Ideas for next SJ CLIE

[madmaxmedia]

For the first time, Palm has stepped up to the plate with a good multimedia PDA in the Zire 71. Whether you prefer the Zire or one of the CLIE's, I think we can all agree that the Zire 71 features and specs are very good for the price.

My question is, what will Sony do next? Assuming the next Sony model is in the next few months, it will have to match and probably exceed the Zire 71.

So bare minimum, the new SJ (let's call it the SJ40) will have an ARM processor and OS 5. It will probably have a similar form factor to current SJ33 to keep the long battery life. I don't think it will have a sliding camera, unless Sony has been planning one all along. Memory Stick Pro support is a must, but that only matches Palm SD capability. So to match or beat the Zire, it will need something new as well. Here are some possibilities-

1. 320 x 480 screen (yeah!)
2. 32MB RAM
3. Faster processor- 200 Mhz
4. 4-way controller (in addition to jog wheel)

Well, that's all I can really think of. They could add in WiFi or BT, but that's not as much of a fit in a consumer type model. Plus, those models seem to be in the $400 plus range right now.

What do you guys think? I personally prefer the bigger screen, but I don't know how much that adds to the cost. More RAM would be nice, especially since the Sony OS 5 units have less free RAM available.

[Mastervtec]

Every one has their "Dream" PDA....

[legohead]

A built-in radio wouldn't be asking too much. Heck, I've seen radios in pens! How hard could it be- maybe a tiny antenna sticking out? Of all things you can jam in a PDA, this should probably be the easiest.

[palmgeek]

SJ40 should have a Motocross dirt bike built in! That way, you could listen to MP3's while jumping berms.

Seriously, it's a PDA! I carry it for dates and numbers. The calulator comes in handy sometimes (Kalk, RPN). And, as long as I can carry documents (QuickOffice), spreadsheets (Tinysheet), and a database (SmartList to Go), I'm happy. For those who want an over-priced. useless, toy - they should switch to a Pocket PC, or get a Game Boy.

[madmaxmedia]

But Sony will still need to keep up with Palm. It's a PDA, but Sony PDA's are more than dates and numbers, if you needed just that you'd have a S360 or Palm Zire (basic one.)

Music, video, office apps (spreadsheets, etc.), databases, ebooks...all of these! The SJ33 already does a good job, but the next model will be coming soon. I was just wondering what improvements it will have to meet or beat the Zire 71.

The most useful improvement to me would be 32MB RAM. 16MB is 'enough' for me, but I have to manage memory a bit to keep it under.

[bgreschke]

Why can't Sony get their button-act together? I tried, for the first time, using my SJ-22 in the dark. Bzzzzt. You can't feel where one hardware button stops and the next one begins. And that up/down rocker switch...tsk tsk tsk. There's a reason why the first Palm Pilots just had round, bumpy buttons that weren't recessed into craters several inches/centimeters deep. Move that stupid "Clie" logo off to the side and put in a decent up/down switch. It seems pretty simple to me.

Also, coming from a HandEra...LIGHT UP THE GRAFFITI AREA! If one of the 22's we have at work gets whacked I think I'll take it apart and see what can be done about that.

A little bit more volume for alarms wouldn't hurt, and make the volume adjustments a slider, and not just high, medium, and low.

66MHz would be ideal. No MP3's, no camera's, no moving parts, no fluff, no problems. OS5.0 if necessary.

Bob

[palmgeek]

Originally posted by madmaxmedia
But Sony will still need to keep up with Palm. It's a PDA, but Sony PDA's are more than dates and numbers, if you needed just that you'd have a S360 or Palm Zire (basic one.)
...

The most useful improvement to me would be 32MB RAM. 16MB is 'enough' for me, but I have to manage memory a bit to keep it under.

What happened to me, was that my Palm IIIxe died.  I had to replace it with something...   The Zire only has 2MB of memory.  Not enough for doing hardly anything.  I'm still doing dates and numbers (Oh, and Maps too!) but the combo of MS slot, and awesome display, made the SJ20 an easy choce!  Speaking of memory, how can you have a memory problem?  Your unit *does* have a MS slot, doesn't it?  ;-)  As for the other "fluff", I simply don't need my PDA to have MP3 capabilities, nor would I want to pay extra for it (as evidenced by my choice of SJ20 over SJ30).

[madmaxmedia]

It *does* have a memory slot. But with the 128 MB limit, I try not to run out of space on that either. This happens when you do listen to mp3's (otherwise even a 64MB stick is a lot). And running programs off the stick is slower (when loading).

