What would it take to make you leave Palm?

[ProfJonathan]

I've been thrilled with my T|X since I got it almost 2 years ago, but I'm beginning to bump up against its limitations again, especially when it comes to being online. The low-quality browsers, the memory management issues which impact on speed of use, and similar issues are beginning to frustrate me. More to the point, my T|X is showing its age physically, even though I'm very careful with it, and I can envision a day when I have to replace it or move to a different device.

Since Palm seems totally uninterested in the PDA-only market these days, and since the next PalmOS is promised for, oh, sometime in the next few years, I am not optimistic that I will have a better PalmOS handheld with at least 320x480 and Wi-Fi to move to. (A smartphone would be nice, but I won't swap my fullscreen for a thumbboard, any more than I'd willingly go back to my Tungsten C, as nice a device as that was, for the same reason.) I've been looking very closely at both the iPhone and iPod Touch to see if they're a good alternative for me, but for now, they just aren't, because they lack the basic features I use every day on my T|X.

On the other hand, if the following features are added to the iPod Touch/iPhone:

Bluetooth keyboard compatibility
Cut and Paste (!)
MS Office doc editing

I would strongly consider switching. If, beyond that, Apple or a 3rd party ported Graffiti 1 (a stylus is supposedly available (http://tapright.igiki.com/iPhone_Stylus_TapRight.html), or I could always use my fingertip) for quick text entry, and eBook readers like Mobipocket were ported, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

I'm just curious what other T|X users think about this question. What's your next device, assuming Palm continues to delay and your T|X wears out? Thanks for your thoughts. {ProfJonathan}

[vovka1965]

Well, I just got my Palm, so I will hopefully stick with it for a while..
But I will probably migrate back to WM if Palm does not come out with any whizz bang stuff.
I think the memory stability problems on the Palm are exaggerated. There is usually an app conflict or two and once you work through the bugs (and/or get Dmitry's fixes), you don't have any surprises anymore..
I would like to see more NVFS-aware full-screen apps for Palm though (I learned to stay away from some older stuff).

[I love my mom]

I'd say my next PDA will be the Centro, without the service plan. It appears it can't hurt to have a PDA with a CMDA radio in it :) The only thing I'd regret losing from my TX is the 320x480 screen, but I'll say it's a worthy trade for the thumb board.

I want to leave Palm already, but I've got too many ties.

[FerdFerd]

I expect that by the time my TX is ready to be replaced, my iPhone will have taken its place anyway. Just a hunch, but the coming of third party applications (February) makes this seem likely to me.

[brandon-wan]

i just sold my tx and fixed a lifedrive with a bad hd. now it's a lifeflash (my 2nd) and i'll stick with it until hell freezes over. or until something else catches my eye... :p

[joemun]

Probably I'll have to switch to a WM device... but if ASUS makes something like a Tx with linux (a little smaller than the eee) I wouldn't doubt to switch to it...

[Gregte]

I think that as soon as the iPod touch and iPhone are opened up to developers there will be an explosion of software written for them. As soon as they add bluetooth there will be 3rd party vendors making keyboards and even clip-on thumb boards for them.

[juggernaut#2]

I´m using palm pda´s for more than 10 years now and hence, I am sort of used to them. Basically I´m lazy and wouldn´t want to try some new BS (well, wouldn ´t want to have to). The TX pretty much meets my needs except for lacking some features that the T3 had - voice memo in particular - but those are not gonna be incorporated into some new palm. I hate smartphones since all I´ve seen are neither smart nor phones.

Furthermore I believe that in a time not too far in the future you´re not gonna be allowed to carry some device equipped with a camera in many places. Since at least in my job this is already the case in >50% of the places I go, I´d hate to leave not only my phone at the desk, but my appointments etc. as well - that´s why I´ll stick to carrying two devices.

Guess I´ll stick to the TX until it breaks and I don´t get a new one off ebay. If that would happen, I´d look around, but for sure I´d never use something as pretty as the iPhone or such - rather I´d use some HTC device, and probably I´d make my decision by the degree of support for groupwise (if I´d still use that, then).

[LupeValenz]

what would it take for me to leave palm? Palm delaying Palm OSII over and over! They must be full of themselves to think they can do this and we will be still here waiting for them.

