Let's admit it... the CF driver kinda sucks.

[Sombrio]

OK I don't want to start a flame war with this, but I would like to see people's opinions. After using the CF driver for a little while, I have to say that it's pretty disappointing.

Now, that said, I will explain why I find that. It's basically the speed. There are other issues of course, like the fact that it's a bit of a pain that to really use the CF card, you need to be in masquerade mode if you want to use any of the sony apps (audioplayer, picture taker, movie player, etc), but because the driver doesn't support taking pictures or movies properly yet, you need to switch out of this mode, (soft reset... wait wait....), then take your picture.

Back to the speed issue though. I could get over the issues of not being able to use the native apps without going in and out of masquerade mode, if I could simply use the CF card as a backup for media. For example, if I could have a 256 card, with a few MP3 albums on it. It would be cool if you kept one album at a time on your MS, then copied albums over from the CF card as you needed them. Right now, sitting for 15-30 minutes while the album copies over, does not really make this a viable option in the long run. That time really cuts into your mp3 playing time when you're on a long trip.

Right now, unless Eruware really kicks in a develops this driver further, I feel a little bit disappointed by the driver overall. I'm grateful that someone stepped forward and did finally develop one, surely, but the job as it stands feels only half finished. There hasn't been much out of Eruware to address some of these issues since they opened the floodgates to let the money in.

I know the "trick" mentioned elsewhere in the forums addresses some of the issues (at least it helps with mp3 playing) but it is a workaround that Eruware should have jumped on the chance to fix to show that they're dedicted to supporting their product. We should have to hack our way into basic functionality.

What do other people think?

[Blazefire]

Well, the 'trick' involves a physical process, so unless you want to wait for Ayasin to come to your house to pull out your MS and put it back in everytime you want both slots to be recognized, there's really not much that can be done on this front. I doubt there's really that much that can be done from a programming perspective, but I could be wrong.

As for the driver itself, I'm don't like the masquerading mode either, but I live with it. The transfer speeds really can't be changed as they are basically limited by the hardwares specs, not drivers.

[*YellowRose*]

Originally posted by Sombrio
OK I don't want to start a flame war with this . . .

What do other people think? Well, I think that your intention was to start a flamewar, since it's the first thing you said . . . but that's just what I think (since you asked).

Don't like it? Don't use it. Pretty simple.

[qurgh]

I think it's an amazing piece of work, considering 3 weeks ago you couldn't even read a compact flash card on a clie.

The speed of the CF is limited to the card and the slot. That isn't anything Eruware can do anything about.

The MS Masquarading mode was a stroke of genius, since the built in apps were designed to only work with the memory stick.

Remember, the driver only makes the slot avalible. Thats all a driver can do, drive hardware devices. How the programs on that device access the hardware is up to software programmer, not the driver programmer.

Sounds like your problems are all Sony caused problems (CF speed - Sony hardware, built-in apps - Coded by Sony to only use the MS)

Before you go attacking the company that made is possible to even read an mp3 from a CF card on a Sony Clie, make sure they are actually the people who have made your problems.

Eruware have opened a door for us, a door that was recently closed and locked. We have only taken the first few steps through this door. Unless you wish to run through the door and take the lead by coding all new built-in application replacements that are CF slot capatable then I suggest you have patience. In another 3 weeks who knows what we will have to play with.

[cliener]

Its been out a whole week and the critics are already complaining...it can't do this, it can't do that and Eruware should do this, they should do that. You want it done your way? Write one yourself, and then market it for around $27.00. I don't think they are getting rich, and I don't think they have forgotten their clie companions. Everyone waited for this driver for a long, long time. Apparently some just so they could have something to complain about. I agree, you don't like it??? Don't use it.

[BClie2k]

The compact flash driver is just an awesome milestone for Palms in general. It isn't perfect yet, but I know EruWare is working as we speak on an update for the first released.

I think Eruware was right when they said that they needed more time to complete the driver, but many people were pushing them to release it even if it was not finished.

The question is, would you rather use it as it is or have waited a couple of weeks more?

Eruware has promised to release more updates for the Compact Flash driver and I believe them. We just have to keep reporting our findings and bugs, so they can find a solution.

This is not the end for the Compact Flash drivers, so don't assume that this is the final result of this driver.

For now, we can just have fun with what we have so far, which is great,

Al

[Sombrio]

Originally posted by qurgh

The speed of the CF is limited to the card and the slot. That isn't anything Eruware can do anything about.


I understand that. My comment is directed more to the fact that it "is" slow, and therefor it's not a great alternative to use the CF card as a means of storing extra music which you can copy back and forth to the MS. I wasn't exactly asking for something to be done about it, just stating that it wasn't something that people who haven't tried to driver yet should expect to do.

...

Eruware have opened a door for us, a door that was recently closed and locked. We have only taken the first few steps through this door....

Yes, I agree that they have opened a door for us, that's great. I'm not saying people shouldn't buy it, I [am] saying, however, that people who haven't bought the driver should know what to expect. As things are now, it may not be very useful for the average user. It has it's uses, but it's certainly no MS replacement.

There's a lot of hype around the driver. I too am glad it was developed, but I simply hope Eruware doesn't loose interest in its development.

[n2ifp]

Sombrio,

Well, you are entitled to your opinion and I appreciate that you didn't hide behind as unregistered. I don't take your post as being flaming or vengeful. I can't disagree that there is a few warts. For some though it's a lifesaver and it's something we didn't or maybe never would have had. BTW, as others have pointed out, a lot depends on no help from Sony and hardware limitations. EruWare is kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. Some demanded it now and wanted it, even if it wasn't quite perfect! Then there was piracy issues, so a decision was made to open it to the public. I am sure within time improvements will be made to optimize and find solutions to any short comings. I the meantime, most will have some functionality that was not available to them before.

It's the same old story, what is garbage to one man is a treasure to another.

Thank you for sharing!

[pusfarm]

Originally posted by Sombrio
OK I don't want to start a flame war with this....

Yeah, whateva.

Adding his post count to the "tactful" nature of his post, I'd guess he's here because he got kicked off another board for being a troll.

[ErnieB]

Many PocketPCs make excellent use of a CF card.  I'm not saying you should switch to PocketPC, but if having a fully functional CF card is important, than PocketPC is the way to go.

Of course, you'll have to sacrifice everything a Clie brings to the table, but at least your CF card dream will be realized.

[dsilver]

Originally posted by pusfarm


Yeah, whateva.

Adding his post count to the "tactful" nature of his post, I'd guess he's here because he got kicked off another board for being a troll.

So, stating nice to know facts in a non-confrontational way is not forum correct behavior? I find that a bit strange. Any product can be discussed "quietly" from a variety of perspectives. I found the original post to be informational and I would guess other pre-purchasers may find the same thing. Personally, I feel that knowing a product's limitations before purchasing (especially if it's commercial- ware as opposed to shareware) helps me to spend my money more judiciously. I've been a shareware supporter for many years and never complain about a product I've had an opportunity to trial before buying. Since the memory stick works well enough for me, and since prices have dropped, I believe I'll wait until enough developmental progess has been made that the CF becomes more like the MS in its transparency. Just one man's opinion. I'm getting the impression that any criticism or discussion of the driver's limitations is verboten. That's just silly in an open forum.

[Tixx]

There is nothing wrong with Sombrio's post. It's great to see people like pusfarm that start childish name calling for no apparent reason. Ironic how the name caller, in name calling, becomes that very name they called;)

There are issues with the driver such as some speed and convenience. It is a great app and needs some work still as is apparent around this entire board. This is for the benefit of the developers that these issues are discussed so that they may better their product with greater accuracy and input. Hey, don't talk about the issues and maybe they will just go away:rolleyes: And don't talk about them so the developer does not know what his customer base wants:rolleyes: There is something called constructive criticism and people need to learn it betters our world on a daily basis.

[GANZ]

It just came out...give it some time. Any first edition from cars to cameras are usually a bit buggy. I'm waiting happily with my 512 MS Pro until all you smarties figure out the CF driver issues then I'll take a looksee. :D

[Alistar]

Personally I love it. I admit it is slower with the built in media apps, but heck I can live with some of that for 1 Gig of cheap MP3 storage.

[qurgh]

There is also talk of a 3rd party mp3 player coming out. We already have a 3rd party video player. Hopefully, over time as Sony releases more API information, the built in applications will be replaced with ones that work better with CF cards.

All in all, we will have to wait and see what happens. We waited for the CF driver and it came. Yes it might not be perfect, but for me it does the job very well. I wanted something to store movies on as I don't listen to mp3s very often. A cheap and slow CF card does that perfectly well.

ARM based clies have only been out for a short while in the history of PDAs. We have jumped one hurdle and hopefully we will jump move of them.

It is kind of funny. A month ago no one would have complained about how slow the CF slot was. I wonder whay the complaint will be in another month or two.

[yawn]

Thanks to those of you who do not find open and honest discussion of a product threatening. It gives those of us who have not made a decision about a product a clearer view of both sides of the opinion coin.

