Proof! Palm has given up on handhelds!

[phreakonaleash]

I was reading an intersting interview on cnet, with Jeff Hawkins.

Q: This product (the foleo) seems to be the final shovel of dirt over the PDA's grave. Do you see any room left for innovation in smaller PDA devices?


JH: I don't know. Do you think of the iPod as a PDA device? I think the things people traditionally did with a PDA are more and more being done with a smart phone. We're not investing in that area much. That's not a secret. And of course the business is declining. I don't think it's declining just because we're not investing in it. We're not out to kill the PDA business. It's a good business. We still sell millions of them. That line is in its later years. It's mature. It's declining. We are not actively looking for a really clever thing to do in that space. It's probably not going to come from us.

:(
just as I have been saying...

teh article is here: http://www.cnet.com.au/mobilephones/accessories/0,239025938,339278150,00.htm

[PalmSole]

Ouch!! Do they not realize that the palm pda community is their most loyal and steadfast customer base they will ever have? Sure their statistics from marketing may show them short profit gains are to be had elsewhere with the fickle phone customer: but they are not aware of who makes up the backbone and central nervous system of what Palm really is and could potentially be :(

[phreakonaleash]

That is exactly what I mean.
Palm thinks that we are dead. "Smart phones this, smartphones that." Smartphones are geared towards corporate folks who need their outlook data with tthem 24-7 and the PDAs are geared towards us, the kind of people that would join a palm enthusiest forum, install all sorts of extensions/hacks/ great apps that the corporates wouldn't bother with. (Look at accesorizer as an example) It is sad, because without the handheld there wouldn't be a smartphone.
Consider pulling the plug when you mother is on life support and that is how it is basically. :(

[philpalm]

I am so bummed out about the PDA choices that I may just buy a PSP and a Treo. The amount of spare parts for a PSP and a Treo is humongus compared to the amount of Lifedrives and TX.

I won't be using a PSP mainly for the games and won't be using the Treo for the phone, but at this rate it looks like ordinary PDAs are finished.....

[phreakonaleash]

I am looking into getting a zodiac2, as large sd as it can find, sdio wifi card. That will end p at around 300-350 dollars, imho. Coupled with a cheap bt phone and you are set!
Or a treo. just no 700p's ;-)

[jstrubberg]

My 680 should be here tomorrow.... :-(

[phreakonaleash]

Tell us how it goes!

[LupeValenz]

I really hate Palm how they said how they are back in control with the Foleo because they don't have the carriers to go by and listen to. Ummm, if you had built handhelds instead of phones you would still BE in control. Darn them palm, never to smart. If ya didn't like being restricted by the carriers, should have made more PDA's. You had nothing to worry bout except the FCC. grrrr >.<

[jstrubberg]

I just cannot figure out how Palm thinks they are going to make money in the already oversaturated laptop market with a limited device like the Foleo.

[braj]

Just got a Treo 680 myself, my TX digi is got a dead spot again and after thinking about it it seemed more sensible to spend the money on the Treo (my wife's phone needed to be replaced anyway, so I gave her my SE and got the Treo).

I have to say I'm totally happy with it(right now anyway). I thought the screen would bother me more but actually it seems nice not to fuss with "is this app in landscape, portrait, DIA up, DIA down". The thumboard is really fast though I could see this getting old fast as I get old (hopefully not too fast.)

Some things like Agendus just seem to work better with the TReo somehow, I believe the key combos for creating meetings and tasks were available on my TX (gotta check that out) but I never used them, but with the physical hardkeys it seems I'm getting more out of the apps I have. I guess since it is more of a hassle to reach for the stylus the key combos suddenly seem so convenient.

Anyhow, a little bird told me that Palm internally has end of life'd Palm OS development and Win Mobile is all going overseas, with all efforts turned to Linux OS. With the recent shake-ups at Palm hopefully they will make the next PDA that is a Treo and Treo that is a PDA. I would rather not have this distinction so much.

How about this idea: One tiny ubiquitous phone module that plugs into your other UI device 'phones' but stores all your PIM and other data (give it a nice amount of memory).

Have one phone model with no UI (for jogging, say, and only with BT headset. Does voice dialing, including saying a number.), just big enough to give power to the phone for 2 hours talk. Clip it on your clothes or throw in your pocket. (I call this the 'Shuffle'. :) )

Have another that is a slimline phone with no touchscreen, like a standard cell. But you can T9 data into it and see all the data you enter into it in other UI devices.

