background app...too many?

[Palmisok]

I was just wondering how many type of background or hacks could you be running on a TX before it gets all buggy and you start getting freezes, errors, resets, etc. I'm running things like Appshelf, Launchanywhere, Uncache, UDMH, SkinUI, KeyQuick, and I'm guessing I'm overloading the TX with these sort of apps. I'm starting to get more and more resets and freezes so my guess is that I have to get rid of some of them. Is there a limit that anyone has ever reached?

[vovka1965]

I was just wondering how many type of background or hacks could you be running on a TX before it gets all buggy and you start getting freezes, errors, resets, etc. I'm running things like Appshelf, Launchanywhere, Uncache, UDMH, SkinUI, KeyQuick, and I'm guessing I'm overloading the TX with these sort of apps. I'm starting to get more and more resets and freezes so my guess is that I have to get rid of some of them. Is there a limit that anyone has ever reached?
Well, I don't think all of these are background. Uncache, for instance, just works at startup and does not do much afterwards..

[BrentDC]

I don't think there is a limit, off the top-of-my-head, I can think of these apps I'm running in the background:

PalmRevolt
myKbd
OnTop
TXInternalDrive
PowerDiGi
IconPlus
AppIcon
ShowBattery
EventLauncher
BatteryGraph
FontSmoother
Resco Locker
Uninstall Manager
AutoWifi

.....and my TX is rock-solid stable :)

[PinCushionQueen]

I don't necessarily think it's too many apps in the background either. It sounds more like one of your apps isn't playing well with the others. Or perhaps one of your preference files are corrupted for an app. I would first do a warm reset and use your pda like that for a bit and see if you still get the resets. If you don't then you know that one of the background apps is to blame. If not, well then it's something else.
Anyways, if you find that a background app is the problem then just disable the apps from unCache list (remove them from the list) and add them one by one until you start getting the resets again. Or I've heard of people disabling half of the apps and testing the half that's left, then testing half of the remainder - you get the idea (I hope?)

[Palmisok]

what about them affecting speed? I noticed that Documents To Go searches for files just a bit slower than before.

[PinCushionQueen]

what about them affecting speed? I noticed that Documents To Go searches for files just a bit slower than before.

Now speed is a different story... I can and do see some effect in speed of opening apps depending on how many and which apps I have active, but this would be highly variable. I don't know what version of D2G you are using, but in v9.0 you can switch views so D2G no longer searches everywhere for your files. I can see D2G takin a long time to search for files even if you've got a lot of apps installed not just background apps. WarpSpeed can improve your speed some (not for D2G though), that's how I improve speed performance. The downside, is less battery life. Of course, YMMV...

My comments before were more regarding stability.

[BrentDC]

If your talking about when you launch DTG, and it does that file search, it takes forever because it seaches your entire expansion card!!! The more that is on the card, the longer it takes. Now, as for speed performance when you have a ton of stuff on your Palm, yes, everything gets slower, but that isn't a "Backgroud App" problem, that's a "Not Enough DbCache Problem". Although I've heard UnCache can help this also....

[PinCushionQueen]

Although I've heard UnCache can help this also.... Yes, unCache can help providing you don't have a ton of apps on the list... Only ones that actually need to be there. Also, unCache effects can also be negated if you have a lot of apps locked w/ Resco Locker.

[BrentDC]

I don't use UnCache, and have a ton of stuff locked with Resco Locker, so yea my palm is slow :D I really never liked the UnCache idea because of all the problems it causes, I don't think Palm software was designed to not get the reset notification, and anyways, if I swant to enjoy a fast palm (for a second anyway), I can just do a Warm-Reset :rolleyes:

[Church Punk]

Talking about UnCache and speed, I dont think that this app makes your machine faster. Ive been running my TX with uncache disabled for a while and i havent noticed any speed lag or problems at all. The only thing is that you dont have much free memory after a reset (wich is not good if you want to play LJP :D ), but if i just need my palm to work, uncache is not indispensable at all. The TX is VERY stable if you dont install any apps, and in fact many ppl dont even need more... but i do :rolleyes:

[I love my mom]

Just FYI, UNCache and all of Dmitrys apps are hacks. Just like you would install them with YAHM, but they have their own 'YAHM' built in, so to speak.

