1SRC Podcast NinetySeven

[Alan G]

This week Tyler Faux and Jimmie Geddes join me to talk about Palm OS and Windows Mobile, Treo form factors, and lots of other great topics! [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=1704)]

[Alan G]

I want to thank Jimmie and Tyler once again for taking time out of their busy schedules to be my co-hosts for this week's show. Podcast 97 run about 1 hour and weighs in at around 64MB, so it might take a bit longer than normal to download this week.

Alan G

[holvoetn]

Oh boy ... thanks for the warning, though :D
I guess that'll be something for Friday morning when I take the train to work.

[kbachelder]

I want to thank Jimmie and Tyler once again for taking time out of their busy schedules to be my co-hosts for this week's show. Podcast 97 run about 1 hour and weighs in at around 64MB, so it might take a bit longer than normal to download this week.

Alan G


Looks like the file is at 128kbps which is probably why it's so large.


Thanks,

Kevin

[Alan G]

Looks like the file is at 128kbps which is probably why it's so large.


That is correct. The next show will be back to the regular 64kbps.

Alan G

[Jimmie Geddes]

Thanks Alan for having me, and Tyler it was great speaking with you again. Let's do it again soon:)

[Vampire Lestat]

Oh how sweet. 3 Treo users, 2 converted to WM all in agreement. Pathetic.

Palm developing WM is not a good idea at all if you are a Palm OS fan. It means Palm Inc. no longer has an incentive to compete. They are already losing their drive to develop/sell Palm OS. Why should they now care? If people dump Palm OS, they can sell them WM Treos. Don't you guys get it? You cannot have your cake and eat it to.

For example, lets take our once Palm OS champion programmer Tyler Faux. He has a WM Treo now! Yay! (sarcarm). So what are we to say now about that? Tyler's programming genius will result in offering programs for both Palm OS and WM? Or like Palm Inc. loves to say: "Tyler will be offering consumers more choice! Yay!!!! And if consumers buy his WM programs, then that is OK."

Fact is, let's cut the BS. Tyler has a WM Treo, he only has so many hours in a day, and the hours spent learning/developing WM, he can no longer spend those on making groundbreaking Palm OS programs. The same logic applies to a company like Palm Inc. WM is taking away resources and the competive drive to develop Palm OS devices.

The only good argument being made about Palm adopting WM is that perhaps they had no choice and that without WM, they would have been bankrupt. I doubt it, but it's possible. What happened is that Palm Inc. realized it was vulnerable to PalmSource and they got scared. That's why they started WM Treos.

Palm Inc is its own worst enemy. The Palm OS + WM developer support program is only going to worsen the situation. At the end of the day, programmers will choose 1 platform over another. And if they port their programs, they will be just that, unoptimized ports. Expect to see lame PalmOS/ALP ports of Tyler's brilliant upcoming WM programs.

So sad to see such a great company, the inventors of the handheld, self destruct.

And the funniest part is that so many of you are clueless and right onboard with it all, actually going around saying that Palm offering WM is a good thing.

Wake up and smell the coffee guys.

[Vampire Lestat]

And by the way, unlike what was said in the podcast, Palm Inc. is not a hardware company, it is a value added reseller. Palm Inc. contracts out the manufacturing and assembly of its hardware, then they add upper level programming on top of PalmSource's Palm OS or Microsoft's WM.

[Vampire Lestat]

And as for Jimmy's or Tyler's comments on the great multitasking of WM, he is absolutely right. The crime here is that Cobalt does the exact same thing, if not better, but Palm Inc. never licensed it.

If Cobalt is dead, then ALP will bring multitasking. As cool as MS WM might be, I am in the camp of people who support the open source community, so I might get onboard with ALP after all. MS needs some stiff competition to keep it in check.

Too bad Tyler is gone over to the dark side. I doubt he will be back now. We can all thank Palm Inc. for indirectly encouraging him to consider and ultimately move over to the WM camp.

[Jimmie Geddes]

No need to attack people Vampy. Tyler has not gone to the "darkside", and why can't we all just get along??:)

It's great to have choices, don't turn that into a bad thing.

[holvoetn]

It would be a dull place if we all could only choose from 1 option ...

[Jimmie Geddes]

I think it's great that Palm is offering us both Palm OS and Windows Mobile products. I never liked Windows Mobile until Palm did it right. Say what you will, but choices are a good thing.

[Alan G]

Wake up and smell the coffee guys.

For the record, I don't drink coffe. Just Diet Coke. Which, oddly enough, was absent from the podcast last night.

Alan G

[holvoetn]

For the record, I don't drink coffe. Just Diet Coke. Which, oddly enough, was absent from the podcast last night.

