestures should be used.

So, I think they will try to "police" their UI ideas in the beginning, and gradually liberate them as they believe the main concepts are assimilated by everyone.

And let's face it, they said at the presentation how wonderful it was that the new Javascript/HTML/CSS programming would put them in immediate touch with hundreds of thousands of developers worldwide. They said they currently had tens of thousands of developers (the C people, the kind that dwell in 1src), and now they would have hundreds of thousands.

I say these will be, for the most part, different people, since hard-core C developers aren't typically in love with Javascript/HTML/CSS... so they're practically saying they quit their current developer community. This might make sense as a realistic market-driven future strategy, but it sure hurts when you're the ones left abandoned.

(Anyway, since when did Dmitry require an API to tweak a device? :D)

Greek

01-28-2009, 07:33 AM

Agreed. And as Roger McNamee said, it will be very, very easy to port many iPhone or Android apps to WebOS. As I said before, it's time to move. :)

Regards,

drwho

01-28-2009, 11:44 AM

Agreed. And as Roger McNamee said, it will be very, very easy to port many iPhone or Android apps to WebOS. As I said before, it's time to move. :)

Regards,
Wow! Have you seen the applications for iPhone or Android? Suddenly Windows Mobile is beginning to look attractive. :eek:

Greek

01-28-2009, 12:13 PM

Not Android, but yes the iPhone apps. They are strict to the point and easy to use. If I am walking down the street and need to check something quickly, that's the kind of apps I need. Not complicated stuff like winmo. I have a PC at home and at work. I can do the heavy stuff there. :)

Regards,

drwho

01-28-2009, 12:38 PM

I guess that's the difference between users like you and me. I do very little on my PC these days: mainly web browsing where a large screen is best. I do most things on my Treo. iPhone type applications do not cut it for me. I can see myself reluctanctly going to WinMob. It's a personal thing but for me the Pre is a terrible disappointment.

Church Punk

01-28-2009, 01:03 PM

hey guys, whats going on? Ive missed a lot :0

Happy new year btw :P

ftwitty

01-28-2009, 04:22 PM

hey guys, whats going on? Ive missed a lot :0

Happy new year btw :P
Palm laid a rotten egg.......... :rolleyes:

Church Punk

01-29-2009, 05:02 AM

:0 yeah :eek: i just saw the video... thats pretty much what i was expecting (in the sense of newness from palm as they said)...

Now i wonder when i can get one of this here in Germany, and for what price.

I cant wait lol

DennisOS2

02-06-2009, 11:32 PM

Hi,

Issues I see are:

No syncing to desktop unless there comes a third party solution (may be coming). YEP!

No legacy app support unless there comes a third party solution (may be coming or not). AMAZING HOW HIGH TECH GUYS WON'T MOVE FORWARD. THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT OVER PALM OS

Alienating longtime users with the lack of the above two options missing from out of the box. INCONSEQUENTIAL ....... THE PALM OS BASE IS SMALL NOW. THEY WILL MAKE UP FROM IPHONE AND MANY OTHER PLATFORM USERS

No card slot. FOR THE AVERAGE USER 8GIGS AND NO SLOT IS A BLESSING

This is not a traditional pda, alienating certain longtime users. THIS IS NOT AIMED AT THE PDA USER. HOWEVER, STAY TUNED. I'LL BET PALM WEBOS BASED PDAs ARE ON THE HORIZON

No developer support at this time and a whole new operating system and having to program in a system some developers are unsure of. WILL COME FAST. THIS IS AN EASY PLATFORM FOR DEVELOPMENT

New and unproven operating system that no one or very few people have had access to and used. YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT? HOW ARE WE TO ADVANCE WITHOUT SOME WHOLESALE CHANGES ........... CHANGES WITH SIGNIFICANT ADVANCES OVER CURRENT CHOICES.

Palm does not have a good track record of launching a new operating system and new product line (Foleo).

Great demo presentations but how will this work in every day usage?

