IDEA: app to duplicate apps

[Pgr]

Hi everyone,

I had an idea for an utility that I hope might motivate one of the many brilliant developers out there...

I would like to be able to duplicate apps. Instead of having just one Handyshopper, for example, I would like two. Why? Because I use two lists very often on that program, and I have to toggle between them all the time.

The space that double-apps would occupy on my Palm T|X would be quite irrelevant in light of the practical advantages: getting everything directly from my launcher, and using the 500 ways of launching stuff available for Palm OS to go directly into the pdb I want to edit.

Two Calendars, two Checklists, two ShadowPlans, ... sometimes it's more practical than just having two categories within the app.

This could be done in a few ways:

1- generating shortcuts that would produce "launch app X with file Z"; but i guess this is only possible in apps that support it;

2- generating a second prc for app X, changing the necessary names/creatorID to make it work. More importantly, making it use a separate DB. This is a hacker-style operation, but very useful if possible...

3- any ideas? :rolleyes:

[pruss]

Actually, one wouldn't need a duplicate (which might involve copyright problems), just a small stub that saves the relevant changeable databases in an archive, deletes them, runs the app, saves the resulting databases in a new archive, restores the old ones from the archive. This would be somewhat slow, though, if there is a lot of data.

[Pgr]

Actually, one wouldn't need a duplicate (which might involve copyright problems)
I had thought about this but I couldn't come up with a situation that could be problematic... after all, this is all on ONE device, it's not meant to go around any protection, it's just a workaround, an alternative method of opening DB with that app.

At least for freeware it wouldn't have problems for sure.

a small stub that saves the relevant changeable databases in an archive, deletes them, runs the app, saves the resulting databases in a new archive, restores the old ones from the archive. This would be somewhat slow, though, if there is a lot of data.
That's a nice way to do it; at least for me, I wouldn't be using very large files so it could prove efficient... this looks a bit like your Profile Saver app, right? Only it involves pdb files instead of just standard-preferences.

[alt236]

A similar commercial application already exists (Northglide cloner):
http://www.clickapps.com/moreinfo.htm?pid=14095&section=PALM
I've never used it though.

Something like that could wreak havok while hotsyncing though...

[Pgr]

A similar commercial application already exists (Northglide cloner):
http://www.clickapps.com/moreinfo.htm?pid=14095&section=PALM
I've never used it though.

Something like that could wreak havok while hotsyncing though...
Hhmm that app seems perfect except for the fact that is not freeware. :)

Hotsyncing is something I stopped worrying about since I got NvBackup!... (there's a perfect app for you :D)

...

I was wondering if, for the simplest cases, I could do this duplication by hand: for apps that use several files for their data (like handyshopper, keeps a separate pdb for each list), maybe all I would have to do is hammer in a new name over the prc binary, and I would have a double app with only one set of data (but I would open each on a different database).

Anyone know if there is documentation on the prc format? Does it have checksums or anything that would make this more difficult?

[ReadOnly]

Hotsyncing is something I stopped worrying about since I got NvBackup!... (there's a perfect app for you :D)


... a bit on a tangent, but it is Your tangent ...

Couple of cautionary notes for those relying solely on flash card backups, based on my own sometimes painful experiences:

1) be sure to Back THEM up (like to a recordable DVD or at least to a 2nd card), as flash cards can and will go belly up --- often, IME, when you need them most.

2) cross-grading (moving between different models) after your old handheld dies can be a major pain if ALL of your backups are via flash. BTDT - recently!

[Pgr]

... a bit on a tangent, but it is Your tangent ...

Couple of cautionary notes for those relying solely on flash card backups, based on my own sometimes painful experiences:

1) be sure to Back THEM up (like to a recordable DVD or at least to a 2nd card), as flash cards can and will go belly up --- often, IME, when you need them most.

2) cross-grading (moving between different models) after your old handheld dies can be a major pain if ALL of your backups are via flash. BTDT - recently!
Thanks, that is good advice. My PC has a nice handy SD slot, so I make an occasional PC backup of my NvBackups.

Also, I do a Hotsync about once a month. I thought I was doing it out of superstition, now I know it was to cover for that cross-grading liability! :)

[_Em]

You can also use Resco Explorer or UniCMD to make backups every once in a while that are cross-gradable. You still need to back up to another medium from time to time however (which is why most of the current backup apps support scheduled FTP archiving now, thanks to Alex's PD FTP code).

[JavaJiveJump]

What makes a backup "cross-gradable" or not?

I have UniCMD from 2005 (version 1.813). Is there anything newer?

I love NVBackup the most, but UniCMD saved my posterior once or twice before that too!

[_Em]

NVBackup backs up the memory of your device at a lower level -- the data backed up has to be restored to a device with the same logical layout of data structures. If you restore it to a T|X with a different firmware revision, it is possible it won't work. If you try restoring the data to some other NVFS device, it won't work.

Note: this isn't 100% accurate; SOME files will restore just fine; you can't be guaranteed that ALL filies will restore properly, however.

[pruss]

I avoid hotsync when I can.

NVBackup saves my backups on my home server via ftp, so I have daily backups going back quite a while.

[Pgr]

Well, back on topic, there are open questions on posts #3 and #5 in case anyone wants to take them... :)

[potter]

I would like to be able to duplicate apps. Instead of having just one Handyshopper, for example, I would like two. Why? Because I use two lists very often on that program, and I have to toggle between them all the time.
Cannot help you on the general challenge, but I can on just this specific one. A little know feature of HandyShopper:
Use FileZ or similar application.
Find the HandyShopper list databases. These will have the name as given in HandyShopper, a Creator ID of '2Shp' and Type ID of 'List'.
For each HandyShopper database desired:
Select it.
Press the <Details> button.
Select the 'Attrs' tab.
Set the Launchable bit.
Press the <Save> button.
When you go back to the launcher you will find that each of these so change HandyShopper databases appear in the launcher as if they were an application. Launching them will start HandyShopper with that specific database.

[Pgr]

Wow!! :eek: that is a GREAT tip, potter, thanks!

It's not a Handyshopper feature - it's a Palm OS feature. I tried it with other programs and IT WORKS!

Basically, it seems that whenever there are programs that use individual pdb files for each of their databases, they tend to use the same Creator ID for the PDB's that is also used for the executable PRC. UniCMD is a great file utility to see this because it groups files by Creator ID very easily and intuitively (expand/collapse groups of files with identical Creator ID's).

So, if the "Launchable" attribute is set, Palm's application launcher will show an icon for the data file; and my guess is that it will launch the PRC that has the same Creator ID and pass it that data file as a startup parameter.

Works with Handyshopper, eReader, ShadowPlan, and probably many others! Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to work with DocsToGo...

I also found out that my launcher, ScreenButton, already let's you configure buttons to "Load launchable DB" so I can launch individual files from the launcher which is just what I wanted. :)

Impressive solution, such a simple thing for such great usefulness... thanks!