Alan GWHAT !
And you still expect me to listen to the show now you made this public ? :rolleyes:

:D

BTW just send my 1src-voicemail ;)

[Vampire Lestat]

More and more I am starting to conclude it is imperative that Access Co. find more than just Palm Inc. for licensing ALP. The day Access Co. sells a mobile device itself, it instantly becomes the classic Palm Inc. that we all once loved for its uniqueness. Wouldn't that be cool if Palm Inc. with all its antics and WM / Treo focus games got suddently bit in the *** in a sudden and shocking surprise industry move? You would see Palm Inc. scrambling then, and maybe then they would realize what they destroyed. Sometimes takes tragedy to make you realized what you lost.

Don't underestimate Access Co. For one, they are brilliant Japanese, and 2) they did humiliate Palm Inc. by outbidding them and single handedly stealing away their heart and soul, Palm OS.

Access Co is very quiet. We might all be overlooking their power and decision force in the handheld/phone market. They can easily get HTC and others to make hardware for them, and they could act like Palm and tailor the device in their image; with the net advantage of owning the OS and valueing IT over the WM competition.

[Vampire Lestat]

hmm so the day Access sells a handheld...

Palm Inc is to Access Co what Sony was to Palm Inc.
Then Sony abandoned Palm OS, went on to make its own OS and then disappeared into handheld oblivion. Would that happen to Palm Inc?

Access Co will never announce they are selling a mobile device until negotiations with Palm Inc for ALP are over and papers are signed; or will they?

Someone should contact Access and see if they have pondered the idea of selling their own hardware.

[lajandy]

I can't believe you guys are confused about Palm's numbering scheme for Treos:

6xx = 2/2.5G devices (EDGE for GSM, whatever for CDMA)
7xx = 3G devices (EV-DO for CDMA, UMTS for GSM)

Now, the lettering scheme is a different story. Until the 750v, the letters denoted the OS, but with the 750v they seem to be switching to a more Blackberry-like scheme, where the letter denote the carrier the device is customized for (which one of you suggested, I think).

Given all that, everyone needs to realize that there won't be a Palm OS-powered 750v (or at least, a UMTS one). In order to comply with 3G GSM specs, a device needs to be able to hold open data and voice links simultaneously, and apparently Palm OS's multitasking is too weak to do that.

[mrp123]

In order to comply with 3G GSM specs, a device needs to be able to hold open data and voice links simultaneously, and apparently Palm OS's multitasking is too weak to do that.

Haven't listened to the podcast yet, but...
Your comment about weak multitasking seems reminiscent of the Ptunes skips on NVFS devices. (/Sigh/) :( Why, Palm? Why?

[ewah]

I couldn't even listen to the entire podcast. It makes me sick that palm is now just another windows mobile device maker. I don't care if they "got it right". Palm in my world is now a one pony cell phone provider with an above average interface. Not at all what I want or need.

[Vampire Lestat]

Thank you.

FYI I could only get through 50% of the podcast as well. The embracing of the WM invasion was sickening at one point. Also, the audio was back to being horrible again. What happened to the MacIntosh fixing the problem?
I wanted to hear more of Tyler Faux's new corporate friendly and now "so mature" à la Bill Gates talk.

But to be fair guys, if I listened it is because Alan Grassia is a good podcaster.


UPDATE:
Just listened to the last 50% of the podcast. Got better because they talked more about handhelds and Palm OS.

[JAmerican]

LMAO! You guys are really funny. In my opinion, I've given up on Palm OS since the implementation of NVFS. Yes, I got a TX but that was to test out NVFS and get a new device. Now, I may get a 680 or I may get a 750. I just want something that works. If NVFS makes my life difficult, I'm gonna try something else. Give it up. Why are we so dedicated to one OS. You never experience new things if you stay on one OS. I wouldn't have learned about Expose if I got a Windows laptop. I wouldn't know how fast Mac OS X runs on a typically slow laptop if I got a Windows laptop. I wouldn't love Mac OS as much as Windows if I didn't try it. Break the boundary and give it a try.

BTW, 750 is coming to Cingular...

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/22/palm-briefly-confesses-to-treo-680-750-for-cingular/

DualCor handheld supports Windows Mobile and Windows XP. LOL. They fully support it I would think.

TC was at one point more expensive then the newest handheld. It was $400 when the newest handheld was like $350. LOL. Don't know why Palm kept it so high for so long. TC is the most powerful because it had no NVFS. TC2 will have NVFS which essentially will kill it. It wouldn't be a successor.

JA

[blues]

To all you guys who have given up on the Palm OS, why are you still here? Vamp actually told us he was leaving months ago. Well go then! Do you guys actually listen to the podcast? Palm OS is very much alive.

