TG50 v.s. Zire 71

[Unregistered]

Just want your opinion on the decision between TG50 and Zire 71. I just saw the Zire 71 at the Circuit City. I am very suprised how awesome the display looks. I think I may be moving back to Palm after two years of being a Sony Clie user ( I have a T615)... The only things I wish Zire could have are:
1) better cover (instead of the slip on cover like the old Handspring Visor)
2) voice recording

I don't think bluetooth is necessary at all. At $299, I think I may have to go with Zire 71. I would have gone with TG50 if it has a graffiti input area instead of the STUPID thumb board...What is Sony thinking?

[wilsonch_98]

STUPID thumb board......

Hmmm...I don't really sure about the stupid-ness of the keyboard, as this added input method is something what poeple have always ask for.

Maybe TG-50 is just not for you?

[Zork]

Unregistered,

im thinking bout the same decision.
The Zire has the best HiRes display out there (that new transflective stuff ;) ), it offers a slot for cheap SD Cards, it offers Graffiti 2 with the traditional Graffiti area, it got a ARM CPU included which makes it possible to use the hundreds of OS 5 exclusive software packages out there, it offers a built in joystick (!!!!!!!!!) .... oops meant indeed "five way navigator" ;) , it also offers a MP3 player, got Kinoma Producer for the Mac within the package (means no more searchin for Kinoma movie sites and instead encoding your own Kinoma movies from your MPEG sources), it got software which reads eBooks for you ;), it got this built in camera which only needs 5 lux at 640 * 480.

The only thing its really missing is some flip cover. Sorry Sony, I really would have bought a T625 OS 5 Succesor (I also got that Clie. Bought even the MP3 hardware expansion), but Sony never released one. It delivered instead that TG50 trash, which is the most braindead PDA ive seen for a long time. Thumbboards are sh*t. Graffiti is way faster for input. And Sony is still the only ARM PDA producer which doesnt offer a joystick/joypad with their PDAs (and yep, indeed im using the PDA for playing too). This means that you cant play that kewl Sonic game with the Clie. Not even when its ported to the Clie, cause then you have to fight with the fact, that no Clie out there offers a joystick/joypad (and the hardware add on for our T625 isnt practical at all, cause in real life pocket sizes arent as limitless as in old graphic adventure games ;) ).
So if Sony is goin to anounce some real T successor within the next 2 weeks I would think again bout moving to the Zire, but right now the decision is made. What I really would have bought from sony would have been some OS 5 ARM T successor with HiRes+ and Virtual Graffiti (cause you work even faster with Graffiti when you could see your penstrokes). And no brick sized clumshell sh*t. Instead just flip covered like the TG50. And indeed with some joypad/joystick after all (wont care at all how its called officially ;) ).

Just 2 questions : Beside that im goin to buy most likely the Zire, I would still check in here, cause this forum is the best POS device forum ive ever seen on the net. But is there also some Palm POS 5 device forum on the net, which is as Palm POS 5 centric as this Clie forum is Clie centric ?
And the second one : MSImport crashed every now and then with my Mac and Missing Sync installed. But beside that prob, it were some awesome easy and fast solution. Is there a similiar solution avail for the Zire and a mounted SD card ? Means that the card will be mounted on the Macs desktop (with OS 9 and OS X) to transfer files that way from the Mac to the SD Card and vice versa ?

[jetro]

oh no one will win here. although the 2 PDA seems to compete againts each other, my opinion is that they serve to different audiences.

if bluetooth is a priority one would take the tg50. but to some a camera has more appeal than bluetooth so they would take the zire 71.

While I myself hate the buit-in keyboard in PDAs, to some its a requirement, thereby making the tg50 their choice.

But right now I must admit I'm leaning towards zire 71 because of its great value. If sony will counter these by lowering the price of the tg50 then we have a contest :)

for palm, had they included built in bluetooth/wifi, this would have been a killer.

[Zork]

jetro, both are major potentail security risks, so i avoid to use either WiFi or Bluetooth. Yep, both are ecrypted, but every thinking PC user knows that encryption means just that it will take at best a few months before everyone willing to get your personal data will get it. And you dont have the smallest control bout it, cause every of this device checks its environment by itself for similiar devices.
So Bluetooth and WiFi is nice, but right now its simply a security leak.

[icruise]

If the keyboard strikes you as stupid, then the TG-50 is not for you. Simple as that.