[scottl]

I know Palm could treat us better and pull through on a promise on occasion or at least offer some fixes that FIX the darn devices, but I'm staying til the end. As mentioned in my thread here (http://forum.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=249118), I have invested too much in Palm software to walk away until that coffin (with SO MANY nails in it) is actually six feet under. I am absolutely torn on whether to buy another TX to keep me going if my current one fails, but there's always a chance Palm will release a TX2 or some other decent PDA. I know, I'm not holding my breath, but it could happen - I only wish Palm would just show a commiment to the dedicated PDA...

[ProfJonathan]

I too have much invested in Palm software, but I do wonder: does an iPhone/iPod Touch have enough computing horsepower to reliably run a PalmOS emulator?

[cyberdude]

I too have much invested in Palm software, but I do wonder: does an iPhone/iPod Touch have enough computing horsepower to reliably run a PalmOS emulator?
Don't know, I've been thinking along those lines too. I also have waaaaay too much money and time invested in Palm software. I use an abandonware product on my TX to track my computers at work - it is indispensable! (tecsync)

[_Em]

What it would take me to leave Palm is a device with an open development platform, open expansion format (SD/SDIO), all the things the TX has, vibration mode, LED, microphone and possibly tilt sensors. The device would also need an active development community and a good software base.

Think iPod Touch with better third party software support and an SD slot.

[JayWigley]

Don't hold your breath waiting for a PDA-like device from Apple. They seem too proprietary in their approach to all things to allow any *really* different software on their devices. Do you think they'll permit 3rd party developers to create anything like a TCPMP or even an Agendus? No way--it would compete with their software and business model.

[_Em]

Sadly, I agree with you. The best thing we can hope for is that Apple is declared a monopoly in the portable entertainment area, and is forced to sign apps based on merit and not on company profits. Of course, I'm sure they charge for the app signing service.

Maybe Creative should change markets -- I have a feeling they could do pretty well with a Linux-based PDA.

[cms]

Maybe Creative should change markets -- I have a feeling they could do pretty well with a Linux-based PDA.

Strange, I was thinking the same thing.

TI should also attempt at making a "Palm like" PDA, though they have alot of things on their hands as it is (DLP, TI-nspire Graph caculator, ect.)

[jstrubberg]

The iPhone with Windows Mobile 6 would do it very quickly...

[Bliss]

If openmoko comes out with the neo1973 with wi-fi before palm offers me a treo with wifi, I'll jump boats. Heck I'd be using and developing for the openmoko stack already if it wherent for the fact that the developer neo1973 lacks wifi yet, and I need it for my daily use.

What would it take for me to go to an iPhone instead of a treo or openmoko? 3 things:

a) They offer a form of small bluetooth key/thumb-board.
b) The SDK in february doesn't makes apple-signing mandatory
c) Either ereader or mobipocket port a reader.

If all these three happen, I'll jump board to iPhone instead.

[pokeypda]

Not being able to fix the dbcache shortage on my TX.

[stevec]

Having to dump my nice stable T5 and go to a flaky TX...

[Palmisok]

It really wouldn't take a lot. Hell, if some of the newer PDAs dropped their prices or went on sale I would probably drop the TX and go for the WM PDA. I mean, newer tech, OS, updates, programs, programmers, there's so much that Palm is missing that you can't possibly justify its limitations.

[stevec]

Has anyone here transferred Agendus from Palm to WM? I've got a lot invested in the Palm but Palm's inability to let me fully HotSync it with Vista means that any problem with my T5 will probably mean a re-evaluation. I did this when Sony pulled out of the Clie market - Palm seemed to have recovered some initiative with the T5 (and the LifeDrive held out a lot of promise for the future) but they seem to have abandoned the non-Treo market (and, as others have said, I don't want an all-in-one).

If I moved, I could replace all the killer apps but I wonder how well Agendus would transfer - for example, I know I'll have to rebuild my icon set.

[Cyker]

What it would take me to leave Palm is a device with an open development platform, open expansion format (SD/SDIO), all the things the TX has, vibration mode, LED, microphone and possibly tilt sensors. The device would also need an active development community and a good software base.

Think iPod Touch with better third party software support and an SD slot.

The newset revision GP2X has a lot of those things...

http://gp2x.co.uk/


Just avoid the original version: My friend has one, and it isn't good. It is like something some random guy made it in his shed.
The new one is apparently much better (It now has a usable D-Pad for one!), but the biggest issue is there're not enough devs for it :/
It feels a bit like the early days of PalmOS...