I'm so glad that the people who actually have the resources to successfully put the podcast out have a positive additude. I guess there wouldn't be a podcast, or a forum filled with people like JA with over 5000 posts, if Palm was really on the out.

[Alan G]

FYI I could only get through 50% of the podcast as well. The embracing of the WM invasion was sickening at one point.

Embarcing...wait a minute! Didn't you get a new PocketPC from HP? Let's take a look at the thread for the 1SRC Editorial: Size Does Matter (http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=950493&postcount=19)...

If there is a Palm OS handheld coming out, I NEED TO KNOW within 15 days or else I lose the ability to return my rx1950 for a refund.

Ya, I guess you did. And didn't you tell me to start a Windows Mobile podcast? Let's take a look at the thread for 1SRC Podcast 97 (http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=950004&postcount=2)...

Alan, you might want to start looking into making a WM podcast.


Interesting. If you dislike Palm so much and went and got a PPC it must be really hard for you to use it because of the love-hate relationship you have with it. And I would have thought that you would have listened to entire podcast. Hmmm.

Alan G

[ewah]

I'm not sure about Vamp, but I still listen because I'm hoping to here of a big turn around. I still have my lifedrive but I'm trying out the Nokia 770. I'm sorry if I come off as a "wing nut" I'm just not sure how to get through to everyone. I just can't believe that everyone is so happy that all palm is doing are treo's and WM phones. I mean in the end why does everyone care about Palm, if they don't make a current product that we can use they fall into the who cares, next please category. So let me ask everyone who is pro palm. If Palm never again makes anything but a cell phone is that ok?

[Jimmie Geddes]

We discussed what's going on with Palm. We talked about Palm OS and Windows Mobile. Palm is releasing devices with both OS's on them, that's what's happening. If you're not happy with the current state you've got choices, the good thing about Palm is they are releasing devices with choices. Some people prefer Palm OS, some people prefer Windows Mobile. millions prefer Treos. It's a no brainer sell Treos with both OS's on them to please all. Seems no matter what you do, you never please everyone as evidenced in this forum.

[ewah]

It's not that palm is making a WM device, it's that they are not making a non cell phone device. Palm users don't have choices, It's a treo or nothing, it's cingular or verizon, or sprint lockin. Palm use to be about choices, many units for different types of users. If they had just started coming out with WM devices but still upgraded the TX or Zire, or Lifedrive line I would have cared less about that, than I do about them only offering cell phones. I mean I don't listen to a weekly podcast about nokia/motorola/samsung/etc because cell phones just aren't that exciting to me. It is just frustrating watching another company (in my opinion) drift off into an also ran category of products. As for listening to the podcast, I enjoy hearing about the new palm events but when it is week after week of "hey look another treo from yet another wireless carrier" that I still don't want I just get bored with it. If you really want to talk about cell phones then start talking about the treo vs the Q like alan did a couple of months ago, or have some opposing or different opinions, just to hear week after week of treo love is just not good listening.

[holvoetn]

It's not that palm is making a WM device, it's that they are not making a non cell phone device. Who says they are not ?
I know, they are not saying either they are ...

There is a thread at BrightHand (see here (http://forum.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=229712)) where Ed Hardy sheds a light on the fact Palm might actually be working on something non-cell-phone like ...

[Jimmie Geddes]

The market is moving to smartphones, there is a small minority that wants a stand alone PDA. Palm still has more PDA's on the market than it's competitors.

When we're talking about Treos we're not talking about "cell phones", you can't compare them to nokia, samsung, motorola cell phones, they're just not in the same category, bad comparison.

As Ed Hardy wrote this week, Palm is expected to be releasing PDA's, not just Treos.

[ewah]

I agree that the world seems gaga over cell phones right now. But if a treo isn't a cell phone what is it? a smart phone, exactly what does that mean? I think we will have to agree to disagree on the whole smart phone/cell phone discussion it is a personal choice and everyone gets their's. Here are a couple of reasons why I will probably never have a smart phone.

1. Cycling - I use my cell phone when I go on 100+ mile cycling rides. the last thing I need is my entire life bouncing onto the pavement at mile 43.

2. Easy Sharing - With my cheapy cell phone I don't mind letting someone use it, borrow it or quite frankly if someone steals my $50 cell phone I just get a new one. I don't have to worry about what information is in there. No lost data problems here.

3. It's smaller - enough said

4. Two screens mean twice as much work gets done.

5. Does anyone really need more than that!

As to the news that palm is still making or might be making a new PDA I say hooray! and bring it on. I will say that I have been enjoying my nokia 770, the web browsing, the email client, the music players and video players all work very well, it is a wide screen format which I thought at first I wouldn't like but have gotten use to.

