Anyone realize the sales danger to Pocket PCs?

[patryn121]

I sold PDAs for a LONG time and used them even longer. Compaq abandoned the built-in CF port a long time ago when Palm set the standard as the Secure Digital card. It allowed the IPaq to become smaller, use less battery, but mainly to lower their price by using the slot the Palm used.

Now only the Toshiba 740 comes with both a CF slot and SD slot. For IPaq you need to buy a sled for CF use.

BUT now you can buy an NX-60 for $399 and have the precious CF slot so many business want! On top of that if Eruware can make a driver to use different wireless cards, etc, then they've just made Sony a ton of money by making the Clie "standard."

Personally I see Eruware being bought by Sony. More companies saying 'ok' to palms because of the CF slot. More people buying Clie's because the memory isn't 'propritarty' anymore. And on top of it you still get more battery life from a NX then you'll ever get out of an IPaq or other at a smaller size and with more useful options.

This is a win-win situation and I think the beginning of Pocket PCs slide to either bigger units or jumping on the palm bandwagon that have the CF slot.

Oh yeah...
Serena

[sindu]

When Eruware release the driver, it really makes me think about the CF slot and even makes me think of getting NZ...

[TechnoCat]

WTF is wrong with the friggin' forum software?!? Why can't it remember that I'm registered and logged in for more than 20 seconds!

Oh well, reposting after logging in (twice) so that I get reply notifications...
Originally posted by patryn121
Compaq abandoned the built-in CF port a long time ago when Palm set the standard as the Secure Digital card. It allowed the IPaq to become smaller, use less battery, but mainly to lower their price by using the slot the Palm used.

Now only the Toshiba 740 comes with both a CF slot and SD slot. For IPaq you need to buy a sled for CF use.
The Dell Axim comes with both CF and SD slots. That's a pretty big seller for you to overlook.

[patryn121]

Good point about the Axim but the battery life and the standard 320x240 screen of any pocket pc can't compare to the clie 320x480 and much better battery life. Haven't played with an Axim but it doesn't have the built in keyboard, or rotatable screen in effect making it's own case. For the record I keep mine in leather case because I don't like always having to turn the screen around.

I was reading an article (can't remember where) but it was mentioning how even with the clie and pocket pcs running the same chip the palms were able to keep the battery life longer than in the pocket pc.

Serena

[TechnoCat]

Good grief, the forum did it again! And even when I put my userid and password in the fields for a message, it STILL thinks I'm a guest.

Originally posted by patryn121
Good point about the Axim but the battery life and the standard 320x240 screen of any pocket pc can't compare to the clie 320x480 and much better battery life. Haven't played with an Axim but it doesn't have the built in keyboard, or rotatable screen in effect making it's own case. For the record I keep mine in leather case because I don't like always having to turn the screen around.

I agree that the Axim isn't really competition to a Clie or Palm. PalmOS is so much more reliable and efficient than WinCE (and I speak as a developer who does some PPC programming; look for my handle on PIC), which allows the same responsiveness to come from much less power and memory.

I merely responding to the list of CF+SD systems. Me, I'd happily drop SD (and MS) entirely; I've been CF and PCMCIA since the early 90s on the HP95LX.

[Flash-57]

Ok, so let me see if I understand it all. The NZ has a CF slot, but it cannot actually read normal CF cards because the company who wrote the driver won't sell or distribute it.

Further, many people are worried that the PPC is gaining ground quickly in the PDA market and no one knows what can be done about it.

Am I missing anything?

[patryn121]

(grin) Personally what I'm looking for is the CF adapter to read SD cards. I have a sony camera and for work one of the new TINY olympus cameras that still use the SD and not their new half-size XD (I think it's called) memory.

When I sold PDA's the biggest complaint was Sony memory was propriatary (not so except in the US) and for work customers needed a CF slot so they had to buy either the Toshiba monster or the iPaq with a CF or CF/extra battery sled.

I'm just happy with options--and most importantly battery life. I almost broke my brand new iPaq when the battery died on a flight to Las Vegas from my home in Wash DC!

Serena

[sindu]

Originally posted by TechnoCat
Good grief, the forum did it again! And even when I put my userid and password in the fields for a message, it STILL thinks I'm a guest.


I agree that the Axim isn't really competition to a Clie or Palm. PalmOS is so much more reliable and efficient than WinCE (and I speak as a developer who does some PPC programming; look for my handle on PIC), which allows the same responsiveness to come from much less power and memory.

I merely responding to the list of CF+SD systems. Me, I'd happily drop SD (and MS) entirely; I've been CF and PCMCIA since the early 90s on the HP95LX.

Hey...I have that 95LX as well as the 200LX. One of the earliest PDA and one of the best...:cool:

[crh3f]

Originally posted by Flash-57
Ok, so let me see if I understand it all. The NZ has a CF slot, but it cannot actually read normal CF cards because the company who wrote the driver won't sell or distribute it.

Further, many people are worried that the PPC is gaining ground quickly in the PDA market and no one knows what can be done about it.

Am I missing anything?

Yeah, you're missing something...

EruWare just released a driver for the NX/NZ so that you can use the CF slot for something more than just WiFi...it is now a fully functional expansion card slot.