My point is not that the SJ33 is not a great PDA, it is. I was just wondering what Sony will do next.

[TechnoCat]

Originally posted by madmaxmedia
So bare minimum, the new SJ (let's call it the SJ40) will have an ARM processor and OS 5. It will probably have a similar form factor to current SJ33 to keep the long battery life. I don't think it will have a sliding camera, unless Sony has been planning one all along. Memory Stick Pro support is a must, but that only matches Palm SD capability. So to match or beat the Zire, it will need something new as well. Here are some possibilities-

1. 320 x 480 screen (yeah!)
2. 32MB RAM
3. Faster processor- 200 Mhz
4. 4-way controller (in addition to jog wheel) If it has an ARM, it will almost certainly be the same one in their other OS5s, which would mean 200MHz.

The SJ is not a premium line, so it wouldn't likely have more RAM than the TG/NX series. And probably not the bigger screen due to price; remember it's basically the entry level line for Sony.

So my guess would be basically the SJ33 with 200MHz, OS5, and one feature you didn't mention... a lower price than the Z71 of maybe $250 list.

Don't think of it as a must-be-killer PDA; it's the gateway drug, with the hope that some fraction will get addicted and quickly move up to the NX series.

[palmgeek]

Originally posted by bgreschke
Why can't Sony get their button-act together? I tried, for the first time, using my SJ-22 in the dark. Bzzzzt. You can't feel where one hardware button stops and the next one begins. And that up/down rocker switch...tsk tsk tsk. There's a reason why the first Palm Pilots just had round, bumpy buttons that weren't recessed into craters several inches/centimeters deep. Move that stupid "Clie" logo off to the side and put in a decent up/down switch. It seems pretty simple to me.

Also, coming from a HandEra...LIGHT UP THE GRAFFITI AREA! If one of the 22's we have at work gets whacked I think I'll take it apart and see what can be done about that.

A little bit more volume for alarms wouldn't hurt, and make the volume adjustments a slider, and not just high, medium, and low.

66MHz would be ideal. No MP3's, no camera's, no moving parts, no fluff, no problems. OS5.0 if necessary.

Bob

 

Bob, you're right on...  faster processor, louder alarms, illuminated grafitti area (even if only with tiny "markers"), and enlarge the rocker switch.  BTW, I use my SJ20 to read in the dark quite often. 

The only disagreement I have with you is over the recess of the hardware buttons.  Think about how many third-party programs exist for the sole purpose of keeping your handheld from "accidentally" turning on in a case/pocket...  Having said that; why do you think Sony went with recessed buttons on the SJ series?  It was that, or suffer the endless complains of short battery life, and accidental turn-ons.  Given the alternatives, I would have designed it the same way Sony did.

 

[palmgeek]

Originally posted by madmaxmedia
... My point is not that the SJ33 is not a great PDA, it is. I was just wondering what Sony will do next.

Undoubtedly... raise the price...  :-(

[madmaxmedia]

Originally posted by TechnoCat
If it has an ARM, it will almost certainly be the same one in their other OS5s, which would mean 200MHz.

The SJ is not a premium line, so it wouldn't likely have more RAM than the TG/NX series. And probably not the bigger screen due to price; remember it's basically the entry level line for Sony.

So my guess would be basically the SJ33 with 200MHz, OS5, and one feature you didn't mention... a lower price than the Z71 of maybe $250 list.

Don't think of it as a must-be-killer PDA; it's the gateway drug, with the hope that some fraction will get addicted and quickly move up to the NX series.

That's a very good idea- pricing at $250 to beat the Zire 71. However, I wonder if Sony would rather add a new feature to keep the price (and margins) up. Something like a voice recorder perhaps.

You're right about the RAM though, it won't have more than the TG or NX models (the next versions of those could have more memory, but the TG just came out.)

[Bison]

Bigger screen, flip cover, thin form, more memory. Yep, that about does it. Oh...VG of course! :) I've been waiting for this since the rumors started about the SJ22. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my SJ30, but was just hoping the SJ22 would be an improvement. Wrong.

-Bison

[TechnoCat]

Originally posted by Bison
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my SJ30, but was just hoping the SJ22 would be an improvement. Wrong.By what metric is the SJ22 not an improvement? It costs the same as it's predecessor, the SJ20, did when fresh ($200) but it added 65K color, Clie Mail, and a much better package on CD (including more trial-ware, which you may not value but the entry-level neophyte the SJ-22 is aimed at might.)

