Need advices on getting a new PDA (SJ-22, SJ-33, or Zire 71)

[cive1em]

I bought a Visor Deluxe on January 2000. I used it for a year before I dropped it on the ground and broke its screen. I was getting tired of using a Palm OS device at that time. So I decided to join the dark side. I bought an Audiovox Maestro PocketPC on April 2002 for $220. Maestro is a capable PDA with a nice color screen. The problem is it has a short battery life. I was not really happy with it. I sold the Maestro last month. I am looking for another PDA now. This time, I am going back to PalmOS. I would like to get a color device which is small in size, has good battery life, and is inexpensive.

I compared three models at CompUSA: Sony Clie SJ-22, Sony Clie SJ-33, and Palm Zire 71. Here are my thoughts on these devices.

[Sony Clie SJ-22]
Pros: small, lightweight, flip cover, $200
Cons: no MP3, slower CPU, limited software bundle.

[Sony Clie SJ-33]
Pros: MP3, longer battery life, flip cover, faster CPU
Cons: thicker, heavier, $300

[Palm Zire 71]
Pros: small, fastest CPU, camera, better screen
Cons: no jog-dial, no flip cover, $300

At this point, I am seriously thinking about to buy a Sony SJ-22. I have no need for MP3 or camera function. I already have a copy of Documents to Go (version 3, should be able to upgrade for $20). I also have a copy of PocketMirror that came with my broken Visor. However, I still have a few questions on SJ-22.

Question 1. Speed: How fast is SJ-22 or SJ-33 compared to a Visor Deluxe? I have a copy of Liberty which runs simply too slow under Visor. Will Clie SJ-22 run Liberty faster? How about SJ-33? I usually don't play games on my PDA. I just want to know if real-life applications run faster on SJ22/SJ33 than on Visor or not.

Question 2. Ebook reading: I read ebook on my PDA a lot. One thing I didn’t like about Visor is its limited memory expansion options. Ebook reading a 8MB iSilo file on a Visor with an InnoPocket Compact Flash Adapter is just too slow. Does Sony’s MemoryStick provide a better solution? How about Palm Zire71 with a SD card?

Question 3. Battery life: My Maestro has a very short battery life. I used to set its brightness at lower-bright level. It would give me a low battery warning in less than 3 hours. Is Clie SJ22/SJ33’s battery life longer than this?

All suggestions/advices are appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Aces]

Your old Visor Deluxe had a 16Mhz Dragonball processor.  I had one of those too.  I then went to a Visor Pro, with 33Mhz Dragonball processor.  A few moths ago I upgraded again, this time to a Clie SJ33, with a 66Mhz Dragonball processor.

I had found the Pro to be plenty fast enough, unless I was accessing the compactflash card.  I have seen posts here at ClieSource, indicationg the the T615 was fast enough for pretty much anything, EXCEPT accessing databases on the MS.  In the same threads The concensus was that the T665 was fast enough for either.  I notice that the T615 has a 33Mhz Dragonball processor; whereas the T665 has a 66Mhz Dragonball processor.

I notice that the SJ22 has a 33Mhz Dragonball processor; whereas the sj33 has a 66Mhz Dragonball processor.  So a 33Mhz processor may be fast enough, depending on if ebooks on the MS are as dependent on processors speed as acessing databses.  You need some input from someone who reads a lot of ebooks and who has a SJ22.

As for battery life, That was what caused me to get a SJ33.  And I have been very happy with it.  From what i've seen posted, a T665 has adequate life too.  But that's going to vary depending on your usage compared with others who've commented in the "T-series" forum.  My wife has a T615, and has not been happy with her battery life. But her usage may be different than mine.:cool:

[Unregistered]

Wow! Exactly the question I'm asking myself! Go with the cheaper, slower but probably adequate SJ22 or if I'm going to splurge a bit (Canuck buck is considerably lower that the greenback) which of the other two to get.

One item I haven't seen addressed much is the potential battery life and replaceability. I've seen some posts that have said the average life of a Sony battery is about a couple of years. If that's true, and it's not replaceable, I don't think I want to spend about Cdn$675 or more (SJ33 + 128MS) on something that'll die on me in just 2 years! Haven't read anything about Palm rechargeable batteries, do they suffer from the same problems?

Any wisdom on the original topic and/or the above gratefully received.

(Just to put this in context I haven't had a PDA before. The wife has a M125 she's happy with and got one for me as a present but I'm thinking of upgrading it to one of the above to get a high rez colour screen (don't really like hers that much) and the faster processor/more memory. Going to take a hit on the exchange anyway 'cos she bought it a while ago and it's discontinued now so I'd like to know if the end result is going to be the right deal. I know I'll use it for the standard PDA organizer functions etc., don't really know how much use I'll find for the MP3, camera and other glitz but they do appeal in theory.)