Name calling and being told to not buy it if we don't like it is not helpful to anyone. With no trial period, not buying it is not an option to find out if one finds it beneficial or not. The less than early adopters must base that decision on the critiques of others.

Why is it when someone has a differing opinion they frequently are slapped with the very hackneyed label of "troll" ??? Admittedly, a different subject line might have avoided some of the emotive reactions.

[n2ifp]

Originally posted by yawn
Thanks to those of you who do not find open and honest discussion of a product threatening. It gives those of us who have not made a decision about a product a clearer view of both sides of the opinion coin.

Name calling and being told to not buy it if we don't like it is not helpful to anyone. With no trial period, not buying it is not an option to find out if one finds it beneficial or not. The less than early adopters must base that decision on the critiques of others.

Why is it when someone has a differing opinion they frequently are slapped with the very hackneyed label of "troll" ??? Admittedly, a different subject line might have avoided some of the emotive reactions.

I agree, I believe he was sincere in his post, but the subject line could have been worded better :). It all boils down to respect and sincerity. Unfortunately there are a few who love to troll too :(!

[mrbjg4]

Memory sticks aren't so bad huh?

[Reggie]

Originally posted by n2ifp
... the subject line could have been worded better :). It all boils down to respect and sincerity.

I agree. There are a lot of members who were involved in the beta testing of the driver, who worked hard to bring to everyone a 'good enough' product. Like most have said, this is the first version of the driver, imagine what the driver will be like by version 10. :D If you purchase the driver, you'll get a lifetime upgrade anyway.

This thread reminds me of the Dixie Chicks issue. LOL.

[qurgh]

This thread reminds me of the Dixie Chicks issue. LOL

Huh? If you register a dixie chick you get free lifetime upgrades and who knows what the next version will hold? :P

[wbdjr]

The driver works well for me -- the eBook readers I use (MobiPocket, PalmReader, TealDoc) all support multiple cards and work perfectly with the driver, no masquerading mode requires.

There are some warts with some of the (poorly written) Sony apps....but then again I've found the Sony apps to be poorly designed anyway. Too many obscure unlabled buttons. Sony needs to work with Apple on their interface design. Apple makes good looking, clear and FUNCTIONAL interfaces. Sony just throws a buncha buttons around and calls it an interface. NOT!

Hopefully we can replace the Sony provided apps over time with others. Not sure if that'll be possible with the camera-related ones, but we'll see.

I look forward with bated breath to the first CF driver update to see how Eruware reacts to people's expectations and reactions to 1.0 of their driver.

[MythoFactory]

I kind of bought the CF driver just to see, and to support eruware's work. If it isn't perfect, at least it's a start. Hope it will make some Sony programmers move their a** to make intelligent apps for once. Audioplayer is one of the most badly designed app know of!

[markogin]

I support 100% SOMBRIO. I think he just posted his opinion and, has he said, he didn't want to start a flame war. He wrote his impression about the driver in a very honest way so that other people like us that don't have the driver yet could know more about it. I think that whoever takes it bad just want to find an excuse to have an argument with somebody. I don't find his post offensive for Eruware or negative, just a honest opinion, thanks SOMBRIO.

Marco

[OcellNuri]

I'd love to see more posts like Sombrio's. It is stimulating real discussion, not just name calling like we see so much here.

I agree that in it's current form, the driver is not totally transparent to the user, and still has some issues to work through before it is the perfect solution. It is, in fact, A solution though, and has been wonderful to play with. Just being able to store images, apps, and databases on it has freed up a ton of room on my MS. Room that I can now use for video recording and mp3s.

[tpilcher]

I also appreciate the tone, and the information, provided in the last set of posts here.

I have not bought a CF card & the EruWare driver... yet. Had I bought one the other day, I would have intended to use it to store MP3s. The information that this is one of the things the current driver/software do not handle so well has made me decide to wait for a few weeks/months to see how the driver software and alternative MP3 players are developed.

Had I *NOT* know this, and popped for a 1gig IBM CF and the driver, I would have been VERY disappointed!

Again, thanks for the rational discussion. Not sure why people are so defensive about their CF slots...

TP

[yawn]

Again, thanks for the rational discussion. Not sure why people are so defensive about their CF slots...

When you figure that one out you can let us all know :). I have noticed that people have their favorite ClieSource causes/topics. Some who are quick to take offensive on this particular topic considering it a personal insult to a company they are fond of are also quick to vehemently criticize a product or another developer whose product and/or customer service they don't like.

I think it is just human nature.

[Tixx]

Originally posted by tpilcher
I also appreciate the tone, and the information, provided in the last set of posts here.

I have not bought a CF card & the EruWare driver... yet. Had I bought one the other day, I would have intended to use it to store MP3s. The information that this is one of the things the current driver/software do not handle so well has made me decide to wait for a few weeks/months to see how the driver software and alternative MP3 players are developed.

Had I *NOT* know this, and popped for a 1gig IBM CF and the driver, I would have been VERY disappointed!

Again, thanks for the rational discussion. Not sure why people are so defensive about their CF slots...

TP

This stuff does help:) Grrr, bad you for pointing out an issue that sould be addressed (insert name calling word here)*LOL*:D

[charlie4n6]

I think the best part of this driver is that its strengths and limitations have been pretty well documented.

All in all it does what it was advertized to do... Allow access to the CF slot for memory storage.

To me, this has been more about the process than the outcome. Clie users want to know how much utility we can get out of an unsupported SONY wifi slot. We may not wind up liking the final answers, but it will be interesting to see how far Eruware can push the envelope. I like playing MP3's on the CF card and more importantly i think they should be rewarded for the time and effort to understand the Clie hardware.

Their success might be encouraging to other developers. GBA emulator anyone...... :)

"You may find that having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting. This is not logical, but it is often true." -- Spock (Amok Time)

[Manical]

All I know is that it adds to the function of the CF slot.

It is better than not having use of the slot at all.

[donaldekelly]

tpilcher said

" I have not bought a CF card & the EruWare driver... yet. Had I bought one the other day, I would have intended to use it to store MP3s. The information that this is one of the things the current driver/software do not handle so well has made me decide to wait for a few weeks/months to see how the driver software and alternative MP3 players are developed.

Had I *NOT* know this, and popped for a 1gig IBM CF and the driver, I would have been VERY disappointed! "


I did buy the driver and a 1GB card mostly to play mp3s. I am a little dissapointed so far, but hopefully I will learn how to remember how to set up trick mode, and I will figure out why the clie then needs a soft reset to access the datebook, and I will figure out why the mp3s got named wrong.

A lot to learn, but I understand the constraints. Euroware is giving us what we wanted as best as they can, I believe.

Maybe in a few days I won't be disappointed. Actually I am not all that disappointed yet - maybe in a few days I will be.

--------------
A half hour and another thread in this forum later - not disappointed at all - see below!

[Tixx]

I'm interested to see what the updates are going to be like. I'm optomistic, thought we have heard little from the developer lately. Probably needs a break from all this:)

[spereira82]

I have an NZ...a 256 MS pro, and a 256 Viking CF card. I don't have any options set in CF Utility. I only wanted the CF card to keep my library of Ebooks and PalmReader Pro has no problem checking both cards.

I have noticed no speed difference using any feature of PalmReader Pro. The only thing I have to remember is to mount the card after a soft reset. And Zlauncher does the reminding because in automatically sticks a tab on the desktop for the CF card. If it's missing, mount the card. So in all, I am really happy with the driver.

[donaldekelly]

Sucks? I just read on clie source about getting the NX to recognize both MS and CF at same time. I now have 1GB of music files and memory stick available - they both work!

Sony + Eruware + Clie Source = :)

[mportuesi]

As a pre-purchaser myself, I'm glad to read any kind of criticism of the CF driver. Nothing is perfect, and I'd rather hear about the warts before I buy. Also, I don't think the original post was inflammatory at all. It read like an honest criticism to me.

In another thread on this forum, there was a discussion about whether CF or MS Pro made more sense. That thread was hands-down in favor of CF over MS Pro. After reading this thread, maybe I'm not so sure. At least not until Eruware fixes some more flaws in their driver.

(Specifically, it would be great if both the still image and movie recorder apps could write to CF, and masquerading mode improved so that you don't need the CF/MS swap trick to use both)

So, I'll wait to see if Eruware updates the driver before I buy.

[GeekGod]

You know, before the driver was officially released there were a few threads with rather heated debates about why the driver was not released yet. A lot of people said they would gladly take the driver in beta form.

And now that the driver is out, there are people complaining about it not being perfect (and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't some of the same people).

Most of the known issues with the driver were documented, and people looking for the "perfect" driver should/could have waited a bit and gathered some more info before deciding to buy. Info about the good and bad flowed in here very quickly and a little research should give anyone enough info to make and informed decision about purchasing it, even without a trial version.

I don't even have an NX/NZ and I bought the driver just to play with it at work (I have access to both at work). To me $27 didn't seem like that big a deal. So far I'm pretty impressed. It's not perfect, but it is a FIRST release and should get better with time. But even in its current state it is temptimg me to upgrade my NR to an NX.