HAve another that has a laptop form factor and you just plug the phone module into this and have all your data in one place, edit it, and the phone module gives telephony and a net connection to all the unit.

Just a though, I started off my Palm life witha Handspring and always thought a reverse Springboard concept would be great, where the processing component was what you swapped out into different form factors depending on your needs. So when upgrading you just choose a new UI factor and plug your old module into it. Look at all the iPod accessories, speaker systems, bigger screens. That sort of thing.

[phreakonaleash]

That is awesome braj... 0_0
Those are great ideas, but i cannot see it catching on as well

[harpgliss]

Hi,

Mr. Hawkins not caring about a very large percentage of his potential customer base has me really cheezed off.

I say if he wants to ignore me as a customer, I will ignore him and his company as I will not buy from those who I do not feel respect me.

Until we, as customers, take a stand, Palm will keep forcing us to accept what they want to peddle instead of what we really want and need.

Enough of the rant tho.

David

[fluffy]

Does anyone else have an overwhelming desire to take that foleo and
shove it into Jeff Hawkins' rear end to emphasize about how much we want a new PDA and not another foleo/treo?

[phreakonaleash]

harpgliss is right... What we should do is everyone here donate money, it shan't be much, maybe 100-200$ each and we buy Palm out. ;) fire hawkins (or maybe give him a smartphone division and tell him to go hog wild) Then we build our new device. (steal braj's idea ;))

@fluffy: uhhh... go ahead, i'll stand over here. *inches away* *runs* *trips* *gets ups and runs again*

[Greek]

75% or more of Palm sales are smartphones. The tendency will keep increasing. So they will keep releasing Treos and smartphone companions as the Foleo is. Forget about PDAs, no one does them anymore. Not even bigger players as Dell or HP.

So you better start making the idea that your next device will be a smartphone or let´s just stick with our TXs.

Palm and Hawkins are on the business to make money, not to satisfy geeks like us. ;)

And although I will go against the majority here, I do think the Foleo is a good idea. Just think that 99% of the people who buy laptops don´t know how to use them, don´t know how to use Windoze, don´t know how to install/uninstall programs, they don´t know how to burn a CD/DVD, they don´t know how to download/unzip something.

All they learned is to receive and send emails, a few know what Google is. The Foleo is for them or for people like me who have full sized PCs at home and work, and don´t want to carry extra weight on the road just to send/receive emails. I won´t be converting videos or anything while on the road.

Instant on, lightweight, long lasting battery, easy to use is all I need while on the road.

Regards,

[BrentDC]

If every person that joined this forum contributed to the purchase of Palm we'd each have to pay roughly $23,000.

[thenrik]

From the time I purchased my Tungsten C to the present, palm released one patch for the Tungsten C and one patch for enterprise wireless users for the T/X. Palm releases hardware and provides a flawed OS and then abandons their users--look at all of the Treo 700p users.

Personally, I'm happy with my T/X, happy with the Palm community, even happier about the vast amount of open source or free software and don't mind paying for the other apps I use.

I don't want a Treo, don't want to pay the sky high price Palm charges, don't want an expensive monthly fee from a phone provider and certainly don't want to pay all that and then buy a companion foolio for another $500.

Palm has the attention span of a mosquito, developing products and dropping them like hot potatoes, they don't provide customer support nor care about their customers. They don't even make good accessories or supplies.

I plan to pick up another backup T/X second-hand and keep on using it.

Palm inc. is irrelevant. Who cares about them, not me. They've had no impact for years.

I hope that 1src users will continue to use their PDAs and continue to develop software. What has changed? We've had no support from Palm for years and now know we won't ever get any support. Who wants incompetent support and even more incompetent development?

We are still just as powerful a community.

My two cents,

Tom

[phreakonaleash]

BrentDC; :-( kill joy. Would you, though? ;)

Greek: "Palm and Hawkins are on the business to make money, not to satisfy geeks like us."
If they went aobut it right they could do both. They don't. If they did, however, they would make /more/ money cause we'd be inclined to purchase a new device more often.

thenrik: "Palm has the attention span of a mosquito, developing products and dropping them like hot potatoes, they don't provide customer support nor care about their customers. They don't even make good accessories or supplies." Are we still talking about that? I am busy designing a new device ;)
the community is great because we are all active, lovers of the handhelds. We explore, we download stuff that the corporates would never use, it is great!

