1SRC Podcast 121

[Alan G]

Guess what? Palm wasn't sold (I told you so) and they are breaking records for Treo sales! This week's 1SRC Editorial and more! [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=1855)]

[JAmerican]

Not necessary. If you were following CNBC, you would have noticed that Moto did worse than expected which halted the deal. Palm was in favor of Moto over Nokia for the obvious reasons. But they also talked about Google and Microsoft being potential players as well (which I talked about earlier). M$ and Palm are very close and I doubt that M$ would want Palm to go to Google or Motorola.

All I know is that it ain't over until the Colligan says so.

JAmerican

[dpc]

Hey alan, just listened to the podcast, i can't seem to find the thread in treocentral where we find out that palm bought chattermail, maybe i misunderstood something you said in the podcast? by the way, your analysis on the buyout rumors totally makes sense!

[intellidryad]

OK, so we now have Colligan hinting at the presence of a new PalmOS, I wonder how much longer Palm is holding it back. Since they don't do much to change the hardware, they really need to change the software soon if they want to keep growing. Many of us are growing tired of all the "new" products that are mostly the same.

[g-funkster]

Hey alan, just listened to the podcast, i can't seem to find the thread in treocentral where we find out that palm bought chattermail, maybe i misunderstood something you said in the podcast? by the way, your analysis on the buyout rumors totally makes sense!
I don't remember there being an exact wording of this, but the author (Marc) said in a post, responding to whether 'chatteremail' would be open-sourced, that it was not his decision to make, which leads us to conclude that someone else now owns the code.

Unless someone has something more specific. :D

[dpc]

I don't remember there being an exact wording of this, but the author (Marc) said in a post, responding to whether 'chatteremail' would be open-sourced, that it was not his decision to make, which leads us to conclude that someone else now owns the code.

Unless someone has something more specific. :D
Oh, i see. On top of that, I just ran into this posting by Gadgets on the Go,

"A TreoCentral member by the name “gene” looked up the domain chattermail.com and posted that the new owner of the domain “chattermail.com” is none other than Palm, Inc. Well, well, well. That certainly changes the picture of what could be going on over at Palm. It would seem that Palm acquired more than just Marc Blanc."

Sounds pretty sweet!

[Vampire Lestat]

STOP drinking while podcasting!
After hearing the 10th gulp I gave up and ended the show in anger.

[Alan G]

Not necessary. If you were following CNBC, you would have noticed that Moto did worse than expected which halted the deal. Palm was in favor of Moto over Nokia for the obvious reasons. But they also talked about Google and Microsoft being potential players as well (which I talked about earlier). M$ and Palm are very close and I doubt that M$ would want Palm to go to Google or Motorola.

All I know is that it ain't over until the Colligan says so.


Ed already said the company wasn't for sale. That's good enough for me.

Alan G

[Alan G]

dpc-

The TreoCentral thread can be found here (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1223216&postcount=103).

Alan G

[Alan G]

OK, so we now have Colligan hinting at the presence of a new PalmOS, I wonder how much longer Palm is holding it back. Since they don't do much to change the hardware, they really need to change the software soon if they want to keep growing. Many of us are growing tired of all the "new" products that are mostly the same.


This all depends on how much work Palm has really done over the last two years. Palm OS II can be very close to being done, or it can still be a year away. It is really hard to know at this point. I think the Hawk, when released will be an indicator. If it ships with Palm OS 5.x, then I would guess that Palm OS II is still a ways off.

Alan G

[danielmaradona]

Good thing that Palm is not for sale, rather they are doing everything to expand the horizon of their business by acquiring small companies that can contribute to the development of Palm OS as a serious mobile platform. I hope that these coming months Palm will publicly unveil their plans to release the updated version of the Palm OS that runs on Linux.

Good point Alan for stressing the difference between PPC and Palm in terms of simplicity. Most of the task that you do in everyday use of your mobile device is made even simpler by using palm. In PPC you need to do a lot of pushing the buttons and getting in the corners of the device just to do simple task, just what I experienced in using the Dopod 838 Pro.

[holvoetn]

Alan,

unless I hugely misunderstood you mentioned TWICE the 1src chat was going to take place Saturday at 9PM NY, 6PM Pacific, which you claim should correspond to Sunday 2 PM GMT. That's a difference of 17 hours ...

I know we had DST change this weekend in Europe but THAT huge difference in timezones is not correct, me thinks ;)

Other then that, great show. Keep the slurps coming :D

[Alan G]

the 1src chat was going to take place Saturday at 9PM NY, 6PM Pacific, which you claim should correspond to Sunday 2 PM GMT. That's a difference of 17 hours ...

