How Good is the Macbook compared to pc competition?

[veritech]

I'm i right in thinking that the macbook is the only "pc"

with dvi out(even if it is via a dongle)
dual core cpu
16:9 screen under 15.4"
wifi and bluetooth
with good battery life
under a $1000/£800

[Joel]

It never hurts to try it... then return it if it does not meet your needs. I've heard extreme stories of people "just" buying the MacBook for the form factor and running exclusively XP with it. ;)

Always remember that computer (and gadget) needs are heavily subjective. So go with what you feel... and let us know about what eventually your choice will be. :)

[minimalposter]

And read Switchblog!

I recently switched (January) and will never leave Mac again ... well unless something better is around ;)

[Joel]

And read Switchblog!

I recently switched (January) and will never leave Mac again ... well unless something better is around ;)

Thanks for the mention :) I've been busy the past few weeks but I'm trying my best to post a bit more stuff that I find interesting.

[daver]

Macs and PCs are completely different creatures altogether... so it's hard to directly "compare" them...

[veritech]

Macs and PCs are completely different creatures altogether... so it's hard to directly "compare" them...

how did you come to that conclusion, they are both x86(well they are now) machines capable of running windows. The only difference is that macs ship with a different os.

All i really want is a unix environment to learn about software development, and nice easy access to a terminal. I like the design and finish of the mac book, along with the size. The mac os x is bonus, not the selling point for me.

[daver]

how did you come to that conclusion, they are both x86(well they are now) machines capable of running windows. The only difference is that macs ship with a different os.

All i really want is a unix environment to learn about software development, and nice easy access to a terminal. I like the design and finish of the mac book, along with the size. The mac os x is bonus, not the selling point for me.
Macs are designed to run Mac OS (i dunno what versions and stuff), while PCs aren't specifically designed to run any OS (but obviously Windows is the OS of choice). plus, Macs are better for multimedia out of the box (iLife anybody? and if i'm right, i'd say in at least 75% of cases) while PCs are built mostly for just getting things done (PCs don't have an iLife style suite because the majority of PC users away from offices are just home e-mail checkers and video game players).

i would say that a Mac is more like a designer computer, while a PC is just a generic computer. it's how they're marketed and how they're designed that makes them different from each other. also, their evolution from day one until now clearly shows that they're different. look at how many different designs Apple has put out in the past 20 years.

but if you like the Mac, and since it is Unix (Mac OS is Unix, is it not?) it'll fit your needs fine. i just think that it's safer to go with a cheap PC to kind of trial software dev before going and further. a lot of people go nuts first, give up whatever they're doing, then look back and go "son of a gun, i don't need this anymore"

[bh77a]

@ daver,

You are correct, the Mac OS X is UNIX with a GUI (very nice one at that).

@ veritech,

There are many things that make the Mac stand above most PC's, and the main one of those is Mac OS X itself. Rock solid stable, and on, and on.....................................................and on!

Personally I have an iMac, two iBooks (work) and a PC that quickly was relieved of Windows by Fedora Core 5 (Linux). Couldn't be happier... well unless I had a MacBook.

[dragonsgames]

MacBooks look awesome. They are better looking than most PC laptops (thinner, simpler), faster (because of Mac OS X), easier to use (because of Mac OS X). If I had the money, I would go out and buy one right now! ;)

[daver]

@ daver,

You are correct, the Mac OS X is UNIX with a GUI (very nice one at that).

...

Personally I have an iMac, two iBooks (work) and a PC that quickly was relieved of Windows by Fedora Core 5 (Linux). Couldn't be happier... well unless I had a MacBook.
but likewise, there are many things that make the PC stand above Macs. unlike most people of this world, i'm not a fanboy of any operating system (OK, maybe Palm OS, but that's different). i think that all hardware and software have their strengths and weaknesses... no one is better than the others, just different.
but if i came out sounding like a Windows defender, then i take back my original comment. i just thought it's not fair to directly compare different types of computers (Macs and PCS) as if they were similar models, for example comparing iBooks to Macbooks... (sorry guys, i really don't know my Macs, but i tried)

i think that the Macs are great computers, and that the Mac OSX would be a good SW dev environment as well. but i just think that the price tag is a bit too hefty if you're somewhat reserved in thinking that you really want to dive into SW dev. maybe that's just me though; the more cautious type

Rock solid stableyou know, Windows can just be as rock solid as Linux (woohoo, go linux!).... as long as you don't install anything or even *touch* the computer! i think one time i sneezed and my computer hung. coincidence or bad luck? lol
the Windows logo should have 2 quadrants with broken glass for all the crashes and then the other 2 quadrants iced over for all the program freezes/hangs, lol!