[tk_421]

The moment we can have a Tx-like device with a cell radio and wifi, this argument is meaningless.

Having one device instead of two is the logical thing to do. The problem is one of culture. People don't want to be seen with a brick next to their heads, since it looks geeky. So they make Treos with smaller screens.

The iphone will change all that. In no time big screens will be very fashionable, and certainly no longer geeky. Then Palm will have to listen.

If we have wifi on the device, then expensive data plans become meaningless. Just get an unlocked Treo-TX, use it for voice and use wifi for data. We'll get what we want in the end.


And remember than in 2 years sony will have a umpc that fits in your pocket, and has over 6 hours battery life. (As per Intel.)


So you'll have a choice: Treo-TX, or Treo with Sony umpc. Give it time guys, it'll come sooner than we think. In the meantime, just hold on to that dear TX!

[phreakonaleash]

Who knows, by then Palm may gone though. Look at how close it has come to extinction all ready

[jstrubberg]

If we have wifi on the device, then expensive data plans become meaningless.

Which is exactly why the carriers don't want such devices.


The HTC-derivatives are the only devices I am aware of that have both wireless and EVDO capability...and they are a pain. You have to turn off the phone network to insure you are using the wifi..

[phreakonaleash]

The HTC-derivatives are the only devices I am aware of that have both wireless and EVDO capability...and they are a pain. You have to turn off the phone network to insure you are using the wifi..

eek, that sounds fun. As for the carriers, tey are out to make money, not a nice pda.

[harpgliss]

Hi,

Well, I should clarify that my Palm based pda has been on the Sony side as I had always thought Palm was not putting forth a pda I was interested in using.

Right now I use a Dell pda and have my trusty TH55 as a backup.

I just got a new laptop, first time user in fact, and am using it more that the pda.

My pda has gone gack to more an organizer and reader than an allinone device it was being used as at one time.

I am just a customer who is not part of the demographics that palm is builing devices for and that is fine for me.

I will just spend my money elsewhere, can you say audio equipment?

For those who the Foleo is meant for, I hope it is the device you hope it will be, it is not the device for me.

Eventually I will probably, as much as I dislike the idea, I will get a smartphone but I see my self gravitating away from the Palm scene totally as it would probably be the Iphone or something a little more multimedia based than business based.

Just suits my needs more but this is not to bash palm as they are more business based but just not for me.

Guess I am just not pleased with the way the market and manufacturers are going and forgetting there are users, like me, who just want a standalone pda.

David

[Joel]

This is probably the same way I felt when Sony announced they've had it with the Clie. Cliesource almost died and we struggled to rebuild it via 1src but we never got back the "glory days." But look at me now, I'm still caring for a three year old device that still works 100%. A few days ago, I was able to make my LifeDrive into a "LifeFlash." -- it feels like I have a brand new device again!

What I'm saying is, we have to learn to adjust to what we could get and be creative in the process. Right now, if my devices die all of a sudden, I'm very willing to go use a Hipster PDA and Moleskine! Think about it. Seriously.


David, I applaud you for accepting that the Foleo is not for you and wishing others that the Foleo would work for them. We need more open minds like you. ;) As for audio equipment, did you read about the Playstation I SCPH-1001? It's an audiophile's dream!

[LupeValenz]

Does anyone else have an overwhelming desire to take that foleo and
shove it into Jeff Hawkins' rear end to emphasize about how much we want a new PDA and not another foleo/treo?

LOL I said the exact thing over at treocentral...well, not like that but something along the line of getting a foleeo, turning it long side shoving it up his rear end and then he would know how it is like to be a Palm customer!

[Joel]

C'mon people. Let's keep it clean. 1SRC is not the place to discuss this.

I understand your frustration and fear, but there are more civil ways to vent out your feelings.

[tk_421]

Not civill but I really needed the laugh!

Let's face it guys: even among Palm users, we are in a minority. Most Palm users were just using their handhelds to store contact info, their schedule, and some quick memos. They can do all that on their Treos, so they have no nede for stand alone PDAs.

Blackberries are getting wifi now, and Treos will soon follow, according to Colligan. The screens will have to become larger in the end. Trust me guys, we'll get what we all want in the end.

