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View Full Version : Java Micro environment + Opera: Worth it?

davidconrad10
03-27-2008, 10:36 AM
I was interested in trying Opera Mini on my TX, but discovered that it requires the IBM Websphere-micro-etc.-Java-environment. I also discovered that Palm no longer provides a free download for that Java environment. But then I discovered that PocketGear sells it for $6.

Here's the question: does anyone have enough experience to say whether Opera on a TX is enough better than Blazer to justify both $6 (a nominal sum) AND the additional time and software clutter that installing both the Java environment and Opera would require?
joemun
03-27-2008, 01:36 PM
Try netfront 3.1...Opera mini sucks! at least for me...
phreakonaleash
03-27-2008, 04:00 PM
Hi,

Imo, while it does a pretty good job, Opera is flawed in many ways.

1) It's not a native browser so can't take advantage of system features such as registering for link types, notificitations, etc
2) it runs in the, imo, extremely flawed IBM vm
3) It consistantly hangs on my T|X, even with UDMH, warpseed, etc

So, stick with blazer or netfront, in my opinion. It does its job as a mobile browser.
kari
03-27-2008, 05:27 PM
1) Memory parameters for Opera must be defined using "J9 launcher" preferences app, then it's possible to set following parameters: "-Xms1600k -Xmx1600k -Xss32k -Xiss32k -noverify", which makes browser more robust (i.e. helps with OOME which resets TX). You may try to combine this with UDMH and try higher amount of memory. However, with my experience heap must be over 1MB but below 2MB, otherwise it becomes unstable.

2) Opera mini is able to render very big pages, while Netfront runs very quickly into "page too large to display" -problem. Also Netfront has problems in rendering "äåö". etc. This had made Netfront rather unusable for me (so suckingness factor of various browsers varies). In overall OM renders pages more much more nicely.

3) When Fontsmoother or Fonts4os5 is used with some 8 point font for Opera mini, then rendering is very nice, otherwise it sucks due to too big font.

4) OM has good "back/forward" caching of already visited pages; i.e. "back/forward" is instant.

5) OM has big problem in native OS clipboard support. Copy/paste of text in input fields in opera is simply impossible. In my case, I found work around for this issue from the feature of MessagEase DIA what I'm using; it has "popup keyboard", from where copy/paste into input fields of OM work. Still, however, copying any text from the webpages itself is impossible, except by making screen capture.

6) Server side rendering of pages causes occasional lengthly delays before page becomes visible. This seems to vary from time to time, thus it is propably due to overloading of servers in Opera's server room.

7) Opera mini is not able to access few sites, which are restricted into "region" based into IP or such filtering, since Opera's servers reside in Norway, and thus regional pages may refuse to show up. Same thing is naturally with any private intranet or such pages.
davidconrad10
03-27-2008, 08:38 PM
The comments don't make installing it (OM) sound encouraging. One comment mentioned NetFront. I've certainly heard about Netfront, but didn't know it was available as a TX add-on. Is it? From where?
cms
03-27-2008, 09:06 PM
If im correct the netfront installer by dmitry is located at his website:
www.Palmpowerups.com
EBSkater
03-27-2008, 09:28 PM
If anyone wants the installer for the Opera browser and the Java files, just let me know. I was scowering the net a few months ago, and managed to locate both of them, so I can e-mail them if necessary.

Edit: Oh yeah, as long as I'm not using any bad hacks for my T|X (stuff that cause my Palm to hard reset itself anyways), it works just fine, and I enjoy that I can sync it along with my phone and my online bookmarks. I'm happy with it, and it runs well for me. Works with both WiFi and bluetooth connections.
joemun
03-27-2008, 10:04 PM
1) Memory parameters for Opera must be defined using "J9 launcher" preferences app, then it's possible to set following parameters: "-Xms1600k -Xmx1600k -Xss32k -Xiss32k -noverify", which makes browser more robust (i.e. helps with OOME which resets TX). You may try to combine this with UDMH and try higher amount of memory. However, with my experience heap must be over 1MB but below 2MB, otherwise it becomes unstable.