Thanks,

Mick

[TechnoCat]

First off, realize that the Z71 isn't that much faster than the SJ33. It is faster on ARM-optimized applications, but the SJ33 isn't a slouch either and most PDA functions won't notice.

Unless you intend to play first-person-shooter action games or videos, the speed differential is probably moot for you.

Secondly, I can't speak on the SJ22 but the SJ33 and Zire71 are also faster than the Visor due to more optimized ROM and OS routines. Same thing QuickBits used to do.

[PEG-SJ30]

I think that the battle is between the SJ22 and Zire71. They have the most differences. It all comes down to the $100 difference. Which do you prefer?

[martin.ca]

Zire 71 have the fastest expansion card read/write speed, because of the OS 5.2's VFS optimized.

[PaulNB]

Originally posted by martin.ca
Zire 71 have the fastest expansion card read/write speed, because of the OS 5.2's VFS optimized.


How much faster though ? 1 second faster, 2 seconds faster, 10 seconds faster ? Real world numbers are more important than technical specification differences. The same could be said for running applications, how much faster is the Zire 71 at running applications than the SJ33 or any other device for that matter. It's not going to be noticeably quicker depending on what applications you're using.

[martin.ca]

Originally posted by PaulNB



How much faster though ? 1 second faster, 2 seconds faster, 10 seconds faster ? Real world numbers are more important than technical specification differences. The same could be said for running applications, how much faster is the Zire 71 at running applications than the SJ33 or any other device for that matter. It's not going to be noticeably quicker depending on what applications you're using. I'll show you this graph of VFSMarks of different PDAs then you will understand.

It's a LOT faster.

http://www.ahui543.idv.tw/doc/Zire/index3.files/image005.gif

:cool:

















.

[PaulNB]

Originally posted by martin.ca
I'll show you this graph of VFSMarks of different PDAs then you will understand.

It's a LOT faster.

So can one extrapolate from that chart that, for example, something that takes 5 seconds to access on Zire would take 10-11 seconds on other devices ? (Based on the 325 rating vs 158 on other units) If so then this would obviously be an important factor to those who use the external storage extensively. Sorry if this is obvious but I don't give the tech specs too much consideration usually, at least when it comes to PDA's. If it works well for me I'm happy.

.

[noktoto]

0S5 > OS4
Zire 71

[TechnoCat]

Originally posted by noktoto
0S5 > OS4
Zire 71 Utterly meaningless.
WinXP > Win2000.
Very few Win2000 users have upgraded to XP, in corporate or personal worlds; XP is primarily sold pre-installed. It doesn't offer much new service, it's bigger, and has some other glaring flaws.

If you don't have a need for the new features in OS5, why would you care which OS your system is running? OS4 is pretty new also, and although it's available as an upgrade for my Palm IIIc, I never bothered.

[ClieMarty]

i would suggest to get an os5 device and that would mean the zire71 as long as sony is not coming up with a cheap entry clié running os5.

i do not agree with technocat. it's not only the newer os but it's also the new hardware platform. i use a nx70v and i won't ever go back to any os4 device. just perform a search on an os5 device once. is so much faster.

in terms of the zire71 you'll also get the camera and - from what i heard - much better screen.

[Alejandrico]

The battery in a SJ22 can be replaced, I think is a new feature
I chose the SJ22 instead of the SJ33 because the $100 diference and I really don't need MP3 player on it
I haven't had problems with the battery life but I believe that if you use it extensively you'll find that a full charge won't last long

[TechnoCat]

Originally posted by ClieMarty
I do not agree with technocat. it's not only the newer os but it's also the new hardware platform. i use a nx70v and i won't ever go back to any os4 device. just perform a search on an os5 device once. is so much faster.I respect your disagreement :) Here's my reasoning for thinking it isn't so valuable...

We (wifey and I) most regularly use a Z71 and a IIIc. The former is OS5, the latter is OS3.5 running 20MHz. Although wifey very much prefers the Z71 for form-factor reasons, we find no practical different in speed.

"Practical" is a loaded term. Neither of us does "searches" to any degree. We have under 100 contacts in our address books, but those just don't take long to search. The other apps all bring up the right stuff (e.g. "today") automatically when you start them.

The only delays we ever see on the IIIc are when loading a huge Plucker document (> 250KB) and when doing a search on PocketTV, and neither of these is more than a few seconds ever.

So my belief, based on daily experience with both an ancient IIIc and a new Z71 is that, for PDA functions, they are equivalent.

However, I'll also point out that Kinoma is great on the Z71 and dreadful in so many ways on the IIIc, and that there's no reason to avoid the Z71 or OS5. I just don't see any inherent value in OS5 for someone otherwise considering a SJ22 at $100 less.

