MS PRO 460MB instead of 512MB

[infty]

I just got a 512MB ms pro today. But it happens that it only has 460 MB instead of 512MB. Is there anyway to use the entire stick? or did they lie about the size?

[cbulock]

This is normal on any media you buy, be it hard disks or flash memory. There is physically 512MB there, so there not lying, some of it just needs to be used for system reasons.

[YTTAN]

I got 237mb space available only for 256mb MS Pro.

[timw_de]

This is normal on any media you buy, be it hard disks or flash memory. There is physically 512MB there, so there not lying, some of it just needs to be used for system reasons.

52Mb seems a bit much for system reasons even by Sony standards. Perhaps thats why they're so expensive, theres so much system on them
As a comparison, I have a 512Mb CF card which shows as 500Mb
- 12Mb I can live with, but 52Mb - thats a whole mp3 albums worth :(

[Pen-Pen]

Originally posted by cbulock
This is normal on any media you buy, be it hard disks or flash memory. There is physically 512MB there, so there not lying, some of it just needs to be used for system reasons.

No, that's not exactly that, it's financial.

Normaly, one Kilo = 1.000
The hardware see one Kilo = 1.024

So normaly one Mega = 1.000.000
Hardware one Mega = 1.024*1.024 = 1.048.576

So physically, you've got 512MB = 512.000.000B
But hardware only see (512.000.000/1.048.576)*1.000.000 = 488,281250MB(this result is an approximation, calculation is actually more complex considering than it is necessary to make calculation for each multiplier per 1.000)

With this law, My 256MBCF card have 244MB free.

[Zelocke]

We really need that CF driver.. hehehe :D

[n2ifp]

Originally posted by cbulock
This is normal on any media you buy, be it hard disks or flash memory. There is physically 512MB there, so there not lying, some of it just needs to be used for system reasons.

I agree, it's the same on all storage media, my 256mb CF card only shows only 242mb. BTW, this also includes hard drives. This a question that all PC owners should know by now. It is not a government secret, LOL :D!

[Eddy]

wow, impressive with the calculations presented up there. Nice to see some posts with valuable info. :D
I read about the MS Pro's actual usable mbs. Now only if I can find that link........ Oh here it is... although in Japanese, surely we all can read number figures!
http://www.sony.co.jp/Products/mssupport/media/ms_pro.html

For 1G MS PRO (approx. 940MB)
512MB MS PRO (approx.460MB)
256MB MS PRO (approx. 220MB)

seems just about correct with the above posts.

[cbulock]

Originally posted by Pen-Pen


No, that's not exactly that, it's financial.

Normaly, one Kilo = 1.000
The hardware see one Kilo = 1.024

So normaly one Mega = 1.000.000
Hardware one Mega = 1.024*1.024 = 1.048.576

So physically, you've got 512MB = 512.000.000B
But hardware only see (512.000.000/1.048.576)*1.000.000 = 488,281250MB(this result is an approximation, calculation is actually more complex considering than it is necessary to make calculation for each multiplier per 1.000)

With this law, My 256MBCF card have 244MB free.

Thanks for posting that. Yes, thats true as to where the storage goes. I didn't want to explain all that though as I did in another thread and it turned into a ten page argument with basicly everyone disagreeing with me. Plus, I'm not a big math fan.:D

[*YellowRose*]

Hmmmm.
Maybe *THAT'S* why we only have 11 meg instead of 16 on-board. heh.

:D

[Ghosty]

well.. when they say 512MB they mean 512 Million bytes, it does not mean 512 Mega Byte~~~~

16MB of ram, you really don't get 16Million Byte of ram though... :(

[kdn102]

That's nuts! Even taking into consideration the industry non-standard use of KB/MB/GB, etc and the file system space, these numbers seem way too low.

On my 128MB MS I have nearly 124MB free. This seems to indicate that SONY went from 1KB = 1024 bytes to 1KB = 1000 bytes. If they were using the 1,000 on the old MS's they would start off with only 122MB free before formatting and file-system.

