ebooks obsolescence?

[badboy]

Just thought of this for some reason, here goes...

"For the first time, it's now possible to build up your own library of your favorite books that won't ever age or deteriorate!"

That is a quote from Palm Digital Media's FAQ on their website.

Now, given that you need Palm Reader to read Palm Digital Media's ebooks, what guarantee is there that they (or any other e-book company for that matter) will a) support upgrades compatible with technological change (think 5 or 10 years down the road, new Clies, new Palm OS's, or some completely new OS and no more Palm) and b) even be around in 5 or 10 years?

In other words if you buy an ebook today isn't there the possibility that you will not be able to read the book 5 or 10 years from now (unless you hang on to your old Clie, but maybe it dies then what?), whereas with a paper book you will always have it (despite yellowing of pages etc)?

Have been spending a few bucks on e-books lately, they are great for convenience, but...any thoughts?

[hherbzilla]

Originally posted by badboy
Have been spending a few bucks on e-books lately, they are great for convenience, but...any thoughts? You're thinking too hard about this. :)

[anniebluesky]

Actually I don't use such a proprietary application for my ebooks. If pdb files get obsolete, then I'm outta luck.

[badboy]

Originally posted by hherbzilla
You're thinking too hard about this. :)

Yeah, I know... :)

[Atomsk]

Is it possible to convert an ebook to, say, an unformatted text document or is preventing that the whole point of whatever copy protection they might have?

[archangel]

Palm Digital supports PC and Mac as well, so I'm thinking my books will be okay, but I seriously doubt they will go out of business. Their sales have continued to increase and they have become the leader in Ebooks. I wouldn't worry.

[exiii]

I prefer txt files when I can get them because they are convertible to everything else. But I agree that the Palm Digital format is pretty safe - now anyway.

[elf]

Originally posted by badboy


Now, given that you need Palm Reader to read Palm Digital Media's ebooks, what guarantee is there that they (or any other e-book company for that matter) will a) support upgrades compatible with technological change (think 5 or 10 years down the road, new Clies, new Palm OS's, or some completely new OS and no more Palm) and b) even be around in 5 or 10 years?



Your concerns are quite valid. Let's say you had bought e-books in a proprietary format for an Apple Newton, would you be able to read those books today? Would that company still be in business today making books for the Palm or PocketPC and would they have made a reader ot converter to allow you to read those books on today's PDA?

Michael Hart, who started Project Gutenberg decided on a plain ASCII format (HTML is still ASCII with mark-up) because ASCII has remained a standard for 20 years (the proof is in the fact that PG books from 20 years ago are still readable and available today).

I, personally, would not buy nor recommend buying encrypted or proprietary encoded ebooks (including Adobe Ebooks)-- you will be certain to regret it.

Companies are in the business of making money NOW they don't care what happens 5 or 10 years down the road-- only the earnings for the next fiscal quarter matter.

[archangel]

Originally posted by elf


I, personally, would not buy nor recommend buying encrypted or proprietary encoded ebooks (including Adobe Ebooks)-- you will be certain to regret it.



I really doubt this. If we all support Palm Digital Media by buying their books that will ensure they will be around. If I only use free txt files I won't be able to read copywrited books. I'm not going to pass on that.

Besides I'm sure if they go under someone will find a way to unencrypt their books anyway and convert them to text files.

[aem2kcivicsi]

i dont usually keep the books i read around. i like to share the wealth, if its a book i got to read again im sure i can just find it at a used book store. problem solved

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by archangel

Besides I'm sure if they go under someone will find a way to unencrypt their books anyway and convert them to text files.

Only if they repeal the DMCA -- otherwise they'll go straight to prison for even trying.

[mol23]

Annie, Stinky Pete is adorable!

[exiii]

It really bothers me that Project Gutenberg puts line breaks and multiple blank spaces in their books. That itself kills compatibility with small screened devices. All the books end up with out of sync line breaks throughout them.

Every Gutenberg book I get I have to run it through a text editor that will find and replace the ine breaks (notepad does not - I use Macromedia Homesite). So I can read it without having to jump down the page for every midsentence line break.

Most devices and/or readers will wrap the text automatically. And many will even indent or space the first line of every paragraph automatically as well.

[elf]

Originally posted by exiii
It really bothers me that Project Gutenberg puts line breaks and multiple blank spaces in their books.

I believe that is happening to a lesser extent. Remember that some of the PG books are 20 years old and PDAs didn't exist then, so formatting was for 80 column screens.

What I typically do is convert the PG texts to HTML (using a Perl script I wrote, which ignores line breaks; double line breaks get marked-up as paragraph breaks) and read them using Plucker (http://www.plkr.org).