BTW Zork, I disagree about Bluetooth being a security risk -- you can turn off things like discoverability, and in any case you don't have to have it on when you aren't using it, plus the range is so short that in my mind the potential risks are very small.

[Zork]

icruise, the reason we cry bout switching most likely from the Clie to the Zire is, cause Sony is the only one offering HiRes+, kewl flip cover designs and Virtual Graffiti.
If Sony only would deliver all that within a T OS 5 ARM succesor and include even for the first time a joypad/joystick like every other ARM PDA developer out there it would be some killer hardware.
So even with the Zire offering right now the way better package then the only comparable ARM Clie, its still just some sort of compromise, cause it doesnt offer HiRes+ and it doesnt come with a flip cover (which means that with the cover its gettin uneccesarely huge and its taking some time and two hand usage to turn it on (the flip cover of the Clie is amazing useful when you using it while you are walking)).

And bout Bluetooth : Indeed you could turn it off. But where is its purpose then, when you have to have the PDA handy again to connect it for example with your mobile phone ;) ? And Bluetooth reaches appr. 10 meters. That means a few dozen people within the underground or at the catwalk.
And to clear this up : I dont state that Bluetooth is risky right now, but it has the potential to become a major security leak, cause of its architecture.

[nevarDeath]

Originally posted by jetro
oh no one will win here. although the 2 PDA seems to compete againts each other, my opinion is that they serve to different audiences.


That's what I was gonna say..

Originally posted by jetro
for palm, had they included built in bluetooth/wifi, this would have been a killer.

I totally agree!

[jamesj1k]

I personally NEED the voice recorder so this is no contest for me.

James

[graph101]

The reason why clie has lousy directional button is because sony wants us to buy the game pad. which is ****** uped

[jklfafa]

the zire 71 is very nice..it would have made me turn my head if i were still pocketpc

[jetro]

jetro, both are major potentail security risks, so i avoid to use either WiFi or Bluetooth. Yep, both are ecrypted, but every thinking PC user knows that encryption means just that it will take at best a few months before everyone willing to get your personal data will get it. And you dont have the smallest control bout it, cause every of this device checks its environment by itself for similiar devices.

so its like saying dont surf the net, or dont go to any network, or dont use any form of networking at all because they all are "potential security risk" I think i'll take the risk for now.. hey, i need the technology :) Bluetooth is working wonders for me now. If more hotspots grow here I'm sayin hello to wifi. Hmm.. now that I thought about it, its really a mistake by palm not to include buit-in bluetooth. Heck even their bluetooth card doesnt work on the zire 71

[tantousha]

Originally posted by jetro


so its like saying dont surf the net, or dont go to any network, or dont use any form of networking at all because they all are "potential security risk" I think i'll take the risk for now.. hey, i need the technology :) Bluetooth is working wonders for me now. If more hotspots grow here I'm sayin hello to wifi. Hmm.. now that I thought about it, its really a mistake by palm not to include buit-in bluetooth. Heck even their bluetooth card doesnt work on the zire 71

the bluetooth card doesn't work on the Zire? Whoa! I was mildly considering returning my TG50 and getting a Zire up until that point. I want some kind of connectivity. With the Wi-Fi SD card bumped until late fall (not that it would even work in the Zire) that would leave one with no connectivity options whatsoever! In today's connected world I think that not being able to take part in any of it is simply ludicris!

At any rate, I know that come this summer, I can pop a Wi-Fi memory stick into my TG and be visiting various wonderful hotspots around the globe with my trusty TG at my side, and bluetooth will only continue to gain more acceptance. I know for a fact that the 2004 Toyota Prius will have a built-in bluetooth network allowing you to use a cell phone handsfree in it...purdy cool if you ask me.

As for SD. What does though mean it's cheap? Using the same company, Sandisk as comparison, at Amazon.com they are both the same price. In Canada, it's a different story where a 128Mb memorystick goes for about $70-$100CDN wheres as a SD card goes for about $100-$120CDN. And those programs on SD cards are like $60! unreal.

[iJITSU]

TG- Faster processor, integrated screen protection, bluetooth, two methods of entry (free third party handwriting recognition or keyboard), better video playback, sleeker form factor, and voice recording.
The zire does have a slightly better screen, newer OS, and of course the camera, but after a two days of using it I pined for my TG and returned it. I hate cases and will no longer personally consider a pda that is not clam shell or doesn't offer an integrated screen cover. That said, I'm patiently waiting for Sony (or Palm for that matter) to release an OS5 sleek pda with virtual grafitti and all the other bells and whistles. But to each his own. The zire is a nice improvement for Palm and the screen has raised the bar in the pda world.