Here: http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11718

[JackAxe]

About Axim, the latest units have a CF and SD slot, PXA255 400Mhz, 48 megs of ROM and 64 of RAM, for only 250 bucks, price after discounts galore. The screens not as nice as a Clie', but from a price standpoint it's a great unit. I've notice a few people on this forum purchasing the 1910 and the buzz on all the tech channels seem to point towards the HP and Dell. From where I stand it looks like PPC is gaining ground over PALM. Only because in the past it was more expensive to purchase a PPC, now it seems as if the table has turned. Also software was more abundant on the PALM, but now that PALM is in a transitional stage to a better overall OS, the gap doesn't seem as great between the two PDAs. This of course is a comment about OS5 apps.

<]=)

[dorelse]

I know we've mentioned the Dell Axim, however, the Genio e550g has dual slots, the new Toshiba e750 has dual slots, the Fujitsu Loox has dual slots, the NEC is dual as well, and its been reported the new HP iPaq 2200 series will as well.

And as you've mentioned the 5400 you'll need a sled, which I've personally understood....just wanted to point out there are choices for dual expansion in the PPC line.

They still each have their merits...and now that the Tungsten C is $500.00, price is no longer a Palm advantage, or a PPC.

[patryn121]

Since I work with palms mostly I forget there are so many pocket PCs out.

One thing I will note is 3 of 10 of the Best Buy stores in my district in Northern Virginia the two highest returns are the HP 1910 (battery power) and the Toshiba 740 (haven't seen the 750). Of the 3 1910s 2 are open box and of the four 740s all are open box.

On the other side Sony is the most returned PDAs mainly because people return a lower model, the 10 or 20, and upgrade to the 30 and 33 now. Strangely of the people returning the pocket PCs not many exchange them for something else unless it's a dirt cheap (in relation to) zire or a 515.

The last couple months I've noticed this trend and the Toshiba I understand because it's just so thick. My NX is just this side of being pocketable or purseable but the 740 just feels much bigger. I think it's the squared edges where the iPaq 3600, 3800, and 5400 have the rounded bottom like the palm 100 series. It fits in my hand easier.

Serena the Best Buy all-around chick

[TechnoCat]

Originally posted by JackAxe
I've notice a few people on this forum purchasing the 1910 and the buzz on all the tech channels seem to point towards the HP and Dell. From where I stand it looks like PPC is gaining ground over PALM. Only because in the past it was more expensive to purchase a PPC, now it seems as if the table has turned. Also software was more abundant on the PALM, but now that PALM is in a transitional stage to a better overall OS, the gap doesn't seem as great between the two PDAs. This of course is a comment about OS5 apps.<]=)
Three comments on this.

First off, just because something went from being more expensive to being competitively-priced doesn't mean it will gain significant market share. The Hummer (SUV) did that, lots of software has done that. PPC isn't as easy to use out-of-the-box, which discourages neophytes. That may be why PalmOS systems still outsell WinCE/PPC systems by more than double.

Second, you're dismissing the fact that the Dell Axim is the bottom of the PPC line, while the like-spec'd T|T (which has more resolution) was until recently the top of the Palm line. The Palm line still has the Zire and the M-series as the entry-level (gateway) drug.

And third, software, I agree with to some degree. Microsoft is providing much better developer support than Palm. But WinCE is a real pain to program for; it's familiar enough, and mostly consistent with Windows, but poorly documented and the bits that aren't consistent are deadly. It's much harder to crash a PalmOS system, but much quicker to port a Windows app to WinCE and, for a Windows programmer, much quicker to write a WinCE app.

But I don't think OS5 should factor into this much. Neither my wife nor I ever considered my Palm IIIc slow, and it's still our primary PDA. My benchmarks (http://www.kittycentral.net/palms.html show that OS5 systems aren't dog-slow under PACE, so many apps will probably never be optimized simply because it doesn't matter. Same thing happened with (and eventually killed) OS/2.

[Flash-57]

> Yeah, you're missing something...
> EruWare just released a driver for the NX/NZ

Excellent! That has been one point that has kept me from buying the NZ. I guess it's off to EBay to look for one.

[JackAxe]

Cool, I personally wouldn't put the Axim on the bottom of the PPC line though. I say this since Dell is basically undercutting HP and other PPC manufactures to get into the market. The iPaq provides a better screen, but the hardware is pretty much the same with out the price tag. I'm a little biased since I own one. The current resolution is great on PALM, I love my 320x480 screen. I've been wondering when the PPC was going to bump up again. It took PALMs years to get to this resolution where as PPC device started out high. 320x240 is still nothing to sneeze on. Some of my best computer memories were spent looking at MCGA screens.

I personally do not like WinCE, but it was great for the Dreamcast.

No argument from me on ease of use, I had to learn all of the in and outs of my PPC before it became stable for me. I crashed it several times because I was unaware of how to properly quit apps the PPC way. Or should I say the LAME way. Most apps offer an exit, but others do not. My Clie' and the other PALM devices have always been straight forward And with the addtion of Yishow (works great for me) and SuperNames, it's way more usefull then my PPC for the most part.


I owned a Palm IIIc, great PDA. Worked fine for Contacts an a few other apps. But I like speed gain that my NR provided for OS4 apps.

I looked at your benchmarks, it will be cool to see how the new PXA255 Clie's run OS4 when they are released. I'm pretty sure that they'll emulate OS4 over all faster then an NR even when running at 200Mhz.

<]=)