1SRC Podcast 155

[Alan G]

No TX2! ACCESS releases the Garnet VM for Nokia Internet tablets, and rumors of a GSM Centro persist after a review was posted online! Check out this week's 1SRC Podcast! [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=2019)]

[holvoetn]

Alan, something went wrong.
You made a reference to the file 1srcpodcast153.mp3 whereas it should have been 1srcpodcast155.mp3 (caught that because when I wanted to copy it first to my archive on USB drive it asked me to OVERWRITE which made me go "uh oh, something's not right here" :D )
Listening to the podcast I conclude it is indeed the 153 podcast. Can this be fixed pls ?
Manually correcting the link to point to 155 seems to be a workaround for now:
http://www.1src.com/podcasts/1srcpodcast155.mp3 (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3?http://www.1src.com/podcasts/1srcpodcast155.mp3)

[holvoetn]

Re: Centro GSM: Google Cache to the rescue :D
http://tinyurl.com/252upp

[Alan G]

H,

Thanks for the catch on the podcast. It looked like the link for the .mp3 download from the show notes was still pointing to show 153. The link in the feed for download via iTunes, for example, was correct. Show 155 should download normally for all download options.

And thanks for finding the Google cache of the Centro review. I've captured it for future reference.

Alan G

[holvoetn]

iTunes ? Who needs i<whatever> when you have a Palm PDA ?

You really need to walk the talk, Alan :D:D

[g-funkster]

iTunes ? Who needs i<whatever> when you have a Palm PDA?iDo ;)

Thanks for the cache link.

[Alan G]

Walk the wal.....Holvy, you know I'm and uber Palm geek. But I have been using Apple hardware since 1984 so my loyalties are split.

I do have non-DRM music on my Treo. Does that count?

Alan G
From my 700p

[ewah]

I wanted to comment on the access release of garnet vm.

First your information on the pricing of the n800 was incorrect. The current street price is around $250 since the n810 release in the US is about two weeks away. The older device is the n770 and the fact that the vm runs on this device is impressive. The n810 which has two new features builtin GPS and a slide out keyboard will be between $400-$450 when released. Also if you go on Access' website and check the FAQ the garnet vm will be free even after it is out of beta.

I want to comment on three different aspects of what this news means. First a quick review. Back a few years I believe it was Palm's strategy to separate the hardware from the software, to get the OS on more devices, hence the spin off of palm source from palm. This failed for whatever reason but the concept was correct in my opinion, lets get the palm os and apps running on as many devices as possible. Fast forward to this weeks announcement and this goal has been acheived or atleast still has some legs left. Now since Palm isn't the company making this news there are two sides to this news.

For Palm the cell phone company this is a complete disaster unless they are helping access behind the scenes which I doubt. That a company can release the older version of palm os on a linux device before them (and I doubt the n-series will be the last) must sting to no end. If access makes this work well they could license the garnet vm to any and all cell phone makers and palms unique status of running palm apps is gone.

Now for the User and lover and or Developer of palm apps this is great news. With the recent announcement from Google about android and the lack of Palm apparently taking part I was thinking the death of the palm developer was right around the corner. Now with Access reviving the old OS which most apps run on anyway on new hardware, faster processors, etc the palm developer may stick around long enough to create some new and exciting apps. Thinking over the last several years I can't think of any really earthshattering palm apps although I admit to checking out of the day to day palm software scene in favor of the n-series and linux.

So in the end this is a huge win for users and developers who love the palm os apps. As for palm I think it is just another nail in their coffin.

tim

[tk_421]

That's strange... At the Centro release, I believe Ed Colligan said that they were not abandonning the PDAs, just that they had been neglected because of the focus on smartphones. From his comment, it really felt like they were considering releasing another one. This was on 1src, but I couldn't find it in the archives. It was at the digital st conference, were they first showed the Centro.

For me, it's very simple: I need a large screen all-in-one device in my pocket. One that serves as a phone, camera, voice recorder, personnal organizer, finances, ebook reader, language dictionaries, music and media, picture wallet, and internet through wifi. Right now the only such devices are from the windows mobile camp. But wm has this "laptop" feeling I just don't like carrying around when I go out with friends or go for a walk. I need something more user-friendly, more "lifestyle".