I'll have to go back and double-check my info. Looks like I may have to take a class in how to use the World Clock on my TX effectively! LOL

Alan G

[Vampire Lestat]

I just mailed this letter to Ed Colligan at:
Palm, Inc. Corporate Headquarters
950 W. Maude Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94085
====================================
Dear Mr. Colligan/Palm Inc.,
For more than 10 years Palm OS has been valued by millions of people. I am one of those consumers (and occasional leisure developer) who has purchased numerous Palm handhelds and has become accustomed to relying on Palm OS to remain organized and entertained on a daily basis.
I am writing this letter because I am increasingly dissatisfied with Palm's apparent objective of gradually abandoning handheld development.
Treos are great devices for consumers who wish to own a phone-centric device capable of average mobile computing. However, it is the opinion of many long time Palm supporters that thinner TX style devices with 320x480 screens are a bare minimum in screen real-estate in order to assure a satisfactory mobile computing experience. Watching movies, playing games, reviewing PIM info, reading eBooks, viewing spreadsheets, etc are all significantly more enjoyable on a 320x480 screen. Adopting and embracing mobile computing relies heavily on the visual experience. A Treo with a 320x320 screen simply is inadequate in order to meet one of Palm's vaunted objectives i.e., promoting and selling the best mobile computing devices.
Treos have a major role to play in Palm's long term success. However, there is also a big market of handheld consumers. HP, Dell and other traditional Palm competitors are apparently pulling out of the handheld market. Rather than following in the footsteps of those companies, Palm should be using that error by the competition as an opportunity to move in and strengthen its presence in the handheld market segment. If HTC continues to make pda-phones then there has to be money in it. And since HTC products are overpriced and hard to buy in the USA and Canada, Palm still has free reign in North America.
In the last 2 years, handheld sales have crashed in such a way that it is nonsensical to conclude that a 10 year old market segment has given up on handhelds and simply prefers Treos. A large number of consumers would purchase 320x480 handhelds IF those devices contained value added technology like that found in the Treo e.g., a camera, cellular, mic, removable battery, etc. Here are a few basic reasons for the drop in handheld sales:
- The lack of new handhelds by Palm.
- The lack of adequate contemporary technology inside Palm handhelds.
- Many Palm fans are holding on to their old devices while waiting for the latter 2 points to be answered.
- Many Palm fans are experiencing with WM devices, seeking better hardware/software, waiting for Palm to upgrade its line.
- Some users are migrating to Treos.
For many Palm fans, it is discouraging and destructive to hear the CEO repeatedly state that Palm expects and is managing a 40 to 50% handheld sales decline quarter to quarter. A CEO should instead be explaining that he will continue to invest in Treos but is also working hard with designers and engineers to reinvigorate handheld sales.
Palm has a following of dedicated Palm OS fans somewhat like Apple enjoys. This type of loyal consumer base is hard to get and once a company has it, it should do everything in its power to protect it. Planning for the demise of handhelds is a self fulfilling prophecy that disgruntles and alienates a significant portion of the user base. The success of the Treo should not become an excuse to abandon a valuable part of the traditional base; which can be leveraged for the company's overall prosperity if only the right products were presented to it.
Palm has experienced some dramatic and often very dangerous changes in the last decade e.g., Palm Inc. split, being in the red, Sony abandoning Palm OS, loss of Palm OS rights to Access Co., etc. However, Palm is currently experiencing a period of prosperity due to the cell phone frenzy worldwide. However, dear Mr. Colligan, you need to fully understand that despite the Treo success, the Palm OS base is faltering and needs your action in order to stop the trend. Evidence of the falter is found in the reduction of Palm OS dedicated websites (which many are increasingly blending in WM content), IRC, blog, Usenet and various forum communities are drying up fast, and equally troubling, the number of OS hackers, developers and leisure programmers is decreasing fast as well. You need to know that vast numbers of Treo fans are phone-centric consumers and they are not translating into an active Palm OS mobile computing savvy community. Palm needs to design/sell new handhelds to turn this tide.
Although sometimes controversial, Palm has the respect of millions of consumers because it has a reputation of being an exciting underdog company that cyclically surprises the industry by presenting fun, exciting, innovative devices. But perhaps equally important, Palm is also known for its unique community of Palm OS loyal fans who promote the products word of mouth; exponentially. Without the latter, Palm, in a sense, becomes commoditized and loses its appeal. Please protect this community by offering powerful, fully featured new handhelds.
When Palm decided, to the dismay of many hardcore Palm OS fans to start selling WM devices, consumers were told that Palm was dedicated to offering greater choice. Isn't maintaining the handheld line also offering Palm consumers greater choice?
For Palm to get a clear picture if handhelds deserve a future in its business model, it is imperative that Palm present new handhelds yearly and that those handhelds have superior technology than that found in the phone-centric Treo; technology that makes handhelds superior mobile computing focused devices.
Here are a few examples of what many fans are asking for:
- 320x480
- OLED (wide angles, high refresh rate, rich colors, thin, low power)
- Solid unified thin design (like the TX)
- High quality camera with flash.
- 624 MHz+ (with switch to lower to 312, 416 MHz for battery savings)
- 128 MB ROM NVFS
- 4GB+ SD slot
- Mic
- LED
- Vibrating alarm
- Front twin speakers
- Unit capable of standing up on desk for movie viewing
- Mini USB connector
- Better sound chip. Get rid of white noise. Tremble/bass controls.
- OS software to add audio effects (concert hall, etc)
- Cellular, Wi-Fi, EVDO, BT, and IR radios.
- VoIP. Video-phone.
- Gaming friendly large buttons (like on the Life Drive)
- If including HD, system operations should work off of RAM/ROM (avoid HD lag).
- Removable battery.
- Optional snap on, slide keyboard.
- Graffiti 3 with single stroke 'T's, 'K's, etc.
- Single handed heavy/sturdy cradle with no light built in.
Help us help you.
A fan who is still hanging in there, hoping for a renewed focus on handhelds.

