LD has TWO processors!

[dmitrygr]

Yep it's true.
The wireless chipset contains among other things a full ARM core :-)
I kid you not :-)

amonng possibilities this means - cool wireless hacks and maybe even using it for computation when not using it for wireless

[Rusher]

dmitrygr, hm... Sounds cool :) Maybe it would usefull as a graphics chip?

P.S. Sorry for my ugly english :P

[joepagIII]

well that could have interesting possibilities for some clever devoloper

[JavaJiveJump]

Will the wonders ever cease?

That's great! How did you stumble on that juicy piece of info?

[dmitrygr]

same way i stumble on other pieces of juicy info - research :)

[JavaJiveJump]

:-) Where do you research this stuff? It's hard to believe Palm documents this for the public?

You have access to some whitepapers?

This is sweet information!

How will you take advantage of it?

[Icecruncher]

A dual core Lifedrive. That would be cool.

But I bet using the second would eat batteries like candy!

[dmitrygr]

not really. it is used each time you are on wifi

[JavaJiveJump]

I am SO glad I held out to get an LD! :)

[_Em]

The way you research this stuff is to open up a device, look at the chip part number, then look it up at the chip supply sites to get the data sheet. Those data sheets outline all the capabilities of the chips, not just the ones being used by the product you currently have.

[joepagIII]

so now what ...is there a way to make it work for programs or what...maybe customize the rom to use the wifi processor for some other tasks i like running wifi and wifi where...could a modded bit of software be written to make the chip do someth9ing like be a wireless nas for those people who are getting 32 and 64 gig cf cards

[_Em]

What part number does that chip have, Dmitry? I'm interested in seeing cache numbers, max speed, etc. so we can tell how much on-board codespace is available. This could be useful for writing a "soft" graphics coprocessor that can mimic the Zodiac's to some degree :)

[dmitrygr]

The way you research this stuff is to open up a device, look at the chip part number, then look it up at the chip supply sites to get the data sheet. Those data sheets outline all the capabilities of the chips, not just the ones being used by the product you currently have.


good luck
the specs for it only say wofo chip
u cannot access the ARM part of it except with custom firmware, which i managed to upload to it

[palmmann]

it's there, but is it useful? could it be used to, say, conserve battery using it instead of main proc for things like calc, notepad, etc? i wouldn't think it would be that powerful, and could using it interfere with normal wifi use? would writing the drivers be worth the effort?

sorry but things like this fill me with questions. any way this is a pretty cool find :)

[dmitrygr]

using it instead of main processor is impossible. it is not interfaced to the lcd, etc
using it is hard as is since i have no idea what its internal registers are and what they mean. its a custom ARM core with no docs to it. not easy to reverse engineer that

[joepagIII]

but there might be some interesting wifi apps to write.... or a way to boost it...

[palmmann]

wpa2?

(pipe dream, i know...)

[dmitrygr]

well, only in software. the hardware supports WPA-PSK and WEP only
but in software you can do this is mostly a softradio (hardware acceleration is there, but you can pretty much control what bits are sent)

[jjesusfreak01]

I love the, "well, it would be really hard to reverse engineer" bit...

What you really mean is, it would be really hard for anyone else to reverse engineer, and moderately difficult for me...

[dmitrygr]

moderately easy for you? sweet. do it! :D

[abhishekaiyar]

dmitry why don't you create an app that will be able to hack into the other processor and make apps run faster (somewhat like overclocking but here you'd be running two processors at their RAW speed to get things done faster)


this app could be a major success

exactly how powerful is the other processor?

can you RUN both palm and linux at the same time like VMware fusion does?


if you can actually do that then you could create an app for that too



so is that possible?

[abhishekaiyar]

someone asked me what i am doing with my 5 dead lifedrives

well within warranty when my lifedrive died, i just gave it to palm and they gave me a sparkling new one

so that's where my dead Ld(s) are

:):)

[phreakonaleash]

dmitry why don't you create an app that will be able to hack into the other processor and make apps run faster (somewhat like overclocking but here you'd be running two processors at their RAW speed to get things done faster)


this app could be a major success

exactly how powerful is the other processor?

can you RUN both palm and linux at the same time like VMware fusion does?

As Dmitry said, this isn't a standalone processor and it will take a lot of hacking to get it to run, say, two different OSs simulataniously, or even for that matter, to overclock the device.

[Church Punk]

yeh, but still, a really good area to explore... no one knows what advantages can you get from this :D

[_Em]

First thing first, we need to find out more about what's actually there... my guess is that it'll be useful more in the line of an embedded device than as a general purpose CPU. Making it a "second" core for the OS would involve a LOT of work -- of course, since Dmitry's planning to write his own OS, he could include some LD hacks for the processor ;)

[dmitrygr]

its a full ARM core.
no MMU, but it does have caches, buffers, a CF, spi, and sdio interface

[phreakonaleash]

:wq
make
make install

Have fun hacking D :)

[JavaJiveJump]

The way you research this stuff is to open up a device, look at the chip part number, then look it up at the chip supply sites to get the data sheet. Those data sheets outline all the capabilities of the chips, not just the ones being used by the product you currently have.
Thanks!! A good bit of insight, that.

[JavaJiveJump]

Dmitry is speaking geek again. :) B-B Attempts to define:

MMU - Memory Management Unit (MMU) is the part of the processor that is responsible for protecting system resources from unwanted access and also adding the capability for handling virtual memory. In ARM cores, MMU is basically MPU plus added support for virtual memory.

MPU - Memory Protection Unit (MPU) is the management unit in the processor that is responsible for shielding of system resources and tasks from unwanted access.

RISC - Reduced Instruction Set Computer

SPI - a 3-wire bus used by cheap mmc controllers

SDIO - Secure Digital Input/Output (able to access Secure Digital cards)

Source: ARM Glossary (http://www2.okisemi.com/site/productscatalog/armsolutions/ARMGlossary.html)

[dmitrygr]

Dmitry is speaking geek again. :) B-B Attempts to define:

MMU - Memory Management Unit (MMU) is the part of the processor that is responsible for protecting system resources from unwanted access and also adding the capability for handling virtual memory. In ARM cores, MMU is basically MPU plus added support for virtual memory.

MPU - Memory Protection Unit (MPU) is the management unit in the processor that is responsible for shielding of system resources and tasks from unwanted access.

RISC - Reduced Instruction Set Computer

SPI - Sequencer Processor Interface inside a (RISC) processor

SDIO - Secure Digital Input/Output (able to access Secure Digital cards)

Source: ARM Glossary (http://www2.okisemi.com/site/productscatalog/armsolutions/ARMGlossary.html)


spi is not what you defined - it is a 3-wire bus used by cheap mmc controllers

[_Em]

Think of it as an alternative serial communications method to RS232/USB/etc. usually used between components of embedded/semi-embedded systems. It stands for Serial Peripheral Interface (bus) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Peripheral_Interface_Bus)

[palmmann]

sdio you say? second sd slot perhaps(if the sdio isn't being used for the wifi)?

[JavaJiveJump]

spi is not what you defined - it is a 3-wire bus used by cheap mmc controllersChanges made. Thanks. :cool:

Think of it as an alternative serial communications method to RS232/USB/etc. usually used between components of embedded/semi-embedded systems. It stands for Serial Peripheral Interface (bus) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Peripheral_Interface_Bus)Always learning something on these forums. ;) Thnx!

[JavaJiveJump]

So nothing became of this 3 years later... eh?

[xandros9]

I guess.

(I broke my LD :( )