I'm glad palm is enjoying its new glory I really am, I hope they survive. BTW where is my slingbox client for my palm based unit!!!

[philpalm]

Death of the handheld? The regular joes would buy a mp3 device under $100, but palm doesn't. Cheaper non-colored screened personal informational devices are under $100 but are not easy to load information like palms.

Television shows on a handheld: even the satellite service is trying to showcase their device. Ipods and zune will be fighting out in this arena.

The telecoms will refuse to use WI Fi devices since their biggest competitors would cut their income by using wifi.

I just got a Tungsten E2 but bloatware, digitalizing problems, and battery life may undermine it's usefulness. Sony's new e-book device has promise, but with the price of SD cards dropping, a device with a card slot may be entering into a Golden age of storing hundreds of books in a light format.

[Dick Tracy]

I'm not sure the world is ga-ga over smartphones; the advertisers, marketers and Hollywood are. The average Joes use whatever phone comes free or nearly free with their plan.

[JAmerican]

The only reason for me to get a Treo now is to get a WM one because I already have a TX. To get a Palm Treo running 5.4.9 makes no sense. The only reason I've become open to more OSes is because of NVFS' effect on the Palm experience. To me, Palm OS has issues just like WM and according to Jimmie's comments on his WX, it seems like Palm has found out how to make their WM Treo run much more smoothly. I also want Multitasking, something I've missed since my Sidekick 1.

JAmerican

[Drunkard]

Carriers need to get it through there heads that most people don't want the "content" they offer on the locked-down phones they offer.

[intellidryad]

Clie cultist here held guilty.

Why is the Palm scene boring? Because Palm is the only one left on the field, and they are not innovating.

They tell us they are selling solutions, but they are not. Will they did make exciting devices several years ago, but after Sony backed out, they got lazy. Now, every handheld they release is a clone of either the T|E or the Treo 600. The difference is in price points and feature cuts: the less you pay, the more you lose. Even the LD, which was supposed to be a great media device was made into marely a T|E with beefed up features in a new fat case but rendered sluggish by it's HD. The Treos, speak for their selves: boring. The real latest Treo was the 600, nothing new after that.

You said that cultists exist because the devices aren't avaliable and more. I'd say it's becase the innvation is gone. Back then, Sony made solutions for concepts: UX for web, NX/VZ for entertainment, TH for better PIM. And they give you unique form factors and software packages for the specific uses. Garmin was close to that with their GPS model, alas they dumped Palm OS too. Now, it's only Palm, making clone after clone, with marely minnor differences. Boring.

[JAmerican]

BTW don't people see why WM gets more presence or comes first is because I think Palm is trying to expand upon WM and stretch out the time before they release another Palm device. Once ALP is available or "Palm OS II", then Palm OS and WM devices will be on a level playing ground. I mean if Palm released 5.4.9 devices all the time for Treo, TX/mobile-manager line and low-end devices, they won't make much money.

The difference between Palm and Sony is the way they sell their product. Palm sells new handhelds with the most up-to-date version of their OS. The OS could be iffy or certain components could be uncomplete (like WiFi in LD), but they will still release the device.

While Sony, uses a stable version of an OS (if it ain't broke don't fix it ideology) and uses different case designs to attract people. I mean the TH, UX and VZ all ran on the same version of Palm OS but with hardware upgrades and different look, you would not be able to tell. I think Sony and Garmin saw that NVFS was a joke due to its instability. Sony's last Palm OS device was a VZ running 5.2.1 even though it came out in 2004 around the time the T5 came out.

This is why people favored Sony. I mean difference in design while stable OS. That's quality. Palm is just stuffing new version of Palm OS in their devices and using the same mold and different colors to distinguish different device models. It saves money but causes people to loose interest. I love the slim design of the TX but would like to see a new looking TX. Since the Tungsten line is gone, get rid of the form-factor as well. Or at least show us some designs and let us vote or something to that effect. Test out a new sign and see the reception to a small test group. Etc.

JAmerican

[Joel]

I finally got enough free time at work to listen to the podcast! Nice job you three... and thanks for the kind words. Sure, the audio quality dipped here and there but it's the flow of ideas that gives soul to a podcast.

To take off from that "soul" idea, I think it was Sony who had enough passion to design a Palm device that ultimately led to to a handheld that had soul. The last great PDA in my book was/is the TH55/E. Imagine that... a 2 1/2 year old Palm-powered device that's still ummatched. What we are seeing now with Palm, as intellidryad said, are merely clones of a primary design. I hope we'd get to see new designs and capabilities... not just capabilities. It's still my wish to see Palm hire the Sony Clie designers... then I'd get to see my dream Palm PDA.