[palmgeek]

In all fairness, the SJ22 *really* replaced the SJ30, and Sony just dropped the SJ20 completely.

[Bison]

Originally posted by palmgeek
In all fairness, the SJ22 *really* replaced the SJ30, and Sony just dropped the SJ20 completely.

Exactly!:D

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by palmgeek
In all fairness, the SJ22 *really* replaced the SJ30, and Sony just dropped the SJ20 completely.
Depends on how you look at it. From the pricing structure, the SJ22 replaces the SJ20. Feature-wise, it replaces the SJ30.

[bgreschke]

Originally posted by palmgeek


 

The only disagreement I have with you is over the recess of the hardware buttons.  Think about how many third-party programs exist for the sole purpose of keeping your handheld from "accidentally" turning on in a case/pocket...  Having said that; why do you think Sony went with recessed buttons on the SJ series?  It was that, or suffer the endless complains of short battery life, and accidental turn-ons.  Given the alternatives, I would have designed it the same way Sony did.

 

I didn't mean sticking up so far that they keep getting bumped and turning the unit on -- we'll leave that function up to the Zire 71 and that STUPID joystick :) -- I meant just not recessed as much as the SJ-33 buttons are. They are a little hard to press with your fingers. The original and Palm III buttons were just about right. The buttons on the HandEra 330 were also concave so you could push them with the stylus.

Bob

[Unregistered]

Will pay between $259 to $399

for a Clie with

1. Intel PXa255 (Repligo is slow in SJ22)
2. MSPro for faster Disk access. (another $149 for 256Meg)
3. Bluetooth for my Cell (Ericsson T68i), headphone. and uWave-oven
4. Better screen than SJ22/33. Meaning, slightly bigger
4. Sound I/O is not a necessity but can be added.

Thanks

Ike Lang

[TechnoCat]

Originally posted by Unregistered
Will pay between $259 to $399

for a Clie with

1. Intel PXa255 (Repligo is slow in SJ22)
2. MSPro for faster Disk access. (another $149 for 256Meg)
3. Bluetooth for my Cell (Ericsson T68i), headphone. and uWave-oven
4. Better screen than SJ22/33. Meaning, slightly bigger
4. Sound I/O is not a necessity but can be added.
Sounds like the TG50. Okay, you don't like the keyboard, but it has all the other bits, no?

[Mastervtec]

Originally posted by TechnoCat
Sounds like the TG50. Okay, you don't like the keyboard, but it has all the other bits, no?

No, the Tg50 screen is slightly smaller than the sj22/33

[Jeffry]

I HIGHLY doubt that the next SJ replacement have a VG area.

[legohead]

Best MS attachment would be one of those eyeglasses type screens like IBM had showed on their commercials once upon a time with those waist-mounted computers.

[Ike Lang]

I have just got a Sony DSC-P8 for $399 plus tax (8.25%). (from CC)

Now I am waiting for a PDA to view my Pictures and movies


Clie with -320Xy80, pxa255, >16Meg , Movie Player and MS PRO

Sony can remove "docs to go" and other third party software
to save cost

[asterisk]

the whole idea of the SL/SJ series is to keep things fairly simple and cheap if you're looking for tons of special fearures you'd be better advised to look at a more advanced series:rolleyes: .

[Ni+Mh]

I pray hard that Sony will come out with something new.They've suddenly gone slow and nothing new comes out.I've currently switched to a Palm Zirew 71 due to it's value for money,but my comeback for Sony is destined!One fine day I'll get a Clie again!

[Mastervtec]

Sony has gone slow???? UMMMMM SJ33 TG50 SJ22, by no means, 3 pda's with in a month of eachother is not SLOW...IMHO

[milkytooth]

VG has to be there. This is the only element I ask for.

[NekoKawaii]

I've got an SJ33 right now, but I'd willingly trade the earphone jack for VG.

My dream clie, take the SJ33 and give it:
* A 320x480 screen with VG.
* Bluetooth built in.
* Bump up the memory. Certainly with the SJ series being the more modest end of the clie model line it won't likely be a maxing out, but how about a doubling of the current 16MB to 32MB.
* Either replace the current battery with a higher capacity one, or have two of the batteries in there. (Or while I'm dreaming of more battery capacity, why not do like some of the mini-disc players Sony has put out. Both a proprietary not-normally-removed flat rechargable battery, and a spot for a single AA battery.)
* Either make it just a little thinner, or if keeping it the same thickness squeeze the above mentioned additional battery power in.