How do I do this...I am going to give it a chance again...maybe I am wrong...
phreakonaleash
03-27-2008, 11:06 PM
If anyone wants the installer for the Opera browser and the Java files, just let me know. I was scowering the net a few months ago, and managed to locate both of them, so I can e-mail them if necessary.

See my sig.
kari
03-28-2008, 12:26 PM
How do I do this...I am going to give it a chance again...maybe I am wrong...

Via Preferences. Normal "IBM Java VM" allows only coarse tuning of parameters, but "J9 Java Options" allows detailed adjusting of java startup parameters. I recall you need to install "j9pref.prc" (comes with IBM Java 5.7.2 package) into Palm to have this preferences option available.
EBSkater
03-28-2008, 07:07 PM
See my sig.

Why is that breaking the law? I know they don't support it anymore, but I thought this kinda' fell into the ROM video game laws where it's okay to download it since it's not supported anymore?
joemun
03-28-2008, 07:15 PM
Via Preferences. Normal "IBM Java VM" allows only coarse tuning of parameters, but "J9 Java Options" allows detailed adjusting of java startup parameters. I recall you need to install "j9pref.prc" (comes with IBM Java 5.7.2 package) into Palm to have this preferences option available.

ok! thanks I am going to give it a try... thanks for your reply
phreakonaleash
03-28-2008, 07:16 PM
well, well:

Strictly speaking, ROM files are only legal downloads if youown the original games. They are offered merely as backups (and that's the only reason those sites are still up).

Now if we want to go into IBM websphere, this is still being sold by IBM, it's just that palm doesn't have a license/isn't choosing to use their license to redistribute it. By downloading it without agreeing to the EULA that it's bound by your technically breaking copyright laws. This has been discussed in at least two threads now (hence I"ve added it to my sig) so just a bit of searching on it should pull up more precise info (i'm not too concious/sane at the moment to explain it again....)
phreakonaleash
03-28-2008, 07:19 PM
http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140982 <-- F.E.
EBSkater
03-28-2008, 07:19 PM
Ah, I didn't realize that IBM was still offering it for download. I had a really hard time finding it myself, so I didn't realize it was still online (well, besides really really looking for it).
joemun
03-29-2008, 02:10 PM
Too unstable!...didnīt like it...I am going to stay with Netfront...Thanks anyway
Another Michael
04-05-2008, 02:35 PM
Too unstable!...didnīt like it...I am going to stay with Netfront...Thanks anyway

I say: Yes, its worth it and its stable. (Opera mini Beta 4.1 on TX without UDMH only CleanStart to maximise the caches.)

But: You have to edit the preferences for the JVM otherwise it will not work as expected.
joemun
04-05-2008, 07:21 PM
Edit: I did try it and as you said is very stable...So far I like it...
kari
04-06-2008, 04:59 AM
Nice... Opera Mini 4.1 beta provides now support for jsr75. In other words, it supports downloading of files without using Blazer. And it seems to work as long as necessary jsr75 support files are installed on tx.
Another Michael
04-06-2008, 09:18 AM
Nice... Opera Mini 4.1 beta provides now support for jsr75. In other words, it supports downloading of files without using Blazer. And it seems to work as long as necessary jsr75 support files are installed on tx.

Does anybody knows about the files that can be found in the JSR72 folder, namely:

WS-Security.prc
WebServices.prc

Are they used / needed by Opera mini 4.1 beta ?

(I don't installed them and Opera works so far, but maybe there are some special functions that will need this files ?)
BrentDC
04-06-2008, 09:28 AM
Described in the Documentation: Install these files if you want your JVM to support JSR-172, which supports Web Services.

Real helpful, I know :rolleyes:
Another Michael
04-06-2008, 09:54 AM
Described in the Documentation: Install these files if you want your JVM to support JSR-172, which supports Web Services.

Real helpful, I know :rolleyes:

Wikipedia: Web-Services (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_service)

WS-Security

Defines how to use XML Encryption and XML Signature in SOAP to secure message exchanges, as an alternative or extension to using HTTPS to secure the channel.