[JAmerican]

I finally got enough free time at work to listen to the podcast! Nice job you three... and thanks for the kind words. Sure, the audio quality dipped here and there but it's the flow of ideas that gives soul to a podcast.

To take off from that "soul" idea, I think it was Sony who had enough passion to design a Palm device that ultimately led to to a handheld that had soul. The last great PDA in my book was/is the TH55/E. Imagine that... a 2 1/2 year old Palm-powered device that's still ummatched. What we are seeing now with Palm, as intellidryad said, are merely clones of a primary design. I hope we'd get to see new designs and capabilities... not just capabilities. It's still my wish to see Palm hire the Sony Clie designers... then I'd get to see my dream Palm PDA.

They should have picked them up as soon as Sony departed the Palm OS market. That would have been a smart business stategy.

[OrionNE]

The Podcast content was pretty good. However, the audio was bad, and I am sorry to say you could have done without the "plugfest". It was more like let's pat each other on the back and say hi to mom if she is listening. and now lets all hug.. OMG it is great you guys are friends and community buddies but I had to turn it off about then. Listening to you guys plugging each other was getting bad.

But Seriously, I was hoping you would plug new applications or websites that we don't already know about that you have found recently. I think Palm Inc. doing a WM design is interesting. I still follow the Jeff Kirvin comment that "Palm doing WM will make them a lot of money at first but will hurt them in the long term." Now normally I don't agree with Jeff Kirvin. He changes opinions as often as I change the oil in my car. (3 months or 3000 miles).

I think Palm should setup the Treo/PDA device that you buy it and have a choice of what OS to install and use. Not this you have to go and buy a specific model with that OS. Then they would sell a ton of product. Palm is close to being able to do that. I do not believe any other VAR/Mfg is in the position to market something like that.

As for the Keyboard/Thumboard segment. I have a Treo700P. For the longest time I have used a two device soultion. I went to the 700P because it was the newest and rumor was Palm was not going to release a new PDA this year. I think the concept Treo800 I have seen would be a great device. It has the 320x480 and it's formfactor footprint is about the same as the new Treo's. If you need a thumboard you could install "Scotts Keyboard" and use it for texting and other input. I had that keyboard on my LD and thought it worked great with VeriChat.

But these are my opinions. Keep the podcast’s coming. Even though I don't always like them it's kind of like the Howard Stern show. I keep listening because I want to hear what you say next!

OrionNE

[Jimmie Geddes]

That would be cool to kind of have "BootCamp" on our Treo, so you can have Palm and Windows Mobile. You can kind of do this with Windows Mobile using StyleTap which lets you run Palm OS apps on Windows Mobile.

[intellidryad]

They should have picked them up as soon as Sony departed the Palm OS market. That would have been a smart business stategy.

Here's why it didn't happen:

On Palm's side:
"We are a business solutions company, we only do boring yet professional devices..." (Duh, the RAZR could look profressional yet un-boring...)

On Sony's side:
From the interviews with the designers that Sony Japan posted on their sites from time to time, I got the feeling that they've got designers that pretty much design all sorts of gadgets, not having a real dedicated "team". Thus, the Clie designers are previous Vaio designers, and they might be now working on the next-gen PSP, Walkmans or Vaios. You could pretty much see hints of Clie-bits in PSPs (such as the use of IC2.0, the implementation of the memory stick with content specific folders, and even including Netfront as the built-in browser) and the Vaio UX (the form factor, and the telescoping "toothpick" stylus). So I think the designers aren't going anywhere, they just don't do Clies anymore.

[lajandy]

Carriers need to get it through there heads that most people don't want the "content" they offer on the locked-down phones they offer.

I whole-heartedly agree on the carrier situation here in the US. Verizon, Sprint, and Cingular don't just want to sell you a phone and service, they want to be inside your phone. I really don't want them touching my data. T-Mobile is a little better about that, but that's only because they're small in the US and have no content to really lock you into. That and their supply of interesting phones dried up years ago (unless you want a Blackberry).

[JAmerican]

Your right intellidryad. But I remember Sony layed off some people due to their financial situation.

JAmerican

[Romeol]

Most of the people fanboying for Palm OS or for WM simply have not tried the other one out. And if they have, they have not tried the newest implementations of each. I have and after tested dozens of devices, I must say that it's much different to actually test devices than read about them.

1 thing to keep in mind:
2 OS's= weaknesses and strengths

Obviously, each OS has a set of assets for them. However, it is made out by debaters for both sides think that every aspect of each is good. To note, Palm users embracing WM are not Palm users; they are handheld/smartphone users. You cannot use both, like both, and support both and classify yourself as a Palm user. So what if you're not a Palm user though? I think it makes your judgment on devices that much better.