BTW: How did EruWare come up with that price? Seems a bit of an odd number? Why not $25 or $30? Just curious...

Aloha, GG

[kdn102]

It was originally going to be $25.  Then when it came time to release they ran into financial problems with distributing the software I believe (maybe they forgot to factor in the paypal fees!)

Originally posted by GeekGod
BTW: How did EruWare come up with that price? Seems a bit of an odd number? Why not $25 or $30? Just curious...

Aloha, GG

[kdn102]

The problem with this is that there is no trial version.  However like it was said before the uses/limitations are clearly stated on their website.

Originally posted by *YellowRose*
Well, I think that your intention was to start a flamewar, since it's the first thing you said . . . but that's just what I think (since you asked).

Don't like it? Don't use it. Pretty simple.

[Joel]

Originally posted by donaldekelly

...
Sony + Eruware + Clie Source = :)

How about:
Sony + Eruware + ClieSource = :cool:

:D thanks!

[ashVID]

The CF driver is no different than the keyboard, the jog dial, the wifi card etc. To some it is a lifesaver, to others, a waste. I think we ALL agree that at this point it all boils down to cost. We want multimedia and a 1gb MS is $500 while a 1gb CF AND the driver are only $200. If they were both the same, most people would choose the MS...



ash =o)

[Brownster]

Well actually, if they were they same, I would still want CF. My camera uses CF memory. Which is probably why Sony didn't offer a driver....they want me to buy their camera, videocam, handheld, notebook...on and on.

Jim

[donaldekelly]

If they both cost the same I would still want the compact flash card - so I have two slots that I can use (Storage and blue tooth for example).

[cliener]

I am still debating over whether to buy it or not...overall I am impressed by the reviews (pretty much good) despite the postings that haven't been constructively critical. I don't think saying anything "sucks" is constructive. The rest of the post seemed to point more to Sonys applications, hardware than to the driver though. I am new to the clie community...does Sony listen when you complain about how their stuff works??? Have they responded with upgrades in a very short time??? Do they have someone read through the posts and are they part of your community? Eruware posts what the driver is supposed to be used for/what it is developed to do on their websites. Do they read what is posted here in an effort to respond to their clie community? I have read several postings from ayasin throughout the release as well as the staff at Cliesource. (thanks for that btw). I don't think anyone is lying about what to expect and I think if upgrades are expected then you should let the developer know...and if it is to be of any quality like the initial product you should give them a little time to do that. My 2 cents.:)

[benixau]

Also you can buy CF adapters for almost all other formats. Meaning that for a few dollars you can use any type of card you please on your Clie as long as it is a memeory card. That is where the drives kick in. Scenario:

Palm -> Clie

Palm uses SD. Clie uses MS. How ?????
Buy CF driver for Clie ($27)
Buy CF adapter for SD ($30)
Put SD card in Clie (Free)
~~Total Cost = $57 vs [how much for a MS????]

Now you can use your SD card and not have to buy another card. Or you can keep using more SD cards if, for example, you DVC or DSC use it.

[Winca]

Originally posted by Sombrio
OK I don't want to start a flame war with this, but

Blah Blah Blah

What do other people think?

I think your suck-o-meter is busted.

If you think you can do a better job, then by all means, go ahead and do it!

Amir Yasin has repeatedly stated that upgrades are in the works.

Tell me, would you rather wait six more months for a finished product when the new NX iteration is out, or would you rather him release it as he actually did, with limited functionality?

[n2ifp]

Originally posted by Brownster
Well actually, if they were they same, I would still want CF. My camera uses CF memory. Which is probably why Sony didn't offer a driver....they want me to buy their camera, videocam, handheld, notebook...on and on.

Jim

I think it's short sighted on Sony's part. Maybe people with other brand cameras would buy the Clie because they could use the CF slot. We need to change Sony's thinking and educate them :)!

[Tixx]

I actually took the driver off this morning and am going to wait for updates as this is too inconvenient for me to use at the moment. I really hope they are out there listening because i now have spent cash on a CF card, reader and the program with only finding out known issues after the purchase.

[CliePet]

> OK I don't want to start a flame war with this

Hard to avoid it with a topic like this and a title like that ;->

Remember the topic - pent up demand, beta quality, only $27

> but I would like to see people's opinions. After using the CF driver for a little while, I have to say that it's pretty disappointing.

If this were the final release of the driver - I would agree with you.

The bugs and lack of polish are to be expected - since you are essentially buying a beta. Many people asked to buy the beta warts and all -- sometimes you get what you ask for ;->

I'm a little disappointed that the updates were apparently coming quickly before the product was sold -- now I don't see any bug fix releases ;-<

----

The general speed is disappointing - but could be predicted (and was in another thread)

With a cheap CF card, it can run slower than a memory stick.
With a faster CF card, you can beat the memory stick.

But faster CF cards cost more $$$ - and people looking for something that is cheaper and faster than a plain old memory stick may be disappointed.

[mportuesi]

Originally posted by CliePet
I'm a little disappointed that the updates were apparently coming quickly before the product was sold -- now I don't see any bug fix releases ;-<


Exactly, which is why I'm waiting to see some updates before I buy. I'd like to see which things can/will be fixed by Eruware, and which ones are limitations of the Clie hardware and software. For instance, it might be possible to improve the speed in a driver update, but it might not. Maybe it's possible to get MS and CF together without Trick Mode? Who knows - not me, certainly.

Right now, I think I'd rather sit and wait for MS Pro prices to drop, though I may end up getting the CF driver simply so I can use my old 128 MB Sandisk card for ebooks or something.

[aussie_nx70v]

human nature.......

we all want something to come out as quick as possible and complain that it hasnt come out yet, only to complain when it does come out that its not as good as they wanted it.

tell you what people. what until sony releases the cf driver. they will you know.........when hell freezes over

[CliePet]

> though I may end up getting the CF driver simply so I can use my old 128 MB Sandisk card for ebooks or something.

Not just to pick on you - but why ?

128MB memory sticks are cheap (around $30 after rebates these days). If you shop around, they are about the same price (per byte) as normal CF cards.

If you don't need very large single cards (512MB or 1GB) or the extra speed of a faster and more expensive CF card - then memory sticks are still the best bet.

----
IMHO, the reason to go through the extra expense and the hassle of the (current) CF driver is to do NEW things you can't do with a normal memory stick - like moving in photos from a non-Sony camera, or using faster CF cards or ...

So this goes back to the main complaint. If people are expecting something with the polish, price and ease of a memory stick - then buy a memory stick (ie. regular stick which are relatively cheap, not MSPro)

[n2ifp]

Originally posted by CliePet
&gt; though I may end up getting the CF driver simply so I can use my old 128 MB Sandisk card for ebooks or something.

Not just to pick on you - but why ?

128MB memory sticks are cheap (around $30 after rebates these days). If you shop around, they are about the same price (per byte) as normal CF cards.

If you don't need very large single cards (512MB or 1GB) or the extra speed of a faster and more expensive CF card - then memory sticks are still the best bet.

----
IMHO, the reason to go through the extra expense and the hassle of the (current) CF driver is to do NEW things you can't do with a normal memory stick - like moving in photos from a non-Sony camera, or using faster CF cards or ...

So this goes back to the main complaint. If people are expecting something with the polish, price and ease of a memory stick - then buy a memory stick (ie. regular stick which are relatively cheap, not MSPro)

It has been fun to experiment and play around with though :).

[jovy]

There will always be controversial on subject like this one. How do we avoide it? How about a shareware. Try before you buy makes everyone happy. Afraid of piracy? Hackers are in every where. No matter how you protect it. They can always crack it. Why not be open minded and look on the bright site?:cool:

[mportuesi]

Originally posted by CliePet
> though I may end up getting the CF driver simply so I can use my old 128 MB Sandisk card for ebooks or something.

Not just to pick on you - but why ?

128MB memory sticks are cheap (around $30 after rebates these days). If you shop around, they are about the same price (per byte) as normal CF cards.



Don't worry, I don't think you're picking on me! I do realize that new 128 MB memory sticks can be had for about the cost of the Eruware driver.

The thought was that I could put the 128 CF in, with a bunch of eBooks on it. iSilo can access both volumes just fine, without masquerading. I can play music, take pictures, etc with the Memory Stick. And the data on the CF would be there even when I change memsticks. No masquerading, no trick mode, so I avoid most of the problems with the current driver.

Completely nonessential, but just an excuse so I could play with the driver. I'm still going to sit and wait, to see if Eruware actually improves things, or just takes the money and runs.

[jledesma]

I really don't care very much if Eruware took the money and ran. I'm actually very happy with the drivers capabilities so far, mostly because I use the CF card to transfer images from my digital camera and to store e-books, games for ScummVM, kinoma movies and other data.

The mp3's and mqv movies are fine in the MS.

