got myself a PPC

[dmitrygr]

i got myself a ppc
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330011953511


after seing all the stuff P1 and Psrc pulled out of their respective hats last few days i somehow feel a bit more WM programming will be needed then Palm.

No, I am not leaving or stopping development yet, but i do intend to gradually shift my efforts over that way. Unless I see a NON-PHONE pda out in the fall, i will shift ALL resrouces to WM.

[mrp123]

I agree with the large majority of your post, dmitry. The only disagreement I have is your choice to not develop Palm apps if Palm doesn't releases new non-phone PDAs.

If people still want Palm's products where Palm gives them no choice but a converged PDA, they'll likely buy it anyway and still look to you for new apps.

Unless I see a NON-PHONE pda out in the fall, i will shift ALL resrouces to WM.

My suggestions is don't spite the users if you disagree with Palm's and Palmsource's product releases. I think that'd be a missed business opportunity for you. Plus you'd have a disappointed following. If demand for Palm apps fade, then you have your answer.

[frauen1]

Actually, I wouldn't move to PPC only from Palm OS if the only justification is that you do not see Palm releasing a non-phone PDA. I think you'll find that other vendors are either moving in the same direction as Palm is in this respect (or abandoning the space altogether).

The bigger issue is that there are still niches for these devices but the vendor's don't necessarily think they're profitable. Palm is probably more successful here than most (in terms of making a profit on this market).

(And Dell and HP both make some nice devices here.)

[dmitrygr]

I got an Used Axim X51V 6 month ago & I keep comming back to the TX.The Axim is nice but I barely use it!

who said anything about using. I intend to use my TX. but if the market shrinks enough developing for palm will become useless so i need to be ready.

I agree with the large majority of your post, dmitry. The only disagreement I have is your choice to not develop Palm apps if Palm doesn't releases new non-phone PDAs.

If people still want Palm's products where Palm gives them no choice but a converged PDA, they'll likely buy it anyway and still look to you for new apps.



My suggestions is don't spite the users if you disagree with Palm's and Palmsource's product releases. I think that'd be a missed business opportunity for you. Plus you'd have a disappointed following. If demand for Palm apps fade, then you have your answer.

yes that is what i meant

[Cyker]

It's good to code for different platforms so go for it ;)

PPC code is veery similar to coding for Windows API, so if you've done that it should be very easy to get into as you'll already know how retarded and arse-backward it is :D
Most tools and tutorials are for C++ rather than C so you end up coding at a higher-level than WinAPI a lot of the time 'tho.

I'd like to get my hands of a Zaurus just to see what that is like, 'tho I doubt I'd use it as a PDA due to the crappy interface. Realistically I think I will have to get a really small laptop in the future, something the same size or smaller than a Sony TX-series. My dream is to find one thats slightly bigger than an A5 footprint with a GeForce 6200 video chip in it :) (And Wifi, DVD burner, 10 hours battery, 1.5cm thick etc... ;))

Current range of PDAs just don't interest me at all - My loathing of the butchering of PalmOS that is NVFS is well known, and I hate PPCs even more (I don't know how people can use it for extended periods without smashing it against a wall!!) and don't get me started on 'smart phones'!!. (The Treo 650 is nice, but I'd never pay such a ridiculously large amount of money for something so inferior to my TH!)
Hell, I'd rather use a Psion 3/5 or a Palm V/III than go that way!!

I thought about UMPCs, but the more I find out about them the more I think that UMPCs are utter crap - They have the slow loadtimes, lag and bloat of a desktop machine, but the tiny screen, limited resources, limited use and limited interface of PDAs!
They take the worst points of desktop machines and mate them with all the downsides of a PDA!

Oh well... long live my TH and Zod2 ;)

[dmitrygr]

i have programmed for ppc before, but it was a long time ago. i still prefer c to C++ as it generates smaller code.

[Tam Hanna]

Hi dmitry,
from a Business perspective, you gotta keep one thing in mind.

After the success of WarpSpeed and UDMH/SkinUI, there is a sort of 'hype' surrounding you that IMHO leads to free PR and loads of sales. When you enter the PocketPC arena, you will be a more-less nobody. Be prepared to see a sales droop...

But, why trust me. I predicted that WarpSpeed wont sell well after all... =)

[JAmerican]

I'm going to probably move to a smartphone. I've learned just to go with the flow. Its too stressful fighting for another UX with a better battery life. As you see, even the Vaio UX has issues where that is concerned.

JAmerican

[firelord901]

Im going to move to a ppc. Christmas present= Dell Axim x51v :)

[Tam Hanna]

Hi,
I may just get a PocketPC for playing around eventually too. Maybe from my carrier...

[PinCushionQueen]

If Palm drops off my move will be to a Zaurus. My husband has one (he's a Linux code-monkey) and while I like my TX better, I'd rather own a zaurus than a PPC. This is especially true since I've finally made the full transition to Linux from Windoze. I'll be sad to see you leave the Palm programming arena.

[tk_421]

There have been numerous reports that bth HP and Dell would no longer be bringing out PPCs, due to diminishing demand. WinMob is now on the verge of becoming a smartphone-only platform, most of which have no touch screen.