The problem is that I really need the Palm OS. The iphone will be nice, but we have to see how it will developp as a personnal productivity device. And no SD card slot really is a bummer. But the good thing is that it will force Palm to release a Treo-TX someday, I am sure of that.

UMPC? Meh. Having to run an anti-virus in my pocket certainly won't make me more productive.

As long as my TX doesn't fail on me, I'll be more than okay. And when they're put on clearance, I'll just buy another one. I'm getting ready to spend the next 5 years with my TX. I'll probably get a nice Vaja case soon too.

And remember that Dmittry will certainly come up with more hacks to make out TXs into TX2s. SDHC support and more heap and dbcache are on the way.

Just remember: don't get a Treo until they have wifi and a big screen! let's put some pressure on palm, they will have to listen in the end.

[bulls96]

don't get a Treo until they have wifi and a big screen! let's put some pressure on palm, they will have to listen in the end.

I'll be with you on that! :)

[iboar]

Well, my TX digitizer is slowly going out. Grafitti is getting to be more an more of a pain as the digitizer gets worse. And the darn thing is way less than a year old. I really like the Palm's higher resolution for reading eBooks. I used an iPAQ for a while, but the 240x320 screen was terrible for reading. I kept hoping they would produce a new iPAQ with a higher resolution screen, but all the manufacturers apparently gave up on the VGA screens. So I'm left wondering what I will do in the future. A dedicated eBook reader is out of the question, mainly because they are not pocketable. There most likely will never be another new Palm PDA. I'm not going to by another TX with its terrible digitizer. PocketPCs are fading away too, and they lack the resolution. I may well have to buy one of those Treos some day. But I too don't need the phone capability or the high cost data plan or a darn worthless camera. And I do want built-in WiFi. Heck, I barely use my cellphone as it is. It seems like such a waste of money to have to buy a Treo and then use it as a PDA.

[Joel]

iboar, sounds like the features you're looking for describe a TH55/E. I didn't mention it above but this is the PDA that's 3 years old.

WiFi - no problems. I use the camera (which is much better than the Treo 650) to send pictures of our baby to the grandparents. Clie Mail handles the emailing.

NetFront - I don't usually use this but I have a bookmark-ful of mobile-enhanced sites that show well

eReader - great for ebook reading because of the TH55's form factor and jogdial location.

Digitizer - absolutely no problems here. I also love Decuma, by the way.

Plus you get a TH55 Nutcase Club to go with the ownership :)

The TH55/E is arguably the best Palm-powered PDA there is. Check it out. Look for DanT. ;)

[Church Punk]

yes, i must admit that the TH55 is one of the fines pieces that sony hase come out with. After 3 years of being out it still has features that for most people are unknown :p. I didnt buy it because i felt it was like another Sony toy that would have sony-only-features/hardware. Also because by that time i wasnt looking for a pda, not untill last year :rolleyes: and the only thing i found was the TX but no more choices :confused: !!!

[tk_421]

The Tx and Th-55 are pretty much the two best PDAs ever built in my opinion. each has its own limits, but you can hardly go wrong with either of them.

I AM missing the camera a lot though. And I'm also planning on putting a microphone in there. But I love my TX, and would never, ever buy a Treo unless they made the screen as big as the TX.

Oh, did I forget to say that I need a TX with a cell radio?

[JayWigley]

I'm really curious now. . .could someone with some history on both devices provide a comparison of the TH55 versus TX. (FYI, I used Clies NR70V and TG50, then switched to a TX. . . I'm 90% happy with the TX, but I'm not insanely loyal to it by any means.)

[phreakonaleash]

A treo with a hires+ (or T|X with a radio) would not be as useful, imho as it would be too big (be like holding a T|X to your ear. try it :p) and would not have the one handed ease of use the Treo has... so I am not sure of purchasing one. maybe if it is the one with 'palmos II' but otherwise... *cocks rifle

[Zano2004]

The ought to make the 680 screen longer. Add Am/Fm/TV/Weather Radio as well as WiFi add a second SD Card slot. Expand main RAM a lot and add NVBackup to the ROM.

:D

[phreakonaleash]

and it gets too huge to use! do ou want to carry arond that cinderblock of plastice and metal and lcd in your breast pocket all day?
Two Sd slots would croud out the wifi/bt/cell radio and make it too large. As for am/fm/radio just get pTunes 4. ;)

[DanT]

I'm really curious now. . .could someone with some history on both devices provide a comparison of the TH55 versus TX. (FYI, I used Clies NR70V and TG50, then switched to a TX. . . I'm 90% happy with the TX, but I'm not insanely loyal to it by any means.)

