Bluetooth Peripherals: BEWARE...

[Unregistered]

A warning to all considering Bluetooth devices to complement their new Clies: Not all Bluetooth devices are supported by other manufacturers.

I've just purchased a Clie TG50, Sony T68i, Jabra BT200 Headset and Belkin BT PC Card. These all work together FLAWLESSLY. Internet setup with the T68i was pathetically simple. It works very well. I've not had a single problem adding devices, until today.

I just brought home my shiny new Microsoft Bluetooth Mouse in hopes of using it with my notebook. Consistent with most MS hardware, the BT mouse can only communicate with the BT transceiver that MS includes with the mouse, meaning I would require TWO BT transceivers on the notebook, as the MS USB dongle doesn't support sync operations with BT PDAs.

Summary: Not all BT devices play nice together. I would lay the blame for this particular incompatibility squarely on the shoulders of MS. Why offer a BT device if it's only supported by proprietary hardware? Pointless, really.

Be sure to double check the return policy on any BT device you purchase. Just because it says Bluetooth doesn't mean it's globally supported.

[nekrataal]

The Microsoft mouse probably doesn't support the Bluetooth 1.1 specifications, either that or its just RF and not bluetooth. The Targus mouse is like that too, but its NOT bluetooth

[tantousha]

If you read the review over at Tomshardware, you find out that the MS bluetooth keyboard doesn't support the computer networking layer of the bluetooth specification. Bluetooth supports several layers, like Printing, Networking, etc. To keep the costs down (each layer costs more to add) MS left out the networking layer in they keyboard/mouse thing. So in short it's Bluetooth, just not REAL bluetooth...typical of Microsoft, (ie. It's java, just not REAL java).

[nekrataal]

wait, its using the BT Serial Profile right? then you should be able to have a serial mouse driver connect to the virtual com port. Does it support the OBEX push profile? can someone provide a list of exactly what profiles it supports?

[tantousha]

Originally posted by nekrataal
wait, its using the BT Serial Profile right? then you should be able to have a serial mouse driver connect to the virtual com port. Does it support the OBEX push profile? can someone provide a list of exactly what profiles it supports?

Okay, now you're getting above me...here is the article for your own viewing pleasure:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/consumer/20030328/index.html

[nekrataal]

Ok, it looks like it supports the Bluetooth Serial profile, but not the LAP or Lan Access Profile. Kinda sucks, but if you have your WIDCOMM Bluetooth Software that came with your dongle then you should be able to use ANY dongle to connect to the keyboard and mouse. In theory. I'll have to pick one up myself and try it out :)

[EvilErnie]

From my experience Nokia has the worst BT compatibility. I could not get my 8910 to work with anything.

[rTenshi]

They shouldn't stamp it with Bluetooth then, WTF is that?

[ash711]

Actually, i've got myself the wireless bt desktop from microsoft. It works perfect on a mac (driverless) and i can bt sync easily my mac and my nz90 (w/o the missing sync btw). I really don't see why it shouldn't work on a pc :confused:
And yes, i only use the microsoft dongle.

[feefd]

wow fisrt i ever hear of anything like this, never had a problem with my t68i, jabber headset, bt ms, or dongle.

is there a bt certifing body, like there is with wifi?

[ToeCutter]

Originally posted by ash711
Actually, i've got myself the wireless bt desktop from microsoft. It works perfect on a mac (driverless) and i can bt sync easily my mac and my nz90 (w/o the missing sync btw). I really don't see why it shouldn't work on a pc :confused:
And yes, i only use the microsoft dongle.

Actually, that's the primary issue, I don't want to use the MS dongle, I already have a BT PC Card.

After some more research, I found a support article buried deep within the MS support site. It clearly states that the MS dongle does not support PAN (personal area network, I assume). It may support a BT serial connection, but there's no way to access the settings to add other serial devices.

[d4rthsid]

Okay one quicknote to all of you out there. Same thing that tantousha said
" To keep the costs down (each layer costs more to add) MS left out the networking layer in they keyboard/mouse thing. So in short it's Bluetooth, just not REAL bluetooth...typical of Microsoft, (ie. It's java, just not REAL java)."

True Bluetooth hsould be compatible with ALL other BT devices, although not all devices need ALL the profiles, for example: using a bluetooth mouse on a PDA would be unapplicable, however using a BT headset on a PC would be nice, the necessary profile does not exist, yet. Along those same lines the MS BT dongle does not support the serial profile...yet.