For anyone who says this is a step up is speculating with little or no information, just hope and a guess. ENOUGH INFORMATION ABOUT FUNCTIONALITY HAS BEEN PROVIDED. IS IT TRUE? VERY DIFFICULT TO DEMO AND NOT DELIVER THESE DAYS.

New hardware and no guarantee of how well this will integrate with the new operating system. JEEEEEZ ........ I'VE NEVER GAMBLED ON NEW HW OR OSes.

Label me a doom sayer or some pessimistic jerk but the above are facts when considering if palm will succeed with this new direction. NO, NOT FACTS, BUT COMMENTS ON YOUR PART.

Me, I have moved on and this product does not fit my current needs but if it fits others needs, I hope it is a success. PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU'VE MOVED ON TO. ENLIGHTEN US AS TO THE PLACE WE SHOULD BE.

These are my thoughts and not meant to get anyone upset. NOT UPSET, JUST WONDERING WHAT YOU'RE USING THAT IS NIRVANA.

David

See comments in red

harpgliss

02-07-2009, 01:00 AM

Hi,

Interesting post there Dennis.

You disagree with my observations, fair enough, though they are shared by others here and elsewhere in other forums.

As for the last two comments in your post, to each their own.

What works for me may not be the same that works for you, I would never tell someone to switch what they use based on my needs.

The Pre does not meet my needs, if it fits your needs, enjoy.

David

Greek

02-07-2009, 08:54 AM

I agree with Dennis specially on the storage part. Average Joe has no clue on what card to buy, how to use it, how to copy/move/delete, not to mention format. Less clue on Slot 1, or 2, etc. PDAs/smartphones do not work the same as cameras do with cards. This is very important.

Palm does not have a good track record of launching a new operating system and new product line (Foleo). I think that EVERY manufacturer had problems with first launches: iPhone, RIM and the Storm, WM, Android, even Nokia!! Not to mention Win XP, Vista and all the SPs or allmighty Mac. :D

I can't really understand how tech savvy people are so attached to OLD (5 year in a app is prehistoric) applications and not willing to use faster, nicer and easier to use. I can bet that none of you are using the 5 year old apps on your PCs.

And again: the Pre (or any other smartphone from any other manufacturer) is not thought for people like us (in these boards). We are a minority. ;)

Regards,

harpgliss

02-07-2009, 10:23 AM

Hi,

My original post should have started off as: Issues I see expressed here and on other forums, instead of: Issues I see are.....

I really do not have a thought on the Pre outside of it is not a gadget I will be purchasing.

I, as mentioned in my posts here, am not a target customer here.

I have, for the last two months, been using an Ipod Touch and enjoy it very much.

It meets my current needs well but would not work well for others here.

As I say in my post above, the Pre works for you, get it, enjoy it.

I would never try and talk anyone out of buying the Pre.

It just will not be among my toy collection.

David

drwho

02-07-2009, 10:53 AM

I can't really understand how tech savvy people are so attached to OLD (5 year in a app is prehistoric) applications and not willing to use faster, nicer and easier to use. I can bet that none of you are using the 5 year old apps on your PCs.
For me it comes down to this. Over the years I have built up software which means my Treo does pretty well everything I want it to. The only thing I would really like is 3G speed and a better browser. The Pre may have faster nicer and easier to use applications but I doubt if I will be able to do what I do now on my Treo for some time. So it will initially be a big step backwards. Lack of legacy support means that there is no way to ease the transition other than carrying 2 devices round for a while.

I am actually using 5 year old+ applications on my PC. Again I spent tiome and money getting it to do what I want and am happy with it. I honestly can't remember the last time I bought a new application

DennisOS2

02-07-2009, 11:04 AM

Both the iPhone and Touch are great devices. Great for games, music and cloud jumping. But as Greek has said ......... not without their troubles as well. Currently the big players in smartphones/PDAs are WinMobile vs. Apple. And WinMobile is looking older and older as the days go by. Abominable OS for a smartphone. But till the Pre there hasn't been a modern OS except for Apple's. Again, fantastic platform, but many business users need much more. The Pre may offer the solution.