<Signed>

[g-funkster]

What motivation does Palm have to strengthen their PDA lineup?
Palm smartphone business, which was 86% of total revenue in the third quarter, performed well. (source (http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/techgames/10346154_2.html))

[BaDZeD]

Great podcast Alan! (As usual of course) It was almost as much fun as the Ultra music festival this weekend :D Delighted to see Palm still being on their own and pursuing (aggressively as it seems) their own strategy. Hope Palm os II comes out soon and Ed wasnt just talking about "Garnet Tweaking" (from some of the previous interviews, especially from Andy Brown last month it kinda seemed to me he was talking about doing just that) which would be easier.Then again, a major UI designer/firm does mean something major is coming up :D
Thanks again for the great job at finding those wonderful titbits that make the Palm news frontier so much more interesting.

[Alan G]

Delighted to see Palm still being on their own and pursuing (aggressively as it seems) their own strategy.

Week 2 and counting...


Hope Palm os II comes out soon and Ed wasnt just talking about "Garnet Tweaking" (from some of the previous interviews, especially from Andy Brown last month it kinda seemed to me he was talking about doing just that) which would be easier.

I suspect that there are two projects going on: a project to complete Palm OS II; and a project to tweak Palm OS 5.x to work on incremental software updates.

In other words while Palm is working on a new Linux OS, they are also tweaking new products like the Phone app in the Treo 680. They are also "tweaking" the OS in terms of patches for devices that have already shipped. The Treo 680 camera fix would be a tweak. I'm not sure if you'd call the Treo 700p ROM maintenance release a "tweak" or not. I don't think I'd call the Treo 700p maintenance release a "tweak"; I'd call it an upgrade or service pack.

Then again, a major UI designer/firm does mean something major is coming up

There is a lot going on, we just don't know about it. I'm looking forward to May/June of this year.

Thanks again for the great job at finding those wonderful titbits that make the Palm news frontier so much more interesting.

Thank you, and you're welcome.

Alan G

[ewah]

I just mailed this letter to Ed Colligan at:
Palm, Inc. Corporate Headquarters
950 W. Maude Ave.

Here are a few examples of what many fans are asking for:
- 320x480
- OLED (wide angles, high refresh rate, rich colors, thin, low power)
- Solid unified thin design (like the TX)
- High quality camera with flash.
- 624 MHz+ (with switch to lower to 312, 416 MHz for battery savings)
- 128 MB ROM NVFS
- 4GB+ SD slot
- Mic
- LED
- Vibrating alarm
- Front twin speakers
- Unit capable of standing up on desk for movie viewing
- Mini USB connector
- Better sound chip. Get rid of white noise. Tremble/bass controls.
- OS software to add audio effects (concert hall, etc)
- Cellular, Wi-Fi, EVDO, BT, and IR radios.
- VoIP. Video-phone.
- Gaming friendly large buttons (like on the Life Drive)
- If including HD, system operations should work off of RAM/ROM (avoid HD lag).
- Removable battery.
- Optional snap on, slide keyboard.
- Graffiti 3 with single stroke 'T's, 'K's, etc.
- Single handed heavy/sturdy cradle with no light built in.
Help us help you.
A fan who is still hanging in there, hoping for a renewed focus on handhelds.

