1SRC Podcast 144

[Alan G]

This week we talk about the new Windows Mobile update for the Treo 750v, should Palm market the Foleo as a stand alone product, and this week's 1SRC Editorial. [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=1989)]

[danielmaradona]

Thanks Alan for the nice podcast. I've heard most of the wonderful stuff concerning the Foleo but what can you say about the problem with its ability to play videos from youtube and other sites that uses the flash video plugin.

Palm should solved that first before releasing the foleo. Yes the foleo is design for corporate and business use but with a high price tag ($500-$600) we are expecting something better from it.

Another thing it seems that the foleo is one of the main driving force why Palm is now moving at the direction of direction of linux. With Windrivers providing them the core solution Palm are yet in danger of experiencing the same problem that had plagued them several years ago when they were still dealing with ACCESS and the apparent failure of PALM OS 6 Cobalt.

I believe that Palm had already learned its lesson from the past, but this time they should be very careful as other competitive giants like HTC and HP are gearing up the release of new devices that revolutionize the mobile handheld industry.

I will take a shift anytime of the day even with a high price tag rather than take a Foleo (very limited) bundled with a "Centro."

[Alan G]

Hello Daniel and thanks for listening.

Thanks Alan for the nice podcast. I've heard most of the wonderful stuff concerning the Foleo but what can you say about the problem with its ability to play videos from youtube and other sites that uses the flash video plugin.

I can't really say more that what has already been said. The Foleo can playback video. The problem is with all the hoops you have to jump through to get video to playback in the Flash player in the browser. If you haven't already done so, check out Ben Combee's comments here (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1336613&postcount=4) on the subject.


Palm should solved that first before releasing the foleo. Yes the foleo is design for corporate and business use but with a high price tag ($500-$600) we are expecting something better from it.

The corporate suits around the office I work won't be interested in YouTube videos. If the execs at my company are typical of execs at other small to medium size companies I can't fault Palm for not putting Flash video support at the top of the list. I'm more concerned that Palm works out the Bluetooth synchronization issue (http://comments.deasil.com/2007/08/23/poor-palm/#comments) before the Foleo ships.

Another thing it seems that the foleo is one of the main driving force why Palm is now moving at the direction of direction of linux. With Windrivers providing them the core solution Palm are yet in danger of experiencing the same problem that had plagued them several years ago when they were still dealing with ACCESS and the apparent failure of PALM OS 6 Cobalt.

I wonder why people aren't worried that Microsoft will cut and run on Palm also? They provide Palm with Windows Mobile for the Treo.

Anyway, Palm has likely been playing around with Linux for at least two years now. We won't know until several products come to pass whether or not Palm is building their own Linux OS or enhancing Wind River's flavor of Linux similar to what Palm does to Microsoft's Windows Mobile operating system. Don't look at Palm's licensing of multiple OSes in absolute terms. Palm is more of a ODM company now where they mix and match parts to build a better solution than all the parts. I'm sure Palm will do their best to avoid another ACCESS problem. By the way, the ACCESS problem was that they were unable to deliver product against contractual obligations. Opps.

other competitive giants like HTC and HP are gearing up the release of new devices that revolutionize the mobile handheld industry.

Surely you aren't talking about HP's new iPAQs that are suppose to be out later this year. I see them as trying to get every last dollar out of the PDA business. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm only half-heartedly following the news on new iPAQs for right now.

Alan G

[danielmaradona]

Alan thanks for answering some of my comments and providing some helpful insights.


I wonder why people aren't worried that Microsoft will cut and run on Palm also? They provide Palm with Windows Mobile for the Treo.

Anyway, Palm has likely been playing around with Linux for at least two years now. We won't know until several products come to pass whether or not Palm is building their own Linux OS or enhancing Wind River's flavor of Linux similar to what Palm does to Microsoft's Windows Mobile operating system. Don't look at Palm's licensing of multiple OSes in absolute terms. Palm is more of a ODM company now where they mix and match parts to build a better solution than all the parts. I'm sure Palm will do their best to avoid another ACCESS problem. By the way, the ACCESS problem was that they were unable to deliver product against contractual obligations. Opps.