I don't really want a TX2, just a TX with a cell radio. That strategy seems to be working for Apple. Why can't Palm release such a device is beyond me.


So the writing is on the wall for me as well: I'll enjoy my TX while it lasts, and in when the iphone will get the third party applications I need, I will just get one. Only TX with cell radio could make me change my mind at this point. The Treo's screen is just too small for me.


The release of the iphone SDK will be the kiss of death for Palm. Development on the iPhone will dwarf current development on the PalmOS, or even PalmOS 2 for that matter.


Palm perhaps knows this, which is why it is going for the casual market with a device like the Centro. If that stance can accelerate iphone development, than it's great I guess.


Let's not forget that Apple invented the PDA. It's only natural that they will carry the flame once again.

[ewah]

The release of the iphone SDK will be the kiss of death for Palm. Development on the iPhone will dwarf current development on the PalmOS, or even PalmOS 2 for that matter.



Remember the iphone runs a version of osx which is based on freebsd which is a slight variant of linux so garnet vm running on the iphone is totally possible.

tim

[tk_421]

Remember the iphone runs a version of osx which is based on freebsd which is a slight variant of linux so garnet vm running on the iphone is totally possible.

tim


Surely someone will adapt the Garnet vm for the iphone. PalmOS emulation on the iphone shouldn't take too long to be released.

And with the exact same screen resolution as the TX, it will look perfect! The iPhone2 is the TX2.

[BaDZeD]

Great podcast, Alan! And you don't need to worry about keeping them short, we want rants, dammit! Plus it makes one enjoyable drive to work in the morning.

As far as the handhelds bit, I was kinda expecting it. After getting my Centro, i have found myself using the TX less and less (mainly for navigation purposes now) so I kinda agree on that frame of thinking. And as for my TX, I pretty much got myself an upgrade. I am a proud owner of a EEE Pc, which incidentally has also been reported to run Garnet VM. So a combination of phone/subnotebook seems to work pretty well for me for work purposes, so I think Palm had the right idea (still upset they put the plug on the foleo).

[bstryd]

I, too, remember that Palm was not abandoning the PDA arena, but he might have meant they plan to support for a long time. He also could have been "flexible" with his definition and meant the Folio.

But here's the intriguing thing to me -- Apple releasing the iPod Touch. Hey - this is Apple going into PDA mode. If that market is dead, why are they doing it? Oh, yea, media players. Hmmm... back to the fact that Palms can do it all and are not known for this -- BUT -- really, iTunes is the killer app, not the iPod whatever. Its the ease and dependability of non-geektoid syncing that is the really winner here. Shoot, if Palm had just hooked the LifeDrive up with Napster-Legit, that would have been pretty slick.

[quasar]

The Garnet VM appeals to me and has solidified my decision to leave my LifeDrive behind this Christmas. It's been increasingly useless to me, as I take my laptop with me everywhere, which does most of the same things. The n800 with Garnet means I would have the power of my laptop, the mobility of a PDA, and wouldn't need to find as much replacement software as I would if I found a different product to replace my LD.

[intellidryad]

Apple releasing the iPod Touch. Hey - this is Apple going into PDA mode.

To all people who rank the iPod Touch as a PDA:
I don't agree with that, as a PDA should first and foremost help you arrange your life. That's where the "assistant" comes from. The PIMs on the iPod Touch are made as an after thought, as shown by Apple's removing the Calender edit function.

They market it as a media player/personal entertainment, and put in a web browser to make full use of the iTunes music store enabling WIFI.

It may also be classified as an "internet tablet", but with the main focus not on PIMs, it just SEEMS like a PDA, but for most customers (other then the geek market) DON'T SELL like a PDA.

I'd rather put PDAs in the personal organizer catagory.

[tk_421]

The PIMs on the iPod Touch are made as an after thought, as shown by Apple's removing the Calender edit function.



This was due to a bug, according to Steve Jobs himself. This was just fixed in the last firmware update.