There are some saying that Palm will spiral far from its current OS. People such as Alan stubbornly insist that the extension of Palm's license is clearly indicative of Palm's commitment to Garnet. Even so, Palm expands its offerings of WM devices while the market share of Garnet based devices plummets. It's obvious to me that while Ed may say things to assuage the irate Palm wingnuts, there is no indication that Palm will ever return to using POS exclusively or even on a small share basis. In fact, there is no indication that new POS devices are even being made. Moreover, the exclusivity of the Garnet license means that only Palm can make them and that further deducts from POS's future as a viable OS.

POS users such as Alan often talk much too naïvely about POS's future. It's not that they do not understand it, but it comes across as too comforting for POS users about the future of POS. WM rules over POS in all markets and familiarity with Windows essentially governs the market and pushes any hope POS has to make a recovery. Palm simply invented the market and you can trace back to the beginning when WM starts to take over market share. As a simple, fundamental rule of economics, Palm as a profit-driven company will never offer more of a product in less demand. It simply will not happen. There won't be a wave of millions of new people demanding POS. It will have to either die or be produced on a limited scale, much like Sony's UX series.

Communities like 1src are great for those who want to enjoy and share the goodness of POS, and that is perfectly fine. But don't get it confused. All OS's have benefits over each other and it's very important to be aware of this. Communities exist for WM and hybrid (see: Brighthand) that offer great advice and expertise in determining solutions for each individual. Many people on each side of the fence don't want to resign themselves to give in to the "disloyalty" of the "dark side." See both sides of the OS's before jumping to conclusions and keep in mind that while forums like 1src are excellent and have strong-knit bond in its membership, it's not the know-all place, and Palm OS is not the ultimate OS. I won't get into specifics on benefits because that is dynamic, but there are so many factors involved that it is impossible to determine a perfect OS.

My outlook for Palm is that it will continue to produce POS but only on a handheld basis. I seriously doubt that POS can keep up with the emerging technologies integrated into Microsoft's development. POS was not truly meant to take advantage of the blazing new speed of evolution that occurs in PCs (hence new versions every few years), and since Garnet is licensed to 2010, there won't be any new development in Palm for a new OS to complement this new development. Simply put, POS will stagnate where it is (which is still damn good).

And Vampy, I'm glad you pointed out that Palm does not do hardware. I believe I recall the Zire 72 was made by OneAndCompany (www.oneandco.com), the same as the makers of the Pulsar 590a and the XBox 360. I want the Versa's. :)

[Vampire Lestat]

Embarcing...wait a minute! Didn't you get a new PocketPC from HP? Let's take a look at the thread for the 1SRC Editorial: Size Does Matter (http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=950493&postcount=19)...



Ya, I guess you did. And didn't you tell me to start a Windows Mobile podcast? Let's take a look at the thread for 1SRC Podcast 97 (http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=950004&postcount=2)...



Interesting. If you dislike Palm so much and went and got a PPC it must be really hard for you to use it because of the love-hate relationship you have with it. And I would have thought that you would have listened to entire podcast. Hmmm.

Alan G


Well it is about time someone caught on and thought about using that against me finally.

Like Ed Colligan, I am GUILTY as charged. With the difference that I respect and like Palm OS more than him.

I have always owned PPC and Palms simultaneously. I almost always only use my Palm OS devices for serious true life daily organization. The problem I have with Palm Inc is that it is not putting enough effort into handhelds and Palm OS.

I always flip flop a bit but usually always fall back onto Palm OS. Now mind you, it might not be possible for me to keep doing that forever if Palm itself decides to push me away by not selling good Palm OS handhelds.

Anyways, WHATEVER. Just keep doing your podcast and don't mind me.
YOU on the other hand have the mic and a greater responsibility to your Palm OS public. You should talk about Palm OS here and PPC in another podcast if you want to discuss PPC. Your choice, but I am willing to bet, like Palm Inc., your are pissing off a majority of your mainly Palm OS listeners.

It is bad enough Palm OS fans have to fend off attacks from within by Palm Inc, but when big names like Tyler Faux, and yourself start slobbering all over WM, it is bad.

[Vampire Lestat]

I'm not sure about Vamp, but I still listen because I'm hoping to here of a big turn around. I still have my lifedrive but I'm trying out the Nokia 770. I'm sorry if I come off as a "wing nut" I'm just not sure how to get through to everyone. I just can't believe that everyone is so happy that all palm is doing are treo's and WM phones. I mean in the end why does everyone care about Palm, if they don't make a current product that we can use they fall into the who cares, next please category. So let me ask everyone who is pro palm. If Palm never again makes anything but a cell phone is that ok?