Actually in compare with my Microsoft Wind River are untested in terms of providing Operating System to Smartphone unlike MS which has a long hisotry dated back to the early days of rivalry with Palm OS. Palm should overhaul the Palm OS operating system that we all loved. It seems Palm is changing its direction towards Palm OS...


The corporate suits around the office I work won't be interested in YouTube videos. If the execs at my company are typical of execs at other small to medium size companies I can't fault Palm for not putting Flash video support at the top of the list. I'm more concerned that Palm works out the Bluetooth synchronization issue before the Foleo ships.


Alan Palm as one of the innovator of the computing industry we expect a much better device from them rather than introducing limited device like the Foleo. Yes it is not intended to be a multimedia device... but the trend of multimedia today is heading towards the direction of ubiquitous source like the net and good example of this is youtube that uses the flash video engine.

I'm not saying that youtube is only the reason why Palm should fixed this things before they launched the Foleo.. They need it because flash video today is also used in providing presentation to clients and other means of utilizing it for business use and Foleo should have the capability to do those things.

By the way I'm still sticking with PALM OS for now it still works.... Especially with HanDbase and Filemaker Por 9 Advance Synchronization... As I can say based on these experience Palm OS is still long way to go before it goes dead. It is good thing for Palm because even though it is already late Palm has still the time to produce a long overdue update for the Palm OS.

[danielmaradona]

Alan thanks for answering some of my comments and providing some helpful insights.


I wonder why people aren't worried that Microsoft will cut and run on Palm also? They provide Palm with Windows Mobile for the Treo.

Anyway, Palm has likely been playing around with Linux for at least two years now. We won't know until several products come to pass whether or not Palm is building their own Linux OS or enhancing Wind River's flavor of Linux similar to what Palm does to Microsoft's Windows Mobile operating system. Don't look at Palm's licensing of multiple OSes in absolute terms. Palm is more of a ODM company now where they mix and match parts to build a better solution than all the parts. I'm sure Palm will do their best to avoid another ACCESS problem. By the way, the ACCESS problem was that they were unable to deliver product against contractual obligations. Opps.

Actually in compare with my Microsoft Wind River are untested in terms of providing Operating System to Smartphone unlike MS which has a long hisotry dated back to the early days of rivalry with Palm OS. Palm should overhaul the Palm OS operating system that we all loved. It seems Palm is changing its direction towards Palm OS...


The corporate suits around the office I work won't be interested in YouTube videos. If the execs at my company are typical of execs at other small to medium size companies I can't fault Palm for not putting Flash video support at the top of the list. I'm more concerned that Palm works out the Bluetooth synchronization issue before the Foleo ships.


Alan Palm as one of the innovator of the computing industry we expect a much better device from them rather than introducing limited device like the Foleo. Yes it is not intended to be a multimedia device... but the trend of multimedia today is heading towards the direction of ubiquitous source like the net and good example of this is youtube that uses the flash video engine.

I'm not saying that youtube is only the reason why Palm should fixed this things before they launched the Foleo.. They need it because flash video today is also used in providing presentation to clients and other means of utilizing it for business use and Foleo should have the capability to do those things.

By the way I'm still sticking with PALM OS for now it still works.... Especially with HanDbase and Filemaker Pro 9 Advance Synchronization... As I can say based on these experience Palm OS is still long way to go before it goes dead. It is good thing for Palm because even though it is already late Palm has still the time to produce a long overdue update for the Palm OS.

