OnTop beta

[pruss]

http://www.wikifortio.com/508735/OnTopTrial.zip

OnTop lets you launch applications on top of other applications. Not compatible with all combinations of applications or all devices.

Requires OS 5, and either a square screen device (e.g., Treo 7xx) or the TX, T5 or LifeDrive. Not recommended on other devices, but you can try it. (Internally, OnTop uses Accessorizer. If you have a copy of Accessorizer, it will update your Accessorizer to a newer version. If you don't, it will install a hidden copy when you activate it and delete it when you deactivate it.)

You can assign either a single application to a key, or you can assign a list of applications to a key. Currently, only the four application keys are supported. I want this to be very simple to use.

OnTop is shareware, with an 8 day trial (the release version will have a fresh trial period). The first 8 users to submit a bug/test report BY EMAIL to arpruss at gmail dot com will get a free registration.

[phreakonaleash]

here is a question: why?
I don't see how this is different than dakey+accesorizer...
Please correct me if I'm wrong...

[BrentDC]

That's what I thought, but once I tried it out I saw the difference, this one caused a hard reset :D But I have faith that Alex will make it better :)

[pruss]

That's what I thought, but once I tried it out I saw the difference, this one caused a hard reset :D But I have faith that Alex will make it better :)

Do you also get crashes with DAKey+Accessorizer? (Particularly with the version of Accessorizer that OnTop installs?)

The difference is that it should be a bit easier to use than two apps, and that you can assign different sets of apps to different keys if you like.

[BrentDC]

I do gets resets with the old accessorizer, but not ones that cause reset loops. I didn't have time to test out the new accessorizer as it almost immediately caused a hard reset. I emailed you the complete results of my short experience. BTW reset doctor said the reset loop was a fatel exception. (reset dotor must keep the log on the card?).

[PinCushionQueen]

Well, I don't have any crashes or reset loops w/ OnTop. Works great with the apps I've tried. I didn't attempt to launch known buggy Accessorized apps like PTunes though. I do have one suggestion... How's about making the button available for launching a 2nd app with press & hold? Or could you include an OnTop option to the macros of myKbd.

[I love my mom]

Not trying to sound rude, Pruss did ask for bug reports by email :)

[FerdFerd]

Not trying to sound rude, Pruss did ask for bug reports by email :)True enough, but it also is helpful to those who might be looking this over to know the experience of others. It helps to know what issues to look for.

[I love my mom]

Yes, but I didn't want anyone to miss out on the free licenses ;)

I downloaded and tried it, and it worked fine. No resets, I was able to assign an app to all my hard keys without problems.

[pruss]

Could the folks who were having crashes try out the following experiment:
1. Turn on OnTop and set up its options.
2. Download Accessorizer from 1src freeware and install it. (The order is important. If you reset, or turn on or configure OnTop after doing that, it will update Accessorizer to its own version.)
3. See if the crashes occur.

[pruss]

Not trying to sound rude, Pruss did ask for bug reports by email :)

Actually, I didn't. I only said that the first bunch of people sending reports by email will get free reg codes. :-)

[FerdFerd]

I was getting an occasional crash when I'd tap the icon as if to lower the DIA. I did this only to check to see if full screen was now an option for the applications launched over another. The DIA won't retract, but once in awhile my TX would crash when I tried it, even thought the icon to do it is dimmed.

I can't tell whether installing Accessorizer 0.38 after setting up OnTop matters. At the moment I'm not able to reproduce these crashes either way.

One thing I notice is that the screen flickers briefly when I tap that icon, even though the DIA doesn't retract. Other applications that don't allow the use of the full screen don't flicker like this when I tap the dimmed status bar icon.

Also, I see you advise against rotating the screen while in a over launched application. I can confirm that doing so with the calculator assigned to H4 does cause a crash when attempting to rotate back. This was true with CalcDA and Accessorizer 0.38, as I reported before. If there is a way to prevent the rotation altogether once in the OnTop-launched application, that would protect the unsuspecting from themselves.

[pruss]

Here's how to duplicate the crash: tap and hold the DIA button.

[BrentDC]

I usually experience resets with accessorizer when using the status bar in conjunction (e.g. I'm running Spell5 on top of Blazer and I pop up the wifi slip, tap the on/off pop up menu, boom reset every time). This can be a real hassle especially when I forget when I'm accessorizing something. One of the other big problems I experience with accessorizer is it "Whiting Out" things. If I launch something on top of Blazer it turns everything white. Like you said tapping and holding the minimize/maximize dia button also crashes every time, these seem to be the persistent problems.

[Church Punk]

pruss, what if someone reports a non-existant bug? mean ppl could use this to their advantage... just a thought :rolleyes:

[DoctorBri]

Could the folks who were having crashes try out the following experiment:
1. Turn on OnTop and set up its options.
2. Download Accessorizer from 1src freeware and install it. (The order is important. If you reset, or turn on or configure OnTop after doing that, it will update Accessorizer to its own version.)
3. See if the crashes occur.