<Signed>

I agree with you. I have purchased a nokia n770 and now the n800. It has alot of the features you speak of here. The biggest problem with it is lack of a really good PIM app. People are trying and I give it maybe another six months and there would be no reason for me to go back to palm. I love my n800 and nokia's attitude toward open source, community and they actually update there software on a regular basis.

Not to bash palm, I've used them since my palm V, but they have let it whither and die and I think it is just too late.

tim

[Vampire Lestat]

I mailed the letters this afternoon.
Should take about 7 or 8 days to go from Montreal to Sunnyvale, California.
I sent 1 to Ed Colligan and a copy to the 'ATTN: Board of Directors'.

If/when I get a reply, I will post a copy immediately on the 'Big 3' sites (PIC, 1src and Brighthand).

To all handheld fans, if you are feeling up to it, write a letter also. Every bit helps I guess.
Palm, Inc. Corporate Headquarters
950 W. Maude Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94085
=================

[Modnar]

I mailed the letters this afternoon.
Should take about 7 or 8 days to go from Montreal to Sunnyvale, California.
I sent 1 to Ed Colligan and a copy to the 'ATTN: Board of Directors'.

If/when I get a reply, I will post a copy immediately on the 'Big 3' sites (PIC, 1src and Brighthand).

To all handheld fans, if you are feeling up to it, write a letter also. Every bit helps I guess.
Palm, Inc. Corporate Headquarters
950 W. Maude Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94085
=================

Heh now thats legendary!

*subscribes to the thread :D*

[blues]

I just listened to the podcast in anticipation of Alan's comments on the rumors in the news about Palm potentially being sold, or in the process, or whatever...

Nobody decodes confusing and conflicting information in the news and by forum posters better than Alan.

[Drunkard]

I agree with you. I have purchased a nokia n770 and now the n800. It has alot of the features you speak of here. The biggest problem with it is lack of a really good PIM app. People are trying and I give it maybe another six months and there would be no reason for me to go back to palm. I love my n800 and nokia's attitude toward open source, community and they actually update there software on a regular basis.

Not to bash palm, I've used them since my palm V, but they have let it whither and die and I think it is just too late.

tim

I hope your wrong.

I also hope that Palm has been working on something new, as others have called it the Hawk and Palm OS II. And I hope we know about it sooner rather than later.

[ewah]

I hope your wrong.

I also hope that Palm has been working on something new, as others have called it the Hawk and Palm OS II. And I hope we know about it sooner rather than later.

I hope I'm wrong too. I truely think palm was the best of breed for a long time, I'm still milking my lifedrive. It doesn't sound like the treo's have any better web browsing, emailing than my lifedrive. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have a browser that looks as ugly as palm's. The n800 uses the opera browser, it supports full javascript, flash (v7 only thou) and webpages look like webpages, work like webpages. It is just the difference between night and day. Another thing, the n800 has full multi-tasking. I can be in the middle of email downloading, switch over to the menu, pick web browsing, back to the menu, pick something else, etc.. I can't say enough about the n800, that being said thou if palm does come out with the hawk and it is very good I have no doubt that I would switch back, but I would say it needs to be 10 fold what the lifedrive is/was.

[Alan G]

Nobody decodes confusing and conflicting information in the news and by forum posters better than Alan.

Thanks Blues.

Wait until you hear this week's little rumor nugget. :)

Alan G

[Alan G]

I also hope that Palm has been working on something new, as others have called it the Hawk and Palm OS II. And I hope we know about it sooner rather than later.

I've been drawing little boxes and lines connecting those boxes and reading tea leaves. There are some major things in the works at Palm. We're going to start hearing more about this stuff soon. As always, I have no inside info here, however the signs are unmistakable. Besides, the Magic 8-Ball has been throwing off some weird vibes.

Alan G

[holvoetn]

Thanks Blues.

Wait until you hear this week's little rumor nugget. :)

Alan GWhat ? YOU are going to work for Palm too ? :rolleyes:

[Alan G]

No, I'm not. That would be too exciting! I couldn't possibly wait until the next podcast to drop that bomb.