[daver]

MacBooks look awesome. They are better looking than most PC laptops (thinner, simpler), faster (because of Mac OS X), easier to use (because of Mac OS X). If I had the money, I would go out and buy one right now! ;)
see, one thing i don't understand is how does the look of a computer make it "better" than a different computer? just because it is a different colour, or has rounded edges doesn't make it perform faster or necessarily have better or worse hardware.

they're just different.

[Joel]

Just a reminder:

All Intel-based Macs can run Windows XP via Boot Camp (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/) as a dual boot setup. Meanwhile, Parallels Desktop (http://www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/) lets Windows, Linux, or any other OS run from within OS X.

[egadgetguy]

@ daver,

You are correct, the Mac OS X is UNIX with a GUI (very nice one at that).

@ veritech,

There are many things that make the Mac stand above most PC's, and the main one of those is Mac OS X itself. Rock solid stable, and on, and on.....................................................and on!

Personally I have an iMac, two iBooks (work) and a PC that quickly was relieved of Windows by Fedora Core 5 (Linux). Couldn't be happier... well unless I had a MacBook.
Sooo... If MACs are so great, Why did they have to switch to Unix OS, Intel Chipsets, and be able to run windows???

I Use about a dozen or so PCs daily for different tasks. 7 are streaming capture boxes using windows media.I go weeks without rebooting any number of them because they are so stable, I don't need to. Most of them are newer then two years, but a couple are up to 4 years old.

I also use two different G5s that are two years old. They are identical configurations. The one I have had to use the most is unstable. I have had some kind of crash almost ever time I have used it. Sometimes its IE that crashes, Final Cut Pro, the ONLY reason we even HAVE the MACs, crashes EVER TIME.
See, I edit video, I currently use Premiere Pro or AVID. ON the PC I am using PP, it is stable and may have a hiccup causing me to have to restart the app once every 30 hours of use. Re-booting is usually only needed 5% of these times.
The MAC usinf FCP... well, I didn't buy it for me, but the few times I have tried to use FCP it has crashed within 10 minutes. I have NEVER successfully edited the smallest project on it. Rebooting is mandatory when it crashes. Also, FCP loses everything I did 100% of the time because I never can get to where I can save anything. PP autosaves backups and recovery is usually a matter of redoing the last five minutes or less of work.

[dragonsgames]

Very strange. I don't know why that is happening to you, but I have never heard of that happening.

[veritech]

Another question, is it worth waiting the months for the 64 bit chips, i say months as i would think that apple will put the core2 mobile chips in the Mac book pros and leave the mac books till last.

I want the macbook for when i start university in september, i don't need it, but it would be nice to have.

As i said Mac OSx is just a plus, in my mind i'm just buying a computer, there is a possiblity that i'll wipe it the second i get it, and install ubuntu and xgl+compiz and goto town. I doubt i'll do that, but i might, i only use windows to work with IDE's and such, and i run it in VMware on ubuntu linux.
So don't try and get me back, windows lovers, windows(XP) is good, but a unix(a debian based distro at least) system is a very powerful beast. All the compilers built in, apt-get, fancy GUI, and completely free.

[dmitrygr]

How Good is the Macbook compared to pc competition?

how good are apples compared to oranges' competition?

[veritech]

I seem to be confusing people, i meant how good is the hardware compared to PC hardware, in terms of specs and finish. A very apples to apples comparision.

Unlike OSX vs "insert OS here"

[bh77a]

@egadgetguy,

- Apple moved to UNIX because (a) previous versions of OS were crap and very unstable, "spaghetti code", UNIX is very stable, etc
- IE will crash as it is unstable on Macs (MS discontinued the Mac version of it and recommends using Safari or Firefox)
- a program crashing should only crash the program... not the entire OS. Does it crash the entire OS?