I guess the level of satisfaction is in direct relation of the use you have for the product. If there are upgrades and improvements great, if there are not, well life is a b@#ch.

Just my 2 pesos

[donaldekelly]

In one of the threads Amir Yasin (or whatever his name is - I am probably spelling it wrong) said an update was in the works, that they were concentrating on delivery of the product for a while, but now are full steam back working on updates.

So, I believe they have earned our trust so far. I believe an update is coming - probably in a few weeks.

Quote:
We have been working out the kinks in the order process and dealing with various logistical issues. Now that things are smoothing out a bit we are back to working on the driver (not that we ever really quit). The next update will be out to beta testers probably relatively soon, and if it proves stable there, will be available to registered customers about a week after that. The next driver should be more stable and a faster, as well as potentially having a new feature or two. Thanks for your support .

Amir

End Quote

http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12599&highlight=ayasin

[Tixx]

Originally posted by donaldekelly
In one of the threads Amir Yasin (or whatever his name is - I am probably spelling it wrong) said an update was in the works, that they were concentrating on delivery of the product for a while, but now are full steam back working on updates.

So, I believe they have earned our trust so far. I believe an update is coming - probably in a few weeks.

Quote:
We have been working out the kinks in the order process and dealing with various logistical issues. Now that things are smoothing out a bit we are back to working on the driver (not that we ever really quit). The next update will be out to beta testers probably relatively soon, and if it proves stable there, will be available to registered customers about a week after that. The next driver should be more stable and a faster, as well as potentially having a new feature or two. Thanks for your support .

Amir

End Quote

http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12599&highlight=ayasin

Cool:)

[pusfarm]

Well, I'm glad some of you saw what I was talking about.&nbsp; It's too bad some others missed my point entirely,&nbsp;thought I was just name calling or misinterpreted my post as an effort to stifle discussion of problems or issues.

As someone correctly remembered, people were clamoring for this driver - warts and all - since it was first announced.&nbsp; It's version 1.0 of a driver that Sony consciously made difficult to write - it WILL have issues of various kinds.&nbsp; But Eruware have made it known they're working on them and this driver has already made many purchasers very happy, including me.&nbsp; Didn't Eruware earn any more respect than "the CF driver kinda sucks"?

To those of you who think I was out of line to question&nbsp;the starter of this thread for his/her tact or that it's OK or "constructive" to say "let's admit it... the CF driver kinda sucks" [acknowledging that there were supporting&nbsp;"facts"], especially when this same driver was arguably THE hot topic on this forum for a long time, I say pull your heads out!&nbsp;

The issues with this driver were well documented by Eruware and other posters to this forum, so to say we were being "informed" or "alerted" by "the CF driver kinda sucks" is pure&nbsp;horsht.&nbsp; It was just a whiny "I've contributed nothing&nbsp;to your efforts, but why isn't it perfect already?&nbsp; For ME?"

I'm gonna stop now because I just realized I'm trying to explain this to people who don't - or won't try to - get it.&nbsp; I just hope this guy's not a teacher ["let's face it...&nbsp;your kid's just a retard.&nbsp; You should send him to the glue factory.&nbsp; Here are the facts supporting my position...."].:rolleyes:

[pusfarm]

Originally posted by Tixx
There is nothing wrong with Sombrio's post.&nbsp;It's great to see people like pusfarm that start childish name calling for no apparent reason. Ironic how the name caller, in name calling, becomes that very name they called;)

There are issues with the driver such as some speed and convenience. It is a great app and needs some work still as is apparent around this entire board. This is for the benefit of the developers that these issues are discussed so that they may better their product with greater accuracy and input. Hey, don't talk about the issues and maybe they will just go away:rolleyes: And don't talk about them so the developer does not know what his customer base wants:rolleyes: There is something called constructive criticism and people need to learn it betters our world on a daily basis. Gee Tixx, thanks for setting me straight.&nbsp; You're right, there&nbsp;is nothing wrong with the post and maybe the issues WILL just go away.&nbsp; Shhh, we don't want the developers to know we have... "concerns".&nbsp; Tee hee hee.&nbsp; Oh, yeah, and thanks also for pointing out that constructive criticism thing - apparently Sombrio caught that class while I must have been smoking in the bathroom or something.&nbsp; We need to learn it, dammit!!&nbsp; Where would this world be right now&nbsp;without your tutoring in these common little courtesies?&nbsp; It's just a good thing that Sombrio used constructive criticism instead of, say, a crass opinion.

Hey,&nbsp;maybe they'll let you tend the rabbits afterall.

You may not know this, but there is something called respect - not that saying something "sucks" is disrespectful or anything - and people need to learn... ah, screw it, the CF driver does kinda suck.&nbsp; What was I thinking??

I must have completely missed this Tixx fellow's beacon o' wisdom when I originally visited this thread.&nbsp; My bad.

[Godzilla63]

Originally posted by Reggie

This thread reminds me of the Dixie Chicks issue.


Agree. Let's shoot down anyone who doesn't wave the Eruware patriot flag.... No!

But that aside...
Love the driver & have not found a speed issue with the "1GB Transcend 30x" - early days though. All the previous speed issues I read about (thank you for your posts) have not really materialized. Maybe I simply had lower expectations.

I would like to know who you get Mobipocket to save to the CF card though... any help?

[Tixx]

Originally posted by pusfarm
Gee Tixx, thanks for setting me straight.&nbsp; You're right, there&nbsp;is nothing wrong with the post and maybe the issues WILL just go away.&nbsp; Shhh, we don't want the developers to know we have... "concerns".&nbsp; Tee hee hee.&nbsp; Oh, yeah, and thanks also for pointing out that constructive criticism thing - apparently Sombrio caught that class while I must have been smoking in the bathroom or something.&nbsp; We need to learn it, dammit!!&nbsp; Where would this world be right now&nbsp;without your tutoring in these common little courtesies?&nbsp; It's just a good thing that Sombrio used constructive criticism instead of, say, a crass opinion.

Hey,&nbsp;maybe they'll let you tend the rabbits afterall.

You may not know this, but there is something called respect - not that saying something "sucks" is disrespectful or anything - and people need to learn... ah, screw it, the CF driver does kinda suck.&nbsp; What was I thinking??

I must have completely missed this Tixx fellow's beacon o' wisdom when I originally visited this thread.&nbsp; My bad.

*LOL*:D Thanks for bringing the element of pettiness to the thread:rolleyes: Hopefully we can be done with it and get back to the actual topic of the thread:)

Now how about that CF Driver? I hope the Beta is coming along nicely and that most of the issues brought up here will have been addressed. Any word on it yet?

[Dexion]

I dunno bout you guys but I've been having problems with the CF file compatibility between my Nikon Coolpix camera and the Clie. The only reason why I bought the CF driver was to have a file sharing capability between the two devices. Having extra MP3 storage capacity on the CF card is a bonus.

This is under FAT format, and although both devices can read the directories(sometimes), perfect. Both can read, view, write. No probs. However, The problems I'm having is that certain files or directories seem to dissappear after prolonged use. It
's totally inconsistent. The clie sometimes isn't able to read the photo taken by the Nikonm, the file is sometimes "corrupted" by the Clie and both my Reader and Nikon camera is unable to read the file created by the Nikon.

Have any of you had this problem?

Most of you may ask "how did you create the file system? is it FAT?" The answer is, yes it is FAT. The file system was first created with the camera using it's format utility. This generates a "DCIM" directory and a Nikon volume file. I then copied all the Memory Stick volume information files and directories over from the my MS.

[jledesma]

Originally posted by Dexion
I dunno bout you guys but I've been having problems with the CF file compatibility between my Nikon Coolpix camera and the Clie. The only reason why I bought the CF driver was to have a file sharing capability between the two devices. Having extra MP3 storage capacity on the CF card is a bonus.

This is under FAT format, and although both devices can read the directories(sometimes), perfect. Both can read, view, write. No probs. However, The problems I'm having is that certain files or directories seem to dissappear after prolonged use. It
's totally inconsistent. The clie sometimes isn't able to read the photo taken by the Nikonm, the file is sometimes "corrupted" by the Clie and both my Reader and Nikon camera is unable to read the file created by the Nikon.

Have any of you had this problem?

Most of you may ask "how did you create the file system? is it FAT?" The answer is, yes it is FAT. The file system was first created with the camera using it's format utility. This generates a "DCIM" directory and a Nikon volume file. I then copied all the Memory Stick volume information files and directories over from the my MS.

I think maybe the problem is with your CF card (just a wild guess) I'm currently using a Nikon Coolpix 5700 on a 256 MB card which is branded as "Office Depot" (I really don't know who makes these ones). I have had absolutely no problem using the same card in both gadgets. My card was also formated in the camera and when I first inserted it on the Clie the appropriate directories were created.

Try using a different brand of card to see if the problem continues

[big_daddy_mpd]

Folks, what I like about groups like this, is that we are "adopters" that forge the new frontiers for technology features like this. No mere "mortal" would even expect, let alone, KNOW what a CF IS! Sony does need to leave their "proprietary hardware fetish" behind, and get with open standards. True, MS and MS Pro, are cool storage devices, but, since my NX60 has a CF slot on it now, I've got alternatives.