Just for context, here's part of the original email I sent Mr. Pruss:
I found a couple of errors in my few minutes of testing it:
1) PocketTunes only displays the minimal-"popup" version, not the full app (I think you already knew this)
2) SkyScape (SS) medical apps are glitchy
-launch SS app, use OnTop to launch a 2nd SS app, the 2nd SS app fails to launch --> soft reset
-launch SS app, use OnTop to launch a non-SS app, when going back to the SS app not all of the graphics are displayed (but nothing crashes)

I installed Accessorizer (for the 1st time, actually) as instructed, but the crash still occurs. I failed to mention this in the email, but SkyScape apps actually link to each other (oops!) so OnTop is a bit redundant for these apps. Furthermore, they share certain databases, so that may be the problem.

The relevant part, however, is the 2nd part of #2: some icons within the SS app disappear after using OnTop. They still work if you tap in the correct area, but the icons aren't actually visible. Just to be more detailed, when exiting an OnTop app and going back to the SkyScape app, the icons briefly appear, but then disappear. ....sorry if this sounded confusing.

[FerdFerd]

Here's how to duplicate the crash: tap and hold the DIA button.Yep, that does it. And using version 0.38 of Accessorizer doesn't help. In fact, this happens with OnTop turned off and Accessorizer 0.38 installed. It's an Accessorizer issue, not an OnTop one.

[pruss]

pruss, what if someone reports a non-existant bug? mean ppl could use this to their advantage... just a thought :rolleyes:
It's easier to report that there are no bugs. :-)

[pruss]

0.51 fixes the statusbar problems:
http://www.wikifortio.com/722935/OnTopTrial051.zip

[pruss]

As does Accessorizer 0.39.

[FerdFerd]

Yes, now holding the DIA icon brings up the little icons that let you choose between keyboard and alternative graffiti screens as it does in other cases. Those didn't appear and the device crashed before.

I'm still trying to decide whether I'm willing to give up my press-and-hold myKbd macros to use this. With OnTop, the initial keypress activates the OnTop application immediately and a hold is not passed through to myKbd. But I know your objective is simplicity of use, so maybe this won't be an application that users of programs like mySkin and myKbd will want or need, so long as Accessorizer remains available by itself.

[stevec]

I've also held off trying OnTop because I've found it so convenient having the six hot buttons already using Accessorizer and mySkin. I've changed my selection of apps to run and now have six that I've become used to calling up quickly with either a quick or long press. Needing to pick from a list would be a backward step if it were to be used for.

Ideal would be to put an option in OnTop to have a pick-list if 3 or more apps are assigned, but just short/long press if there are 2 (as mySkin/myKbd).

[FerdFerd]

I'm also still puzzling about assigning applications to hard keys via OnTop. I can see that there are attrative features to having three applications assigned to a key and then selecting from the popup menu that appears when the key is pressed. Are there potential troubles with activating them as DAs this way? For example, if H2 is used by OnTop, the key couldn't be used ever to launch the native Calendar application. It could only be launched over the top of whatever is active when the button is pressed. Should I care about that? I can't really decide. Maybe having the Calendar or Contacts always act as overlying applications is fine.

What say you others?

[Greek]

I don´t like loosing the main function of the button, perhaps it would be nice that OnTop detects that there is a main app to be launched, and be able to launch the DA when pressed for more than 1 sec, or pressed twice.

Regards,

[stevec]

I've not used two the buttons for their original purposes since I got Agendus (or Action Names) for my IIIx. Having the option of using them to pop other apps over the one I'm working on is a big bonus - so much so that I've reprogrammed all three (with Agendus popping up on a long press as a DA).

[FerdFerd]

(with Agendus popping up on a long press as a DA).I assume this means you have one key that isn't being mapped by OnTop then? Or have you found a way to get a long press to work with OnTop controlling the key?

[stevec]

Correct - the Home key is left alone to return me to the launcher (and I mean launcher - stopped it going Favorites every time); I could add a long press DA but left it free for the time being. I haven't gone over to OnTop because, as I said above, mySkin's short/long press seems better than a popup. Using mySkin, the buttons are:

Calendar: S=MathU (calculator); L=MyBible
Address Book: S=Call Lookup DA; S=Agendus
Note Pad: S=Note Pad; L=BrainForest

S=short press, L=long press. All are DAs made with Accessorizer, except for CallLookupDA, which came with DALauncher.

If OnTop had the option for short/long with just two mappings, then I'd go for it and try a few more permutations.

[pruss]

0.52 adds hold keys.

http://www.wikifortio.com/813508/OnTopTrial052.zip

Turn off 0.51 before installing 0.52.

[FerdFerd]

Good addition! Works fine so far, although now I'm having OnTop do what myKbd macros and Accessorizer DAs were already doing. But I can see this is simpler to use. There is only one step - assign your desired application to be a pop-up to a key and you're done.

I see Accessorizer now is 0.39a. Will that be stand-alone too? Or is it even needed?

Edit: Oops, a problem. Assigning Calc to Hold Key 4 produces no effect. If I hold H4, nothing happens at all. It looks like this is an issue for Hold Key 4, not Calc. I can't seem to get any application to work on Hold Key 4. Calendar and Contacts on Hold Key 2 and Hold Key 3 respectively work fine.

