1SRC Podcast 152

[Alan G]

This week Palm closes the deal with Elevation Partners, Centro sales appear strong, and we review Astraware Boardgames. [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=2012)]

[holvoetn]

Quick first reaction (only read the Show notes):
While dbscan is free it is no longer being maintained.
The successor, DbFixIt, will still allow for free removal of deleted records. Fixing all other errors requires you to register.

[intellidryad]

Last time Palm said they need until 2008 for OS II, my reaction was just hoping that they won't postpone it again next year. Yet they are already farther postponing it NOW.

Great, what should we wait for next year, more postpoing?

[LupeValenz]

Great podcast and way to go junior podcasters! Great show....except for the part about that delay....that just makes me....grrrr. Just wait 6 months down the line and OSII will still be 18 months to be out >.<

[Alan G]

Last time Palm said they need until 2008 for OS II, my reaction was just hoping that they won't postpone it again next year. Yet they are already farther postponing it NOW.

Great, what should we wait for next year, more postpoing?

I honestly don't know what to expect. I really wanted to go on a rant last night, but I though better of it so I can collect some more information and make sure I have my facts straight. I'm really not happy.

Alan G

[Alan G]

Great podcast and way to go junior podcasters!

Meghan and Katie say "Thank you!".

Great show....except for the part about that delay....that just makes me....grrrr. Just wait 6 months down the line and OSII will still be 18 months to be out

When it seems like hardware changes a waiting on the new software and the new software keeps getting pushed out, I really hate to say it, I mean I really hate to say it will there be enough power-users left to care?

I would like to move up to a newer Palm OS phone like the Centro or the 755p, but they are $400 and $600 each without a new service plan or extending my existing plan another 2 years. This is such a poor situation to be in. Maybe I'll just sit tight until my contract runs out and then see how much farther Palm OS II is out. My contract is up in May.

Alan G

[ewah]

I have long said that palm was on the wrong track. The only thing I can think of requiring 18 months from now is that they are starting over and scraping everything they had.

Not too bring up a point I've made here before but Nokia is releasing yet another update to the Internet Tablet line, the N810, I will be buying one of these the day it comes out. So Palm, this is three devices in about 3 years at roughly $400 a pop and nothing from you.

Again I'm a long time very bummed supporter of palm who just got tired of waiting. I feel for everyone who may be realizing this very same thing. Products keep coming out from others and nothing from palm that you want.. After a while you just can't stand still.

tim

[intellidryad]

I honestly don't know what to expect. I really wanted to go on a rant last night, but I though better of it so I can collect some more information and make sure I have my facts straight. I'm really not happy.

Alan G

If you did go on a rant, maybe you'd get a little of the "Jeff Kirvin" entertainment factor LOL

(Just kidding)

[holvoetn]

Alan: "Welcome to our junior podcasters, hi girls"
1st girl: "Hi ..." <hesitation can be heard>
2nd girl: <without hesitation>"Hi dad !"

Sooo sweeeet :D ;)

PS you really sounded depressed with that announcement, Alan.

[Alan G]

If you did go on a rant, maybe you'd get a little of the "Jeff Kirvin" entertainment factor LOL

I was too afraid I'd say something that I didn't mean. I wouldn't want to go burning any bridges. It is better that I chose to wait. Maybe I'll get Jeff to come on the show and rant a bit. You know, get Jeff to do my dirty work. LOL (Apologies to Jeff.)

Alan G

[Alan G]

Alan: "Welcome to our junior podcasters, hi girls"
1st girl: "Hi ..." <hesitation can be heard>
2nd girl: <without hesitation>"Hi dad !"

Sooo sweeeet

Yes, Meghan, my older daughter gets caught up looking at all the stuff on the screen. My younger daughter, Katie, hops on my lap and wants to play with the Treo. They had fun helping Dad out.

PS you really sounded depressed with that announcement, Alan.

I was totally not prepared for this announcement. Honestly. First we were told by the end of 2007. Then it was 2008; make that the end of 2008. Now we're hearing 2009. Should we just assume that Palm means the end of 2009? We first heard that Palm was investigating a Linux-based platform all the way back at the end of 2005 just after the Tungsten T5 came out. I know we won't get it, but I would love to get a better idea of how far along Palm is and what they've been up to all this time.