I do so much traveling/commuting that I work off my Pro all the time. Cuting and pasting reports into emails, creating spreadsheets, editing documents. I'm receiving all correspondence via email, so oftentimes its just easier to work off the phone. Problem ............ damn small screen.

Enter the Pre with larger screen, keyboard, and the promise of all the iPhone does with the addition of biz apps. If they can get their Palm developers dialed into this new platform. The Pre will be a smashing success. Then you'll see a resurgence of the Palm PDA with WiFi and BT. Real competition for the Touch.

DennisOS2

02-07-2009, 01:30 PM

For me it comes down to this. Over the years I have built up software which means my Treo does pretty well everything I want it to. The only thing I would really like is 3G speed and a better browser. The Pre may have faster nicer and easier to use applications but I doubt if I will be able to do what I do now on my Treo for some time. So it will initially be a big step backwards. Lack of legacy support means that there is no way to ease the transition other than carrying 2 devices round for a while.

I am actually using 5 year old+ applications on my PC. Again I spent tiome and money getting it to do what I want and am happy with it. I honestly can't remember the last time I bought a new application
The themes of your post seems to be:
1. 'My current PalmOS-based smartphone does all I need it to do.'
2. 'I have all the apps I need'

On both counts I'd say you're going to save a lot of money not worrying about the purchase of any new device.

Clie Patra

04-14-2009, 01:25 AM

The Pre is not for me. Here 's why:

- Cloud computing, so while in an airplane or low coverage area you have NOHING
- No SD card: this is a real dealkiller for many potential users
- No real backward compatibility

JavaJiveJump

04-14-2009, 01:41 PM

your last item is being addressed...

http://www.precentral.net/webos-support-palm-os-emulation

See particularly the link to motionapps on that page. (Nice Video presentation as well)

DennisOS2

04-14-2009, 01:58 PM

My reaction:
I'm with you ............ back in 1979 I said: 'These little single user computers called PCs will never last. They're a fad that will be gone before you know it. Everyone will be back to my mainframes.' ;)

DennisOS2

04-18-2009, 03:33 PM

harpgliss

04-18-2009, 06:44 PM

Hi,

your last item is being addressed...

http://www.precentral.net/webos-support-palm-os-emulation

See particularly the link to motionapps on that page. (Nice Video presentation as well)

Not free.

Will not work for all apps.

this is something Palm had said would be part of the new OS before they announced WebOS.

David

harpgliss

04-18-2009, 06:53 PM

Hi,

Good bye !

Most people have left.

This is why the Pre is so important for Palm to get right.

Of course Palm has said much the same thing when they decided the features most current customers wanted did not matter.

People have woken up and seen there are other devices and operating systems that will cater to their needs that Palm has not and apparently will not.

David

DennisOS2

04-18-2009, 07:28 PM

Hi,

Most people have left.

This is why the Pre is so important for Palm to get right.

Of course Palm has said much the same thing when they decided the features most current customers wanted did not matter.

People have woken up and seen there are other devices and operating systems that will cater to their needs that Palm has not and apparently will not.

David
I wasn't saying good bye to the forum ........... but to the individual who couldn't find anything to keep him coming back.

I had stopped coming to this forum when I was forced by my employer to move from a Palm Treo to a WinMobile Treo. Not a good move. Well, now they see others support Exchange and my next phone will be a Pre ........ so, I'm back to 1SRC hoping Alan and company will dive head first into this platform. If there are no wrinkles the Pre already is well beyond the iPhone. Lets just hope they don't screw up the marketing.

harpgliss

04-18-2009, 07:38 PM

Hi,

DennisOS2, you misunderstood.

I was saying there are a lot of Palm users who have left and moved on to other devices that are not Palm.

As for this: If there are no wrinkles the Pre already is well beyond the iPhone.

Do you have first hand knowledge of this, such as personal time with the Pre? or just another opinion that may or may not be accurate based on your needs and wants?