However, Palm, you guys know how to get a hold of me if you would like to discuss my contract.

Alan G

[Modnar]

No, I'm not. That would be too exciting! I couldn't possibly wait until the next podcast to drop that bomb.

However, Palm, you guys know how to get a hold of me if you would like to discuss my contract.

Alan G
Heh not that would be great to have an insider feeding us info :P


I do wonder what the rumor is!

[Alan G]

If I were to go to work for Palm, and let me just state again that I have not been in contact with anyone, I'd likely have to sign a NDA. As it was, when I visited the Palm headquaters, I had to be escorted around the building by a Palm employee at all times and I had to wear this awful visitor's badge with this big red "V" on it. That was the signal for any Palm employee to lock their computers and flee. LOL And I'm not kidding.

Alan G

[JAmerican]

I just mailed this letter to Ed Colligan at:
Palm, Inc. Corporate Headquarters
950 W. Maude Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94085
====================================
Dear Mr. Colligan/Palm Inc.,
For more than 10 years Palm OS has been valued by millions of people. I am one of those consumers (and occasional leisure developer) who has purchased numerous Palm handhelds and has become accustomed to relying on Palm OS to remain organized and entertained on a daily basis.
I am writing this letter because I am increasingly dissatisfied with Palm's apparent objective of gradually abandoning handheld development.
Treos are great devices for consumers who wish to own a phone-centric device capable of average mobile computing. However, it is the opinion of many long time Palm supporters that thinner TX style devices with 320x480 screens are a bare minimum in screen real-estate in order to assure a satisfactory mobile computing experience. Watching movies, playing games, reviewing PIM info, reading eBooks, viewing spreadsheets, etc are all significantly more enjoyable on a 320x480 screen. Adopting and embracing mobile computing relies heavily on the visual experience. A Treo with a 320x320 screen simply is inadequate in order to meet one of Palm's vaunted objectives i.e., promoting and selling the best mobile computing devices.
Treos have a major role to play in Palm's long term success. However, there is also a big market of handheld consumers. HP, Dell and other traditional Palm competitors are apparently pulling out of the handheld market. Rather than following in the footsteps of those companies, Palm should be using that error by the competition as an opportunity to move in and strengthen its presence in the handheld market segment. If HTC continues to make pda-phones then there has to be money in it. And since HTC products are overpriced and hard to buy in the USA and Canada, Palm still has free reign in North America.
In the last 2 years, handheld sales have crashed in such a way that it is nonsensical to conclude that a 10 year old market segment has given up on handhelds and simply prefers Treos. A large number of consumers would purchase 320x480 handhelds IF those devices contained value added technology like that found in the Treo e.g., a camera, cellular, mic, removable battery, etc. Here are a few basic reasons for the drop in handheld sales:
- The lack of new handhelds by Palm.
- The lack of adequate contemporary technology inside Palm handhelds.
- Many Palm fans are holding on to their old devices while waiting for the latter 2 points to be answered.
- Many Palm fans are experiencing with WM devices, seeking better hardware/software, waiting for Palm to upgrade its line.
- Some users are migrating to Treos.
For many Palm fans, it is discouraging and destructive to hear the CEO repeatedly state that Palm expects and is managing a 40 to 50% handheld sales decline quarter to quarter. A CEO should instead be explaining that he will continue to invest in Treos but is also working hard with designers and engineers to reinvigorate handheld sales.
Palm has a following of dedicated Palm OS fans somewhat like Apple enjoys. This type of loyal consumer base is hard to get and once a company has it, it should do everything in its power to protect it. Planning for the demise of handhelds is a self fulfilling prophecy that disgruntles and alienates a significant portion of the user base. The success of the Treo should not become an excuse to abandon a valuable part of the traditional base; which can be leveraged for the company's overall prosperity if only the right products were presented to it.
Palm has experienced some dramatic and often very dangerous changes in the last decade e.g., Palm Inc. split, being in the red, Sony abandoning Palm OS, loss of Palm OS rights to Access Co., etc. However, Palm is currently experiencing a period of prosperity due to the cell phone frenzy worldwide. However, dear Mr. Colligan, you need to fully understand that despite the Treo success, the Palm OS base is faltering and needs your action in order to stop the trend. Evidence of the falter is found in the reduction of Palm OS dedicated websites (which many are increasingly blending in WM content), IRC, blog, Usenet and various forum communities are drying up fast, and equally troubling, the number of OS hackers, developers and leisure programmers is decreasing fast as well. You need to know that vast numbers of Treo fans are phone-centric consumers and they are not translating into an active Palm OS mobile computing savvy community. Palm needs to design/sell new handhelds to turn this tide.
Although sometimes controversial, Palm has the respect of millions of consumers because it has a reputation of being an exciting underdog company that cyclically surprises the industry by presenting fun, exciting, innovative devices. But perhaps equally important, Palm is also known for its unique community of Palm OS loyal fans who promote the products word of mouth; exponentially. Without the latter, Palm, in a sense, becomes commoditized and loses its appeal. Please protect this community by offering powerful, fully featured new handhelds.
When Palm decided, to the dismay of many hardcore Palm OS fans to start selling WM devices, consumers were told that Palm was dedicated to offering greater choice. Isn't maintaining the handheld line also offering Palm consumers greater choice?
For Palm to get a clear picture if handhelds deserve a future in its business model, it is imperative that Palm present new handhelds yearly and that those handhelds have superior technology than that found in the phone-centric Treo; technology that makes handhelds superior mobile computing focused devices.
Here are a few examples of what many fans are asking for:
- 320x480
- OLED (wide angles, high refresh rate, rich colors, thin, low power)
- Solid unified thin design (like the TX)
- High quality camera with flash.
- 624 MHz+ (with switch to lower to 312, 416 MHz for battery savings)
- 128 MB ROM NVFS
- 4GB+ SD slot
- Mic
- LED
- Vibrating alarm
- Front twin speakers
- Unit capable of standing up on desk for movie viewing
- Mini USB connector
- Better sound chip. Get rid of white noise. Tremble/bass controls.
- OS software to add audio effects (concert hall, etc)
- Cellular, Wi-Fi, EVDO, BT, and IR radios.
- VoIP. Video-phone.
- Gaming friendly large buttons (like on the Life Drive)
- If including HD, system operations should work off of RAM/ROM (avoid HD lag).
- Removable battery.
- Optional snap on, slide keyboard.
- Graffiti 3 with single stroke 'T's, 'K's, etc.
- Single handed heavy/sturdy cradle with no light built in.
Help us help you.
A fan who is still hanging in there, hoping for a renewed focus on handhelds.