[pruss]

Good addition! Works fine so far, although now I'm having OnTop do what myKbd macros and Accessorizer DAs were already doing. But I can see this is simpler to use. There is only one step - assign your desired application to be a pop-up to a key and you're done.

Right. Also, OnTop can do something myKbd and Accessorizer can't, namely have multiple popup lists of accessorized apps.

I see Accessorizer now is 0.39a. Will that be stand-alone too? Or is it even needed?

I don't think it has any significant changes.

Edit: Oops, a problem. Assigning Calc to Hold Key 4 produces no effect. If I hold H4, nothing happens at all. It looks like this is an issue for Hold Key 4, not Calc. I can't seem to get any application to work on Hold Key 4. Calendar and Contacts on Hold Key 2 and Hold Key 3 respectively work fine.

Interesting. I'll check into this.

[FerdFerd]

Another thought for likely adopters: How about also allowing an assignment to Hold Center Key?

[FerdFerd]

Right. Also, OnTop can do something myKbd and Accessorizer can't, namely have multiple popup lists of accessorized apps.Good point, which I had forgotten.

[pruss]

Key 4 hold should work in 0.54. There is also a compatibility mode. If you've been having crashes on app exit, try first 0.54 as it stands, and then try it in compatibility mode.

http://www.wikifortio.com/376444/OnTopTrial054.zip

[PinCushionQueen]

Ok this version of OnTop is much better than before :D I really like that you added press & hold (as I said in my post on the 1st version - didn't want to give up my macro) and it looks like you added the possiblilty of more apps to the list. How many is max # for the list?

Sorry that I can't find any bugs per se... I did find a couple of unusual behaviors that I cannot replicate: Once while I was in Applications and was cycling through the categories, everything switched to full screen when I got to "ALL" category. Nothing crashed or anything, I've just not seen this behavior in later versions of Accessorizer. One other odd behavior was a couple of time when I pressed and held to bring up OnTop list, as soon as I let go of the button, the list disappeared - I needed to move my thumb to the 5-way to navigate the list. However, as I said, I can't replicate these oddities so I don't think they count as "bugs" I'll keep testing through the day and see if I can find the pattern.

I've never had problems with exiting apps (even when others were) so I can't really comment on "Compatibility Mode"

[BrentDC]

I have noticed a small bug also. I have my OnTop list set to press and hold hard button one, and when I do so, at first the systems built-in recently run program list pops up, but then almost instantly afterwords the OnTop list pops up on top of that list. When I try to select an application to run on top of my currently running program my DIA goes up like it would usually, but I cannot see the new application, I still see the old one. If I hit the home button it goes back to the "base" application. If I assign the OnTop list to any other button this problem does not occur.

[BrentDC]

I have another slightly more bothersome problem. I went to go launch OnTop, and it put my device in a reset loop (Reset Doctor said Fatal Exception). I warm reseted and opened the built-in delete list, and it put my device in another reset loop. Warm reset again and I try launching Resco Explorer, it can't be launched because of a system error. I then try opening FileZ but instead of FileZ opening Fish Tycoon opens-not much help there. I then try launching Resco Explorer from the SD card and finally it opens. I then delete all OnTop files, and reset. Problem is now gone.

[FerdFerd]

Version 0.54 reports itself to be version 0.53.

I wasn't sure, but now that I see BrentDC's report, I think I should record this. I also had an endless crash-reset loop shortly after installing 0.54. I haven't been able to reproduce it, but I know it began when my unit was off. I tried to turn it on with the center button, which is my usual power button via CenterMenu. The unit would not come on. And it wouldn't come on with any of the other hard keys or the real power button. Only a soft reset would revive it, and then it went into the endless reset loop. I was able to perform a warm reset, but when I tried to start the Applications application from the Favorites screen so I could try to delete OnTop, my unit crashed again into the endless reset loop. Several attempts at warm resets did the same thing. I finally did a hard reset and restored from backup. All was fine, so I deleted the old version of OnTop (o.52 from the backup set) and installed version 0.54 again. So far, my device is now working correctly without any reset loops.

I can't be certain that OnTop is the cause, but I haven't ever had such a reset loop before.

I have Crash Pro installed, but it didn't log these crashes, probably because they began with the soft reset I performed to get my device to even power back on.

[pruss]

I have another slightly more bothersome problem. I went to go launch OnTop, and it put my device in a reset loop (Reset Doctor said Fatal Exception). I warm reseted and opened the built-in delete list, and it put my device in another reset loop. Warm reset again and I try launching Resco Explorer, it can't be launched because of a system error. I then try opening FileZ but instead of FileZ opening Fish Tycoon opens-not much help there. I then try launching Resco Explorer from the SD card and finally it opens. I then delete all OnTop files, and reset. Problem is now gone.

Hmm. I thought I had fixed this bug. See if it happens with a fresh install after deleting all OnTop files.

The TX's default launcher doesn't work very well after a warm reset. That's an unrelated issue. I recommend putting Filez in your Favorites, or else installing ForceDelete, precisely for such eventualities.

[pruss]

0.55 fixes one bug, though probably not the one that caused the crashes. Who knows, though? I recommend deleting the previous version completely (with the launcher) and then setting the settings anew.

http://www.wikifortio.com/772552/OnTopTrial055.zip

I think the problem is that some earlier versions would screw up the settings database when all the items for some key were cleared.