As for dropping Palm... meh. Never liked Palm since the m-series; They are like 3Dfx - Beyond their initial flying start they have failed to innovate in any meaningful way, or even maintain what good stuff they had, and basically dropped the ball right into the hands of the damned PPC.

Been a Clie person since I got a T625 and saw the attention to detail Sony had put into it, and will probably stay one until my TH55 stops working...
By that time (Which hopefully will be a long long way away!), I'm hoping there will be something to replace it...

[HzR]

I have my Tx 1 year now after having used multiple other Palms. I still love it and it's still going strong. The occassional reset and slow starting programs do bug me and I've been looking around as well. What to do when it breaks. If Palm came out with a Tx II with a nice slick user interface, great browsing, mic, vibrate and lots of memory, I'd buy it in an instant!

I also have the problem that I bought lots of software that I don't want to give up. I couldn't live without some of them.

I like having 2 seperate devices, but the Centro does kind of appeal to me. I would be missing the wifi and big screen though.
The iPhone is more eye candy than practicality to me, maybe the iPhone II will be more what I'm looking for, wait and see.
Somehow WM just doesn't appeal to me although a lot of the Palm software titles are available for this OS as well.

Has anyone looked at the Nokia N810 (http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3669465936.html) internet tablet? It's linux based, has a big screen (800x480!), good browser and even built-in GPS and a slide-out keyboard. I think there is quite an active developer community. This could tempt me if it was avialable without camera, had good PIM apps, Bonsai and a synch conduit...

The only thing is, I bought a Nokia E50 business smart phone last year, mainly because it was one of the only available phones without a camera. I'm not allowed to bring a camera to work, so a TX and a phone work great for me.
The Symbian user interface on the E50 really s#@*s though. It can edit office documents, PDF's and the lot, but it's such a pain to navigate that I'm worried the N810 will be similar even though it's not Symbian....

Ah well, my dream device doesn't exist yet, I'll give it another year...

[jstrubberg]

Now that N810 is an intersting option. Provided the types of software I use are available, I would definitely consider going back to a more basic cell phone and replacing my TX with the N810.

[pelaez-1]

As other have said, I have invested an important amount of money on Palm Software and Palm devices to walk away from it, considering I'm only 17. However, I don't mind having multiple devices.

I don't want a Palm Smartphone for some reasons: Small screen, Useless Thumboard (IMO), and the fact that it is not either a good PDA nor a good mobile phone, since it has to be both, it's more of a ok PDA and a ok mobile phone.

So, what I do is, I have a TX, a Sony Ericsson Mobile phone (I'm very used to the OS, they have the most features (BT, IRdA, Music, Camera, Java, etc.) and Ihave a lot of apps for it (Mostly games :D) and an iPod Touch.

I always take my Sony Ericsson with me, and alternate my Palm an iPod whenever i might need any of those. (iPod is for music only, Palm is for managing my tasks, playing, and stuff like that)

So no, I'm not leaving Palm any time soon, but that doesn't keep me from having other devices. :rolleyes:

[HzR]

Ok, forget about that Nokia N810. I just read about the Android project from the Open Handset Alliance (website (http://www.android.com/index.html)) This sounds a lot like what Palm OS II should have been. Over 30 tech companies are involved in creating an open source mobile OS and applications with all the support systems. First handsets expected 2nd half of 2008.
This sound very good, so if there is no new Palm PDA by then, this might just be the next thing!

But I'll wait and see, the iPhone dissapointed me so far as well, but this is open!

[Bliss]

So is openmoko www.openmoko.org and they have a developer phone already on the market

[ftwitty]

Leave Palm? Sure, but for whom? Apple? Not any time soon. Too bad Sony dropped out of the game. Competition is a wonderful thing and Palm doesn't have any that's meaningful enough to force Palm to develop a Tx2 or anything except phones that are terrible phones.

[lichan]

How about an N810 with a Garnet VM? Last one to leave Palm, turn out the lights.

[ftwitty]

How about an N810 with a Garnet VM? Last one to leave Palm, turn out the lights.
Please fill us in.

[lichan]

It's in the article at the top of the 1SRC home page and in the most recent forums list.

[ftwitty]

It's in the article at the top of the 1SRC home page and in the most recent forums list.
Looks interesting except for the small memory size. This could signal the start of something that would put a hurting on Palm (the hardware folks)...... Ah some competition. :D

[_Em]

I'd like to see them switch from OMAP to something more recent like XScale; if the price is right (sub-$400), I'll definitely be moving from Palm to Nokia for my next handheld device.