That's pretty much in order of desire. Although if I could only have two then the 320x480 and the additional built in RAM.

I'm going to risk a prediction though and say that I think Sony has either already released it's last non-Bluetooth clie, or that if the next round of models includes some without Bluetooth then they will be the last ones. Sure BT has been slow getting to market, but then so is most anything else no matter what the marketing hype tries to claim will happen. I'll hazard a further guess and state that either this year or next the high-end home electronics will start using BT remotes.

Bluetooth was certainly over-hyped at when it was first announced. That's nothing new. USB, Firewire, 56k modems, VGA monitors (Notice that later improvements like XGA no longer get to take over the namespace, and have been rolled in with VGA?), and the Apple //E were all supposed to balance our checkbooks, wash our cars, and teach the neighborhood kids Latin and Japanese inbetween solving world hunger and negotiating an end to all wars.

But when you roll away all the hype Bluetooth as it works past its growing pains does have a nitch to fill. I like the idea of being able to sync my clie simply by tapping on the HotSync icon, or downloading the pictures from my digital camera by simply choosing File --> Import --> Steve's Camera in Photoshop. There are already way to many wires tangled into a mass around my computers, and BT (And 802.11, but they have different roles to play) can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned.

[X Destruction]

I say if you want all those specs, go to best buy/frys and get the NX60 or TG50. The NX60 is $299 now (same as the SJ33) because it's discontinued. The TG50 is a great machine at $399, I got it because they don't have that NX60 deal in Canada and the T-Series Form Factor (sooooo thin!), I haven't even used bluetooth.

[hydra]

I have been using an SJ22 since March, and it is my first pda. I have been interested in them for some time and have followed most of the palm os and pocket pc related products and news. I spent $200 bucks on the SJ22 from Best Buy and approximately 1 month later the Palm Zire 71 came out. Now, I didn't pay $300 for the SJ33 or other more expensive options, partly because I wanted to "ease" into it. I have been happy with my SJ22, but seeing the Zire 71 made me think about possible future upgrades (I think of have caught some type of contagious technology virus).

I agree with most of the suggested upgrades, and my list is as follows (albeit in its formative stages).

- 320X480 Screen
- Faster Processor
- More Internal Memory
- 2 MS Pro Compatible Slots
- Palm OS 5
- BT for wireless connectivity to a similarly enabled phone
- Four way controller
- Camera

I really don't see all this happening in the next SJ, but for me this represents everything I currently want in a PDA (who knows what the future will bring). I just hope some of these will be incorporated into the next SJ or some equivalent from Sony.

[orol]

my perfect palm would be an palm os 5 sj sersies with bluetooth with the same paramters as sj has (size, screen, no hires+) ..
to me the sizes really matters ..

[UZI4U182]

SJ30 form factor (silver color and all) with OS 5, more memory, mp3 player, OS 5, 300MHz PXA255.

[Richard681]

I like SL10,but hate the screen(silver),and the processor is not fast enough.so my requirement as follow:
1.a screen of color
2.faster Processor(200-400MHz)
3.two MS slot(if possbie)
4.better battery(I like dry battery)
5.more internal memory
6.camera

I hope the next SJ will conclude all of the thing above,if it comes ture,I am sure I will buy(The Price?????)

[blinks]

Originally posted by palmgeek
SJ40 should have a Motocross dirt bike built in! That way, you could listen to MP3's while jumping berms.

Seriously, it's a PDA! I carry it for dates and numbers. The calulator comes in handy sometimes (Kalk, RPN). And, as long as I can carry documents (QuickOffice), spreadsheets (Tinysheet), and a database (SmartList to Go), I'm happy. For those who want an over-priced. useless, toy - they should switch to a Pocket PC, or get a Game Boy.

You dont jump berms silly, you use them to corner sharper, silly geek!!

[palmgeek]

Originally posted by blinks


You dont jump berms silly, you use them to corner sharper, silly geek!!

...guess I'm just a squirrel, when it comes to riding my new SJ (with built-in dirt bike)...

[sigelang]

Of course, no more PXA250.


1. KB optional
2. Camera optional
3.Hardcase optional.
4. Wi-FI optional.

This for me is a must.

1. Bigger screen
2.Two MSPro slot
3.>= 32M of Memory
4.Replaceable LI Battery.
5. Video I/O

[kalashu]

Well, the S series are mutating quite fast. Also remember that these series is for entry/mid level and testing ground too.