<Signed>

It does seem like Palm has really given up on their PDA lines. I mean Garnet is just patched the hell up. Even Treos are feeling ill effects. There needs to be a change. People are just going to move over to devices like the NOkia E90, The BlackJack, The HTC Vox (S720). Devices that are innovative are the ones that will rule the market. Palm needs to bring out a device like the TX but with greater stability, cellular radios and basically all what you said above. The thing I dislike is that Palm knows how to do it but doesn't. They don't experiment on what they know, they experiment and sell what they don't know (Case and Point: LifeDrive). I thank Apple for the iPhone because now Palm will start to release widescreen phones, even though they technically will be following Apple. Very sad. We ask and we don't get so we move on.

If you don't get a response, tell Palm your moving to the Nokia E90 or to a WM phone. Seems like thats what they care about: Sales not Suggestions.

JAmerican

[lmame]

I agree with JAmerican and Vampire Lestat :)
Since Sony is gone, Palm made really poor effort (on the visible side of the moon) for its customers :( and I guess if some of us still have their TH55 or UX50 is a sign that something is quite really really wrong... I mean, could you imagine us keeping the same cellphone for nearly 4 years now? I mean I got a SE W880i now and it's not the state of the art cellphone, what did I have 4 years ago? T68i?
The more Ed is waiting, the more difficult it will be to release something that matches Pocket PC...

The thing that is annoying me too is that Palm Inc has the capabilities to rapidly upgrade its hardware, the proof they announced that an update to Windows Mobile 6 will be available for the Treo 750.

It's true that the revenue is up (+5%) and Treo sales are a record (+23%) :) but the profit is just dropping (-61%) so you know I guess everyone can use figures to tell anything...
As for the rumours, It seems that now the Palm share is "too expensive" for a buyout :) (by the way, ed continues to sell its share to a good price, lucky him ;) ).

By the way, I just don't care who buys Palm Inc (or not), if it's Motorola, Nokia, M&M's, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Playboy or Nintendo, I just hope someone will kick Ed in the *** to make him release (at last) something good on Palm OS.
If he was working for Sony he'd be long fired or his department would have been stopped...

[JAmerican]

Ed already said the company wasn't for sale. That's good enough for me.