Anyone have insight into why Sony is so quick to discontinue devices? I mean, there current is no N based Clie that has the features (or lack, thereof) of my NX 60. I don't want/need a camera, but I love having the hi-res screen and other features. Seems like they are cutting off folks that would buy a Clie, but not a camera.

Regards,

Big Daddy:confused:

[Dexion]

Anyone have insight into why Sony is so quick to discontinue devices? I mean, there current is no N based Clie that has the features (or lack, thereof) of my NX 60. I don't want/need a camera, but I love having the hi-res screen and other features. Seems like they are cutting off folks that would buy a Clie, but not a camera.

Sony tends to discontinue a product when a "new" product is introduced to replace the other. What I'm trying to say is that it seems as though Sony (along with the rumors) that a new predecessor of the NX series will be released soon. How soon? we don't know, but I would bet on this summer.

The only other logical reason I can think of is that they feel that the NX60's manufacturing costs isn't worth the cost since the NX70V counterpart almosts costs the same to produce. And perhaps removing the NX60 off their line would inhibit more buyers that might have gotten the NX60 would instead purchase NX70V. The recent price drop adds to the equation. Its about the $$$.

[Dexion]

I think maybe the problem is with your CF card (just a wild guess) I'm currently using a Nikon Coolpix 5700 on a 256 MB card which is branded as "Office Depot" (I really don't know who makes these ones). I have had absolutely no problem using the same card in both gadgets. My card was also formated in the camera and when I first inserted it on the Clie the appropriate directories were created.

About the CF problem, although you might be right about CF being the main problem. I own a Sandisk 64Mb and a 128mb, so far I only the 64mb has given me problems. I haven't had problems with the 64mb before the CF driver, nor does it have problems when I reformat the card and use it for both PC and with the Nikon Coolpix 880. I'm totally stumped, and I think that there is a conflict somewhere wither with the driver, or the Coolpix. *shrugs* I recently haven't had it happen

Back to the thread, I'm just a little dissappointed in the driver. There seems to be so many work arounds and bugs, perhaps they shouldn't have charged us $27 for the driver(yet), its like releasing an incomplete game for full price, and then having periodical patches. To me, to release something for retail, have it somewhat "stable" and "complete" to charge full price. I feel like a beta tester when I shouldn't be.

[donaldekelly]

Apparently one of the beta testers started offering the driver for free - so they felt they had to start selling it as is - if they were going to make money off of all their time and work.

Plus other people felt strongly in an opposite way from what you do - that Eruware had a working product and they wanted it as is and could wait for the bugs to be worked out.

So, two good reasons to release it earlier than they otherwise might have released it.

[Dexion]

Apparently one of the beta testers started offering the driver for free - so they felt they had to start selling it as is - if they were going to make money off of all their time and work.

Plus other people felt strongly in an opposite way from what you do - that Eruware had a working product and they wanted it as is and could wait for the bugs to be worked out.


So, two good reasons to release it earlier than they otherwise might have released it.



Not that I don't agree that the driver is leaps ahead from absolutely no CF support at all. I do agree that they should charge people with the driver rather than free. What I'm trying to say is that $27 is actually a little much for a driver that "partially" works. The driver is obviously incomplete, and fairly and logically, they should have charged less than the full retail amount. When a "final" version comes up, offer an upgrade for those who purchased the beta.

Yes, there are some things are nice about the driver, but there are things that I gripe about that obviously Eruware is fully aware of. I just kinda feel shafted that I paid full price for something that doesn't work properly. If I knew I was paying for beta software, I would have thought twice about it.

[MythoFactory]

those comments remind me of the Mac OS X Public beta... everybody wanted it, and then twas the ol' ranting about the dysfunctionments... oh, well Apple SAID it was a beta, while eruware stated on their site what worked and what didn't; if you bought without reading, tis your problem, not EruWares'

[Dexion]

oh, well Apple SAID it was a beta, while eruware stated on their site what worked and what didn't; if you bought without reading, tis your problem, not EruWares'

Eruware didn't say it was beta. Thats the difference. If it was beta, aren't we supposed to receive the newer and better beta version? And pay only $15? Is it fair that the beta testers are using something more up-to-date than the paying customers?

Anyone can say "We stated on our site that this & this will cause a problem! or doesn't work!" but then somewhere along those lines is "well, there could be some more problems that we haven't found yet." That could mean just about anything.

The problem is, we as a customer should be given the idea that the product that you purchased isn't fully complete and that there will be blatent bugs in it other than the ones that we have found/posted on the website. What I'm trying to get at is that the procedure they went through is incorrect, if you think otherwise, that's your own judgement. The truth is, Eruware didn't say it was Beta software, and those that purchased at a "complete price" of $27 didn't get a complete product. I'm not saying $27 is a lot of money, it's the concept behind it that's wrong.

Would you not complain at your local McDonald's paying for a BigMac and only getting 1 beef patty instead of the 2(not like it makes a difference, still junk)?.

All I'm stating here is "Am I getting what I paid for?"

Right now, the answer is: "Probably not, hopefully we will in the long run"

[MythoFactory]

Originally posted by Dexion
All I'm asking and stating here is "Am I getting what I paid for?"

Right now, the answer is: "Probably not, hopefully we will in the long run"

I'm asking myself the same thing everyday when I see my NX70 with its empty CF slot... and sony didn't said it was a BETA clie they were selling.

eruware is trying to help us, in spite of SONY irrelevant behavior, the title of this thread is a very hard blow on them I think. They may decide to take the little money they made and stop the production of the CF driver... I hope they won't.

[Dexion]

I'm asking myself the same thing everyday when I see my NX70 with its empty CF slot... and sony didn't said it was a BETA clie they were selling.

To blame this on Sony is totally not the issue. Sony NEVER said they would support the CF slot, and if your staring at a empty CF slot, get a WIFI card. You got your NX70V for what you paid for, every cent and you didn't get shafted or left hanging since its an awesome PDA. Right?

eruware is trying to help us, in spite of SONY irrelevant behavior, the title of this thread is a very hard blow on them I think. They may decide to take the little money they made and stop the production of the CF driver... I hope they won't.

So you DO agree that they still need to continue "production" with the driver.

I don't truly believe that they are trying to help us, they are obviously in this for profit. Any business would be, and good for them for grasping the opportunity. The title of this thread is proper no matter how you look at it, the CF driver is incomplete. What's worst is that they charged us all $27 for it and labeled it as "released" or "final" simply by not tagging the beta version label with it. They could shaft us again by releasing a newer version ie: CF driver for Sony Clie 2!! and requesting us all to buy that version instead for more money. Of course no software company does that except for Microshaft, but they could, could they not?

The fact is, I am just as concerned as you that they could take all the money they earned with their incomplete product and leave with it.

Bottom line is: I probably wouldn't have paid $27 if I would have known that the current beta CF driver version may cause frustration to users with unsolvable problems with your clie, or even worst crashing your clie with a hard reset. I would have chosen to wait for the finished product, where everything works with minimal(normal) problems and a proper customer support. Isn't this the proper way?

[MythoFactory]

I'm off, don't see the point arguing with sony spokesman.

[Dexion]

who said we were arguing? And when did I say I was a spokesperson for Sony? I wish.

Keep in mind that the Sony specs never stated that they would support compactFlash memory cards. I don't think they would EVER support it since they have the MS Slot, the CF slot was made only for the WIFI card.

[michael1960]

I am just coming back from a 2 weeks holiday. Took pictures with my Olympus C5050 5 megapixel camera. Thanks to Eruware (and AcidImage) I was able to view them on my NX70. That's really great! :)

Does the CF Driver suck? No, no, never!!! It certainly isn't perfect and the handling sometimes is a bit inconvenient. But it opens up many new possibilities for using the NX70 (and NZ90).

I would certainly love to see an update of the driver soon, but it is already doing a good job for me. :)

[donaldekelly]

"What I'm trying to say is that $27 is actually a little much for a driver that "partially" works."

Fair enough. I am assuming / trusting that this was the best they could do by May 15th, 2003 and that further FREE updates ARE coming. $27 up front doesn't bother me, but I can see your point.

[jledesma]

Dexion

May I remind you that Eruware was against releasing the driver BEFORE it was complete. But we, as potential users, started to ask for the driver no matter what the state of it was, so, if you want to blame someone about the driver not being complete you should blame us, not Eruware.

As for the price, well, you must make a balance between how much it costs and the value of the driver. If Eruware wanted they could have charged $50 for it, and since they own the market we would be forced to cough up $50 for the driver (as sony often force us to do), so for $27 you get, IMHO, great value at a decent cost.

We should keep on encouraging Eruware to update their product so it becomes a better product instead of whine about something we already knew... The driver is not complete.