[exiii]

Originally posted by elf


I believe that is happening to a lesser extent. Remember that some of the PG books are 20 years old and PDAs didn't exist then, so formatting was for 80 column screens.

I admit that I not know that. They've really been doing this since the early 80's? Being relatively new to to ebooks, I just assumed everyone else was as well. :o

Originally posted by elf
What I typically do is convert the PG texts to HTML (using a Perl script I wrote, which ignores line breaks; double line breaks get marked-up as paragraph breaks) and read them using Plucker (http://www.plkr.org). That's a good idea. I could probably build a macro using word to do this - I'll try this. But I've tried plucker for books, and it's not my favorite ebook reader.

DeepReader has the best fonts for black on white text, but nothing beats the customizeable background and text colors of the PalmReader Pro.

[yorrick]

Tt is a valid point that when the technology is no longer used (because of obsolesence) or the protocol isn't very popular, you have lost the means of decoding the data.

The prevalency of Palm devices do ensure that the palm text format should survive as long as palm devices exists.

The format that has a far more uncertain future are proprietary document formats or secure document formats. They rely too much on the company supporting the software as long as it makes money for them and publishers okay them being delivered in this format.

Personally - I prefer the text format so any palm device reader can pick up on this. A device reader that can have fancy fonts, backgrounds etc is a bonus - as long as it isn't coupled with proprietary formatting in the document.

[yorrick]

One question that never seems to be adequately answered.

Is there a piece of PC software that would convert a palm pdb document back into ascii / text?

[archangel]

Originally posted by yorrick
One question that never seems to be adequately answered.

Is there a piece of PC software that would convert a palm pdb document back into ascii / text?

Handstory has that ability built in. I believe there are freeware aps that do it as well.

[yorrick]

archangel, I just had a look at Handstory. Are you sure that Handstory can convert from palm pdb document format back to plain ascii?

Do you have any other links to unconvert pdb documents back to ascii?

Thanks in advance.

[*YellowRose*]

Originally posted by yorrick
Do you have any other links to unconvert pdb documents back to ascii? Well, the program I use to convert .txt to .pdb, called DocInOut (http://www.palmblvd.com/software/pc/DocInOut-1999-05-22-palm-pc.html) does the .pdb to .txt conversion as well. I'm not sure that it will work with ALL formats (like Mobi, Handstory, etc.) but it does work for plain, unencrypted doc files.

All you have to do is drag and drop. I just tried it with a .pdb I had, and it works just fine.

It's freeware, and has over 12,000 downloads at the site above. I've used it for a couple years now, and it's an excellent piece of software.

Good luck! :)

[elf]

Originally posted by exiii

DeepReader has the best fonts for black on white text, but nothing beats the customizeable background and text colors of the PalmReader Pro.

I just looked-up DeepReader, and you're right, it has very beautiful fonts.

When it comes to ebooks on a PDA it's all in the fonts-- if Plucker could use (or had a similar set of) the fonts that DeepReader uses, it would be just as good.

I think that DeepReader also does anti-aliasing (and maybe sub-pixel rendering) to enhance the viewing experience.

[archangel]

Originally posted by yorrick
archangel, I just had a look at Handstory. Are you sure that Handstory can convert from palm pdb document format back to plain ascii?



Its the PC part that does this. Right click on the Handstory Icon in the Tool Bar. There will be an option for convert. Move the mouse over conver and the other options will appear. Click on "from Palm pdb file" and you can convert standard palm doc files to .txt files.

[tpilcher]

Proprietary formats like PeanutReader/PalmReader can not be translated back to .txt or normal PalmDoc format.

(I think I saw an article in a newsgroup some time ago where someone had cracked the encryption scheme, so it is possible in theory, but not practical at this point.)

However, I have several hundred dollars worth of e-books purchased from PeanutPress - now PalmPress - over the last few years. While my investment might be at risk of PalmPress goes under, I don't care. The bigger picture, IMHO, is support of ebooks as a legit publishing format - and when you get .txt or .pdb doc files from "bookz" - - or even from Project Guttenburg - it undercuts the viability of ebooks for publishers.

Book publishing is like music publishing in that a lot of cost 'overhead' is front-loaded by the publishing companies. Also, the field is restricted by publishers who only go with writers who have obvious commercial appeal. Unlike the music industry and .mp3 format, however, book publishing has started to approach the possibilities offered by the internet in a slighlty more proactive way.

I think that is well worth supporting, even if I might loose the ability to 'leagally' read my ebooks if PalmPress went under. We all know that. if PalmPress went under, someone would have a decryption program posted on the net within days - - with no company left to sue them for making it available.

TP

[yorrick]

archangel - thanks for that info. It requires me to register the full version to access this functionality.
Will have to look into Handstory as I am not convinced it is the way to go...