Alan G

Ed says a lot of things and currently there are better WM Treos out then Palm OS Treos. Could this be apart of the Windows/Palm deal? I mean Exchange Sever support was added to the Treo 650 of all devices just some time ago. I really have a feeling that Microsoft will buy out Palm if not that they will get more control as the time goes on.



The other day, I talked to a guy in my department and we started talking about handhelds. He took it out and realized immediately that it was a T5. He said he's looking to get a converged device. I of course sponsored for Palm saying the Treo but then as I was about to list Treos from Verizon (his cellular company), I realized that there was only the Treo 700p; which is bogged with issues from what I hear. He would either need Cingular for the 680 (probably better for him) or get a 700wx (which is a different platform). I'm done listening to Ed because he frankly doesn't listen to us.

Second issue would be using the device. I mean it looked like he was confortable with the T5's large screen and Graffiti 2. So would he want to go to a smaller, bulkier device with small keyboard? Devices like the PPC-6700 would possibly be even better for him for typing and graffiti. A device that Palm has yet to even consider.

JAmerican

[Alan G]

Ed says a lot of things and currently there are better WM Treos out then Palm OS Treos.

Sometimes, Ed even talks about Palm. As for WM being better than Palm OS, that decision is up to you. I refuse to be dragged into a my religion is better than your religion debate.

I mean Exchange Sever support was added to the Treo 650 of all devices just some time ago.

Yes, Palm and DatViz are just two Exchange ActiveSync licensees. The Treo 700p and 680 also have Exchange ActiveSync support. So?

I really have a feeling that Microsoft will buy out Palm if not that they will get more control as the time goes on.

I'm not so sure. Microsoft has been declared an monopoly. I'm not sure how willing the government would be to allowing Microsoft to control both Palm OS and Windows Mobile. If Microsoft eliminates the Palm OS, well, that would just be sad.

I'm done listening to Ed because he frankly doesn't listen to us.

And that is fine, but once again, you're a power user. You're not the target market.

Second issue would be using the device. I mean it looked like he was confortable with the T5's large screen and Graffiti 2. So would he want to go to a smaller, bulkier device with small keyboard? Devices like the PPC-6700 would possibly be even better for him for typing and graffiti. A device that Palm has yet to even consider.

That is your personal view, and I'm totally fine with that.

Alan G

[intellidryad]

I'm not so sure. Microsoft has been declared an monopoly. I'm not sure how willing the government would be to allowing Microsoft to control both Palm OS and Windows Mobile. If Microsoft eliminates the Palm OS, well, that would just be sad.
If someone kills Palm OS, it will be Palm inc., as is seems to be doing slowly.


And that is fine, but once again, you're a power user. You're not the target market.

Fine, target the common Joe, release boring products, even the public will get bored.
Companies release flagship products that doesn't seem to make money at the time of the release. Why? Just look what the Prius did for Toyota. It is cool, draws the attention of the public to the whole brand. It practically serves as a "halo". It gives Toyota a positive image which makes people want to buy it's products, although most people can't afford a Prius and will choose a Corolla instead. Sony also does alot of releases of this kind, such as the NZ90 as a proof of concept that makes the whole Clie line look better.

Palm used to have the Vx, now it doesn't. The Treo 600 was once legendary, yet they commoditized it by releasing too many clones, just as what Moto did with their RAZR clones. Even the "target market" will get sick and tired, then they move on.

[g-funkster]

It's a shame that this topic needs a continuous beating, a bit of time travel should help. Go back to 2004 (http://www.technewsworld.com/story/34154.html) when Sony announces the halt of Clie sales in the US, effectively ending the Clie line:

Sony today said it will stop developing and selling new handheld PDAs in the United States this year, exiting what the company called "a market in decline" and possibly striking a blow to software maker PalmSource.
...
The market for handhelds has been in decline of late, with worldwide shipments falling 21 percent to 2.45 million units in the first quarter, according to research firm IDC. Demand in the business and consumer markets has cooled despite new devices and lower prices.

In the first quarter, according to the IDC report, Sony lost its No. 2 market share position to Hewlett-Packard. HP has about 18 percent of the market, and Sony has slightly more than 16 percent. Palm maintains its No. 1 position in the PDA market with 36 percent. Now, how could you argue that Sony's products were boring, or that the lacked creativity? They had features up the wazoo and form factors to choose from.

And yet, sales were declining. This is the trend, folks, and you could argue that Palm is too small a company that doesn't care about its customers, or you could look at a huge company like Dell, whose latest PDA remains the old, yet trusty (for some, yuck) Axim X51 and understand that the world spins in a different direction nowadays.