I may just put Palm OS II aside for a while.

Alan G

[I love my mom]

I keep seeing the announcements that say no Linux smartphones until '09, what about PDAs? I don't read the press announcements so I wouldn't know myself.

Another great show, Alan. You've got a great radio voice :D

[LupeValenz]

Meghan and Katie say "Thank you!".

Alan

Your welcome ^_^/ If there is some depressing news coming out, you should have them on more often, they helped made it a cheerful podcast ^.^

[Alan G]

I keep seeing the announcements that say no Linux smartphones until '09, what about PDAs? I don't read the press announcements so I wouldn't know myself.

I think that Palm is of two minds on refreshing the TX. They know people want it, but are struggling with what improvements really make sense. Would you buy a TX|2 if the only improvement is the overall amount of on-board memory? Is that worth $300? I'm not so sure. Plus, if Palm OS II is really as late as it sounds, would a new PDA distract Palm from Palm OS II?

I just don't know.

Another great show, Alan. You've got a great radio voice

Thank you.

Alan G

[BaDZeD]

The sad thing is that they already have a working linux system. I mean a TX refresh with a FoleOS on it wouldn't be such a bad idea. I mean hardware wise (cpu and ram), they are pretty similar.

[Alan G]

The Foleo OS is, for the most part, ready, however, it is incompatible with just about everything else Palm has done. It can't run existing Palm OS applications. The windowing system needs to be rewritten, and I'm sure a bunch more technical stuff that I don't fully understand because I'm not a developer.

I suspect that the good things from the Foleo's OS will be migrated into Palm OS II.

Alan G

[rcartwr]

I was too afraid I'd say something that I didn't mean. I wouldn't want to go burning any bridges. It is better that I chose to wait. Maybe I'll get Jeff to come on the show and rant a bit. You know, get Jeff to do my dirty work. LOL (Apologies to Jeff.)

Alan G

I am sure Jeff would think it no more than a public service Alan. :) Palm does not have another 18 months. I understand that they are fearful of the "Osbourne effect" but that is an apples and oranges comparison. The cell phone cycle is about 2 years. Its not like they have a ton of TXs and Z22s floating about. They do have a ton of pent up demand for a new PDA product. A refreshed TX2 running POSII would be just the ticket. I really have a hard time believing that Palm OSII is not a lot closer to gold code than this. For better or worse, I am pretty much stuck with the ATT Deathstar, I need some real 3g speed and EDGE is not it. Palm has to get to market with something good sooner than 2009. A lot sooner.

[intellidryad]

... They know people want it, but are struggling with what improvements really make sense. Would you buy a TX|2 if the only improvement is the overall amount of on-board memory? Is that worth $300? ...

What they could do now is come out with a new form factor, like what Sony did with the NR70 as the OS4 model leading into the OS5 era. Yet from what I know about Palm, unlike Sony, they are strong in software and weak in hardware, so I'm not sure they could pull that off. Or, they could repackage the TX into a much better looking case, like what they did with the Palm III -> Palm V upgrade.

On the other hand, I have a feeling that the dudes from Handspring somehow doesn't like non-Treo devices. They killed off the Visor line back then once the Treo line came. And now they are ignoring the T/Z line once again, only not as drastic as what they did with Visors.

And yes, their top priority now would be to finish the new OS. With new cash from that new investment agreement, they should have brought in more talent and speed up development. Yet what I feared that happened, is this: They got Jon Rubinstein in the door, he looks at a alpha version of POS II, which clashes with his vision of software, and said "screw this piece of crap". And Mr. Rubinstein starts a whole new development process from scratch, thus the new 18 months requirement. This is only my worst fears, speculation with few supporting points. And I really hope this is not the case.

[I love my mom]

I think that Palm is of two minds on refreshing the TX. They know people want it, but are struggling with what improvements really make sense. Would you buy a TX|2 if the only improvement is the overall amount of on-board memory? Is that worth $300? I'm not so sure. Plus, if Palm OS II is really as late as it sounds, would a new PDA distract Palm from Palm OS II?