What will it have:

- Color Screen (320x320)
- ARM processor (200 MHz maybe 300 MHz)
- 1 MSPRO slot (probably)
- 64 MB RAM
- 8 MB ROM (maybe 16 but I won't bet on it)
- OS 5.12

What it won't have:

- Keyboard (it's for T&N series only)
- BlueTooth (the same)
- Camera (it's for N series only)
- WiFi (they sell WiFi cards don't they and if u wanna go WiFi get a real toy)
- Cradle
- CF card slot

It's a small chance that it will have 2 MS slots, 1 for camera, BlueTooth, GPS, etc, and one for memory. This possibility comes from the fact that they also want to sell accessories.

The big screen is also an option, but it will rise the price. Big screen means less pocketable (increased fragility) less space for buttons. If it will have big screen maybe we will see some strange buttons too (to boost game controllers sale). A good screen, fast processor, plenty of RAM and a few good games can rise game console sales to the sky.

What it should have is a big LiPolymer battery, 'cuz this beast is gonna be hungry. Also hard plastic cover is welcome, but something you clip on not with hinges.

One final thought,
The CF card slot on NZ&NX series was a curious move from SONY, if they will start to manufacture CF cards I will say it was smart, otherwise that WiFi could be easily integrated into CLIE without addition of CF card slot. Probably they thought of it that it will help increase sales of these expensive devices, maybe it did, but for the people this device is intended to, the existing CD card slot or its lack means no big deal. Instead I would add an extra MS slot.

[Unregistered]

Got it!

[asterisk]

Originally posted by Mastervtec
Sony has gone slow???? UMMMMM SJ33 TG50 SJ22, by no means, 3 pda's with in a month of eachother is not SLOW...IMHO

Sony moves at hyper speed compared to palm:D

[Richard681]

I hope the price of the new SONY Clie was low,or I won't buy it
(Although it is perfect)

[Richard681]

My request is low:
1.Play Movies
2.Play Musics
3.Play Games
4.Play Photos
5.Play movie clips
6.Play StarCraft
7.
8.
-------------------

[palmgeek]

Originally posted by Richard681
My request is low:
1.Play Movies
2.Play Musics
3.Play Games
4.Play Photos
5.Play movie clips
6.Play StarCraft
7.
8.
-------------------

It's already available... it's called a L-A-P-T-O-P.

[milkytooth]

1. VG
2. Good speed
3. Radio
4. Forget the camera and keyboard

[sigelang]

PDA

[petraman]

Originally posted by milkytooth

4. Forget the camera and keyboard

I think that the camera sucks, but definitley keep the keyboard.  If not, put one of those Fitaly ones in it

 

[palmgeek]

I thought the original thread was "Ideas for next SJ CLIE".

Many of these wild suggestions are, for the most part, already available in the high-end (i.e. N series) Clies. Have people lost focus here? If Sony puts keyboards, and cameras, and radios, and all kinds of other crazy junk on the next SJ models, how will you tell the SJ apart from the N series?

What about the folks who fell in love with the SJ because it fits *easily* into a pocket? What about those who bought their SJ for its *PDA* abilities, and don't care to carry a portable entertainment center? Are we going to get stuck with laptop-sized PDAs instead?

I better take *good* care of my SJ20. It looks like it might be the last of the truly portable PDAs. In which case, I'll want to keep it around for a long time.

[sigelang]

GETTING A SIMPLE AND VIRTUALLY INDESTRUCTIBLE PDA

[legohead]

sigelang...


This is for you- though you may have to pass on portability.

http://www.executivepda.com/HTML/Products/pdaaccessories/cases/hardcases2.htm

Now you could play football with your 'simple' PDA too. The down-side- your PDA would be the size of a football! :D

[madmaxmedia]

I would just be happy with OS 5 and new processor, and 32 MB RAM. OS 5 would mean MS Pro support. Oh, a screen to match the Zire 71 would be nice but not completely necessary.

That would be great for me, no sliding case or camera, just a nice, fast, compact PDA.

[Ezikial Anta]

Heh all this talk and the NX at 300 just go get one of those lol

[madmaxmedia]

Those are cool, but too big for me.

[sigelang]

I will check first the dimension of my dream PDA before getting
one of those.

[sigelang]

one of the option is a parachute for drop protection.

[palmgeek]

Might as well just buy another PDA, for that price!