[PaulNB]

Originally posted by noktoto
0S5 > OS4
Zire 71

OS5 hasn't shown itself to be essential. In fact it has a huge flaw in that it is no longer compatible with the hundreds of hacks that many Palm users depend on to customize their devices the way THEY want them to be.

[PaulNB]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alejandrico
[B]The battery in a SJ22 can be replaced, I think is a new feature
I chose the SJ22 instead of the SJ33 because the $100 diference and I really don't need MP3 player on it

It's not just MP3's though there's a faster processor & the memory stick is faster to access as well. Personally I'd pay $100 for those even if it didn't have MP3's simply because of the large amount of memory stick access I engage in.

[Alejandrico]

Too bad I wasn't around here before buying my CLIE, It was after I bought it I found this place
In addition the SJ33 has more software like documents to go

[lee555]

I've just recently bought a second-hand SJ30, which is almost identical to the SJ22 except for the software package. I use my PDA primarily for ebook reading, and one my main considerations is the battery life, it just makes no sense to read ebooks if the battery lasts only about 3 hours.

Here's what I did, I installed battery log, a hack program that measures how long your PDA was active, then I set the backlight to about 1/4 setting, then I went about my daily routine, which consists primarily of ebooks and avantgo reading, approximately 1-/2 hours of text twist, literati, and collaspe. I showed the kinoma player and PG pocket to friends, they fiddled with it for about 15 minutes. I hotsync and installed new software about 5 times.

The battery warning came at 7 hours 15 minutes of use. take note that during Kinoma and PGPocket applications, I would turn the backlight to full.

The next day, I didn't play games, didn't use Kinoma or PGpocket, didn't play games, I just read and read and read my ebooks, including a goodly session which lasted for about 3 hours straight, and another two hours straight in the afternoon, there was about 1-1/2 hours in the morning where I turned off the backlight, coz I was outside. In the evening, my battery still had 3.65v, from a full of 4.23v, I had used my PDA for 9 hours 35 minutes.

As for the speed, I haven't tried any 66mhz pda yet, so I don't have any thing to compare with, but it's fast for normal pda use and ebook reading. But I have tried the game Zap! and it plays sluggishly, but I prefer word games on my Clie anyway...

Hope this helps,;)
Monkeyking

[Unregistered]

Thank you all for your inputs.

From your inputs, I think the best PDA for me right now is SONY Clie SJ33 because of its faster CPU, jog dial, longer battery life, and faster memory card read/write speed. However, I am unwilling to pay $299 (or evern $250) for an ebook reader at this point.

My guess is SONY will come out with a new PalmOS5 PDA in a few months. SONY will probably reduce the price of SJ33 and SJ22 at that time. I will wait till Sony reduces price of SJ33 to about $200 :)

Again. Thank you all for your input.

cive1em

[___]

Originally posted by Alejandrico
Too bad I wasn't around here before buying my CLIE, It was after I bought it I found this place
In addition the SJ33 has more software like documents to go

The SJ33 DOES NOT come with more software.

[PaulNB]

Originally posted by ___


The SJ33 DOES NOT come with more software.

It DOES come with more than the SJ22 which it appears that the poster you replied to was talking about. He said he had an SJ22 in one earlier post & his later post talked about it being too bad that he didn't know about this board before he made his choice & that the SJ33 had more software. (one can reasonably assume he meant more than his SJ22. That was also one of the devices being considered by the original poster as evidenced by the title of the thread)

[SJ-22 Fella]

SJ-33=Docs to go.

[tap1390]

I purchased a Zire 71 today. I replaced a Sony N760C. Using Powerrun, it took MobileDB 55 seconds to load from the memory stick. Using the Zire 71, it takes 7 seconds. The unit in general is much much faster than my Sony, if that is a consideration. Also, the display is much better.

[X Destruction]

I believe the Zire 71 is using sony's 2003 pda screen, which means SJ33, SJ22, NZ and TG. You say it's better than a sony screen, it IS a sony screen. The SJ's screen I believe was a little older because it's entry/mid level. Sony tends to give more to the high end models, and hold back on the entry level. Palm on the other hand, doesn't really care with giving features, it'll give the same screen, and other stuff through all price ranges. They won't hold back. Most of us do stick with Sony because they are the innovators. Before the TC, Sony OS5 devices were the fastest, and the only palms with XScale PXA250 processors, instead of the Dragonball Arm processor of the Tungsten T (the ONLY palm os 5 palm device out before the Zire 71 and Tungsten C). Before the TC and the Zire 71, there was no contention of who's screen was better, the Sony was hands down (to reiterate what I said before, I believe the TC and the Zire 71 have Sony screens).