[FerdFerd]

Should we be deleting Accessorizer at the same time too?

Edit: Maybe not. I see that it gets updated automatically when the new version of OnTop is loaded.

0.55 OK at first look.

[FerdFerd]

With 0.55, when I leave Key 3 unassigned, pressing it does not bring up Contacts. Nothing happens on a short press of Key 3.

Key 3 continues to bring up Calendar and my myKbd macro that assigns Calculator to a short press of Key 4 also works.

The OnTop Holds work fine on 2, 3, and 4.

Edit: I had a myKbd hold for Key 3 assigned to ContactsDA. When I cleared that, pressing H3 returned to bringing up Contacts. So there is an odd interaction with the myKbd macros. I suspect some advice is going to be needed in the docs if there will be an interaction of these two apps.

[BrentDC]

The first time I installed OnTop, and ran into problems I had to HARD RESET and restore from a backup before I installed it, so it is definitely not a "left overs" problem. I can't really do a comprehensive test of OnTop until this serious bug is resolved. BTW I have been using the version of Accessorizer that OnTop installs and haven't had any problems, but I also haven't had time to extensively test it. I'll let you know how it fares when I do.

[FerdFerd]

I recommend putting Filez in your Favorites, or else installing ForceDelete, precisely for such eventualities.After my experience, I have followed your advice to put FileZ in my Favorites. And I admit I'd forgotten about ForceDelete, which I did have installed and could have tried. I bet I won't forget again if the time arises!

[pruss]

I have another slightly more bothersome problem. I went to go launch OnTop, and it put my device in a reset loop (Reset Doctor said Fatal Exception). I warm reseted and opened the built-in delete list, and it put my device in another reset loop. Warm reset again and I try launching Resco Explorer, it can't be launched because of a system error. I then try opening FileZ but instead of FileZ opening Fish Tycoon opens-not much help there. I then try launching Resco Explorer from the SD card and finally it opens. I then delete all OnTop files, and reset. Problem is now gone.

I expect this was due to the corruption of the OnTop settings database. The bug that caused the corruption has, I think, been fixed.

[pruss]

I have noticed a small bug also. I have my OnTop list set to press and hold hard button one, and when I do so, at first the systems built-in recently run program list pops up, but then almost instantly afterwords the OnTop list pops up on top of that list. When I try to select an application to run on top of my currently running program my DIA goes up like it would usually, but I cannot see the new application, I still see the old one. If I hit the home button it goes back to the "base" application. If I assign the OnTop list to any other button this problem does not occur.

This MAY be fixed in 0.55.

[BrentDC]

I've tested the new version of Accessorizer (which OnTop installed), and everything looks great! I threw everything including the kitchen at it, and it didn't crash once. Tap and holding the status bar, turning WiFi on and off, "Slip shortcut launching", everything I pretty much tried and no problems. So if you can get the reset loop thing cleared up with OnTop I think it'll be pretty solid. (I'll try the newest version in the morning).

[dreamteam]

i did remove .51 before install .55.
both of my tx and t5 went into reset loop after a soft reset.

[FerdFerd]

With 0.55 installed I awoke this morning with my TX in an endless reset loop. ForceDelete did not remove OnTop, so when it completed its soft reset, I was back in the loop. FileZ did delete OnTop and the resets ended.

I am almost sure my loop began after the soft reset that follows my schedule NVBackup. There should have been a scheduled Resco Backup 15 minutes after the NVBackup, but it never happened. I must have been in the reset loop at that point, which was still going on three hours later.

I installed 0.55 again, configured it, and immediately did a soft reset. I was again in the endless loop. Once more I installed it, but this time did not configure anything or even start OnTop. I did a soft reset and was in the loop once more.

[pruss]

I am pretty sure that the reset loops are caused by corruption in the "OnTop Settings" database. Deleting this database should get you out of the reset loop. But I cannot figure out what causes that corruption.
Did you delete the previous versions with the launcher (which would delete the settings) before installing this one? It's possible that the corruption was caused by a previous version.

[pruss]

i did remove .51 before install .55.
both of my tx and t5 went into reset loop after a soft reset.

How did you remove .51? With the Launcher's delete function?

Thanks!

[FerdFerd]

Did you delete the previous versions with the launcher (which would delete the settings) before installing this one? It's possible that the corruption was caused by a previous version.I've been using FileZ to delete during my testing because I haven't been able to get to the Applications delete function. But I've been sure to delete both the application and the settings files. In the last trial, I put back the application only and immediately reset without even opening OnTop. Even that put me in the reset loop. I don't think there was an opportunity to even create the setting file.

I'll go back and confirm this to be sure I haven't forgotten a step somewhere, but my TX is recharging after its three hour session of resetting.

[FerdFerd]

Is it of interest that my TX seems to work fine with OnTop 0.55 installed and working, until there is a reset? That's when the loop begins. Is the settings file corrupted by the reset itself?