[Jeff Kirvin]

I'm not allowed to say anything about the new iPAQs yet, but they're really [POST REDACTED BY MICROSOFT]

[Garnet OS]

Ok Alan and Jeff. I'm getting my iTunes ready and I'm listening to your podcasts.
I have an extra Diet Coke in hand and I can't wait to listen to the meat of the show: The 1src editorial - Linux interoperatibiliy and the Foleo as a standalone product.

Thank you guys.

[Alan G]

Actually in compare with my Microsoft Wind River are untested in terms of providing Operating System to Smartphone unlike MS which has a long hisotry dated back to the early days of rivalry with Palm OS. Palm should overhaul the Palm OS operating system that we all loved. It seems Palm is changing its direction towards Palm OS...

Wind River has been building real-time operating systems since the early 1980's, 1981 specifically. You can get a good thumbnail view of what they do here (http://www.windriver.com/company/corporateprofile_US.pdf). If Palm wants to advance the position they will need to rewrite the Palm OS. The current version is in need of an overhaul if they are to pull off things like having an active data connection while there is a phone call in progress.

Palm as one of the innovator of the computing industry we expect a much better device from them rather than introducing limited device like the Foleo. Yes it is not intended to be a multimedia device... but the trend of multimedia today is heading towards the direction of ubiquitous source like the net and good example of this is youtube that uses the flash video engine.

Palm is not a multimedia device company and as such, doesn't built multimedia devices. Yes, there devices have some multimedia features, such as .mp3 and video playback, but that is not part of their core business. Companies like Apple have embraced multimedia with devices like the Apple TV, iPod, and iPhone. Palm doesn't do that sort of stuff.

I'm not saying that youtube is only the reason why Palm should fixed this things before they launched the Foleo.. They need it because flash video today is also used in providing presentation to clients and other means of utilizing it for business use and Foleo should have the capability to do those things.


Flash support will eventually make it into the Foleo, but senior executives don't use Flash in their presentations.

By the way I'm still sticking with PALM OS for now it still works.... Especially with HanDbase and Filemaker Pro 9 Advance Synchronization...

I have a copy of HanDBase, but I don't use it. I was just in a meeting with some folks from FileMaker, Inc this past Tuesday. FileMaker 9 is a very cool platform.

Alan G

[danielmaradona]

Thank you Alan for providing me some wonderful information. Wind River is untested compare to Microsoft and even ACCESS in providing operating system solution for the Mobile Devices. Have you ever seen some of the Screen shot of ALP. It is what I want to see happens to PALM OS.

The problem with the current Palm OS is the interface is a little bit old and need some major change in terms of the quality of graphics and to add some animation in it. As a hardcore Palm OS user I'm very contented in a way Palm OS operates. The standard control and interface over different application is something that makes me fall in love with the operating system.

With the adoption of linux at its core, some of the enhancement can now be readily implemented like the ability to multi-task, and support advance wireless connection and the ability to make phone calls and at the same time
browse the web.

The mobile landscape is on the revolution with the arrival of new category of devices like the HTC shift will soon change the way people use their devices. A long time ago before the arrival of the PALM PDA people no one had predicted the arrival of the Smartphone. So a long with the services that will be used in this devices.

Palm should able to support the future not only the current needs of the corporate world. They need to do it to remain competitive. HTC has opened its doors to possibilities with regards to the integrating cellular phone capability to UMPC devices.

[danielmaradona]

Alan can you share some thoughts on what you had seen on Filemaker Pro 9 Advance... I believe that this great app can augment the capabilties of handheld devices and its market will have a significant potential to grow even more.

Currently there are only two relational dbase software for Palm filemaker pro mobile and HanDbase. With the arrival of the Palm OS linux I can see the market will grow due the portability of sharing the same set of development kits in developing apps for the Palm OS.