Just my 2 cents

[Dexion]

I know you guys are right, and I never gave up hope that Eruware will bring us a great product in the end. Right now, as a customer, I believe I have the right to say that there they might have jumped the gun a little too early. I don't think it would have made a mistake by releasing it later when the driver is more "complete". And as you say it, they "own" the market. If they released it later with a better product they would earn more loyal customers. Right now I'm sure there are a few wary customers that bought the product and might want their money back that lost faith in the product. Of course this is a small percentage of users(and I myself isn't part of this), but thats still a percentage that could have been avoided.

May I remind you that Eruware was against releasing the driver BEFORE it was complete. But we, as potential users, started to ask for the driver no matter what the state of it was, so, if you want to blame someone about the driver not being complete you should blame us, not Eruware.

Yes, all of us want many things. And when we demand something, do we always get what we want? No. In the end, its the company that decides that makes the business strategy change. Eruware must have analyzed the driver "completion" and then decided that they "could" release it prior to the deadline. However, I think they made a slight mistake. Whether it was financial problems or plain "eagerness", they should have held off a month or so before releasing the driver. I don't think the market share would have changed within a month or 2. The difference between a complete product and an incomplete one is huge and can cause a bad reputation. Just look at Sony, I don't think they would ever release an incomplete product.

Eruware could have continued their beta testing by opening it to the public, charging a lesser fee for those that want the software. This would fix their financial problems temporarily, ontop of that, the customers still would stay happy since they only purchased something that was "work-in-progress". Those who purchased the beta driver would get periodic updates with new fixes. Eruware would have a larger pool of beta testers, with more likely of finding bugs. When the driver is finally at its completion, charge $27 for the complete version! Beta purchasers would then pay the difference to update it to the full version, getting the proper customer support and license information.

Wouldn't this be a better way? Fill the demand with the beta version(which is this one that we currently own) for those that insist that they want it. As well, let those not as "tech sauvy" users know that this version of the driver isn't "idiot proof" so they wouldn't purchase it yet. Temporarily earn the money to pay for research and development from users that support you, release a more complete product with the bells & whistles, and finally when the driver is released Eruware owners would sleep better at night not thinking about if they lost any customers.

[donaldekelly]

Each time they charge a customer it costs about $2 to use paypal - I have heard. I am not sure about this.

So the cost of the driver would be $29 if it was in two parts.

[Dexion]

I'm not sure if that's correct. I think its a percentage? Not sure. But whats a couple bucks paying for something that works great?

:D

[ejanssen]

The original proposed price of the driver was $25. Once they explored payment options, it was boosted to $27. That's how some understand Paypal to cost $2 per transaction.

[Dexion]

As for the price, well, you must make a balance between how much it costs and the value of the driver. If Eruware wanted they could have charged $50 for it, and since they own the market we would be forced to cough up $50 for the driver (as sony often force us to do), so for $27 you get, IMHO, great value at a decent cost.

I never said that $27 was a lot of money. For now, $27 seems a little steep for something that doesn't work at its full potential. Granted when the driver works flawlessly, it would be a bargain! I would pay more infact.

[jledesma]

Let's face it guys, even if Eruware decided to charge $0.50 for the software there would be still lots and lots of guys out there complaining about the price, the would probably be whining about how they are going to have to pay fifty cents more for each upgrade they decided to make, and how the driver is not what they expected.

It's just a matter of human nature.

[Dexion]

That's a little extreme isn't it? 50 cents?

um... hmm.. err..


Dunno how you can conclude something like that.

[jledesma]

It was just a ridiculous price chosen to clarify the point that no matter how cheap or how pricy things are there will be always someone ready to disagree on it

[Dexion]

True, but I don't think anyone is arguing that the driver isn't worth the price. Money isn't the issue of debate here.

[mportuesi]

Originally posted by jledesma
Let's face it guys, even if Eruware decided to charge $0.50 for the software there would be still lots and lots of guys out there complaining about the price,

I don't think price is the issue.


and how the driver is not what they expected.


I, for one, am not expecting the CF driver to move mountains or end world hunger.

All I expect it to do is provide the same functionality I get from a memory stick - including things like playing movies and taking pictures with the camera.

That is not unreasonable. Since the current driver doesn't do these things, this thread has a justification to exist.

[MythoFactory]

Originally posted by mportuesi
That is not unreasonable.

Good thing to know, maybe you should lend your algorithms ideas and your programming talents to Eruware, or do it yourself... we're all waiting.

[Dexion]

Good thing to know, maybe you should lend your algorithms ideas and your programming talents to Eruware, or do it yourself... we're all waiting.

I don't see a point in this comment. Let's keep this civilized, if you don't have any positive input or opinions, then don't comment. We're discussing an issue, not start a fight.

[*YellowRose*]

Originally posted by mportuesi All I expect it to do is provide the same functionality I get from a memory stick - including things like playing movies and taking pictures with the camera.

That is not unreasonable. Since the current driver doesn't do these things, this thread has a justification to exist. Okay.

Here's MY take: You will NEVER have the same functionality with CF as you do with MS . . . Sony has done everything they can to keep this from happening (basically not releasing the APIs, etc.)

My opinion on you being unhappy with your purchase? Well, if you bought shoes, and wore them for a week, and decided you didn't like them anymore, would you keep wearing them? No, I doubt it. You'd stick them in the back of your closet and 'forget about them'. I suggest, if you find the software THAT inferior, you delete it from your PDA, hide it on your hard drive and forget about it. If it makes you THAT miserable, don't use it. Life is TOO SHORT to be so unhappy about a piece of software.

I've not purchased the software myself, as I don't have a CF card, but I've followed the development & issues closely, and I think Eruware has done/is doing a remarkable job MAKING this work at all, with no help from 'Uncle Sony'. I'm sure it wasn't easy, and I don't even want to THINK about what they had to do . . . but *applause* I think they're doing a fine job.

Patience will be rewarded.

[MythoFactory]

Originally posted by Dexion


I don't see a point in this comment. Let's keep this civilized, if you don't have any positive input or opinions, then don't comment. We're discussing an issue, not start a fight.

how you can post in a thread that has the word 'sucks' in the title and find my comment uncivilized baffles me.

I was discussing an issue here, if someone have ideas on how to do a better CF driver, he should tell us or do it; if you don't know how, then don't say it's easy.

[greg elmassian]

hmm.. i hope my comment is not uncivilized...

the driver could be better....

it's not a bargin...

and there apparently has been an updated beta for some time...

i think the developer should have put out an updated driver to registered users a while ago... we can make the decision to try it or not...

just taking too long...

greg

[Dexion]

how you can post in a thread that has the word 'sucks' in the title and find my comment uncivilized baffles me.

You being a "veteran" at this forum should know to read the first post first and conclude that I didn't create this thread. Secondly, I have not used the word "sucks" with anything to do with CF driver. Read my posts again and quote me if I did, I doubt you'll find anything.

I'm merely posting here that I do "agree" somewhat with this thread and that the CF driver still needs work.

I was discussing an issue here, if someone have ideas on how to do a better CF driver, he should tell us or do it; if you don't know how, then don't say it's easy.

That's not an issue. That's a idiotic statement that says "well, why don't you do it then?". I remember these kind of things when I was in grade school, they never ended up in contributive discussions.

[Dexion]

Here's MY take: You will NEVER have the same functionality with CF as you do with MS . . . Sony has done everything they can to keep this from happening (basically not releasing the APIs, etc.)

I agree with that. I personally am not asking for that extreme, just something stable and more compatible.


My opinion on you being unhappy with your purchase? Well, if you bought shoes, and wore them for a week, and decided you didn't like them anymore, would you keep wearing them? No, I doubt it. You'd stick them in the back of your closet and 'forget about them'. I suggest, if you find the software THAT inferior, you delete it from your PDA, hide it on your hard drive and forget about it. If it makes you THAT miserable, don't use it. Life is TOO SHORT to be so unhappy about a piece of software.

Your comparision is flawed. The difference between shoes and a driver is very different. Shoes is very physical, you walk into a shoe store pick the colors you like, try it on, walk a bit, and ask people how it looks. You know what your getting! Your only worried about durability at that point. Whereas, for the CF driver, we didn't have a trial version. We simply paid the money by looking at a list of "specs" and bought the thing and crossed our fingers hoping that it works. Personally, I still use the CF Driver but I'm just a tad dissappointed in it. Is there anything wrong with voicing my opinion? Wouldn't you complain to Nike if one of the "boings" broke after paying a couple hundred bucks?

*applause* I think they're doing a fine job.

They ARE doing a fine job. I just think they should have took some more time to polish the driver a bit more, so it would have been a "FANTASTIC" job.

[n2ifp]

It's awfully hard to please everyone. This is a classic case of being damned if you do or damned if you don't.

For some of us who were involved, it's a frustrating experience seeing both sides of the issues.

It helps to remember that Sony is the cause of all this. Their keeping most things a secret have hurt us all. There is great potential to be had if Sony was more cooperative. IMHO, Sony could have made our lives a lot easier and they could have also benefitted from it.