[FerdFerd]

Here is the latest: With no OnTop files present I restored OnTop 0.55 from my last backup. I restored only the application, not the configuration database. I immediately reset my device and did not enter a reset loop. I then opened OnTop but did not configure anything. I just turned it on. When I reset, I entered the reset loop. After a warm reset, I deleted the configuration file but not the application. Upon resetting I was again in the loop. Another warm reset and I confirmed that there was indeed no configuration database present. I deleted the main application. The following reset was normal -- no loop.

It seems that the application itself is getting corrupted, since it's OK if it is not ever run, but causes the loop by itself if it has been run. Once run, the device loops on reset whether the database is present or not.

Edit: As I think about this last paragraph, I wonder why I can restore the main application from NVBackup and not get a reset loop. That copy was run before the backup.

Edit 2: I've confirmed the above sequence with a fresh copy of 0.55, not one from backup.

[stevec]

Deleted Accessorizer, cleared all the assignments in mySkin, deleted the DAs I'd created, reset my T5 and loaded up OnTop 0.54. Fired it up and tried to set launcher for H1 (as for my mySkin assignments) - couldn't see it in the list so switched to H2 on the drop-down - <POW>. Crash reports "DataMgr.c line 11116: Index out of range".

Tried again after the reset and <POW> - same on third attempt. Need my Palm running for this evening so OnTop deleted and Accessorizer restored. Can't think of anything on my T5 to cause a problem but must be something if others don't have the problem - maybe it's one of those issues that fix themselves so will try again in a few more versions.

[pruss]

Deleted Accessorizer, cleared all the assignments in mySkin, deleted the DAs I'd created, reset my T5 and loaded up OnTop 0.54.

The index problem is fixed in 0.55.

[pruss]

OK, I've got it duplicated. I forgot to put OnTop in the uncache list. Once a bug is duplicated, a fix is usually not so hard.

[pruss]

And I think it's fixed in 0.56:
http://www.wikifortio.com/641497/OnTopTrial056.zip

[FerdFerd]

And I think it's fixed in 0.56:Yes, I think so too. No crashes for me on soft reset anymore, and the functions seem fine too. If I find something else, I'll let you know.
Once a bug is duplicated, a fix is usually not so hard.:)

[FerdFerd]

Odd thing. I have Calc and ChronMemo assigned to Hold Key 4. If I hold that key, the menu pops up as it should and if I immediately release, I can select one or the other to run on top of the active application. However, if I continue holding after the menu appears and then release, the Calculator activates as a native application. It is assigned to Key 4 by a myKbd macro.

In other words, holding much longer than the time needed to get the menu to come up results in the action assigned to the key for a short press in myKbd.

I don't know if this is just a Hold Key 4 matter or is more general when multiple applications are assigned to a particular key. At the moment, Hold Key 4 is my only multiple assignment.

Edit: And, to make life interesting, I can't reproduce this right now.

[stevec]

The index problem is fixed in 0.55.

OK - missed 0.55 but got 0.56 and not crashing. A question that may have been answered but I don't recall it: is is OK to run ONTop and mySkin assignments at the same time (for different buttons)?

The reason I ask, is that, with mySkin, I'd programmed the home button long press to "power off" - more convenient than the normal power button on my T5 - the home is now a power on/off.

Alternatively, is there a way to run these special functions in mySkin on OnTop (i.e program a button to power off)? Similarly, would it be possible to assign DAs to buttons? They're not appearing in the list to pick from; I realize it's no longer necessary for normal programs (as that's all done in the background) but there are other DAs that would be handy to run from a hard button - e.g. program one of them to give a DA popup rather than having to run DALauncher.

Good application - looking forward to being able to pay for a full copy!

[FerdFerd]

is is OK to run ONTop and mySkin assignments at the same time (for different buttons)?
I have my Home button assigned to my launcher in myKbd, which I've left alone. OnTop is taking care of my hold assignments now, which used to be taken care of by myKbd and Accessorizer DAs. In other words, it seems fine in my experience to let mySkin/myKbd take care of a key and OnTop take care of others at the same time.

(I like using myKbd to assign my launcher the the home button because I then gain access to the favorites list that comes with mySkin/myKbd.)

[stevec]

Right, my current mix:

H1 - launcher (mySkin)
H1 long - power off (mySkin)
H2 - MathU (OnTop)
H2 long - MyBible (OnTop)
H3 - Agendus (assigned within Agendus, so it launches "native")
H3 long - Agendus (OnTop - "DA" for a quick lookup)
H4 - Note Pad (OnTop)
H4 long - BrainForest, Worldmate Pro, Sudoku (OnTop list)

Looking good.

[pruss]

OK - missed 0.55 but got 0.56 and not crashing. A question that may have been answered but I don't recall it: is is OK to run ONTop and mySkin assignments at the same time (for different buttons)?

For different buttons, it SHOULD be OK, but there might be some interaction bugs.

The reason I ask, is that, with mySkin, I'd programmed the home button long press to "power off" - more convenient than the normal power button on my T5 - the home is now a power on/off.

I use CenterMenu for that to power off with a long center button press.

Alternatively, is there a way to run these special functions in mySkin on OnTop (i.e program a button to power off)? Similarly, would it be possible to assign DAs to buttons? They're not appearing in the list to pick from; I realize it's no longer necessary for normal programs (as that's all done in the background) but there are other DAs that would be handy to run from a hard button - e.g. program one of them to give a DA popup rather than having to run DALauncher.