@veritech,

You're question makes perfect sense and my answer is that Macs, hardware and MOST SPECIFICALLY OS are superior. While the hardware is great, it is the OS that is the best feature. I do love Linux and the concept behind it, but the Mac OS X is just wonderful... I would suggest getting the MacBook and being happy with it. You could always install Ubuntu or FC5 on a seperate partition as Joel mentions, but you shouldn't wipe OS X off the map. The hardware of Mac's in my opinion is very quality. I have only seen the MacBooks and used one for about 5 minutes, but loved the size, weight and just fell in love with the keyboard (makes anything else seem cheap). I have had nothing but positive experiences with Mac hardware over the years (4 iBooks, 1 iMac, 10 eMacs).

* These are just my opinions based on my experiences... Take them for what they are worth.

[veritech]

Thanks for everyones input, i'll be dropping bank on one after the WWDC 06, (just in case there are any surprises)

Gonna go for the low-end model 1.8Ghz, nothing a little overclocking(for the cpu), and part replacement can't fix(super drive, memory, and HDD)

[shieldvideo]

I'm not impressed with MACs. I'd install linux on a PC first. Of all the macs i've ever used, none have impressed me. macs are more expensive, harder to learn to use, and harder to upgrade. plus, less software and games.
not to mention networking on a mac is stupid!

Gimme a PC any day.

[Joel]

I'm not impressed with MACs. I'd install linux on a PC first. Of all the macs i've ever used, none have impressed me. macs are more expensive, harder to learn to use, and harder to upgrade. plus, less software and games.
not to mention networking on a mac is stupid!

Gimme a PC any day.
Different strokes for different folks, I say.

I've switched to the Mac in 2003 because I was impressed with OS X. I did have to learn how to use it but I had fun figuring out how it worked. Up to now, I'm still learning new ways.

I still have a PC though. I have it as a hobby machine (as some of you here know). I upgraded (http://suplido.com/joel/2004/09/21/pc-upgrade/) it in 2004... and it still runs current games very well. However, I don't see a use for upgrading Macs because they hold on their own... for example, we have 10 original Bondi iMacs at work (32 MB of RAM, a 4 GB hard drive (that's not a typo!), a 24x CD-ROM) and it still performs well with kinder to 8th grade kids and the faculty too.

As for being expensive, my PC is probably worth two MacBook Pros if I factor in everything I've spent on it so far. Add to that the time "wasted" updating my anti-virus/spy/malware applications. I have spent less on my Powerbook.

Software? I have not seen the need to look for an application that is not available on the Mac. I might install Boot Camp (and use my Windows XP cd with it) but I wonder, how often will I be using Windows and for what?

My potential next project: I have recently seen and run Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com) via a liveCD and might install it on my Powerbook, when the office MacBook becomes mine <evil laugh>.

shieldvideo, I value your opinion but I suggest working with people who really know about how a Mac works. Then hopefully, you'll change your thoughts. Hey, it's what happened to me three years ago. :) Still, if you go PC or Linux, as long as the job gets done, then I'm all for it.

[JAmerican]

I personally dislike laptops because I feel they are overpriced and underfeatured. But of course, thats my opinion. You can get a better PC for the price you pay for a laptop. I also like to build my own computers. I'm still using the computer I built 4 years ago and it still works great.

I also have moved from Intel chips to AMD because of their superiority in performance and gaming. I'm going to build a new computer with a Athlon 64 X2 chip.

As for the MacBooks, I heard that the cases were discoloring, that doesn't look too good to me. Also the overheating issue because of covered vents??? What?? I think I'll stay away from Macs and Intel. Building computers is just so much better. TV Tuner anyone?

JAmerican

[Cyker]

Aside from the stupid name (Mac Book Pro?! PowerBook was a good name, but whoever thought of MacBookPro must have bee on crack!), they are pretty good laptops - Very fast and until recently, some of the fastest laptops you could get.

Runs MacOSX but with some hacking can also run Windows (Well, XP) and Linux, although there are apparently some tricks getting it to boot because of the lack of a BIOS (Intel Macs use something called EFI, which is like a super BIOS that is buggy as NVFS ;))
Easier to do it via virtualisation software than multi-boot 'tho.

Biggest downside atm: They have serious heat issues. You do not want to use this thing on your actual lap as it will probably sterilize you! :eek:
People complain about AMD laptops getting hot, but the MBP is much worse...