[pdagal]

Palm hasn't yet released OS 5 drivers for their Bluetooth SD card.

Originally posted by tantousha


the bluetooth card doesn't work on the Zire? Whoa!

[yOyOYoo]

I saw the Zire71, great screen, too bad about the dedicated graffiti area.. I see it as a big waste of screen space. Why not put virtual graffit there or a thumbboard there instead.

The thumbboard is not stupid to me. I switched from my NR70v to the TG50, and do not even regret going back to a smaller screen. I'm sure if a Tseries with 320 x480 screen comes out i'll probably switch to that, but to me the thumbboard makes better use than a dedicated graffiti area.

As for the Zire71, I feel that the joystick is quite CHEAP. Have you seen the joysticks on the Ericsson T68? While some people like it, i've seen 2 of my friends, and they HATE it, why because over time it gets loose and the tactile feedback is not that great. A 5 way navigator would be much much better. I would never want sony to put that stupid joystick on any future CLIEs, but that is just me.

Oh yeah, the Zire is plastic also, while the Tg50 is mostly metal. You can feel a big difference in quality between the two.

I'm pretty anxious to see what new sony models are gonna come out in the next few weeks, maybe you should wait a little...

[graph101]

The zire 71 is really impressive esp the screen, you feel that the screen is at your fingertips (not like TT) and its more sensitive too. i didnt like the shiny metal back, itll just attract fingerprints. but its not for me.

[Zork]

iJitsu,
the TG 50 offers absolutely nothing which the Zire aint offering too (and for thos which like to spread their personal and business data around the world ... simply buy the additional SD Bluetooth card ;) ).
The Zire has the best screen avail for any PDA out there, it is supported by any application out there (we all know the probs with the customized Sony HiRes libs :( ) and it offers a built in joystick. And it comes with a lot of software for every OS out there (not that Windows centric **** as with the Clie).

And the TG50 doenst even have a working input method. Thumbboards are useless. Everyone ever used a PDA with thumbboards knows that. Graffiti works way faster and nope, the TG 50 doesnt offer Graffiti support, cause w/o a Graffiti area it aint practical to enter data that way (it were even a prob on the far larger Newton Message pad screen to find screen space for the Graffiti input area :) ).
So the TG50 isnt comparable at all with the Zire, cause its missing almost every feature the Zire offers (and im not taking bout the buit in digicam which is a nice addon, but nothing more then that).
Sony missed its window of opportunity to release a real OS 5 T succesor and released instead that pointless TG50 junk, which you cant even use at all cause of the missing professional input method.

[Zork]

yooyoo, input with thumbboards is way slower. This stuff is for newbies only which arent familiar with PDAs. But experienced PDA users knows that its jsut a waste of time.
And the graffiti area is the huge advantage, cause otherwise you cant use Graffiti at all. A thumbboard would be just a waste of PDA space, cause no PDA pro uses it.
What would be even better surely would be a 480 * 320 display with Virtual Graffiti. that would be awesome, cause Virtual Graffiti indeed makes even faster input possible, cause it avoids wrong inputs (when you see your pen strokes you usually do less mistakes).
But Sony aint releasing a T succesor with HiRes+ and Virtual Graffiti. The instead released that useless newbie only thumbboard sh*t.
And bout the joystick : Perhaps its hard to use and its not best quality. But its there !!! And w/o it, its virtually impossible to play most 2 axes games. Its that easy. So the TG50 is therefor useless for games too.
So its some easy decision for Sony : either release a HiRes+ flip cover ARM POS 5 device with Virtual Graffiti and some Joypad/Joystick built in (like Palm and every (!!!) other ARM PDA developer did) or simply get familiar with the reasons why you lost second place according to the recent quarter figures from PC Data to HP and gave back market share to Palm.

[Zork]

jetro, the net gives you some real advantage, which aint possible to get w/o usin it. But Bluetooth is just another interface w/o any additional purpose. IrDA does exactly the same and you are in perfect control of your data.

[graph101]

Zork, zire71 is for you. but not for everyone. im more of a TG50 person.