Adding DA launch support is a good idea, and should be easy enough.

Good application - looking forward to being able to pay for a full copy!

You've submitted enough reports that you can just email me for a reg code.

[pruss]

Having so much code sitting around from various PalmOS projects of my own means that sometimes adding features is mainly a matter of copying and pasting. 0.57 adds DAs to the mix:

http://www.wikifortio.com/377107/OnTop057trial.zip

There is a PowerOff DA at:
http://www.1src.com/freeware/index.php?cid=8

[FerdFerd]

OK, I'm back at the mysterious activation of the Calculator by a long press of Key 4, when that button is assigned by OnTop to Calculator and ChronMemo. Remember also that Key 4 (not hold) is assigned to Calculator (not CalcDA) by a myKbd macro.

If I hold H4 once, the menu pops up that permits me to select Calculator or ChronMemo to use over the then-active application. It doesn't matter how long I hold it, the memu remains. But if I do nothing except release H4 and then immediately hold H4 again, when I release it the second time, the Calculator starts as a native application, as if H4 was just pressed and the myKbd macro took over. Hope this is clear.

Edit: Another manifestation - if I am just resting in my launcher after exiting another application and I press and hold H4, the menu pops up and stays there when I release H4. If I dismiss the menu without doing anyting with it, as second hold of H4 brings up Calculator upon releasing H4.

[FerdFerd]

Right, my current mix:

H1 - launcher (mySkin)
H1 long - power off (mySkin)Doesn't this preclude your being able to use the most recently used/favorites menu that normally comes up with a hold of H1?

I do see that you can gain access to that list by a tap-and-hold of the home icon in the status bar, when you check mySkin/myKbd's option to put a home icon on the status bar. That may suffice.

It's good to have these sorts of tools that let each of us configure our devices to personal taste.

[pruss]

0.58 fixes a problem with long key activation, including a difficulty with myKbd interaction:

http://www.wikifortio.com/920618/OnTop058trial.zip

[dreamteam]

0.58 fixes a problem with long key activation, including a difficulty with myKbd interaction:

http://www.wikifortio.com/920618/OnTop058trial.zip
hm.. it is version .57.

[FerdFerd]

Are you sure the archive got updated? The version of OnTop that it contains reports itself to be 0.57 and it behaves the same way as I described for long presses.

[BrentDC]

Alex, could you give the actual URL of the file? That is just an html document, and without the URL I can't download it with Blazer. Thanks.

[pruss]

Let's try again:
http://www.wikifortio.com/477369/OnTop058trial.zip

Sorry, I don't have a direct URL: wikifortio doesn't provide those.

[FerdFerd]

Yes, better this time!

[pruss]

Good. I'm basically ready to release (hopefully tomorrow morning). But I'd be grateful if some people tested the expiry/registration system. I've given out eight reg codes. I can give out two more for people trying out the expiry/registration system (see if you can expire it by setting its date to 31 days in the future (that's for the beta; the release trial will be 8 days); then ask for a reg code and see if it registers properly).

[BrentDC]

If anybody wants to download it with Blazer here's the URL (I hope) http://w4.wikifortio.com/node-fs/download/5de5691bbcc64640ddc0decdf925ce04/OnTop058trial.zip

[FerdFerd]

Registry system works fine here, although I didn't see the "Thanks for Registering" screen when I started it right after moving the reg code in. I recall seeing that before. I've tried it twice.

It expires properly and shows it's fully registered on the Help screen once the reg file is present in RAM.

[BrentDC]

I'm not quite clear on the registering thing, a few days ago you sent me two files one was OnTop.prc and the other was OnTop_Registration.pdb after installing the latter it still says I have 28 days remaining on my trial. What will register it, or is that not the reg code you've been talking about?

[FerdFerd]

If this works like my other registered Pruss applications, you should be registered with both of those files installed. Did you try turning OnTop off and back on? A soft reset? (I haven't needed either in the past, though. Not with OnTop either.)

[pruss]

I'm not quite clear on the registering thing, a few days ago you sent me two files one was OnTop.prc and the other was OnTop_Registration.pdb after installing the latter it still says I have 28 days remaining on my trial. What will register it, or is that not the reg code you've been talking about?

Email me and I'll resend the code.

[stevec]

Interesting response when disabling OnTop (ie switching from On to Off): Uninstall Manager offers to show me associated applications - it seems to think OnTop is being deleted. Not a bug or problem, just an observation that may be of value...

[pruss]

Interesting response when disabling OnTop (ie switching from On to Off): Uninstall Manager offers to show me associated applications - it seems to think OnTop is being deleted. Not a bug or problem, just an observation that may be of value...

I think Uninstall Manager is a dangerous piece of software that one should not be using.

What makes Uninstall Manager think this is because a hidden copy of Accessorizer gets deleted when OnTop is turned off.

[BrentDC]

Okay, I sent the email, if you don't get it please let me know because I sent it with VersaMail (you never know if people are going to get it when you use VersaMail).

[stevec]

Loaded the reg file, changed system date to 30th July and OnTop told me its trial period had expired... registration file appears to have been deleted. Reinstall and "thank you for registering" notice back. Seems to work fine on my T5.