[lmame]

Sony at the time was more known for enhanced Palm OS PDA, I mean 480x320 (or 320x480), MP3 player, great movie player (MQV / M4V), dedicated DSP, great web browser (Netfront), picsel viewer / browser, lots of RAM, Wifi and bluetooth inside and so on...
Yet the downside was often the price, if you remember the TH55 or UX50, or, worst of all, NZ90 and VZ90 you get the point...
There was a medium class too but in this aera people often chose Palm, at the time it was rather "I want something cool I get a high end Clie, I want to work and have something basic I take a Palm".
Yet it's not entirely true as Palm made some pretty Palm at the time to counter Sony with the T3 for example which was very good at a very good price :)

The reasons why Sony got out, well I don't really know... Not enough sells, they got bored, they lost money or it was some kind of beta test for other projects (VAIO U series, PSP).
Perhaps also they have some different goals, remember when they relased had disk MP3 players (NWH1 had 20 GB), it seems everything is stopped now :) they let Ipod take it all ;)

Yet, if I may say something I bought some Palm PDA too :) but every time I had trouble with them...
T3 before patch: Good bye SD cards,
T5: good morning reset,
Lifedrive: Good but slow,
Yet it seems the TX is quite good ;)

Now, let me tell you a little story on why I got some troubles with Palm:
When I bought a T3, and I had, like a lot of us, some weird troubles with burning SD, I contacted Palm Support Client Service. They told me "your SD card are faulty, it's not our fault".
As a lot of people had the same troubles I made a little inquiry and, as I had some friends working some big distributors (FNAC, a bit like Toy R Us for tech, one of Palm official distributor) I learned that Palm asked them for a total recall of the T3 and to stop selling T3 making up like a "no stock".
BUT also they had to tell that there were no kown problems if someone tried to see them with their SD card problems....
With these intels (I had three different sources) I contacted Palm France and asked the person responsible for press and communication (I might have phoned twice actually). She denied.
Yet some weeks later, miracle, a patch is released :)

Now I guess that's why I'm not really confident in Palm since then :)

Yet I admit that I had problems with Sony PDA, I had to change a UX50 (faulty mother board) and my NX70V had some troubles auto ejecting Memory stick :) Yet I just had to contact Clie Link and I got my Clie back repaired in two or three weeks.

Still I had no problems with Tapwave Zodiac and Clie... always with Palm... I guess I might a bad karma thing :p

I guess I could only imagine what could be a clie nowadays:
-> 64 MB RAM,
-> 4 Go internal flash SSD memory (like Vaio U 90 series) with a 64 MB partition for internal backup,
-> Ir, Wifi and Bluetooth 2,
-> 2 mega pixels camera,
-> keyboard,
-> Netfront, Picsel Browser,
-> MP3 Player, MP4 player, DivX player,
-> DSP for audio and video,
-> OLED screen in 480x320 landscape and portrait in hardware (like the zodiac), perhaps more, like VGA if they tweaked Palm OS 5.4 or with Cobalt,
-> Palm OS Cobalt 6.1 tweaked,
-> CF and MS slot,

I guess that would have been the one next to the VZ90...

[Alan G]

Sony also does alot of releases of this kind, such as the NZ90 as a proof of concept that makes the whole Clie line look better.

At $800 my Sony Clie only cleaned out my bank account. I was really let down by how unimpressive that device was. 11MB of usable RAM? Shame on Sony. Double sham on me for buying it. I'm so glad that I hadn't sold my Tungsten T before I had purchased the Clie.

Alan G

[Alan G]

Now, how could you argue that Sony's products were boring, or that the lacked creativity? They had features up the wazoo and form factors to choose from.

And yet, sales were declining. This is the trend, folks, and you could argue that Palm is too small a company that doesn't care about its customers, or you could look at a huge company like Dell, whose latest PDA remains the old, yet trusty (for some, yuck) Axim X51 and understand that the world spins in a different direction nowadays.

Well said.

Alan G

[lmame]

*** sigh *** ok Alan, whatever... I guess there is no point speaking to people who just don't accept discussion, criticism, analysys and figures...

Be happy with Ed, have a great wedding and a lot of baby Palm, that's all I hope for you ;)

[intellidryad]

T3 before patch: Good bye SD cards,
T5: good morning reset,
Lifedrive: Good but slow,

Seems that all your Palms are "good" :)