Does seem a bit hit and miss 'tho; Maybe they fixed it in newer ones?

Next biggest downside is that they're a bit expensive considering...


Bottom line: The hardware is pretty good. Better (PC) laptops are emerging, but slowly.

Software side - MacOSX is pretty cool, but I find it very counter intuitive - I was brought up on Windows 3.0, so I find the Mac interface confusing; If you were brought up on, say, Amiga Workbench then it would be easier to adapt.
Personally, I prefer Windows and the X-Window System with Enlightenment or KDE
But really it doesn't matter - As long as it works and does what you want, who cares, right? ;)



My current wish is for an A5-sized laptop (Say 11" diagonal 4:3 screen) with a 3D accelerator fast enough to play Darwinia and NWN with everything on ;)

Not gonna hold my breath 'tho...

[veritech]

The heat issues i've been told are only when it's plugged in, my mum's got a sony vaio, that leaves sweat patches on my shorts when i use it on my lap when it's plugged in. But is fairly cool when i'm on the road.

I can deal with heat issue, i think. The core 2 duo mobile chips would be cooler, but theres little chance of apple putting them in the mac books, i can't justify the price of a mac book pro, so this is it.

@ JAmerican, i love home built pc's too, i writing this on my overclocked athlon xp 2500+, but i need to have my work with me at all times, i find i'm wasting huge chunks of time, because i can't get to do what i need to do when i need to do it.

The notebook will be hooked up to my displays and a wireless keyboard and such most of the time, and i'll still have my desktop.

Update: paid a visit to the apple store today... I'm in love, i didn't take the plunge but its pretty cool, i was gonna benchmark it by writting a C loop, but macs don't seem to have a C compiler onboard :(, and i have no idea how to do it with python, anyways the black is nicer but the premium is a joke. The whole one button mouse thing will take a while, but a mighty mouse might just solve that. Plus theres no del key, Also i saw a kid trying to do a ctrl alt del on mac, lol.

[veritech]

Z mac has been ordered,

Core duo 1.86 Ghz
1 GB mem
60 GB HDD
Combo drive
DVI adapter
Wireless Mighty mouse (It might be a lot for a mouse, but this one mouse button thing is gonna take a while to get used to...)

With a student discount came to about £830, special thanks to AFS ^_^

And yes i know i'm getting ripped off with this whole euro/states pricing thing, but i'm not visiting anytime soon, so i may as well.

[zackepceo]

You can recreate the second mouse button by holding down ctrl while you click, or you can set a preference where it right-clicks if you have two fingers on the touchpad while you're clicking. You can get the delete function by pressing fn+delete(backspace). And OS X comes with some really nice developer tools, you'll just have to install them from the CD.

[veritech]

yeah i got ctrl click down, it just it's weird went your working in a rush.

Any Apps to recommend?

On my list i got...
Open office
Apata (OSS web developer ide)
Gimpshop
Camino and Shiira
Firefox
Democracy
VLC
Some VM software for windows/nix(either the vmware beta or paralells)
Azureus
Thunderbird
An msn Client
Synergy
Google Earth

What else is missing?

[JackAxe]

Return the Mighty Mouse if it's not too late. :eek: I've been a long time Mac user and stopped using Apple's mice when they figured a hockey-puck styled death-mouse was a good idea for ergonomics.

I use a V400 on my Powerbook and a MX1000 on my G5. Apple's mice are nicer to look at, then they are to work with . :)

My friend picked up the MM, used it for about a month, then switched back to a Logitech.

<]=)

[Cyker]

Yeah, just buy a REAL mouse - One of the great things about USB mice is that multi-button mice DO work on Macs, usually without any extra mods, and a surprising amount of Mac apps actually support the second button!! (And even third and wheel!! :eek: )

I can't believe they still haven't put two mouse buttons on that damned thing 'tho... :mad:

[veritech]

I wanted a Bluetooth mouse. I don't wanna deal with RF dongles etc. i've used the mighty mouse, and it's not too bad. If it sucks i'll throw it on ebay, i like the V400 though, the pop out dongle is cool, but another part to lose.

In the event that it does suck any bluetooth recommendations.