[yawn]

Ok, now we are going to beat that dead Sony blame horse again :rolleyes:

The consumer has to take some of the responsibility for being unhappy that Sony never produced a CF driver. As has been pointed out numerous times, Sony never advertised it as an all purpose CF "slot". The assumption was made by many that if they badgered Sony enough or if they just got lucky Sony would produce a driver. This being despite the obvious GSW to the foot that doing that would have been for Sony.

So now there is a driver, it isn't perfect but it is better than nothing for those who just couldn't live without one, right???

Ok, now where is that new Clie?

[donaldekelly]

ANyone have an eta on when the new updated cf driver may be available? I know there are restrictions on what can be said if you are part of the beta group, but can anything be said?

[MythoFactory]

-Sony never said that you could use Storage cards on the CF port (Sony said it WAS a CF port though...) and people accept that and say the customer has to take the responsibility

-Eruware never said that their CF driver was perfect, and people say that they were flouted

when you sell something, you won't state the negative (twould be funny to have specs like : "super cool Storage-disabled CF slot!!", "doesn't sync with Macs, !!",etc...)
To sell something, you say it does this and that, and omit its flaws. It's a commercial practice, if you accept it from sony, you should accept it from eruware.

You'll probably laugh when I tell you that when I bought my first CLIE (N700C) I only saw the palm logo and presumed that it would sync with my beloved PowerMac. Imagine the cold sweat I did when I brought it back at home! I was saved by the guys at MarkSpace. Sony likes to advertise standard interfaces, and disable half their functions in the machine.

[mportuesi]

I don't really care what Eruware did or did not promise. All I care about is what the driver is and does. The cost of the driver is quite fair.

From a purely practical viewpoint, the question is whether or not I can do the things I can do with the Memory Stick. (I can make allowances for the need for Masquerade mode).

If the answer is no, then MS or MS Pro might be a better buy - even though the media is more expensive.

I don't care about what Sony did or didn't do to make the CF slot functional. I don't care about how nice or not the Eruware folks are, or what promises they're making. All that matters is whether their product delivers - and so far, it's lacking in a few key areas.

Because Sony went out of their way to make the slot difficult to support, I'm not certain the driver can be made to do all the things that a MS can do. So, I'm waiting for Eruware to produce proof positive before I buy.

I don't have anything against Eruware, or anything against the people in this forum. I'm just trying to be a sensible consumer.

[pusfarm]

Originally posted by Dexion
The difference between shoes and a driver is very different. Shoes is very physical, you walk into a shoe store pick the colors you like, try it on, walk a bit, and ask people how it looks. You know what your getting! Your only worried about durability at that point. Whereas, for the CF driver, we didn't have a trial version. We simply paid the money by looking at a list of "specs" and bought the thing and crossed our fingers hoping that it works. True, but if you had no trial version to experiment with wouldn't you wait and see what experience other people had with it?&nbsp; If there's a trial version, you get it and see if it suits your needs.&nbsp; If there is no trial, you don't buy it until you can get some gauge on what it's capable of.&nbsp;&nbsp;If you weren't allowed to see the shoes or try them on would you still buy them?&nbsp; Probably not.

If you bought it anyway, there's nobody to blame except yourself, especially with these forums in place to read others' experiences.&nbsp; I have the driver and&nbsp;I love it because it gives me storage options other than the MS.&nbsp; Please let's not forget that this driver is evolving.&nbsp; It's still being worked on and improved - the beta testers know this even if the rest of us don't see it.&nbsp; When it becomes usable to those who don't think it is now, I would bet that more than $27 of effort per buyer will have gone into it.

[BettyE]

Originally posted by mportuesi
I don't really care what Eruware did or did not promise. All I care about is what the driver is and does. The cost of the driver is quite fair.

I agree. The $27 is lunch money. Let's face it, we all paid about $500 for the NX 70. IMHO, it is a bonus if, for a mere $27, I can have CF functionality. I would gladly pay twice as much.

In fact, I kind of rejoice to see the entrepreneurial spirit that Eruware represents.

Further, I can't remember all the disclaimers, etc., but, when I purchased the driver, I realized this is a small company that did not have the resources to do the extensive testing that a large company can do. So...I expected some problems and work arounds, and I bought a "mainstream" CF card to try to minimize problems.

As it turns out, it is better than I expected, at least using my SanDisk CF card.

[donaldekelly]

I am getting kind of tired of the arguing. Not that you all shouldn't argue or discuss. And it is my own fault that I keep reading this thread.

Just some uninvited feedback. Sorry.

[donaldekelly]

Hmm - my previous post was uncalled for. I retract it. Just cause I am tired and in a mood I shouldn't disrupt all your fun.

Sorry

[n2ifp]

Originally posted by yawn
Ok, now we are going to beat that dead Sony blame horse again :rolleyes:&nbsp;


How can it be&nbsp;a dead horse when it comes up on a daily basis. While it might be true that your tired of hearing about it, that is another matter. True Sony didn't make any promises. We also miss out on&nbsp;a lot because of the way Sony is. People tend to forget why we have these certain issues. The PPC platform has a whole lot of extra goodies that can be added on for their customers needs. Sony makes us all jump through hoops and end up with things that are&nbsp;less than satisfactory, especially when we know it&nbsp;DOESN'T HAVE TO BE! I have advocated before, the way to get Sony's attention is through their wallet. Otherwise Sony corporate managment has it's head up it's butt :mad:! Sony really needs some serious competition. The people are already drooling over what Sony may come out with next and they will just get kicked all over again...

[donaldekelly]

N2IFP - how do you do it? You seem to know almost everything there is to know about the NX and post in almost all the threads! Do you sleep 3 hours each night?

Just wondering.

-- bad joke edited out - since I wasn't sure how inappropriate it was--

[n2ifp]

Originally posted by donaldekelly
ANyone have an eta on when the new updated cf driver may be available? I know there are restrictions on what can be said if you are part of the beta group, but can anything be said?

Do you think you have an exclusive on being cranky? I have news for you, get in line :D!

Ha ha! I am good at creating illusions :D

As far as the CF driver goes, the following improvements that I have noticed so far are, speed, the still camera and mp3 playback. The last I heard, Amir was fine tuning the Video and other misc issues.

[RipDogger]

Lets face it...

I admit it my Hyundai kinda SUCKS, especially when compared to the new Mercedes SLK 32 AMG my wife drives -go figure that out?

The fact of the matter is that my parents could not pay for my med school and my wife's parents could- thus I have mucho, mucho student loans to pay while she does not.

I learned to deal with it as that was what life had to offer me, in many ways similar to SONY (aka wife's parents) could provide perfect CF driver with all APIs, where as me (aka Eruware ) making do with the best I can and hopeful to improve things as I can each day.

Hey- beggars (me) can't be chosers... as much as I wish it could be otherwise.

I'm just appreciative that Eruware is out there looking out for the interests of the clie community, unlike what SONY has chosen to do.

[JLHoffy]

I too have med school loans. My wife's father paid off her law school loans, and since she is rich, he paid off my med school loans too. Now, we are both out of school and training and both drive BMWs.

Moral of the story: Get you father-in-law to pay your loans and you both can drive nice cars!

J

[RipDogger]

Much like when I think of SONY and their refusal to make a working CF driver, I feel that my father-in-law much like good ole' SONY Inc. would benefit significantly from a WWF type smackdown!

[cliener]

hmmm, let's see. okay, released beta version and now they want the upgrade. Perhaps this argument is moot. Everyone wanted it, they wanted it before it was perfected. They got it before it was perfected (or at least more polished). Now they want Eruware to "fix" it and hurry up and release the fix? Isn't that what displeased in the first place? They are working on the upgraded version. Be patient and see what they turn out. There is a huge difference in apps that can be and cannot be used for various reasons so don't expect the driver to fulfill everyones expectations. Someone will always be disappointed. Try to remember that the apps must support the driver, not vice versa. If sony does know about the driver do you think they will turn out anything that will work with it in the future? This is doubtful, so should we expect the driver to be "fixed" to work with this other stuff? We are all adults here, so lets act that way and conduct ourselves as such. Nuff said.

[jerryprism]

As a pre-purchaser I find this thread very helpful. Especially Benixau from Australia, paraphrased "Driver + CF +CF/SD Adapter + Makes Sense." Cheap + Easy memory is all I need.

[FreefallX]

I have to somewhat agree with sombrio. I think that it is great that someone stepped forward and made a cf driver. However i have to say that it is far from perfect. I wouldnt have complaints if it was free but when you ask me for my money i want a finished product. To be honest, im curious to see what Eruware is going to do next. Its my belief that if everyone here just accepts the driver the way it is, and is just happy that someone made a driver. Then there is no real need for eruware to up the ante. And if it wasnt for someone like sombrio who chose to say what is undoubtedly on everyones minds, then nothing will get done. Sure you can sit back and shout him down, strength in numbers. But if eruware is capable of making this driver, then who out there says they cant do more? And if not eruware, then someone else will. So do me a favor, when they improve upon the idea, dont download the new driver, stick with the one you have. Cause you were willing to compromise. But for me i demand more.