Maybe SONY decided to redefine 1KB to be 976 bytes (this is just dropping another 24 bytes from 1K if you're curious)? Using 1KB = 976 bytes gives us approx 465MB free on a 512MB stick! *laugh*

[Ghosty]

Well, this is all numbering game after all..... I just hope that it 1k won't get any smaller than what we are having right now.

[Eddy]

LOL :D

[Token User]

What about the cluster size, does that have an effect as well :D

As an aside, Clie files reports my 128MB MS as having 124MB capacity, and my 1GB Microdrive as having 1021MB capacity. Only lost about 4MB on each card to the system.

[UZI4U182]

Anybody know what really is free on a 256mb PRO? Maybe buying two of those would be a better deal? :)

[blackcarrera]

With Clie files on my 256 Pro it says capacity 238.
With McFile it says 243.
With Filez says 249
With MSGate it says 249.
My computer says 249.

Why are the numbers not consistant if this is a system thing.

[cbulock]

Originally posted by blackcarrera
With Clie files on my 256 Pro it says capacity 238.
With McFile it says 243.
With Filez says 249
With MSGate it says 249.
My computer says 249.

Why are the numbers not consistant if this is a system thing.

I notice McFile reports total space in KB. And Filez reports total space in bytes. So does Windows. Since it takes 1024bytes to equal 1KB and 1024KB to equal 1MB, thats probably why your numbers are different.

[blackcarrera]

Probably, though I'm not educated with this kind of stuff.

Maybe we need to make a 240MB video clip and see if the 256 Pro will have enough room on board.

[ksjenkins]

This whole discussion boils down to Marketing versis Engineering.

Marketing 1GB = 1,000,000,000 Bytes. (No math just perception)
Engineering 1GB = 1,073,741,824 Bytes. (2 to the 30th)
Marketing 512MB = 512,000,000 Bytes.
Engineering 512 MB = 536,870,912 Bytes. ( 2 to the 29th)
Marketing 256MB = 256,000,000 Bytes.
Engineering 256MB = 268,435,456 Bytes. (2 to the 28th)

Hard disk Manufactures are the worst 40GB = 39,979,958,272 before the fat32 filesystem which boils down to = 37,200,000,000 usable.

If I check my 128MB MS FileZ reports 129,695,744 Bytes vs 134,217, 728 Bytes via the Engineering method (2 to the 27th). McFile reports 126,656,000 usable. Windows reports (thru MSImport) 129,695,744 Bytes but over to the side 123MB!

So the rating is closer to the Marketing method of what you see is what you get - minus Filesystem overhead!

Your mileage may vary, the larger the MS the worst the overhead??

Can you actually vary the cluster size on a MS when you format it. Or does the MS memory optimizer fool you into thinking that you can write different cluster sizes when the hardware formats the MS it's own way??

[Pen-Pen]

Originally posted by *YellowRose*
Hmmmm.
Maybe *THAT'S* why we only have 11 meg instead of 16 on-board. heh.

:D
Originally posted by Ghosty
well.. when they say 512MB they mean 512 Million bytes, it does not mean 512 Mega Byte~~~~

16MB of ram, you really don't get 16Million Byte of ram though... :(

No, you're wrong, when you have a 128MB memory stick for your computer (RAM) you see 131xxxKb on the memory test, so you really have 128MegaBytes, that's when you buy a data device (like hard disk) that this law is effective, and the memory on the clié is like ram on your computer.

For kdn102, have you really read my post, I've said that the number I've done was an approximation to have a short and comprehensive post, and, maybe the memory stick you're using have more than 128 million Bytes, the one I own have 129 695 744 Bytes, 123MB usable, here the proof : http://pen.2.free.fr/images/MS.jpg look at the line where you can see the word "octets", octets is the french word for Bytes.

Am I a liar? The thing I say are nuts? OK, let us see your knowledge.

[YTTAN]

Originally posted by *YellowRose*
Hmmmm.
Maybe *THAT'S* why we only have 11 meg instead of 16 on-board. heh.