[stevec]

I think Uninstall Manager is a dangerous piece of software that one should not be using.

What makes Uninstall Manager think this is because a hidden copy of Accessorizer gets deleted when OnTop is turned off.

That explains the message.

I've found it useful having Uninstall Manager sitting in the background; sandbox is turned off. I usually "ignore" most of the messages it puts up but it's been of use at times in helping clear out a troublesome program. As with all such apps, you shouldn't use them blindly on automatic.

I usually have duplicate backups on my SD card (an automatic nightly one with NVBackup and a manual one with BBVFS - monthly or when embarking on some config changes or software updates); those are in addition to the ones made during HotSync with BackupBuddy.

[BrentDC]

I have uninstall manager and cleanup on my device, could that be why OnTop won't register?

[FerdFerd]

A question: If I delete Accessorizer now and then restart OnTop, will the version of Accessorizer being used by OnTop be recreated and hidden? I think this has made Accessorizer obsolete. True?

If I do delete it, I assume the Accessorizer DAs I have will have no further function?

Several Edits: In partial answer to my own question, if I delete Accessorizer, the Accessorizer-created DAs continue to function as long as OnTop is on. If I turn OnTop off, the DAs do nothing when I try to run them. There is a sense in which the DAs aren't exactly obsolete because they still work under OnTop. But there isn't a way to create any more of them. Not that I can see any need to want to do so anyway.

Of possible interest to others is that Accessorizer can be made to reappear in full glory by unchecking the hidden bit with FileZ and saving it. It is then not deleted when OnTop is turned off.

I wonder what will happen to MetaView's modification of ShowBattery that launches ApplicationsDA with a swipe in the status bar... What happens, if ApplicationsDA exists, is that the swipe works when OnTop is on, as it should because Accessorizer in its hidden form is active.

[stevec]

I've got PowerOffDA and programmed that as H1-long and works fine. However, leaving H1 without an assignment stops it acting as a fully fledged launcher button. Press it with a DA running and it clears it back to the original program; press it with a full program running and it seems to shut it down but then, after a screen flash or two, the program is running again. Assign H1 to Launcher in mySkin makes it work as a proper launcher button again.

(BTW, I modified the launcher app a while back so the button doesn't fire up Favorites - always goes straight to the native launcher - embarrassingly, I can't remember what I did, though it was following an idea in this forum - possibly posted by yourself).

[stevec]

I have uninstall manager and cleanup on my device, could that be why OnTop won't register?

They've not stopped registration for me (though check you're not running the sandbox).

[BrentDC]

(BTW, I modified the launcher app a while back so the button doesn't fire up Favorites - always goes straight to the native launcher - embarrassingly, I can't remember what I did, though it was following an idea in this forum - possibly posted by yourself).

That can be done in the palm Prefs app. It gives you a choice of Favorites or Applications.

[BrentDC]

I don't know if this has been covered already, but I'm having an interaction with myKbd. I have OnTop set to hard key 3, and a macro set to tap and hold of hard key 3, the macro doesn't work anymore. If I set OnTop to a different key the macro works fine.

[FerdFerd]

I thought I had the same behavior as BretDC, but I discovered I had OnTop turned off when I tried it. With OnTop on, I can assign a macro to H3 in myKbd and it runs correctly on a short press. The Hold Key 3 assignment in OnTop continues to work properly too.

[BrentDC]

Alex, you can delete my emails about the registration code. I got it to work by actually hotsyncing the file to my device. I don't hotsync, so I installed it with VersaMail, but that didn't work, so I then thought maybe it HAS to be synced, which it does. You might want to consider putting a warning in the ReadMe file.

[stevec]

Loaded the reg file, changed system date to 30th July and OnTop told me its trial period had expired... registration file appears to have been deleted. Reinstall and "thank you for registering" notice back. Seems to work fine on my T5.

What a load of tosh - coming to the end of a long tiring day. Expiry BEFORE loading reg file - fine afterwards.

I'd added the file to QuickInstall, ready to HotSync - and then answered the phone; did date test on T5 forgetting I still had to run the HotSync; I'd also copied the reg file to the MyInstall directory as a backup, which is where I "reinstalled" from - noticed original copy still sitting in QuickInstall and realised what drivel I'd written. Talk about a muppet - as I said, a long day!

Registration is working exactly as it should.

[BrentDC]

Well to sum it it all up, this is how I see things.

1) The major reset loop problem seems to be gone, I've done a few resets and no issues.

2) Most of the myKbd/OnTop conflicts seem to be resolved, but I still have a problem with assigning OnTop to a key press and a macro to the same key press and hold.

3) The registration system seems to be working, although I think it should be noted that the OnTop_Registration.pdb has to be HotSynced, other methods of installation will not work. Also after the trial expires, upon launching OnTop it says so, but still launches, I don't know if this was the idea, and I also don't know if the OnTop functionality will still work after expiration (I'm registered now, and I don't want to have to sync again).