[johnj2803]

@ daniel :D its nice to know that you are also an avid listener of allan :D

@ allan i value all your palm news and editorials. its nice to know that there are palm guys like you who still find a way to talk about anything palm! keep it up! :D my brother is really a foleo fanatic like you and i think he gets all excited when foleo news come up.

the interoperability of the foleo and the treo is really a good idea, if this were the case then i think both the treo and the foleo would have to have the same OS. Well i know both of them will be running linux soon, but i think the linux for the treo and the foleo will be a it different.

for example, the windows mobile and the window PC OS have the same "name" (just for simplicity's sake) but i don't think that you can install cab files into windows or exe files in WM. (I am not really sure of this since i am a palm fan boy too). If the interoperability would really push thru then it would really be some kind of innovation again for palm. but then again it could just be wishful thinking :D

There are a lot of palm fanatics in the Philippines (mapalad.org), and like me we look forward in your news :D

OT: any particular reason for choosing diet coke? :D

[danielmaradona]

Hey johnj2803 before I became member of Mapalad.org I'd been here at 1src.com, it was Cliesource way back several years ago.

Going back the topic, Palm OS linux is somewhat different from the structure of Windows for Desktop and Windows Mobile. The set of application for both platform is different and the development kit is quite not the same.

Form the perspective of several tech analyst, they are emphasizing some form of revolution with the Foleo and the upcoming Treo devices. The new devices will have the ability to share and run the same application which is key to tight integration and interoperability. Although it is too early to say, we can see that Palm is starting to innovate on the software side of things. Yes we can say that the upcoming device is not groundbreaking in terms of hardware specs, but it is not always the key to get it done. A good example of this is the Nintendo Wii. Compare it to Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 you can say that it is inferior because it has an inferior hardware but it is not the case. Any shortcomings in hardware can be remedied by providing excellent software and group of applications that can change the user interact with the device.

The tight integration that Palm is working on the Foleo is something new to this level of computing. That's why they are saying that this is a Paradigm shift. Maybe Palm is just only showing us only the tip of the Ice Berg.

[Alan G]

Alan can you share some thoughts on what you had seen on Filemaker Pro 9 Advance... I believe that this great app can augment the capabilties of handheld devices and its market will have a significant potential to grow even more.

FileMaker has half-heartedly pursued the mobile database market. The only real change since version 1.0 was that you can now sync the data to a FileMaker Server. I'm not a big fan of FMM. It needs to be enhanced; specifically, the ability to store data out on a SD card.

As for the rest of the FileMaker 9 suite, FileMaker Pro and Pro Advanced are good tools, but they (FileMaker, Inc) has lost sight of their original customer base- the non-IT user. During our meeting, we (my company) suggested that they look at that core market again. Perhaps it is time for FileMaker to bring back the non "Pro" version of FileMaker. The FileMaker Server 9 Advanced's PHP site wizard is really cool. I ranked out a web accessable database of PDAs that I have in literally about 10 minutes. That is very cool and I don't know any PHP!

Currently there are only two relational dbase software for Palm filemaker pro mobile and HanDbase.

Don't forget DataViz SmartList to Go (http://www.dataviz.com/products/smartlisttogo/index.html).

Alan G

[Alan G]

@ allan i value all your palm news and editorials. its nice to know that there are palm guys like you who still find a way to talk about anything palm! keep it up! my brother is really a foleo fanatic like you and i think he gets all excited when foleo news come up.

Hi John. I'm glad to hear that you and your brother like the show. The month of August has been really slow going with the news so I'm glad to hear that people are still listening.

the interoperability of the foleo and the treo is really a good idea, if this were the case then i think both the treo and the foleo would have to have the same OS. Well i know both of them will be running linux soon, but i think the linux for the treo and the foleo will be a it different.