A snippet here:

The PC Becomes Bluetooth

Once the set is installed, the computer obviously becomes a Bluetooth communicator. So it can also be used to connect other Bluetooth devices, since this is a general standard. At least in theory. As we have already explained, Bluetooth includes myriad protocols which cannot necessarily be managed by any one device. Our Microsoft receiver can handle some transfer protocols, but not all. For instance, it can't manage the network function, so you can't put a laptop next to it to exchange files. Microsoft maintains that they are working on drivers and that updates will extend compatibility to include this feature in particular. We shall see. Of course, we ran a whole battery of compatibility tests on Bluetooth devices.

and a link to the part about the BT Keyboard: http://www6.tomshardware.com/consumer/20030328/bluetooth-05.html

[BroClie]

ASH711:

Are you connected to your Mac through the Microsoft Bluetooth dongle and hotsyncing successfully with Bluetooth?

I have the same Microsoft M60-0001 Bluetooth mouse (nice unit BTW) on a newer iMac (not newest with onboard built-in Bluetooth however) and it works flawlessly and set up in a snap.

The TG-50 is also detected but won't hot sync; I've attempted with and without MarkSpace.

Any hints appreciated.

Same situation with a new Powerbook G4 also; hotsync fine with USB but no BT.

Thanks....

[yOyOYoo]

Another snipet of info for you guys:

the jabra headset with bluetooth adapter plug in for the phone does not make the phone totally bluetooth compliant either. The adapter for the phone headset jack only allows the phone to communicate with the bluetooth headset via "bluetooth"

its half assed bluetooth if you ask me.

[rTenshi]

That sucks wang, bastardized-bluetooth devices are only bluetooth in the simplest, narrowest definition of the technology. This is misleading and stupid.

[ash711]

BroClie Hi, i don't remember any particular pb while setting up, except the fact that it only worked after 2~3 mins :confused:
Here is quite exactly the step by step i've used http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2002/10/18/isync_bluetooth.html?page=last

Where are you stuck ? Does your bt devices sees each other ?

ToeCutter Ok, but actually i don't understand a thing then :)
If the ms dongle can sync and share my web connection with my clié, it's mostly that it have pan right ? If it have pan, which is a top layer (maybe the highest) then it should be compatible with all your existing devices ?
I would require TWO BT transceivers on the notebook, as the MS USB dongle doesn't support sync operations with BT PDAs
This is where i don't follow you, as this is false

the BT mouse can only communicate with the BT transceiver that MS includes with the mouse
Why ? what kind of issue do you get ?

[ToeCutter]

Originally posted by yOyOYoo
Another snipet of info for you guys:

the jabra headset with bluetooth adapter plug in for the phone does not make the phone totally bluetooth compliant either. The adapter for the phone headset jack only allows the phone to communicate with the bluetooth headset via "bluetooth"

its half assed bluetooth if you ask me.

Um, I'm not sure I understand this one correctly, but you CAN use the Jabra headset for non-bluetooth with a bluetooth phone. It does not, however, make a non-bluetooth phone compatible with other bluetooth devices, like PDAs.

It is a great bluetooth headset, though.

[ToeCutter]

Originally posted by ash711
BroClie Hi, i don't remember any particular pb while setting up, except the fact that it only worked after 2~3 mins :confused:
Here is quite exactly the step by step i've used http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2002/10/18/isync_bluetooth.html?page=last

Where are you stuck ? Does your bt devices sees each other ?

ToeCutter Ok, but actually i don't understand a thing then :)
If the ms dongle can sync and share my web connection with my clié, it's mostly that it have pan right ? If it have pan, which is a top layer (maybe the highest) then it should be compatible with all your existing devices ?

This is where i don't follow you, as this is false


Why ? what kind of issue do you get ?

This has got to be the most misunderstood thread in history.

Here goes:

1. I have a Bluetooth PC Card in my notebook for BT modem and syncing.

2. I bought the MS BT Mouse it hopes of using it with the BT PC Card.

3. According to MS Tech Support, the BT Mouse works only with the USB dongle included with the mouse.

That's the whole story. The MS BT Mouse offers only limited support for BT protocols. I thought that kind of sucked, so I posted the original thread here warning others that the MS kit doesn't support ALL BT transfer protocols.

[BroClie]

Thanks....but

I am using the Microsoft IntelliMouse Bluetooth Explorer mouse (model M60-00001) successfully on an Apple Powerbook G4 (OSX.2.5), an Apple iMac G4 (OSX.2.5) and a Toshiba laptop with XP Pro.

The TG-50 works and syncs with the Microsoft dongle (receiver) that is actually a USB cradle since the receiver can be removed (has a USB end on it) and plugged into either laptop. If the mouse is active (moved slightly to awaken from non use sleep saving batteries) then there is a BT port conflict (both devices using the 1 lane bridge simultaneously). I confirmed this by taking the mouse out of range.

Some pics here: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware//keyboard/wodbt_info.asp

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouse/wiebt_info.asp

BestBuy and CompUSA have these in stock.

I haven't tried another receiver, such as Belkin or D-link; I imagine the protocols are similar.

The mouse works great, only the scroll wheel is a little ratchety (clickity click).

Hopes this makes sense.