If anything it will be easier to buy a Palm PDA than a PPC. We'll just have to wait till next year to upgrade our TXs, that's all.


The bottom line is that non-cellular PDAs are a dying breed. If they could release a TX with a cellular radio, I would buy one in a second.


Traditionnal handhelds will be replaced by UMPCs, as they mature and become smaller, have instant-on with flash harddrives, and applications written specifically for smaller screens. I am not saying that it will be better, certainly not. But it's just the way of the future.


If developpers want to devellop for handhelds which are not smartphones, they had better stop wasting their time, and start developping for Windows Vista, and me applications that will work more efficiently for small screens. (Better PIM than outlook, etc...)


Palm is not dead, quite the contrary, but they are now a smartphone company, that's all. We'll just get a new handheld every 18 months or so now. Until UMPCs have the functionality of my TX, I'll just stick to the latter.


Same thing with TVs. High resolution CRTs have a much higher picture quality than current flat screens, but they are a dead technology as far as the market goes. In a couple of years, you will hve SED screens which will be flat and have the same quality as CRTs, but now the market is in a transitional phase. PDAs are in the same type of phase, as they are gradually getting rid of their mobile OS and adopting Windows. As for me, I enjoy the refinement of the "old" technology, and I will wait until the new one matures to jump ship. But jumping from Palm OS to PPC is like jumping from one sinking ship to another.

[JAmerican]

... But jumping from Palm OS to PPC is like jumping from one sinking ship to another.

LOL. Very nice analogy.

I agree. Most technologies are introduced and replace the older even if the new technology does not match certain specs of the older tech, like the refresh rate between CRTs and LCDs. Same goes for Smartphones and PDAs. Most smartphones have yet to reach the specs of most PDAs. Even the Treo does not have the same amount of NVFS as that of a TX. Look at CDs. CDs have replaced flash media in gaming even though the side effect is loading times. Even though RPMs have increased and reading speed has increased, it will quite possibly never reach the speed of flash media in accessing and writing.

JA

[dmitrygr]

1. i am not jumping. instead of having all my eggs in one risky basket i spread them into three, in hopes at least one will stay intact.
2. i started palmos programming also without a name, so i am sure i can build a reputation in PPC and symbian worlds too

[Tam Hanna]

Hi Dmitry,
you need to keep one contant in mind: what you did in the Palm Os world was novel.

In the WinMob world, licencee pressure keeps the licencees from producing dorky stuff and keeping it that way for a longer time(see hizzing screens, etc). also, WinMob is better documentated afaik - so less chances for the famous hacks by disassembly.

IMHO, your biggest strength is your truly insane skill with IDA diassembler. This gave you access to OS internals that Palm wanted to hide. However, on PocketPc, where most is open afaik....

Last but not least, let me tell you that game coding/app coding/sys coding are three very different thingies. I did slight sys coding on autosync, and then got back to appcoding and am now working on an app and a game. this are three entirely different worlds and youll need tome to taskswitch imho...

OMG, I love insomnia, what a long post!

[dmitrygr]

you need to keep one contant in mind: what you did in the Palm Os world was novel.


i see plenty of things not done in wm world that i can do


In the WinMob world, licencee pressure keeps the licencees from producing dorky stuff and keeping it that way for a longer time(see hizzing screens, etc). also, WinMob is better documentated afaik - so less chances for the famous hacks by disassembly.


better? it took me 4 hours to figure out how to use a fuc king listbox without mfc or .net. if this is "better" documented i am afraid to ask what is worse.


IMHO, your biggest strength is your truly insane skill with IDA diassembler. This gave you access to OS internals that Palm wanted to hide. However, on PocketPc, where most is open afaik....


1. most is NOT open
2. i do much more then dissasemblage, belive me :-)


Last but not least, let me tell you that game coding/app coding/sys coding are three very different thingies. I did slight sys coding on autosync, and then got back to appcoding and am now working on an app and a game. this are three entirely different worlds and youll need tome to taskswitch imho...


i have done all three, and am perfectly fine with them all. i may enjoy some more then others but as far as paying for college goes, i can do some things i do not enjoy, if it is needed

[Tam Hanna]

Hi,
the only two things that could IMHO still need doing is a fix for the Multitasking show(aka lower background thread priorities) and a fix for the RAm show.

A friend of mine had a PPC, and I played with it some time. Palm OS still is more efficient, but overall, PPC is catching up fast imho.

As for the listbox, I am a Visual Basic programmer myself. Why leave the warm and cosy .net/VB world when coding a simple app? I am an utilitarian, my code must work...

As for social engineering, that always works =).

As for the three kinds of programming, do not underestimate the time it takes to "taskswitch". When coding on a game and then going back to my app, I sometimes start applying gameish paterns to the app and vice versa. But that could also have to do with insomnia!

I wish you all the best - please dont take this post as naysaying or anything! However, I want to show you risks that I feel to be around. Altough my commentary on WarpSpeed showed how wrong I can be...altough I still believe that Syrius Dire et al could have squashed you in seconds back then....