[JackAxe]

My friend uses the Logitech V270 (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2146,CONTENTID=10916) on his MBP. He mentioned it has some latency though, tis why I stick with RF. But I would like the convenience of no dongle.

The MX1000 is one of the few mice that fits my hand nicely, and its tracking accuracy is excellent. I was using a MX700 prior. The V400 probably went overboard with 2 lasers for tracking, but it's a great mouse all around. The 2 extra buttons on the left are usefull, which is primarily why I replaced my V200 with it. But suprisingly, the V200 tracked better than the V400, but not better than the MX1000.

I've personally been using mult-button mice on my Macs since OS9. The horrid-hockey-puck forced me to look for an alternative mouse. When I found out the wheel worked in Photoshop back in 2000, I went out and bought one. Before that, I really didn't know why I would need it.

<]=)

[zackepceo]

My mom just got her Macbook today, and I have to say that it's nicer than it seems on paper. It's smaller than almost all PC notebooks. It's very fast. It doesn't get very hot, contrary to what people on the web have been saying.

[JackAxe]

I've only seen them in the store. I really like the way the black one looks.

<]=)

[firelord901]

On the subject of macs what is the difference between an iBook and a PowerBook. What would the speed difference between a 900MHz iBook and a 667MHz PowerBook?

[zackepceo]

On the subject of macs what is the difference between an iBook and a PowerBook. What would the speed difference between a 900MHz iBook and a 667MHz PowerBook?
Some of the earlier iBooks had the G3 processor, while any recent Powerbook (after 2001) has been a G4. That makes for generally better performance in OS X and floating point operations. The Powerbook will have a 15" widescreen, some sort of DVD drive, possibly more room for RAM expansion, a smaller metal case, and the battery life won't be as good. A 900MHz iBook G3 will be faster than a 667MHz Powerbook G4 in almost everything. If it's a 14" 900MHz iBook G4, I say go for it.

[firelord901]

How good would OS X run on a 900MHz G3? I'm still lookin at the powerbook but i still got a while to figure out (christmas present) Would I see a big difference in internet speed?

[zackepceo]

OS X would run nicely on a 900MHz G3. The computer I'm using right now is an 867MHz G4 and it's not bad at all. Do get as much memory as you can possibly get, though. 512MB is the minimum I would use!

[egadgetguy]

OS X would run nicely on a 900MHz G3. The computer I'm using right now is an 867MHz G4 and it's not bad at all. Do get as much memory as you can possibly get, though. 512MB is the minimum I would use!
I have come into possesion of a G4 tower with a HUGE monitor... I think it's 21" and it's a CRT so it takes up a lot of room. I hooked it up and it connects to my network and sees the internet through my netgear router, but I couldn't see my windows shares.

Is there a way to get it to share and see shares with XP? also, what the heck do I do with this monster? It's OS9 I think. IS OSX available cheap? Could I put linux on it? Would anyone want it?

I havn't much liked or had much luck with Mac's in the past so...

[veritech]

osx is about $100 in your part of the world, if it's a G4 osx should run just fine, after you drop osx on it, the xp shares should be become visable, via samba networking etc.

[firelord901]

Well I found a 12" 867MHz 256mb 40gb combo drive with bt for 10 bucks more then the 15". I think its worth the extra 10 for the speed hard drive and bt

[ssulux]

macbookpro really runs very hot and little bit heavy. other than that i'm very happy.

[veritech]

Yes i've been waiting since the first post!

Ordered the same week the C2D updates came out. Got it November 29th.

it's as follows

Black 2.0 GHz C2D
120 GB HDD
1GB
6x Superdrive

Damn skippy, 4+ hours of battery life doing real word stuff (coding while watching videos), sexiest thing with a cpu, not as stable as i had hoped compared to nix, plus the memory management of osx is a joke compared to nix. Other than those two gripes, handles everything i throw at it fine. Only other down-er is that intergrated graphics suck, i can get beryl to work in ubuntu, but dashboard, and expose, expose the gma 950. If apple upgrades the chipset to the 965 (Open sourced spec GPU) i'll be putting this baby on ebay.

Lastly black is ice cold, but gathers finger prints like money.

Picture curtousy of Flickr
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/120/311618458_f8331db77a.jpg

[dragonsgames]

I am selling my iBook soon for a MacBook... :)