That may sound harsh but for users who have no hands on experience with a device saying it is better than another one is naive and ill informed.

Oh wait! that was harsh too, sorry.

David

DennisOS2

04-19-2009, 12:01 PM

Hi,

DennisOS2, you misunderstood.

I was saying there are a lot of Palm users who have left and moved on to other devices that are not Palm.

As for this:

Do you have first hand knowledge of this, such as personal time with the Pre? or just another opinion that may or may not be accurate based on your needs and wants?

That may sound harsh but for users who have no hands on experience with a device saying it is better than another one is naive and ill informed.

Oh wait! that was harsh too, sorry.

David

Didn't consider it harsh at all.

My son has his own consulting company doing all types of computer work from networking to software solutions, EHR, imaging, WebPortals. This company has been approved for some time to develop for the iPhone and BB. They've just applied .... not heard yet about the Pre. He, too, has been a long time Palm user (you know......like father like son ;-) having the 755p currently.

His programmers already have ~10 iphone apps developed with about half already in the store. From actually using the iPhone from its inception, developing for it and just watching all the Pre demo's out there he's convinced the Pre is the clear winner. I specifically mentioned the PIM functions. He commented that the iPhone isn't close to the Pre in calendaring, searching, contacts. He's most impressed the way Palm has deeply integrated the GPS functions. He likes the 'slickness' of the iPhone. And what it does it does well. The iPhone just isn't very business centric. Out of the box the Pre will be business and cloud centric with the capability of being media centric as well. What's left to offer much more than the iPhone.

I was (still am just a bit) hesitant. Like the old adage 'Don't buy version 1 of any application'. But I've been sold by quite a few non-Apple techies that bought the iPhone because it was an advance over the existing smartphones (especially the WinMobile kludges) now saying their iPhone feels dated after seeing the Pre demos.

harpgliss

04-19-2009, 02:19 PM

Hi,

DennisOS2, the Iphone OS is being upgraded, probably in June to address some of its shortcomings and probably new models as well.

The Pre demos do look impressive but this is also a blank phone with only the builtin apps and, I assume, very little else on the phone to slow or muddle its functionality.

My thinking is if you take the Pre, as stock from Palm with no added data and compare it to an older phone that has been loaded with apps and date from the user, the comparison is not fair.

I am not defending Apple or anything but I do have an Ipod Touch and it gives me the same thrill I had when I got my first pda, which was a Sony PEG-T415.

The Pre has been pushed for its handling of PIM functions, great but it needs to do more for it to be successful.

Me, I need it to be my gaming device, my multimedia player, besides the normal ways I use my pda and these functions have not been addressed very much.

I just have that nagging feeling that people who have complained about the Iphone/touch being half baked will be saying the same things about the Pre.

There has always been the tendency for users to always want morefrom a company, even if the device is already pretty good out of the box.

Users always say the company, no matter who it is, should have added more and it will be the same with the Pre.

I bear no ill will towards Palm but they have put themselves in the position where the Pre needs to be huge and that means it needs to beat Apple at their strengths, and they have never addressed them.

David

dmitrygr

04-19-2009, 03:00 PM

I'm with harpgliss here. After pissing off all their developers I am not sure how palm expects to be saved by them...

espc31

04-19-2009, 07:54 PM

DennisOS2

04-19-2009, 09:32 PM

See comments in red

Hi,

DennisOS2, the Iphone OS is being upgraded, probably in June to address some of its shortcomings and probably new models as well. YES, my son has the v3 emulator ........ no change to the basic platform. Still no multitasking ...... unless you 'jailbreak' it which renders it unstable. Just what you were concerned with.

The Pre demos do look impressive but this is also a blank phone with only the builtin apps and, I assume, very little else on the phone to slow or muddle its functionality. You've seen a beta. Again, as a beta it does more than the iPhone. What apps does a iPhone ship with?

My thinking is if you take the Pre, as stock from Palm with no added data and compare it to an older phone that has been loaded with apps and date from the user, the comparison is not fair. I agree. The linux base with WebOS shell ........... the inherent coding requirements will produce more stable and complex apps.