[dmitrygr]

Altough my commentary on WarpSpeed showed how wrong I can be...altough I still believe that Syrius Dire et al could have squashed you in seconds back then....


i do not remember your commentary.
also who is "Syrius Dire"?

EDIT: i just searched through all my email and found no bad commentary from you. maybe it was said to someone else ;) :eek:

[Tam Hanna]

Hi,
the commentary was that the program would not be a commercial success as the competition already offered everything you did. I said that when you asked us for an oppinion on pricing, etc.

As for Syrius Dire, those are the PXAClocker guys.

[firelord901]

So dmitry how r u liking that ppc? If you don't why not?

[TimothyP]

I made the switch from Palm to PPC about 2 weeks ago. After owning a LifeDrive for over a year. i finally got fed up with the lag, the reset time, internet problems, etc. So i started to look at some PPCs. I narrowed it down to a Dell Axim 51v, Ipaq 2795 and a Loox N560. I decided to go with the Loox N560. I have had it for almost 2 weeks. And i must say, i am very impressed. Its stable, the multi tasking is great. Internet and built in email app work flawlessly, so there is no need to download any 3rd party software. TCPMP works fine as well. And the equal for PocketTunes is PocketMusic. Listening to music couldnt be any better. I can listen to music and at the same time go into CodeWallet (one of my large database) and wont even get a skip. I can also access my memory card without any skips as well.

Also, there is no need to download any office software(Docs to go), the buit in apps handle docs just fine. PocketXPDF is the equivalent to PalmPDF, but i will admit, its not as good as PalmPDF but its ok for now.

So overall, im excited about my switch to Pocket PC. At least with this device.

[iboar]

I'm originally from Austin and watched Michael Dell grow his company from a family car garage to the largest personal computer manufacturer. The guy is a total jerk. His workplace is nothing less than a sweatshop. His motto, unstated of course, is buy the cheapest parts and put them in the products. His first line of notebooks had to be recalled because they burst into flames, much like his current line of notebooks. Bottomline is that he undersells his competitors by offering crap that isn't worth buying.

Case in point, the Axiom line of PPCs. Axioms are total crap, have many times the problems of iPAQs, and actually give PPCs a bad name. So don't judge PPC by Axioms alone. That would be like judging all Fords by the late (and often exploding) Pinto alone.

For those of you considering trying out PPCs, don't listen to all the bullcrap you read in this forum. PPCs are more complicated, but if you can use your Windows PC, you can definately figure out a PPC! And trust me, that simple and elegant PalmOS just doesn't work for complicated applications. Once you learn a dozen or so PPC shortcuts, you can easily get things done as quickly and even more quickly than on a Palm. For those who cannot master the PPC interface, I'm amazed that they can even figure out how to post on this forum! It's not rocket science folks, although you can do rocket science on a PPC.

The bottomline is this, if you want a PDA that is closer to being a miniature computer, then choose the PPC (but not an Axiom). If you want a toy to play videos, MP3s, games, take extremely low resolution photos, or you simply want to use it for a PIM, then the Palm is an excellent choice.

And finally, as a person who makes a bit of money selling Palm themes et cetera, I agree totally with dmitrygr's moving to the PPC side for developing software. Palm sales of software and themes and stuff have dropped off dramatically. Many developers have already jumped ship because they saw their sales drop to as little as 10% of what they once were. Part of the problem is the mentality of the current techno-generation that thinks it should be able to get everything for free. Part of the problem is directly due to the drop in sales of PalmOS devices. But whatever the reason, sales have been drastically reduced leaving many developers little choice but to seek a better market elsewhere. Go for it dmitrygr, and good luck!

[palmTE]

So is it worth investing in PalmOS apps?
I just got a TX since I found my old Vx to be 'just right'; it performed it's intended functions well, was aggravation-free and extensible. It was a pleasure to use; I can't say that about any version of Windws. I deal with IT at work and don't want to hack the registry etc in my spare time; my impression is that one needs to do more such fixing + tweaking with PPC.
My PDA is for PIM, productivity and some entertainment. I want it to be extensible in a limited sense (wireless options, replaces other gadgets such as iPod) and serve as a PIM/notetaking/ document editing/ email/video playback device so I don't need to drag a laptop around.
So, now that I have this shiny new toy, is it a dead end to buy PalmOS apps? OR, perhaps Palm will bring out another PDA generation when they extricate from the antique current OS and onto a Linux platform?

Your considered thoughts are apreciated.

[Dan_42]

So is it worth investing in PalmOS apps?

I think a lot of current Palm users (except for super die-hard fans) are probably asking themselves the same thing. I am.

But I still went ahead and bought a new Palm game last month. I probably won't be paying for an upgrade to Agendus (which I use every day) or even some document applications - the current versions of all the other stuff I have are working just fine.

I guess that the new Palm emulation layer is supposed to be pretty good on ALP and you'd hope that Palm OS II (if real) can match that.

Since your T|X is still quite new (and does everything you want/need it to), I'd figure you could get at least 2 years out of it...so you could likely make good use of additional software.

[LupeValenz]

If I were to get off the Palm os ship *when my TH dies* then I would have to find something from Fujitsu. ^.^