I just don't know.



Thank you.

Alan G


Hmm. I meant what about PDAs running POS II. I don't know if they're just stressing that there won't be any smartphones running it until 09 because that's their major market, or if they're saying there won't be any new OS until 09. It's possible their having trouble with the phone side of the system, that's why it's being delayed.

But once again, I'm just an amateur :rolleyes:

[HBL]

Would you buy a TX|2 if the only improvement is the overall amount of on-board memory? Is that worth $300? I'm not so sure. Plus, if Palm OS II is really as late as it sounds, would a new PDA distract Palm from Palm OS II?

I just don't know.





Alan G

A $300 TX is not going to fly when you can get a Centro at full retail for 399. Still, Palm has to do something.
They just can't let the market stagnate for 18 months while they work out problems with POS II.

...and yes please bring Jeff back for a visit. I haven't heard him pontificate and rant in a long time. I think it would make us all feel better. Tell him an old T3 cultists says hello :D

[bulls96]

Alan, i know you are a nice guy but i think its time for you to go into an "Engadget-like" rant... and make it public... you have earned the right to rant about them... i'm sure they will listen and maybe make them push harder if their staunchest supporter starts to go bad on them...

18 months is tooo late for Palm... it may not be for me though because i am hooked to my 755p's contract for 2 years :) right about the time to upgrade when it appears so i have no problem with that.

Basically i think Palm OS sufferd from a lack of Wifi... i would have lived with that if they pushed thru with the Foleo... was looking forward to that...

[Alan G]

Alan, i know you are a nice guy but i think its time for you to go into an "Engadget-like" rant... and make it public... you have earned the right to rant about them... i'm sure they will listen and maybe make them push harder if their staunchest supporter starts to go bad on them...

I think that the open letter idea is now over played. Yes, Engadget when out on a limb and got Palm's attention. The there was that poor soul who ranted about how Palm should open source the Palm OS...even though Palm doesn't own the rights to the Palm OS. (Not to mention the intellectual property rights that can't be disclosed.)

So yes, I could go off ranting about how Palm is totally out of touch with their power-user customer base and *another* 18 months is too long to bring out an OS that will allow Palm to compete with device that already have those features and are on the market today. But if there are some things that I've learned about Palm, they are:

1. A full frontal attack won't gain you anything from management.
2. I don't have that much pull with them. (sure I know some folks, but I don't get to talk to Ed)
3. We would be much better served if we worked with Palm behind the scenes to get things done.

So I'll have an editorial this week along those lines. Hopefully, Palm will be listening to what I have to say.

Alan G

[intellidryad]

So I'll have an editorial this week along those lines. Hopefully, Palm will be listening to what I have to say.


Go for it!

Or Palm will be crushed by Apple (a statement that I don't even believe a week ago).

1src is already now filled with Palm -> iPod touch/iPhone converts.

[Alan G]

I don't know, I still don't see the iPhone as a competitor to a Treo smartphone (Palm OS or Windows Mobile). That said, at this point, the only thing missing is the software. Right now the iPhone/iTouch is/are entertainment devices. If I want to get some work done, I'll stick with Windows Mobile or Palm OS solutions.

Alan G

[HBL]

^^
Yes, for now your right Alan. But, when Apple starts making 3rd party apps available for the touch and iphone it may be a whole new ball game.

If developers like Dataviz, Astraware, and Chapura start making software for the iphone, the lure to move to Apple may be to hard (at least for me) to resist.

[PatrickS]

They wouldn't have to do much to the TX2 to get a winner on their hands -- more memory, a microphone with a working conduit for voice memos, and a lower price. If they put a little more effort into making the voice recording more convenient, they'd compete with the dedicated recorders and fly off the shelves.

[LupeValenz]

Dataviz has already expressed intrest in making Docstogo for the iPhone when the SDK comes out. Palm needs to hurry before other developers follow suit. I for one would love to have Docstogo on the iPhone/touch.

[LupeValenz]

Go for it!

Or Palm will be crushed by Apple (a statement that I don't even believe a week ago).

1src is already now filled with Palm -> iPod touch/iPhone converts.

That is so true, 1Src needs a new sister site, iSrc :)