[MythoFactory]

...you ask me for my money i want a finished product...

nobody asked for your money. you want it, you pay for it. if you don't want to give up your money, just don't buy it. It's a man to man system here.
If you think there's not enough in the deal for your money, well, sit on it. or wait until the soft gets better.

[Donmichaelo]

The guys did, do and are doing a good job! In around a month they released and make worked 2 versions quite soon! The last one is a good one, not perfect but improved over the prior one.
We should give them support, not just purchasing the driver as we did, but congratulating them and encouraging to continue improving it.
I have found several minor bugs as everyone, but as a medical doctor accessing a CF make my life easier with my NX70.
Actually I am using the driver with a 256 Sandisk card and run smooth and fast...just some conflicts with Avantgo and when running movies and image off CF... But hey...it is just a 1.1 version...

Patience and comprehension..

My 2 cents...

Miguel

[n2ifp]

Some just love complaining, no matter what! Yes, I do my share too :D!

[Alistar]

Originally posted by MythoFactory


nobody asked for your money. you want it, you pay for it. if you don't want to give up your money, just don't buy it. It's a man to man system here.
If you think there's not enough in the deal for your money, well, sit on it. or wait until the soft gets better.

Thats exactly right.

If you wanted a completely perfect product you can wait 6 months until the driver works exactly as you want and then buy it. Several people are quite happy with the current capabilities and are prefectly happy to let it evolve.

[FreefallX]

Temper, temper....
Look, i bought the driver cause it promised me that i would be able to use the card. It didnt say work around. If you dont demand more for what you pay for then i pity you. Be happy for nothing. I think that eruware is doing a great job, but silencing naysayers does nothing. These are the types of opinions that really matter. Sure there are people out there that will just disagree, but if you want to make something better you have to know that its not perfect. Doers dont care about simple praise. Your complements are nice but you have to admit they're simply throwaway. Eruware has shown that they want to make something happen here, and i think they will. What it comes down to, is that its just not perfect yet. You can rant all you want about how incredible they are, and thats fine. But when you shout down someone elses ability speaksimply because it doesnt suit your beliefs, then thats just sad. These forums are a center for discussion and information, not for fanboys. I think there is so much more to be done, and i cant wait to see what eruware is going to do next. Like i said before when the new driver comes out dont download it, youre happy with this one.

[Donmichaelo]

Nobody can be HAPPY with the actual driver... but I think that they deserve some encouraging words to improve it...we should demand but at the same time slap shoulders...a month ago we didnt have anything...now things are changing...
Anxiety sometimes overshadows intellect.

Relax...everything is coming.... :)

[cliener]

Try to understand that this will never be perfect. It is a driver. The apps should be (but aren't) written to support it. The more apps, the more bugs encountered. I applaud the effort but let's be realistic. There is only so much Eruware or anyone else other than Sony can do to make it work. Sony refused to release the drivers initially. Now they released drivers that are limited in the number of apps they can be used with. To expect a third party to make everything work perfectly is asking too much. If Sony were to contact Eruware and work with them then maybe we would see some really amazing things happen, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Eruware in the mean time is open to suggestions about trying to improve the driver. So it is (IMHO) worth it to contact and suggest.

[Woodn]

Looking through this thread, it angers, frustrates and amuses me in almost equal proportions.

Angers
Some people have been really rude to EruWare and other people posting on the Board.
That seems a really pointless to me, just wastes time and energy. A real concern is that it can sap the will of people who are out to help us (and make some money in the process) resulting a a gradual loss of motivation on their part.

Frustrates
There are a lot of complaints coming out, and a few patterns have emerged (ie the 1GB card + Movie playback.) For the rest of them, there very are few solid facts from which any sort of pattern can be seen to emerge.
If we are going to discuss the problems, then why not document what the apps/hacks/hardware/etc is being used, so they can be analyzed?

Amuses
Some of the arguments strike me as a little naive, since they fail to recognize the practical limits that EruWare and the Beta team are under, especially given the lack of information to hand.
Finally we have Sony launching a new Clie with a CF driver in it! and guess what - it wont work with virtually all of the native apps! I come back to what Ayasin said about Sony having gone out of their way to make life difficult. They were so successful that they have even messed themselves up.

I personally have very little problem with the Driver, maybe I am in a minority but I don't think so. What I have gained form its presence is immeasurable for comparatively little cost in time and $.

I doubt that it will ever be perfect, but I believe that will be more due to obstacles placed in that way by Sony than the lack of desire/skill by EruWare to produce a "perfect" product.

OK - that is my grump out of the way and my 2 pennies worth!

Nigel

[big_daddy_mpd]

Folks,

Here's my question. Why does Sony leave money on the table? I mean, if Sony, came out today, with a CDMA cell modem/phone card for their proprietary N devices...they would sell a bunch of them! Why don't they? Do they think folks don't want that? Do they want me to buy a "bluetooth" enabled card/MS? If so, why don't they sell it in the U.S? I'm confused, they have product they could/would sell a bunch of in the U.S. and they don't. Why?

I'd understand if they had to do major development/design work, and they figured they wouldn't sell any, but, I swear, sometimes it seems they just WALK AWAY from money.

Sheesh!

Regards,

Michael:confused:

[n2ifp]

Originally posted by big_daddy_mpd
Folks,

Here's my question. Why does Sony leave money on the table? I mean, if Sony, came out today, with a CDMA cell modem/phone card for their proprietary N devices...they would sell a bunch of them! Why don't they? Do they think folks don't want that? Do they want me to buy a "bluetooth" enabled card/MS? If so, why don't they sell it in the U.S? I'm confused, they have product they could/would sell a bunch of in the U.S. and they don't. Why?

I'd understand if they had to do major development/design work, and they figured they wouldn't sell any, but, I swear, sometimes it seems they just WALK AWAY from money.

Sheesh!

Regards,

Michael:confused:

Your right, we really have to wonder why they have dropped the ball???

[dach95]

It's just a way to tease ya all into getting the next version...Works all the time:)&nbsp; Good doggie...:)

[greg elmassian]

i hope the beta is tested this time before release... i have a hard time believing it was tested much at al before the last release, since so many people had problems (myself included)

if the testing is the same, then just skip it and let us test it ourselves, as we did this last time...

i have nothing else to do with my 1 gig sandisk... it's easy to reformat when the cf driver creates 2 palm directories ... and cross links the directory entires... shades of old dos..

greg

[cliener]

Does anyone know if Sony has contacted Eruware? It seems that they may not have had drivers written for the cf slot of the clies. Why would they release drivers with limited use? I guess I am thinking they see the Eruware driver released and all the uses and they figured we will just make some drivers and take that market...but their drivers don't work with all their apps either. So maybe they could get together with Eruware and turn out some better drivers? Maybe I am just wishful thinking here. Ayasin, has Sony contacted you about this?

[CliePet]

> It seems that they (Sony) may not have had drivers written for the cf slot of the clies

FWIW: I would bet on the exact opposite.

My *guess* is there was/is an in-house version of a CF storage driver inside Sony working well before the NX was originally released. They keep a lot of things close to their chest.

They have an extensible architecture to enable a variety of plugin drivers. The reason they don't want to hype the CF slot for storage is because they sell memory sticks, not CF cards.
(a marketing decision, not a technological one). Memory sticks are a CLIE specific selling point

Having limited CF storage features in the new Japanese releases is a good start. Sometimes it takes an outside force to get them to open up, even just a little. Even so, I doubt they would go so far as to make the camera -> storage experience work well for a non-memory stick.

BTW: If Sony does contact you, it is usually after consulting their lawyers. Not something I would consider good news.

[Sockit]

Help PLEASE!
Just bought the driver and spent the afternoon trying to get my MP3s from my PC to my Clie. No matter what I do I have not been successful. Priot to buying the driver I used Musicmaker Jukebox and exported the play lists to the MS. Now I can't get it over there unless I revert to using MS again. Anyone have any cluse or success or is it just me?

Thanks,

[captainao]

Sockit, I belive MJ export is dependent on the use of MS Import which doesn't work with CF. I use a cheap ($10) CF card apapter to make the CF card appear as a drive on my system. I then copy the MP3s and voila . .. there are a number of threads with details on how to do this

[Sockit]

Thanks, I obviously didn't do my homework before ordering this. I've been reading a lot lately and it's a mixed bag ( response that is ). I basically want to put music and photos on the CF and thought it would have been easierwithout using other resources. Thanks for your reply.

[captainao]

I think you'll find that it's potentially even easier than what you were doing before since you're just copying files from one drive to another.
I don't use MJ (no need for it) so pre-CF driver, I just activated MSImport on the Clie and copied files over. Now I use a Sandisk PCMCIA adapter to copy them to the CF - if you are using a desktop w/o a PCMCIA slot, there are plenty of inexpensive USB card readers out there.
Important note: I'm using WinXP, which recognizes most of these devices out of the box - if you're using an older/different OS, you may need to load some drivers to have success