:D

I thought this had been discuss long ago.

The 5 meg loss in the ram is for the device to use it for dynamic heap so as to handle Netfront and Piscel viewer well enough to run smoothly as well as for speedy purpose. That why all other palm devices can't run this 2 big appls.

[YTTAN]

My 256mb MS Pro is reading 237.8mb free space in card info & Megalauncher while Clie files read 238MB and Mcfile read 237MB only when I just bought it.

When I use window to view it when I use Ms import in clie, it show 249,430,016 bytes which is 237.8MB also.

I was wonder whether if I format it from FAT16 to FAT32, will it increase it's space near or max. to 256MB?

[blackcarrera]

Nope, it wont; if it does for you then I’m surprised.

[keesercc]

this is getting a little out of hand. plain and simple, 460 *useable* Megabytes on a 512 card is ridiculous. anyway you slice it, the *the advertised* size is MUCH larger than the actual space available. to me IMHO this is a rip.

[vansouza]

I think we need the size before the pro sticks are formatted... because once that is done it takes up space with its file system... yes?

[ksjenkins]

Originally posted by keesercc
this is getting a little out of hand. plain and simple, 460 *useable* Megabytes on a 512 card is ridiculous. anyway you slice it, the *the advertised* size is MUCH larger than the actual space available. to me IMHO this is a rip.

 

It's all about Marketing. Just because your car has a 160MPH speedo doesn't mean it will really do 160!!

I agree that you "should" get closer to 512MB when you buy a 512MB MS but you must take into account the overhead of the filesystem. 

 

Heck remember a few years ago 512MB RAM was only found in very high-end servers cause it cost major $$$. Remember when 640KB RAM was all that anybody would ever need???

Count your blessings that 512MB doesn't cost over $1000 and is the size of a shoebox!!!

 :p

[timw_de]

The discussion is all ver well, and you can add up the numbers any which way you want but the question remains
why ONLY 460MB from 512Mb on a MS
but 500Mb from 512Mb on a CF card ???
why does a MS need so much more system space ?
(if that is the reason)

[cepler]

For the proper definitions of megabyte, mebibyte etc please see the following URL:

http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

[cepler]

(In summary, megabyte=1 million bytes, mebibyte=1,048,576 bytes)

[cbulock]

Originally posted by cepler
For the proper definitions of megabyte, mebibyte etc please see the following URL:

http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

One thing to note, these were 'standardized' 5 years ago, yet I have not seen anyone actually use this.

[keesercc]

plus, Accounting for overhead, almost *60 MEGABYTES!!!!!???* C'mon! that is not overhead, that is a major problem. system overhead should be a fraction of the overall storage. 460 out of 512, %89.8 percent free, aprox. %10 GONE. 500 out of 512 (from previous post) %97.6 percent free. less than %3 used.

[cbulock]

Originally posted by keesercc
plus, Accounting for overhead, almost *60 MEGABYTES!!!!!???* C'mon! that is not overhead, that is a major problem. system overhead should be a fraction of the overall storage. 460 out of 512, %89.8 percent free, aprox. %10 GONE. 500 out of 512 (from previous post) %97.6 percent free. less than %3 used.

By reading the previous posts, I think by accounting for the differences in the MB definition, the card should have about 488MB of space on it. Then you have to take into account the FAT32 file system. I don't think that takes 18MB, but its still not close to shorting you 60.

[rlc7254]

Originally posted by Eddy
wow, impressive with the calculations presented up there. Nice to see some posts with valuable info. :D
I read about the MS Pro's actual usable mbs. Now only if I can find that link........ Oh here it is... although in Japanese, surely we all can read number figures!
http://www.sony.co.jp/Products/mssupport/media/ms_pro.html

For 1G MS PRO (approx. 940MB)
512MB MS PRO (approx.460MB)
256MB MS PRO (approx. 220MB)

seems just about correct with the above posts.

 

I got 938 with my 1gb MS Pro stick.

 

 :D