The problem with smartphone and Foleo interoperability is the Bluetooth stack and the carriers reluctance to allow Palm and others to do anything that could threaten their revenue follow. If the Bluetooth stack was fully functional, not crippled like they are today, we'd already be able to things like Bluetooth file transfers. I suspect that the Bluetooth stacks on the Treo need to be upgraded and the carriers are requiring that Palm go through a 4-6 month recertification process before the upgrades can be put in place. (OK, I'm off topic now.)

but i don't think that you can install cab files into windows or exe files in WM. (I am not really sure of this since i am a palm fan boy too). If the interoperability would really push thru then it would really be some kind of innovation again for palm. but then again it could just be wishful thinking

You are correct, the Windows desktop OS isn't even close to the mobile OS of the same name. You are also correct in stating that the .cab and .exe files can't be crossed installed. The interesting thing about using Wind River's OS in both the Foleo and future smartphones is that the Linux core would be the same, unlike Windows and Windows Mobile. That would only leave the APIs that would need to be ironed out.

But I will admit this is wild speculation and day dreaming on my part.

There are a lot of palm fanatics in the Philippines (mapalad.org), and like me we look forward in your news

I know. We here at 1SRC are glad to have you guys along for the ride.

OT: any particular reason for choosing diet coke?

Oh, that one is easy. I don't like Tab or Diet Pepsi! LOL

Alan G

[danielmaradona]

Alan sorry for not including smartlist... hehehehe.
By the way if you know someone who wants to outsource some filemaker pro projects you can contact me.

Thanks

[danielmaradona]

Alan, with the apparent release of Palm "Centro" this coming week September 12, what do you think will happen to the Treo 680... Do you think Palm will gonna phased this unit. What do you think will be the lifeline for the Treo 680, on how long it will be staying in the market.

Thanks

[Alan G]

Alan sorry for not including smartlist.

No apologizes required.

By the way if you know someone who wants to outsource some filemaker pro projects you can contact me.

I don't, I'm sorry.

Alan G

[Alan G]

with the apparent release of Palm "Centro" this coming week September 12, what do you think will happen to the Treo 680...

I don't think that anything will happen to the Treo 680 with the release of the Centro in Europe on September 12th. (Details (http://www.foleofanatics.com/2007/09/new-palm-smartphone-hit-europe-on-sept.html)) I'm guessing the Sprint version will be out a month later around the middle of October here in the US.

The Treo 680 and the Centro are targeting different markets and I think that there will be little overlap. I have no idea when the Treo 680 will reach the end of life.

Alan G

[g-funkster]

With Europe still cold on Palm OS, I'm thinking their 'Centro' will be the Windows Mobile one we've seen with the Vodafone logo. I wonder if it will even be called Centro...

I also wonder if ATT will carry that one over here.

[enderenya]

Alan, what's up with not being able to comment on your new editorial? It says I don't have permission?

I think all the applications you mentioned were well mentioned except one. How many people actually use Expense? IMO, it's the most useless app included by Palm from the beginning. A general database program is far better.

[Alan G]

Alan, what's up with not being able to comment on your new editorial? It says I don't have permission?

Sorry. My bad. I didn't move the comments thread out of the staging area into the public area. It's all set now.

Alan G

[Alan G]

enderenya-

I'll post my reply to your Expense question over in the editorial thread.

Alan G

[danielmaradona]

I don't think that anything will happen to the Treo 680 with the release of the Centro in Europe on September 12th. (Details (http://www.foleofanatics.com/2007/09/new-palm-smartphone-hit-europe-on-sept.html)) I'm guessing the Sprint version will be out a month later around the middle of October here in the US.

The Treo 680 and the Centro are targeting different markets and I think that there will be little overlap. I have no idea when the Treo 680 will reach the end of life.

Alan G

Thanks for providing me the link to your new blog. So both the Centro and the Treo 680 will be there in the market at same time, targeting different set of consumers. The Centro is being aimed at non-business users and the 680 is still for business users who needs a GSM Palm OS device.

As for the operating system, because it is targeted for European customers so definitely it will run Windows Mobile. Same thing when Palm released the 750v, last year.

Will there Be a GSM version of the Centro ?

[danielmaradona]

Another question for you Alan. Do you think the Centro will be Marketed as a different product line aside from the Treos.