The ipod Touch will get all the applications that the iphone will get after the release of the sdk come February. So expect lots of fantastic third party PIM applications to catter to former PalmOS users. I agree that right now the iPod Touch is a glorified media player, but the sdk release will make it into a full blown PDA.

Palm PIMs are hard to beat, I must agree with you there. But give me Ultrasoft Money and Handyshopper on the iphone, and I'll switch. Unless, of course, a large screen Treo is released before the end of the decade, which I doubt. I just can't organize anything if my eyes hurt, so I'll take the limited iphone PIM over a poststamp Treo screen anyday.

[Alan G]

I wanted to comment on the access release of garnet vm.
First your information on the pricing of the n800 was incorrect. The current street price is around $250 since the n810 release in the US is about two weeks away.

The information I looked at on the Nokia NSeries site (http://nokia-nseries.letstalk.com/product/recommendproduct.htm?index=1&cartsid=463040667&ft=1&tfdPrId=&devicePrId=32245&servicePrId=28726) says otherwise. The n810 may still be two weeks away, but that information was not able on the n810 page that I looked at.

Alan G

[Alan G]

That's strange... At the Centro release, I believe Ed Colligan said that they were not abandonning the PDAs, just that they had been neglected because of the focus on smartphones. From his comment, it really felt like they were considering releasing another one. This was on 1src, but I couldn't find it in the archives. It was at the digital st conference, were they first showed the Centro.

It is my belief that at this time, if it doesn't have to do with Palm OS II and the next new-new Treo, the plans are being shelfed. The Foleo got mothballed and I suspect that any plans to do a TX2 suffered the same fate.

For me, it's very simple: I need a large screen all-in-one device in my pocket. One that serves as a phone, camera, voice recorder, personnal organizer, finances, ebook reader, language dictionaries, music and media, picture wallet, and internet through wifi.

Maybe one of these Nokia tablets with the Garnet VM is in your future.

I don't really want a TX2, just a TX with a cell radio. That strategy seems to be working for Apple. Why can't Palm release such a device is beyond me.

They don't have an OS that can drive that device yet.

Let's not forget that Apple invented the PDA. It's only natural that they will carry the flame once again.

Yes, Apple's former CEO, John Scully, did kick start the PDA market. He even coined the phrase "Personal Digital Assistant." But it was Jeff Hawkins & Co. that made the first really successful PDA. When Jobs came back to Apple, he killed all the projects that weren't seen as core to the company's business and so the Newton went the way of the dino. To me, it looks like Palm's new board is doing the same think at Palm right now. If it isn't core, it gets put on the shelf until Palm OS II is done and a newly redesigned Treo is on the street.

Alan G

[tk_421]

Alan,

The Nokia is not a smartphone, so I have no use for it. It wouldn't give me anything more than my TX. I'll take a real Palm device over a VM anyday.

I suspect that both you and Brighthand have special ties with Palm that lead you to believe that it's over for PDAs, because Colligan's comment implied that there would be something new someday, and there have been no comments from then. Otherwise I would take Colligan's last words for what they most likely meant. I'll just hold on to my TX for the next few years in any case.


Palm could release a 320x480 Treo, there is nothing about Garnet that forbids that. Garnet does not allow two simultaneous connections, right? But one at a time is fine. If using wifi on a PalmOS Treo meant having to put the phone in standby, I wouldn't mind one bit.


PalmOS2 might not even be an option for me because I need Japanese support, which may or may not be available, at least for thr first year. I really want to stay with Palm because they have the best platform for personal productivity. WM is too messy, it confuses me! The iphone's viability for PIM will depend on third party application development, which could take a year at least.

Until Palm releases a TX with cell radio, I'll have to stick with two devices, even though it's not my preference.

[holvoetn]

Palm could release a 320x480 Treo, there is nothing about Garnet that forbids that. And you could always use the wifi card, right? Garnet does not allow two simultaneous connections, right? But one at a time is fine. If using wifi on a PalmOS Treo meant having to put the phone in standby, I wouldn't mind one bit. I am with you here.
At home I would even prefer the WiFi part since that would allow me to use the device as VoIP phone (have VoIP connection for my normal subscription).
Otherwise the calls coming from cellular connection would be for work anyhow :rolleyes:

[tk_421]

Just note that I corrected the bit about the wifi card. I don't believe it's ever been supported on the Treo.