So, is it needed/useful or not ?
kari
04-07-2008, 12:11 PM
I haven't had this JSR172 stuff installed, so propably Opera Mini isn't using it.
joemun
04-07-2008, 04:55 PM
Something interesting iīve found...if you clear in settings/help/transmited and received... you eliminate the out of memory issue, until its about 1 mb again when it recurs again...also you can clear the history...
kari
04-08-2008, 02:15 PM
Btw, somebody haven't otherwise noticed. "j9secpol.prc" hack allows avoiding those "user permission check" dialogs in Opera Mini.
Another Michael
04-08-2008, 08:12 PM
Btw, somebody haven't otherwise noticed. "j9secpol.prc" hack allows avoiding those "user permission check" dialogs in Opera Mini.

Thank you very much !

...

So i've done a nutshell installer for Java572 (only english language) that is useful for Opera mini 4.1

It installs following files:

J9JavaVMMidp20.prc
J9pref.prc
JavaVMCheck_enEN.prc

fileconnect.prc
pimop.prc
PIMPrefs.prc

j9secpol.prc

Downloadable <here> (http://www.wegzumselbst.de/dat/Java_572+hack_install.prc)

...

And some localizations:

<German> (http://www.wegzumselbst.de/dat/Java_5.7.2_Install_de.prc) <Spain> (http://www.wegzumselbst.de/dat/Java_5.7.2_Install_es.prc) <French> (http://www.wegzumselbst.de/dat/Java_5.7.2_Install_fr.prc) <Italian> (http://www.wegzumselbst.de/dat/Java_5.7.2_Install_it.prc)
phreakonaleash
04-10-2008, 09:55 PM
/me gets frustrated and wanders off.
Downloadable <here>
Another Michael
04-11-2008, 05:15 PM
Btw, somebody haven't otherwise noticed. "j9secpol.prc" hack allows avoiding those "user permission check" dialogs in Opera Mini.

But how can i avoid those "user permission check" dialogs in the file operations (JSR75) ?

Any ideas ?
kari
04-13-2008, 07:20 AM
But how can i avoid those "user permission check" dialogs in the file operations (JSR75) ?
Any ideas ?

Seemingly that j9secpol.prc should be updated to contain also permissions for file access.

Try attached "j9secpol_fileconnect.prc"; hexedited to allow full access for all permissions.
Another Michael
04-13-2008, 01:46 PM
Seemingly that j9secpol.prc should be updated to contain also permissions for file access.

Try attached "j9secpol_fileconnect.prc"; hexedited to allow full access for all permissions.

Works 100% perfect !

Thank you very much the second time !
lee555
04-14-2008, 10:20 PM
If you have kinoma installed, and you go to youtube's mobile site using opera mini, clicking on a link will launch kinoma and the video will play back with sound! Using Blazer to launch the vids will give the "unsupported amr codec error".

I'm using Opera nowadays just because of this feature, Opera is turning out to be my favorite browser now.
chuckewe
04-24-2008, 08:12 PM
I've given this 2 chances on my T|X, and I just deleted it today for the second time. It's a HUGE memory hog. It runs very slowly. It has trouble with a lot of pages and won't download them. Navigation around the Opera interface itself is really cumbersome and not intuitive. It crashes/locks up when the cache loads up and I have to keep clearing this manually if I want stability.

I'd take Blazer over this any day, and NetFront beats all IMHO.
<lie<onvert
01-29-2009, 08:39 PM
I recently installed Opera mini, all the requisite files and followed the instructions for setting earlier in the thread. It is really fast. Granted it can't do everything, but as a web browser, I think it rocks. It is more intuitive than NetFront and whips Blazer's ***** in start up and page loading speed.
If you haven't had success yet, I'd try it again.
BTW, I downloaded my files from MyTreo.net
<<
bizzybody
05-28-2009, 12:17 AM
I can't get it to work on my LifeDrive. I got that Java installer, got Opera Mini 4.2 beta.

All Opera does is go through its install routine, asks if it can access the net until it's shut down, then BAM, it causes the LD to reset.

Latest non-beta 4.2 also crashes.