Palm = Windows, Linux, Mac???

[Supertrucker]

This has been bugging me for awhile, so I finally got the guts to ask others about it, and see if I stand alone, or if others agree with me.

1. I love the Palm OS. I don't wish to see it become anything else. The fact that it doesn't truley multitask, probably eliminates almost all the concerns of getting a virus (do you own a copy of Windows?).

This device is a calendar, to do list, memo pad, notepad, isn't that great? I realize that long term Palm enthusists are anxiously awaiting OS II, but is it really welcome?

Perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about, but the only thing I think Palm needs to do is add more RAM (dyamic heap), and more storage.

I can apparantly (haven't tried it yet), load Linux on this device (TX). I've already loaded some old DOS games with Metaviews projects (ZQuake, ZDoom, Duke Nukem), plus Palm DOS box. I can load Flash programs thanks to Dmitry (palmpowerups.com), and cheat the OS's memory handling!

Why not just take a great product and make it better, like a souped up Treo TX?!!

Peace,

ST

[whydidyou]

1. I love the Palm OS. I don't wish to see it become anything else. The fact that it doesn't truley multitask, probably eliminates almost all the concerns of getting a virus (do you own a copy of Windows?).

This doesn't actually make sense. DOS could not multi-task, and there were plenty of DOS viruses. All thats really needed for malware to exist is malicious intent.

[_Em]

The main reason you don't see any PalmOS viruses is that by the time the PalmOS came around, most of the people who had the knowledge and impetus to write a virus were already too busy being gainfully employed. I'm being pedantic here -- viruses are bits of code that are autonomous and infect a host system. These days, you usually get some sort of network worm embedded in a trojan horse program -- neither of which works well on a PalmOS setup, and both of which are simple to write for Windows. So those who write malware go for the path of least resistance.

The PalmOS is self-healing because bits are written to ROM and the rest is backed up regularly to a location where the files cannot execute.

Of course, after saying that, it is possible that someone could conceivably write some malware that uses HotSync as its injection method and can flash a supported device -- but since PalmOS is on the way out, there isn't any incentive for anyone to put the effort into writing something like this.

[Supertrucker]

That's kind of my point. Plus, with utilities like NV backup, restoring is easy (unless a virus deleted them).

In any case, my TX is fairly new, and the ROM on this one isn't flashable. Which I'm fine with, as it prevents me from screwing up my device :)

[BrentDC]

Hi,

ST, how long have you owned a Palm OS device? I'm going on two years, and have gotten a little "fed up" of it. Once, I was very enthusiastic, and thought my Palm was the best thing, but more recently I've stopped focusing on the things it can do, but the things it can't.

[Supertrucker]

Well, I had an E2, and then I upgraded to a TX in the last year in a half or so. Years ago, I had a Palm as well, but I can't remember the model.

[Church Punk]

people who slowly start to dislike palm are only victims of their own wrong expectations, because they dont know exactly what they really want to do in the future. If you get an organizer is to GET YOU ORGANIZED and nothing else.

Like ST said, Palm is a great PDA not a portable pc, I've had my TX 2 years and totally agree. I expect from my TX to remind me of my schedule, todos, write some notes, retrieve mails and help me out with these tasks along the day. Thats why i love the extra features it offers like browse the web, chat with friends, read news, get weather forecast, play music and videos, have fun with ljp :D and do every other task that simply doesnt need to be planed beforehand.

If you want a device that does all this and more in a better way, I dont wonder why you dont like Palm anymore, it wasnt designed for that...

What else do you expect from an organizer? To do everything for you? like you expect toast bread from your fidge... you can do a mod, but why? it wasnt designed for that...

[Cyker]

Yup, you got it right there CP.

I think Sony got it too when they made the TH55 - It's not great for gaming or media, but it's the best PDA I've ever used.

I must admit after having played with some PPCs and using the N800, I am also a bit skeptical about this multitasking lark.

Where an app on PalmOS has been written properly (the context switching where you switch between apps), it has been sufficient for me - You can switch through hundreds of apps with no slowdown, but try this on a PPC or N800 and it'll slow down horribly and, probably, crash.
Of course, you could close down the app after using it every time, but then there goes your multitaking advantage.

The original plan for Cobalt was a good one - Things would still work like PalmOS, but with background threads for things that needed to continue running in the background.

We can already do this in PalmOS by hooking various events, but this is dangerous and unstable and slows the system down a lot more than if there was a 'proper' way of doing it.

A full multitasking system is completely overkill for a PDA. Okay for a handheld computer maybe 'tho.

[Supertrucker]

Bingo CP :) Just ask this question; why did you buy it in the first place, and does it still work?

[Pgr]

I don't want Linux on my Palm for the same reason I don't want Windows on my Palm: I don't think it is the right approach to try to squeeze a full-blown OS into a handheld.

Palm is better than Windows Mobile because it started its life as a handheld OS, and it is designed the right way. It's just a pity that it's been neglected for years.

Multitasking is fine, but it has only marginal use in a handheld - play music, handle some network operations, while keeping the UI available. But not for running many apps at the same time! It's a small screen, folks! See how brilliant the current scheme is:

1- Apps are always available with a hardware button, or only one or two taps away, if you use a decent launcher;

2- they are quick to load because every Palm developer knows, from the start, that their applications can get launched dozens of times a day;

3- They exit automatically when you launch something else! Brilliant, pure genious. I always mock my friends with Pocket PC's when I see them tapping the X on the top-right corner to close apps (BTW, that button should be in the bottom-left corner, where Palm OS buttons appear, that's where your stylus is when you use grafitti to write). Close, close, close. All day long. Forgot to close. Memory full. What a useless drag...

4- You never save, because Palm apps are expected to save everything as soon as you do it (adequate for handling small bits of information, as happens normally in a handheld).

5- Your navigation inside apps is minimal, because most of them just open in the same screen where you left them, if that's what makes sense;

6- All this is very "educational" for developers, it drives them to make apps small, fast, and convenient.

To sum it up: the "Palm OS way" is a brilliant substitute for multitasking, very adequate for handheld devices. Multitasking is good, but only needed for a few specific tasks, and should not replace "Palm OS way" described above.

just my 2 cents... :)

[_Em]

I don't want Linux on my Palm for the same reason I don't want Windows on my Palm: I don't think it is the right approach to try to squeeze a full-blown OS into a handheld.

Well, remember this: Linux is a kernel, not an OS. I agree that Linux 2.6.* is a bit overkill for a PDA (we aren't doing hyperthreading, multiple processors, virtualization, etc.) but a stripped down 2.4 or 2.2 kernel can work quite well in a PDA, and take up a very small amount of space (less than 800Kb).