Except for the wifi problem, I still love Garnet. If they could hack around Garnet to enable wifi on Treos, I'd be very hopeful. The next wm treo has wifi, so perhaps they were able to figure it out for POS too.

[holvoetn]

Just note that I corrected the bit about the wifi card. I don't believe it's ever been supported on the Treo.... because of the inability of Garnet to handle two channels.
Disable one of both and it should work.
There were attempts to transport patched T5 wifi drivers to 650 and that worked to some extend. Provided some more effort this might very well be possible, it is just that Palm never wanted to do this.

[tk_421]

... because of the inability of Garnet to handle two channels.
Disable one of both and it should work.



I've read that some HTC device (one with a large VGA screen) had such a crippled wifi implementation, at least on some carrier. When wifi was on, no calls could be taken. (Or maybe just push e-mail? Not sure about that.)

I would definitely get such a device, but we have to agree that it might be a bit confusing for many users who would wind up missing calls.

At least, they could make a 320x480 Treo. Then only wifi would be missing.

[ewah]

The information I looked at on the Nokia NSeries site (http://nokia-nseries.letstalk.com/product/recommendproduct.htm?index=1&cartsid=463040667&ft=1&tfdPrId=&devicePrId=32245&servicePrId=28726) says otherwise. The n810 may still be two weeks away, but that information was not able on the n810 page that I looked at.

Alan G

I was going off what my brother just paid for the n800 two weeks ago at compusa. $250

[Alan G]

I suspect that both you and Brighthand have special ties with Palm that lead you to believe that it's over for PDAs, because Colligan's comment implied that there would be something new someday, and there have been no comments from then. Otherwise I would take Colligan's last words for what they most likely meant. I'll just hold on to my TX for the next few years in any case.

While I am associated with Brighthand (I'm a moderator over there) I can't speak to what access Ed Hardy and the folks in the admin offices have with Palm. I can tell you that I have no professional relationship with any of the folks over at Palm. (Alan is a moderator for the Palm Help Forums, however, that affords me no access to what is going on in the corporate headquarters.)

Alan G

[Alan G]

There were attempts to transport patched T5 wifi drivers to 650 and that worked to some extend. Provided some more effort this might very well be possible, it is just that Palm never wanted to do this.

That is a really good thread to read. There was such an interesting atmosphere of community in that thread. As far as I know, the VZW 1.0.5 ROM update broke the ability to use the Wi-Fi drivers on the Treo 650 and later Palm OS smartphones.

Alan G

[Alan G]

I was going off what my brother just paid for the n800 two weeks ago at compusa. $250

Interesting. I'm still not getting one.

Alan G

[ewah]

Interesting. I'm still not getting one.

Alan G


haha. I didn't think it would be that easy. I'm truly a lover of palm software, and palm but watching the events of the last couple of years has just worn me down, so much innovation is going on.. I hope palm can pull it together and come up with a great product that isn't a cell phone.

I was thinking last night about a comment someone made here about the iphone not being a PIM. At first I was thinking the same thing, it isn't but then I got to thinking if Jeff Hawkins walked around today with his block of wood what would he come up with. With so many address book/calendar/email/ online ala gmail, etc wouldn't the PIM device be defined differently? Wouldn't it be a video/audio/online device with the true PIM's taking a back seat....

I'm also curious what do you think of the idea of other phone manufacturers using the garnet vm to offer palm functionality. Isn't that a real threat to the coolness of the palm lines... Do you think Access did this to hurt palm or do you think they are just using the business assets they purchased?

tim

[miles4000]

I'm not looking to buy another PDA. Currently use TX and dont have a smartphone. I'm waiting to see new linux based Palm phones and possible Foleo II device. I know it might be a long wait!

[Alan G]

I would say that we are in for a good 14 month wait at least.

Alan G