You can satisfy your curiousity by reading this TH55 vs TX (http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120205&highlight=TH55) ;)

[tk_421]

A treo with a hires+ (or T|X with a radio) would not be as useful, imho as it would be too big (be like holding a T|X to your ear. try it :p) and would not have the one handed ease of use the Treo has... so I am not sure of purchasing one. maybe if it is the one with 'palmos II' but otherwise... *cocks rifle


Millions of people who will flock to the iphone on June 29th think otherwise.

I think Palm should give us the choice. The Treo is great as an e-mail/phone device (when it is not crashing) but poor as an organizer or handheld computer. That's why I would never buy one, honestly, until they make one with a much larger screen.

The iphone form factor will rule in the next 5 years. Palm will have no choice but to give us the choice. Diversity is needed in the Treo line.

It's Treo-TX for me or nothing. And I'm not the only user who feels that way.

[Zano2004]

and it gets too huge to use! do ou want to carry arond that cinderblock of plastice and metal and lcd in your breast pocket all day?
Two Sd slots would croud out the wifi/bt/cell radio and make it too large. As for am/fm/radio just get pTunes 4. ;)geez.......... you are no fun at all........:p My 680 could be a bit longer to get a longer screen and it would sit in my pocket better than it does now by not rolling on it's side, thus making it harder to get out of my pocket......... so there.:D

[phreakonaleash]

:p with all those extra goobers you through in it wouldn't though... it would need to be thicker and thos emore cinderblockish. so there. :D

[Gregte]

As cool as I think the iPhone is (I am a Mac guy also) and I can afford one with no issue, I still just got done buying another TX as a spare. I have no use (or very limited use) for a cell phone and the iPhone so far has a limited number of apps on it. I am in the presence of a wifi hotspot less than a half dozen days in a year so the the iPhone really has very little to offer me. On the other hand, the TX affords me endless hours of reading and endless hours of movie watching (I record movies for free from satellite TV) as well as the absolutely needed PIM functions. Any movie or any reading material is just the same whether viewed or read on the iPhone or TX so for me the TX is the obvious choice and as far as I can see will be for some years to come.

[LupeValenz]

The big thing for me with the iPhone is that I simply sync the movies/show/podcast over to the iPhone and won't have to worry about any conversions to make it work on my Palm handheld. That will save me alot of time right there.

[LupeValenz]

C'mon people. Let's keep it clean. 1SRC is not the place to discuss this.

I understand your frustration and fear, but there are more civil ways to vent out your feelings.

Your right aobut that, sorry Joel. Seems a lil bit of that anger flowed over from visiting Treocentral (all the 700P release, the new foleo...man they are ruthless over there >.<) Back in my happy 1Src mood \(^.^)/

[Joel]

The big thing for me with the iPhone is that I simply sync the movies/show/podcast over to the iPhone and won't have to worry about any conversions to make it work on my Palm handheld. That will save me alot of time right there.

The Missing Sync can partially do these capabilities now with the Treo.

And thanks for being back to your happy 1SRC mood ;)

[LupeValenz]

Yes but isn't the Missing sync for Macs? That sounds cool that it can do that with the Treo's. I believe there was Mass storager (sp?) for windows...its a good work around but not as simple as it can be I believe >.<
Lol no problem ^.^/

[palmTE]

...

Anyhow, a little bird told me that Palm internally has end of life'd Palm OS development and Win Mobile is all going overseas, with all efforts turned to Linux OS. With the recent shake-ups at Palm hopefully they will make the next PDA that is a Treo and Treo that is a PDA. I would rather not have this distinction so much.

How about this idea: One tiny ubiquitous phone module that plugs into your other UI device 'phones' but stores all your PIM and other data (give it a nice amount of memory).

Have one phone model with no UI (for jogging, say, and only with BT headset. Does voice dialing, including saying a number.), just big enough to give power to the phone for 2 hours talk. Clip it on your clothes or throw in your pocket. (I call this the 'Shuffle'. :) )

Have another that is a slimline phone with no touchscreen, like a standard cell. But you can T9 data into it and see all the data you enter into it in other UI devices.