[Palmisok]

yeah, price is the only thing blocking me from a PPC right now. Hell, I've been trying like crazy to get at least an axim x51v for under 200 on ebay, but no such luck. I'm more willing to switch over since the used TX that I bought can't even be overclocked to 520 while other people here are saying that theirs can go up to 614 with no problem. That just plain sucks.

[alt236]

As my work requirements changed over the years, I might be jumping to the Nokia bandwagon soon.
I'm pretty sure that all the Palm apps that I use will work on the VM (they don't use any fancy calls or have armlets) and I will also have an OS I can really work on in my hands.

@_Em
I haven't followed the OMAP vs XScale differences the last couple of years, but at around 2005 OMAP was outperforming XScale, IIRC?

[PinCushionQueen]

I just read about this Nokia N810 yesterday... I'm definately going to be watching development and pricing - but I think I'll be joining the Nokia Bandwagon for my next device - it looks soooooo sweet!!

[cms]

The APPTAP'ed (3rdparty unlocked) Iphones are really getting my attention, If this keeps up, my next phone might be an iphone.

Check out this cool launcher program

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple/iphone-dock-v20-program-is-awesome-296382.php

[cms]

For a $500 price point, The Nokia N810 looks like an awsome buy.

1src news shows that nokia will be able to use palm apps. This not only shows that a palm emulator can be made from palm to use on a nokia, but also shows that when Palm II comes out, they should have a os5 emulator on it as well, their both linux based operating systems.

I will be watching the N810, 3rdparty enabled iphones, and Palm II OS. Im very interested in all 3 now.

[alt236]

By the way, you can find N810's manual here:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=233495&fcc_id=%27LJPRX-44%27

For some reason, firefox things that its a .cgi file but it is a pdf.

[DiBosco]

The thing that keeps me with Palm are being able to write with a wand (the pathetically small keyboards some have are, well pathetic), the nice size and weight, decent battery life, decent enough speed and simplicity of use. Really, the only thing I miss on Palm is a better search facility so I could, for example, search in just calendar or just address book. I would ideally like better support for larger SD cards as well.

I would certainly change to a Linux device if it had the above facilities as I am a big fan of open source.

[Johniw]

I figure one more encounter with palm online support might just do it for me...

[palmTE]

When I see one more indication that Palm has abandoned the PDA market and existing user support.
What's keeping me is the Sprint Sero plan which works with with Palm and WinMob pdas, but not Blackberry. So... I'm getting a Palm Centro. Despite the various Palm limitations and archaic OS it looks like the best way of filling my needs without a lot of overhead tweaking the device.
That Nokia looks like a KO though, once I can think of an excuse to open the wallet...

[theoldcop]

I currently have a Blackberry Pearl, Nokia N800, Ipod Touch and Palm TX.

The TX is the third Palm device I've owned. I always gravitate back toward the Palm. I have always found the OS to be very stable and the launcher(s) very intuitive. As a PIM device I don't believe it can be beat.

The Blackberry fairs well, but the screen is too small and data enry physically awkward (at least for me).

The Ipod is "neat", and the display is first rate but no functional PIM. You can add to calendar events, but cannot edit contact info. Access to my wirelss router is very nice, but this is trtue for the TX as well, although it might be a bit slower.

The Nokia is very nice. Great screen resolution and ergonomically well designed. On a VERY personal note I find it absolutely insane that the N800 was created without the forethought of including a comprehensive PIM suite (yes...I have the GPE software installed and still find it uncomfortable). Additionally, the Maemo verbiage drives me NUTS!!!! I find that I rarely have a clue as to the function of a particular piece of software by its' name. I know this will seem insignificant to others, but there seems to this small mind that the Maemo language is of its' own design/planet!

Regardless of the launcher or software I use on the Palm, the TX is the device I use most often, by a long shot. Especially now that where I work (Northport, NY) the cable ISP has installed numerous hot spots.

My impressions are based on "out of the box" device functionality. I am sure there are add-ons, mod's and a whole host of "...yeah, but if you did this to it" that would improve any of the deficiencies I've listed.

So, to answer the original question, nothing at this point in time nor for the forseeable future!!

John
thecop@optonline.net