[FerdFerd]

3) The registration system seems to be working, although I think it should be noted that the OnTop_Registration.pdb has to be HotSynced, other methods of installation will not work.I've been successful by just copying it from a holding directory to RAM.Also after the trial expires, upon launching OnTop it says so, but still launches, I don't know if this was the idea, and I also don't know if the OnTop functionality will still work after expiration (I'm registered now, and I don't want to have to sync again).It loads after it expires, but the assigned keys do nothing until the registration file is added.

[BrentDC]

Thanks for clearing that up, that's the one thing I forgot to test :rolleyes:

[pruss]

I've got PowerOffDA and programmed that as H1-long and works fine. However, leaving H1 without an assignment stops it acting as a fully fledged launcher button. Press it with a DA running and it clears it back to the original program; press it with a full program running and it seems to shut it down but then, after a screen flash or two, the program is running again. Assign H1 to Launcher in mySkin makes it work as a proper launcher button again.

(BTW, I modified the launcher app a while back so the button doesn't fire up Favorites - always goes straight to the native launcher - embarrassingly, I can't remember what I did, though it was following an idea in this forum - possibly posted by yourself).

I can duplicate the problem if I have something assigned to H1-hold in myKbd. But if I have nothing assigned to H1-hold, all is well. Do you have something assigned to H1-hold in mySkin?

[pruss]

If OnTop finds a copy of Accessorizer when OnTop is activated, it updates it to the latest version. If the copy it finds is hidden, it stays hidden. If it's not hidden, it stays not hidden. When OnTop is turned off, it checks if Accessorizer is hidden. If it is hidden, it deletes Accessorizer (this creates an illusion that OnTop does all its own processing). If it is not hidden, it leaves it alone.

I was initially aiming OnTop at less advanced users who would find Accessorizer intimidating. Most of the functionality of OnTop is available for free for Accessorizer users, after all.

[stevec]

I can duplicate the problem if I have something assigned to H1-hold in myKbd. But if I have nothing assigned to H1-hold, all is well. Do you have something assigned to H1-hold in mySkin?

With all macros deleted in mySkin, an unassigned H1/H1-long just seems to shut down the running app and then reload it. Shuts down a DA, just not a full app - even if it's been run from the native launcher. The soft home button works fine.

As it stands, I've returned to having H1 assigned "Launcher" in mySkin. I was going to suggest adding the "special" list from mySkin to OnTop - but that might defeat the aim of keeping it simple. As long as mySkin and OnTop continue not to clash.

On that subject - is there a defined precedence to the various programs assigning functions to the hard buttons? I can do it through Prefs, Agendus, mySkin and OnTop - it appears that Agendus overrides any assignments in Prefs and both are overridden by mySkin and then OnTop. Is that by design or just happens to be the way it works out on my T5?

[pruss]

Steve:

I am guessing it has to do with either your using an old version of mySkin or with the Favorites thing, because with the latest myKbd, things seem to be OK on my T5. I don't have a better solution at the moment.

[stevec]

Steve:

I am guessing it has to do with either your using an old version of mySkin or with the Favorites thing, because with the latest myKbd, things seem to be OK on my T5. I don't have a better solution at the moment.

Not to worry - just reporting what I'm getting - it works. Out of interest, I currently have mySkin 2.43 - downloaded 2.51 to see if it's any different (I'll also try myKbd) - I suspect it's the "Favorites" hack to make the button fire up launcher rather than favorites; if I could remember what I did, I'd back it out as it's unnecessary now.

Thanks.

[FerdFerd]

I suspect it's the "Favorites" hack to make the button fire up launcher rather than favorites; if I could remember what I did, I'd back it out as it's unnecessary now.I remember Alex giving directions here in the forums for doing what you've done. Would that be a place to go to see if you could back out the changes?

I didn't try to find the thread, and I didn't do the modifications at the time. But I'm pretty confident that you can find it here.

[stevec]

FerdFerd,

Found it - looked fro it last night without success - straight to it today. One of Alex's small apps that do nothing - and change creator to Fave. Removing it gets me back to that darned Favorites app every time, so that's no good. Strangely, having installed myKbd and deleted all keyboard macros (just to make sure it was "clean") and the home button gets fixated on starting the native calendar. Weird -0 but setting H1 to the special/Launcher function gives me back what I want. Looks like the optimun config will be myKbd to program buttons to run apps in "full" mode, and OnTop for those in DA mode.

Sounds messy and complicated but, together, they allow me to program buttons exactly as I want - to suit my way of working.

Thanks, Alex!

[FerdFerd]

Most of the functionality of OnTop is available for free for Accessorizer users, after all.True, except for being able to assign multiple applications to one key. At least for me, that is one valuable added advantage to OnTop.

[khaytsus]

I've just discovered OnTop, and I think it's awesome. However, I don't want to give up a hard key. Perhaps this won't be an issue when Press-and-Hold is fixed on the 680, but...

What's the chance of a "Launcher" program, which does the same thing a Hard key press does, which I could run from QuickLaunchAnywhere in ZLauncher, or for other users, ZLink, HiLauncher, etc? That would be ideal for me.. I have a dedicated button for QLA, within it is an "OnTop" launcher, which would present me my list of programs to launch. Similar to how I have MetaDA set up, I launch it from QLA to get a list of DAs.

Perhaps this sounds a little silly, but OnTop seems more stable than Accesserizer.