That being said, you can have as many hacks as you like installed without your machine slowing down. This is because hacks actually replace the system code, so initiating them is seamless. For all you newcomers :D

I can't use UNCache on my TX, it makes it to unstable. I discovered this after purchasing it, of course :rolleyes: When I enable it and reset I go into one of those eternal reset loops until I warm reset and disable UNCache.

[PinCushionQueen]

Just FYI, UNCache and all of Dmitrys apps are hacks. Just like you would install them with YAHM, but they have their own 'YAHM' built in, so to speak.

That being said, you can have as many hacks as you like installed without your machine slowing down. This is because hacks actually replace the system code, so initiating them is seamless. For all you newcomers :D

Thanks for the information... I'm not a newbie, but I never knew this :) Learn something new everyday :D

I can't use UNCache on my TX, it makes it to unstable. I discovered this after purchasing it, of course :rolleyes: When I enable it and reset I go into one of those eternal reset loops until I warm reset and disable UNCache.

Sounds like you've put something on your list that shouldn't be there.
:)

[Church Punk]

no, because if it is disabled, then EVERY APP recieves the notification of a reset... kinda strange your situation...

[BrentDC]

As I said, Palm OS apps are not designed to not get the reset nitification..... If you want more DbCache after a reset, just flush it :)

[PinCushionQueen]

no, because if it is disabled, then EVERY APP recieves the notification of a reset... kinda strange your situation...

Oh yeah... Duh! Sorry :o Well then, I love my mom, forget the second part of the previous post. You must need to have an app on the list that isn't there (the exact opposite of my previous post)

[Anson Chew]

Why not use Reset Doctor to analysis the crashes, it even clear your dbcache automatically

[PinCushionQueen]

Why not use Reset Doctor to analysis the crashes, it even clear your dbcache automatically

IMHO one shouldn't use Reset Doctor to manage the DBcache, the way it flushes and when it flushes open the door to some potentially ugly problems. I'll stick w/ OffFlush v2.0 for my flushing. I've not tried it to analyze crashes with Reset Doctor though. I'll have to look into that.

[vovka1965]

IMHO one shouldn't use Reset Doctor to manage the DBcache, the way it flushes and when it flushes open the door to some potentially ugly problems. I'll stick w/ OffFlush v2.0 for my flushing. I've not tried it to analyze crashes with Reset Doctor though. I'll have to look into that.
ResetDoctor has a lot of problems.
--I don't like the option when it automatically restores your preferences. That could lead to a mess.
---I don't like it's cache management for reasons above
-- I don't like it's cache logging -- it sent my TX into an endless reset loop
---Crash analysis -- that I don't like either. It misses a lot of resets. "Crash" is better for crash analysis.

But here is my question for OffFlush 2.0 -- it seems to ONLY flush on power off, whether you have that option enabled or not... I cannot get it to flush upon exiting apps.

I also tried Flush It which is supposed to be more versatile, but it reallly sloooowed my palm for application switching...

Ces't la vie!

[Palmisok]

I don't think I've ever heard of OffFlush flushing on anything but power off.

[I love my mom]

Oh yeah... Duh! Sorry :o Well then, I love my mom, forget the second part of the previous post. You must need to have an app on the list that isn't there (the exact opposite of my previous post)

Hmm interesting thought. Any ideas on what such an app could be?

[PinCushionQueen]

Hmm interesting thought. Any ideas on what such an app could be?

The following is copied from a post I did a while back when we were discussing unCache. Hope it helps :D

My general rule for deciding what goes on the unCache list is as follows:

1) anything that triggers an alarm/notification. That's not just actual alarms for a timed event but also things that I've scheduled to run automatically at a certain time ie: Backup programs or resets that I've scheduled to occur in the middle of the night.

2) Background running apps like apps for skinning (like SkinUI or myKbd); button launch alternatives (like Qlaunch or ButtonsEX)

3)Plus a few things that just need to be there because they don't work otherwise - for me these are Off Flush and Keyboard (UWK), and WarpSpeed and UniCmd also snapCalc.

