Windows Mobile vs. Palm OS Debate

[ejchis]

Hello All,

With the new release of a Treo scheduled this week, I have begun considering a new purchase. There are rumors of a Palm OS Treo 680 and rumors of a Windows Mobile 5 Treo 750 going around. I am a Treo 650 user, and I started to wonder if I should take a look at Windows Mobile. The reality is that I know nothing about it. My sister has a Windows Mobile device, and all I can honestly say for it is that it looks nice.

I am an Outlook junky, so that part of Windows Mobile appeals to me. I'm sure Outlook syncs better with Windows Mobile than Palm--right? But I have a perfectly customized, personalized set-up right now, and I'm afraid to leave it for something less perfect.

I am a heavy user of the Hobbyist titles Initiate, Butler, and Genius. I use the purist, power-user version of Initiate, and I personally believe that I use it quite well. I am not totally sure I want to abandon these pieces of software. What are my options for replacement? Is there software built in that does these things? If not, are there comparable 3rd party options out there?

I also live by DA. What does Windows Mobile offer in place of this? If nothing, what's out there?

I am under the impression that Windows Mobile offers push technology for email, correct? So losing Chatter Email+ wouldn't be the loss of push email? And there is now threaded text message conversations on Windows Mobile too, like the Treo, right? That's a feature that I would struggle to go without.

I'm sure this is a debate that a lot of people are, or will be, having in the near future, and I wanted to bring it up with the updated software available. I couldn't find a discussion about it in the last couple of months. My biggest hold on the Palm is how comfortable I am with it (I've been using it for seven years) and the amount of time and money I've spent getting this device exactly how I want it. But I am okay changing if I should change.

Being that Outlook is my primary concern, I have always struggled with PIM software on my Treo. I currently use Beyond Contacts because it syncs the databases better than any other software I have found. That being said, I really dislike BC, and could go on all day about the problems with it.

Anyway, I'd love to get lots of other thoughts and opinions on this topic--I hope some can come from someone who has some knowledge about both OSs.

Thanks,
Eric

[guysoft]

Linux is takeing over in the the embedded world... it will take over.. and it should
windows CE means proprietary software, that is bad all of us (exept microsoft)

[skaf]

Windows Mobile and PalmOS are two completely different approaches to an operating system for mobile devices. WM is for those who want to have almost everything their desktop computer can offer them. PalmOS is designed to be as simple and straightforward as possible, with its main focus on what most users really need, PIM and communication.
There are thousands of "Palm vs. WM" discussions on the web, and
I would take some time to read some of them. Windows Mobile may look sleek and shiny if a long time PalmOS user has his/her first look at it. But you need to know what's underneath it. Sure, WM has a nice interface and lots of apps, such as Word, Excel, Windows Media Player etc. But depending on your device and and additional software, you may need to soft reset 3 or 4 times a day (I once managed to crash a device 3 times in less than 10 minutes). This doesn't really happen with PalmOS, right? On the other hand, PalmOS doesn't have a real file system (at least not in RAM), decent power management features (such as different backlight brightness for AC and battery power) or that great Broadcom Bluetooth manager. But it makes more effective use of ressources (a 312 MHz Palm with an HVGA screen is faster than a 400 MHz PocketPC with a QVGA screen). Also, most programs consist of just one file and can easily be transfered to other devices.
As you can see, there are lots of factors that set apart these two operating systems. I suggest you have a look at your sister's device, but don't compare it side by side with your Treo (that's not really fair, anyway). Find out which OS serves your personal purposes better.

[Bionic Antboy]

I'd mostly agree with what skaf said, but from my personal experience, I rarely encounter crashes on my WM5 HTC Wizard (once every couple of weeks maybe). Similarly, it's 200MHz processor seems up to the task of video playback as well as the Treo 650.

Outlook sync has been flawless for me, and I really like the fact that voice notes I record, as well as doodles, sync up to Outlook notes with no problem. I don't do a lot of text/instant messaging, so the built-in messaging works fine. This goes for email as well, but I only have one account to worry about on the go. Web browsing is far superior, especially using the latest Nefront for WM.

I do use a 3rd party PIM called PocketInformant (full sync with Outlook), which is great, and ranks up there with Agendus for the Palm .

I made the switch over to WM (HTC Wizard) this summer, and really like it, after being a Palm user for a number of years. The main thing that drove me is the utter uselessness of the Treo keyboard (for me anyways - my thumbs need to be 10% thinner, or the keys 10% wider :) ), and if Palm explores other form factors (clamshell/slide out keyboards), I'll consider coming back.