- The silent majority of handheld fans are waiting for a turnaround, like yourself and I.
- Not everyone is happy about the onslaught of Treos. Plenty of people are unhappy that mobile handheld experience is being watered down by the compromises made in the Treo ---> PHONE <--- (as in, not a computer).
- They care about Palm because of a) the good hardware designs b) the abundance + simplicity of software c) the online community d) the history
e) the specialization of Palm Inc, as opposed to Microsoft doing a bit of everything in every imaginable market.
- I am pro-Palm. But if they are to become WM + Treo centric, classic Palm does not exist for me anymore.
- And no its not OK for just a TReo world. There will always be handheld makers out there, question is who will be smart enough to get that market.

[Vampire Lestat]

And ewah,

I guarantee you that we will eventually see a new generation of mobile computing handhelds with large 320x480 screens with powerful processing, lots of storage and great multimedia oriented screens. And, brace yourself, they WILL have a cell phone radio emitter that will make calls. But that feature will be as a "oh it just so happens to be there like all the other great options".

I expect to see a device that will have Videophone (little cam+mic in front) and VoIP. You will be able to program your VoIP to use a Wifi network when in proximity to a hotspot, and if there is none, it will switch over to the expensive EVDO cellphone carrier data plan mode OR switch to classic cellphone call.

The handheld will be only slightly thicker larger than the TX and will be MOBILE COMPUTING EXPERIENCE centric. Not the other way around; as in phone-centric.

Just hang in here there buddy, you are not alone.

[Iamaboff]

This would be the perfect treo for me:

http://www.freewebs.com/chrisboff/Treo800Slider01.jpg

By the way, I did not draw this, I am not sure where I found it though.

[Vampire Lestat]

Nice artwork there.

I would get rid of the sliding keyb and antenna though.

[Jimmie Geddes]

I agree with Vampy on removing the antenna and sliding keyboard, it's nice to dream though.

I think once ALP comes out, there will hopefully be mroe licensees to do the things Sony did. ALP or Palm OS II will breathe new life into the Palm OS community, we all have given them long enough and I have a good feeling about it. Don't mean to sound too Palmyanna, but I believe things are going to get better.

Palm has made Windows Mobile much better, and either OS they choose ALP or Palm OS II, we will benefit from it.

[Sharkk717]

First off, let me thank alan and jimmie for the excellent cast. It was great fun speaking to both of them.

I'm glad we sparked some discussion, although this thread seems to have developed into more of a "Why do Tyler and Jimmie hate Palm OS and love WM?" which is sort of funny since we never said that and it's 100% off the mark.

--

Hi Vampire Lestat,

Thanks very much for the compliments on my coding ability. It's very nice to hear that the stuff i write is appreciated :D However, you've got it all wrong in regards to me and WM

>Too bad Tyler is gone over to the dark side.

That's absoultely not true. I use my 700p daily, and I only use my 700w once in a while. I very much enjoy having a w even though it's not my primary device. You can't criticize me for simply owning a wm device. That's not only ridiculous, it's also blatant hypocrisy given that you own at least one yourself.

>Tyler has a WM Treo, he only has so many hours in a day, and the hours spent learning/developing WM, he can no longer spend those on making groundbreaking Palm OS programs.<

Currently, my time is divided between coding for WM and Palm in a ratio of about 1:100... and most of those WM hours were spent setting up Visual Studio! What's more, I've never released an app for WM. ever. and all my projects for the forseeable future will be Palm OS apps.

--

and that treo mockup looks pretty sweet, but i'm a big fan of the no-antenna look :D

best regards, tyler

[Scoobie]

- The silent majority of handheld fans are waiting for a turnaround, like yourself and I.
- Not everyone is happy about the onslaught of Treos. Plenty of people are unhappy that mobile handheld experience is being watered down by the compromises made in the Treo ---> PHONE <--- (as in, not a computer).
- They care about Palm because of a) the good hardware designs b) the abundance + simplicity of software c) the online community d) the history
e) the specialization of Palm Inc, as opposed to Microsoft doing a bit of everything in every imaginable market.
- I am pro-Palm. But if they are to become WM + Treo centric, classic Palm does not exist for me anymore.
- And no its not OK for just a TReo world. There will always be handheld makers out there, question is who will be smart enough to get that market.

Finally, a well thought-out VL post. It seems that we actually agree on what we would like to see, but I think our opinions of Palms future differ. You're thinking that Palm has given up to WM and will build only Treo's, (if not only WM Treo's) seems just plain wrong.