4) When in doubt do a trial run. Take things off the list one by one. If things still work just fine and you don't loose any preferences or settings then it doesn't need to be on the list. If however, you find that the program is acting flaky or not saving settings etc... Try adding it to the list and see if that fixes it. If the program is still acting weird - then it's might just be an incompatible app with NVFS.

5)** Remember ** Things that are on the UnCache list get the initial notification after reset. Nothing else (except for RAM) apps will get this notification.

Then CyberDude also had a great suggestion in that same thread:

"UnCache:
The basic way to find out what needs to be in the UnCache List is by using either the notifications report in resco explorer (open explorer tap control panel, tap notifications) or use the notifications report from palm internals. Anything that appears in either list is asking for notifications. Use PCQ's guidelines to go through this list. There is a bit of a learning curve in that some things need to bbe in the list but do not appear in the notifications report, as PCQ mentioned. For example one person suggested that DXTGAttachmentPlugin needed to be included in order for D2G to be able open attachments in versamail. Most attachments I open are pdfs which I use PalmPDF for, so I haven't run in to a problem here."

[cyberdude]

I agree with everything PCQ said. On another note I have both Reset Doctor and Crash Pro. When it comes to logging resets, reset doctor gives virtually no information about the reset while Crash Pro gives a lot of info. So CP is way better. Also note that managing the dbcache with RD is playing with fire. Like vovka1965 said it could lead to a mess, but it could also brick your device! The way it decides when to flush seems to be when it detects a lauch code. If you use accesorizer to make DAs when you launch the DA it sends a launch code. So if you are in the middle of an app and launch a DA made with accessorizer there is a good chance the reset doctor will flush your cahce and flushing cache while in an app is not recommended.

[I love my mom]

Wouldn't ya know it, I turned on UNCache an reset with no problems at all. AND UNCache worked properly :rolleyes: Computers these days...

Don't worry it'll break again in a few days ;)

[juggernaut#2]

I don't think Palm software was designed to not get the reset notification, and anyways, if I swant to enjoy a fast palm (for a second anyway), I can just do a Warm-Reset :rolleyes:
It´s the other way around. It´s not that palm software is designed to get reset notifications; it´s that the OS just sends reset notifications and it´s up to every app to act accordingly - from "do-something" to "shrug-so-what", the app itself decides if it "needs" a reset notification. You can see actually see that whenever turning on FixBoot. So the OS sort of "broadcasts", and as in networking, broadcasts cause a lot of traffic. On palm´s it´s that every app is started.

What uncache does is turning this broadcast into a targeted info, pointed to just those apps that need the reset info (i.e. to place an alarm or hook their background processing code). The only time it does this is after a warm reset.

It´s true that the user has to decide which apps (*) are elegible for that info, but it in fact speeds up boot process and - this is the main advantage to just a warm reset - keeps dbcache from getting defragmented. So you´re right: One does need a warm reset, with uncache or without it.

But with uncache a warm reset is faster and cleaner. In numbers: my dbcache used to be 11MB/2.4MB (free/biggest chunk), now it´s 11MB/7.5MB. I can feel the difference, i.e. when starting blazer. Ever seen blazer start up instantly on a TX right after boot?


(*) = it´s only apps, uncache does not deal with panels.


@PCQ: the online help for uncache states that it´s fine to have apps on the list that aren´t on the device. In fact, the pre-configured list is unlikely to be present on any palm :)

[cyberdude]

@PCQ: the online help for uncache states that it´s fine to have apps on the list that aren´t on the device. In fact, the pre-configured list is unlikely to be present on any palm :)
Except maybe Dmitry's :rolleyes:

[BrentDC]

@juggernaut#2

I understand what UnCache does, it can speed up boot times, it can keep the free Cache space larger, less fragmented, ect. ect. The problem is that it is almost impossible to know everything that has to be in the list. Example 1) With UnCache enabled, tapping links in VersaMail do not launch your default web browser. Now you the user has to find which file is responsible for this action, and put it in the list. There are a ton of things like this, and is very hard to know what needs to be in the list. So for me anyways, the benefits of UnCache are not worth the problems (and I'd really like to download with Blazer :o ).