I generally find OS wars between the two are grossly overblown (much like Mac vs. Windows), as I've had mostly good and very few bad experiences with both (and that goes for Mac/PC as well). Most apps (or their equivalent) are available for both Palm/WM, and both have good user communities (though 1src will always be my fave - I STILL subscribe to the podcast), and the switching from one to the other was relatively painless.

[Cyker]

I recently got to really play around with a Psion Series 5mx, something I've only used a long time ago and that wasn't even mine, and I have decided that it blows my TH55 out of the water as a PDA.
It can't play video, can't take pictures, doesn't have an MP3 player, doesn't have a colour screen and the dang thing is HUGE, but my god the apps are wonderful! And I forgot how nice it was to type on the keyboard!
The size means the screen is big and thus very readable; The Monochrome screen is great even in glare-angle sunlight where my TH55 would be unusable!
The whole thing was so intuitive to use right off the bat. Things did what I expected them to do. Syncing was the only thing that was a pain in the proverbial.

I think this is the problem we have: Most modern PDAs are not PDAs but mini-computer wannabes. They're too damned complicated! Shaun's article in PDA24 about reverting to a paper planner and finding himself less hassled is indicitive of this.
K.I.S.S. is something PDA manufacturers should try and apply to their products.

Now, I'll be the first person to say I'll give up my TH55's video and MP3 abilities over my dead body, but if they can keep the base-line functionality EASY and SIMPLE without sacrificing flexibility then we'll be on to something.

Unfortunately, Both WM and PalmOS seem increasingly to confuse EASY and SIMPLE with NO FEATURES. The Psion has very powerful apps on it, yet they still manage to be easy and simple to use!

PalmOS isn't bad 0 It does KISS very well (And I wouldn't be surprised if those old rumors about them counting how many taps it required to do a task were true! ;)), but it has stagnated in ease of use and features, while increasing in complexity and reducing stability.

WM has come a LONG way since the old versions, but its still too 'fat' as a PDA operating system. However, I guess it is actually targeted as more of a literal PocketPC so its hard to fault them there, but this is why I don't consider a PPC a PDA at all...

[Romeol]

How about the Jornada style 680 and 720?

[Bionic Antboy]

I recently got to really play around with a Psion Series 5mx, something I've only used a long time ago and that wasn't even mine, and I have decided that it blows my TH55 out of the water as a PDA.
It can't play video, can't take pictures, doesn't have an MP3 player, doesn't have a colour screen and the dang thing is HUGE, but my god the apps are wonderful! And I forgot how nice it was to type on the keyboard!
The size means the screen is big and thus very readable; The Monochrome screen is great even in glare-angle sunlight where my TH55 would be unusable!

A friend of my still uses his Psion 5 as well and swears by it, and having played with it, the keyboard is really awesome.

I'm one of those "whole enchilada" kind of guys though.
;)

[Cyker]

I know what you mean ;)

I'm sorta stuck in the middle - I don't want all the baggage that comes with a full-blown hand-held computer like a PPC, but I want a bit more flexibility than PalmOS and Psion devices currently provide... :/

One thing I'd love would be a keyboard mechanism for the TH55 that clips onto it and folds out like the Psion 5's one does. Combine that with Landscape and I'd be dang happy ;)

ATM I'm using a Stowaway BT keyboard, but software problems stop it being ultimately awesome (Shift acts funny and it has a nasty tendency to drop letters or just stop responding for a few seconds which is *incredibly* annoying. I wish I'd got the IR version...! Sadly Thinkoutside seem to have abandoned the Palm side; The driver hasn't changed from the one I beta tested for them!!!)

You can actually get a PalmOS device with a really nice keyboard - The Alphasmart Dana. I played with one at a tradeshow some years back, and it was very nice to use. It was rather too large to replace my TH55 (The thing had a full-sized keyboard!), but it was pretty cool. Had a ****-ton of batterylife too.

[Romeol]

If you're using the TH55, why not just use the Stowaway XT connected keyboard for Sony? You can even charge when docked.