HAve another that has a laptop form factor and you just plug the phone module into this and have all your data in one place, edit it, and the phone module gives telephony and a net connection to all the unit.

Just a thought, I started off my Palm life witha Handspring and always thought a reverse Springboard concept would be great, where the processing component was what you swapped out into different form factors depending on your needs. So when upgrading you just choose a new UI factor and plug your old module into it. Look at all the iPod accessories, speaker systems, bigger screens. That sort of thing.

Too bad you aren't the product planner for Palm. They seem to have no original ideas nor any real interest in their product - their game is to groom the company for a buyout, pushing out products for the short term with no long term strategy.
Personally, the Treo form/size does not offer enough screen area for my PDA needs, and most smartphones are compromsied in their phone performance.

[hroldan]

It looks nice, especially for travelers. I have a BT phone, the TX and the Wireless Keyboard. I see nothing better about it but the bigger laptop screen and the USB thing.

I was sincerely hoping they were launching it with BeOS (the OS Palm bought) instead of Linux... but anyway.

[cgarrett1974]

I don't think Palm is killing the PDA market... the PDA market is killing the PDA market. Smartphones are the "rage" the days. I think PDA's are great and I think that there still can be some innovation left. However, if nobody's buyin' em, then they aren't going to invest in them.

It is funny, everyone seems to be dogging Palm these days, yet they don't want them to kill off the PDA line... why? Why does it matter? So many people in these forums and others have ignorantly called Palm "dead", when really, things could not be further from the truth. The Treo 680 is in over 80 markets world wide. They have had 15 consecutive profitable quarters. Palm does not have to be #1, they have to be profitable.

[JAmerican]

The big thing for me with the iPhone is that I simply sync the movies/show/podcast over to the iPhone and won't have to worry about any conversions to make it work on my Palm handheld. That will save me alot of time right there.

But it won't save you a lot of money.

Good luck using those third-party web apps on an airplane when your bored or in the subway. Not everywhere you go will have Wireless or EDGE available.

JAmerican

[BrentDC]

Who said the pda market was dead? These are the top selling mobile devices of Q1 2007*.

1)Motorola Q
2)Treo 650
3)Blackberry Pearl
4)Palm TX

Well isn't that funny, a Palm TX on the top five list, considering it gets no advertisments, and is 2+ years old! Fulle details can be found http://corp.handango.com/PressRelease.jsp?siteId=1&CKey=1_PRESSRELEASE_PR04302007

*Handango Q1 2007 Yardstick.

[Pgr]

I use a Plam T|X and I'm quite happy with it.

I don't really mind the Smartphone craze, I'd actually be willing to go along with it... as long as I wouldn't lose what I've conquered in my T|X: large screen and wireless.

For me the PDA + Phone thing is three quarters PDA and one quarter Phone. For many people, I understand it is the other way round...

I suppose many that have been dreaming of a TX2 in other threads in these forums probably feel the same way as I do... If the TX is the number four gadget with higher sales, then I don't see why Palm wouldn't try to make the TX2...

BTW, have you noticed how (effectively) secret the Foleo was kept? What if they have a TX2 in the bag, equally secret? :) Or a large screen Treo?

[TMann]

Who said the pda market was dead? These are the top selling mobile devices of Q1 2007*.

1)Motorola Q
2)Treo 650
3)Blackberry Pearl
4)Palm TX

Well isn't that funny, a Palm TX on the top five list, considering it gets no advertisments, and is 2+ years old! Fulle details can be found http://corp.handango.com/PressRelease.jsp?siteId=1&CKey=1_PRESSRELEASE_PR04302007

*Handango Q1 2007 Yardstick.

Actually, I believe that the data you are quoting is for software sales from Handango. There are a lot of TX owners who buy software...but there are relatively few TX's being sold anymore.

TMann

[BrentDC]

Sorry, my bad. But It does show that during the "zen of the TX" it was on of the most popular devices :)

[mrp123]

BTW, have you noticed how (effectively) secret the Foleo was kept?I think the secret was kept so well because there wasn't much to keep secret.

[Greek]

CNet is known for not being "easy" on Palm. They make the list according to hardware sales and not software sales, from their sellers database. And here is the list:

1-Palm Z22
2-iPaq rx5915
3-Palm TX
4-Mio H610

Full list: http://shopper.cnet.com/4032-3127_9-0.html?tag=pop

Regards,