I am not defending Apple or anything but I do have an Ipod Touch and it gives me the same thrill I had when I got my first pda, which was a Sony PEG-T415. If the iPod Touch serves you well, you may not need the increased capabilities of the Pre. Hey ...... save the money ;-)

The Pre has been pushed for its handling of PIM functions, great but it needs to do more for it to be successful. The iPhone and iPod Touch need to do more than play music and games to be successful. They need to be able to manipulate business data. They are in the hands of private users, not corporations that need solid business functions. BTW .......I've played music and movies on my Palms from the Clie 60 to present.

Me, I need it to be my gaming device, my multimedia player, besides the normal ways I use my pda and these functions have not been addressed very much. Yup, the Pre is not going to be much of a gaming platform till Palm opens that up in the SDK. Not a problem for me ........ very few 3D chess apps I use ;-)

I just have that nagging feeling that people who have complained about the Iphone/touch being half baked will be saying the same things about the Pre. Maybe, but by a different type of person.

There has always been the tendency for users to always want morefrom a company, even if the device is already pretty good out of the box. Most certainly!

Users always say the company, no matter who it is, should have added more and it will be the same with the Pre. Apple addressed this with their store. Palm is doing the same. Hopefully, individual, innovative developers will fill the void.

I bear no ill will towards Palm but they have put themselves in the position where the Pre needs to be huge and that means it needs to beat Apple at their strengths, and they have never addressed them. It seems the Pre compared to the Apple offerings already is huge. Palm needs to succeed in the marketing, hype, creative press. This is my fear. Microsoft beat IBM in the OS wars (Windows vs. OS2) with a vastly inferior product. Better marketing/business model. I'm not so sure Palm has the ability to maximize the impact of the Pre platform.

David
:)

DennisOS2

04-19-2009, 09:36 PM

I'm with harpgliss here. After pissing off all their developers I am not sure how palm expects to be saved by them...
If need be, by a new cadre of developers. You've stated in numerous places on 1src how Palm has turned their back on developers. Can you tell us non-developers how?

DennisOS2

04-19-2009, 09:51 PM

I think Palm is making a big miss step in the promotion of the Pre... Most Palm users are looking for an update to the aging Palm os but it seems that the Pre is just a new smartphone and there are new smart phones hitting the market all the time. WebOS could have been pushed to standalone PDA and smartphone.
I believe you are mis-speaking for most Palm users. I've been loyal since the vX days. I have a lot invested in apps. Yes, I want an update to the PalmOS. But I also want a significant update to what the PalmOS is. I haven't heard anyone say the PalmOS can be updated to the level of functionality of the Pre. The capabilities of the Pre (if real .... and I believe they are) are far beyond what can be accomplished with a PalmOS update.

I was a pretty significant business power user of my Clie 80. On the fly spreadsheets, powerpoint, and all PIM functions. Daily and constantly. I have no qualms moving to something that will make me even more productive.

I've never heard anyone say '.......... all they need to do is update DOS or Windows 95 :)

harpgliss

04-19-2009, 10:55 PM

Hi,

DennisOS2, at this point, I think I am going to bow out of this discussion as my thoughts have been pretty clearly posted and not likely to change.

You and I see this almost in polar opposites and I am not really wanting to go any further when I have nothing more to add.

The Pre is clearly not an option for me and it clearly is an option for you, great, I hope you enjoy it and it is what you want and need.

For me, the Pre is so not the option for me, it has been difficult to tame my posts so I do not trash a product that has not even been out in the wild.

I do think you took my last post and used it to make your points and some of them really were not directly in counterpoint to my points.

You clearly do not like the Iphone/ Ipod touch platform and I clearly do not see the Pre as meeting my needs.

We are not alone in our views and going around more in response to each other is really not very enjoyable for me.

Suffice to say, I am happy with my choice of device and I sincerely hope you enjoy the Pre as much as I do the Ipod Touch.

David

DennisOS2

04-20-2009, 09:17 AM