[Bionic Antboy]

I know what you mean ;)

I'm sorta stuck in the middle - I don't want all the baggage that comes with a full-blown hand-held computer like a PPC, but I want a bit more flexibility than PalmOS and Psion devices currently provide... :/

One thing I'd love would be a keyboard mechanism for the TH55 that clips onto it and folds out like the Psion 5's one does. Combine that with Landscape and I'd be dang happy ;)

Something like that WOULD be nice. That's why I'm hoping that Palm starts branching out with their form factors. For what it's worth, the Wizard (Cingular version) keyboard is actually pretty good, and I've found the switch to PPC relatively painless. Even so, when I sold my UX50, I held onto my software licenses, knowing (well, hoping) that I'll have a need for them in the future.

[Nobitsu]

I'm kind of really disappointed with palm.
One thing they removed the Vibrate function for all their current PDAs (not sure about Treo) and second of all, they're becoming something like a Microsoft dog in that they are now selling windows Treos.
I dont see any point to have a PDA now unless it has some form of silent communication to the user when the user is in a new meeting. All of these PDAs without vibrate are totally useless. I wouldn't like my palm making loud playing music in a business meeting or something serious. Of course, Alarms should be planned so they dont do that, however, I still think they shouldn't have gotten rid of the vibrate function. It just doesn't feel like a PDA with out it. The user shouldn't have to open up the friggen palm hand held JUST TO stick in a meer vibrate mod.

Boy if I knew they scrapped the vibrate function, I would not by it at all because I see no reason to get one if it cant do it's normal planning function. I think the developers are getting too competitive in the "wifi" or "bluetooth" field that they ignore simple useful PLANNING functions in the current pdas which make them more like a friggen laptop. This is what they probably think, "Because this TX has a WIFI function, it can send signals to the user's brain to to read the calendar in the palm." I'm terribly upset. Next thing I'll do is not even buy a new handheld because there is absolutely no point anymore.

I dont like the fact that they are making their PDAs cheap and plastic either. It feels like they are starting to skimp out on everything just to get WIFI or BLUETOOTH function. WIFI and BLUETOOTH are not ESSENTIAL!


If I do get another PDA it'll definately wont be Palm.

[Rob_T]

I have been a Palm OS user for several years, starting with a IIIe and now with a 700p.

I have a lot of 3rd party software on the device and several hacks.

My friend just bought a WM PPC 6700 and I got a chance to take a good look at it.

The thing that impressed me most is what it does out of the box. With my Treo I have added Fontsmoother, PalmRevolt, upgraded Docs to Go and Pocket Tunes, and andded ZLauncher (not to mention Chatter). This is just to get it to a basic device that does what I need it to do.

It seems that, other than adding something like the free version of TCPMP and adding a 3rd party app like iLauncher 3, I could use a WM device as is.

Docs to Go just came out with another update ($30.00) today. I know I don't have to buy it (but I probably will). You don't need to keep paying for pocket Word or Excel. You don't need to add an additional e-mail app.

I guess I'm saying that although I like Palm OS, it takes a lot more tweaks (and $) to get it where you want it to be.

[Cyker]

Stability of PalmOS and WM, with their most recent versions, is about par.

WM was originally a buggy PoS, but now it's fairly stable.
PalmOS was original rock solid, but now it's fairly stable.

Both of them [NB: Latest versions] are very stable out of the box; It's when you start adding programs to them or filling up the memory when the problems start.

PalmOS was traditionally very stable, right up to OS4.1 where you could install *any* program, no matter what OS version it was designed for, and you'd *know* it would work.
With OS5, this changed for the worse, and when they added NVFS it got *even* worse.
Now, you actually have to be a bit careful what you install, not just throw things on willy-nilly.

With WM, third-party support was originally dire (Remember when they had 3 different incompatible CPUs?! ;)), but has got considerably better, and most things seem to work (This is partially because, unlike PalmOS, PPCs don't have a great deal of 'legacy' software, not that I could find anyway...).
One thing with WM, is that apps tend to need a lot more resources than they do on PalmOS, which is why PPC specs have always been sky-high compared to PalmOS.
(The old rule of thumb was that a 33MHz 8MB Palm was equivalent to a 200MHz 64MB PPC! I remember comparing my old T625 to a friend's iPaq once, and the T625 actually felt faster! :eek:)
Improvements to WM have lessened this 'responsiveness' gap a fair bit, and PalmOS has gotten worse, so they're about on equal footing now.

That really sums up how I've seen the two evolve actually... Palm started off with a perfect PDA operating system, but are slowly making it crap.
WM started off as a lump of crap, but they're slowly making it... well... less crap :D