I feel very confident that we'll get to see a POS2 from Palm soon. By soon, I think within the next year. Using WM provided a way for many new corp. users to enter the Palm fold as it applies to Treo's. I for one don't wish to see WM show up on a handheld, but you never know. Choice is always a good thing in any market.

Palm has (just recently) stated how important the handheld (non-Treo) market is the their bottom line which seems to send a pretty strong statement that we'll see more. We also know that since Treo sales make up about 70% of Palms total sales, we will continue to see more of them as well.

My issue with your posts has always been your "if I don't get my way" attitude. You need to remember that you can't buy a PDA the way you buy a computer and thus we are given a choice of models that will best suit out tastes and needs. Palm is in this for the long haul, don't mistake that. I don't think they've always made the right decisions but they've done pretty well for themselves considering most everyone else seems to be folding or cutting back. I'm sure they are looking to the future as much as any tech company can and I expect they will make devices that will continue to meet my (and everyone elses) needs.

Be patient. Your needs are pretty much being met with at least one of all the devices you say you have. The big concern over phone centric vs. handheld centric is kind of moot at this point. It's clear what people are buying for the most part and Palm is acting accordingly in order to give the market what it's asking for as techonology and the cost of such technology provides. They are ALSO providing for what the smaller population of that market is asking for as well.

Personally, I have a Treo 650 and a TX and I've found that I'm not too crazy about the 650. I would also like to see more handhelds.....and I'm sure I will.

[Jimmie Geddes]

Good or bad Tyler, we stirred up some people from 1src to PalmAddict;) There's nothing better than getting people talking:) I never understood where people got that you went to the dark side. If anyone has gone to the dark side it has been me, loving my 700wx. It's great 1src has a podcast and a forum, nothing like getting people to think:)

No one has been cruel at 1src, and we can all agree to disagree. There's nothing better than questioning things:)

[Romeol]

I agree. 1src's Podcasts are still informative and a treat for all Palm users.

[JAmerican]

Hey Alan,

How long should our recordings be for the 100th episode, mine is like 10~11minutes. LOL

JAmerican

[Jimmie Geddes]

I agree. 1src's Podcasts are still informative and a treat for all Palm users.

1src podcast is still the best podcast, it's something to be proud of to still be going strong after 2 years and 2 hosts.

[holvoetn]

1src podcast is still the best podcast, it's something to be proud of to still be going strong after 2 years and 2 hosts.Yeah, but they really need to do something about that second host :D

<H ducks away and takes his helmet ...>

[Alan G]

That second host prepares a volley from central Florida and takes aim at his pal from Brighthand.... lol!

Alan G

[Dick Tracy]

Hey where's #98?? Did you pack it in a suitcase or something?

[blues]

Hey Alan,

How long should our recordings be for the 100th episode, mine is like 10~11minutes. LOL

JAmericanYeah, mine is kinda short.... thinking that when Alan puts everyone's together, it's gonna be about 2 or 3 hours long, LOL

I guess the longer the podcast, the better Alan and 1src has done to unite the Palm community with good informative discussions.

[johnsoax]

This would be the perfect treo for me:

http://www.freewebs.com/chrisboff/Treo800Slider01.jpg

By the way, I did not draw this, I am not sure where I found it though.

I would take that treo just as it is shown. I live in the middle of nowhere, and unless my EM fields class lied to me, the external antenna will beat out the internal all the time.

Hopefully we will not have treo casts all the time. Besides the one above, I have no desire for a Treo. I have tons of reasons, and they are all mine. :)

The audio quality was horrible. Hopefully you can figure out the multiple people thing.

And it is pronounced Treeeeeeo, not Trayo. ;)

[Dick Tracy]

Number 98 please...Alan told me he sent it seven days ago. Where is it???

[holvoetn]

He usually posts it Thursday evenings, sometimes even Friday mornings ...

So I WANT to have it when I wake up tomorrow morning :D

[Dick Tracy]

H, Alan let me know a week ago before he went on vacation that he had uploaded #98. It has not been posted by the powers who post in the last seven days...

[holvoetn]

H, Alan let me know a week ago before he went on vacation that he had uploaded #98. It has not been posted by the powers who post in the last seven days...Yes, so he did but I think it is still Joel who has to make it visible.
And I assume he has received detailed instructions from Alan as far as timing etc. is concerned ;)

[potter]

Number 98 please...Alan told me he sent it seven days ago. Where is it???If all else fails, try making a guess at the URL. The following appears to work, but I have not listened to it yet.

http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3?http://www.1src.com/podcasts/1SRCPodcastNinetyEight.mp3

[holvoetn]

Thanks potter !