Holy Cow!!!! My Battery Lasts Forever:heres How

[pianoboy]

My lifedrive uses two of these,

http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=967

Whoever guessed that the batteries were lithion-polymer was right. I took my ld to the US Cellular store and had the lady take my lifedrive apart. At first she noted that my lifedrive was bigger and thicker than the one SHE has(this hadn't occured to me, I've never seen another one) the measures for my lifedrive are listed here:

4 and 3/4in. tall.
2 and 9/10in wide
9/10in. thick
8.2 ounces

I took a picture of the lifedrive before we took it apart next to a 12 inch ruler and hosted it online right here: http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8488/10021930fm.th.jpg

In the process of taking a picture of the inside of the device, I accidentally dropped my camera on the table(ouch!!!!!), and now it ceases to turn on, I'm sending it to the kodak people and will send pictures as soon as possible, but nevertheless i'll have to relay the innards of the device via text.

The batteries noted above were located up near the top of the device. But rather than being in their regular rectangular shape, they were changed into cubes that were aligned in paralell to each other. We looked at the front of the batteries and noticed that they drain at 11.1volts, wich is much higher than the regular 3.7. I don't know how this works but it does. The batteries were hooked to a standard split connector that hooked them to the power supply(see drawing). The rest of the innards looked much like you would expect, the hard disk, the wifi chip and the microphone. After a quick look, and a waiting customer, we put the thing back together and I headed back home with my supercharged LD and broken camera.

I've been charging the battery for three hours now, and have noticed that they are only 33% charged. I've never noticed the charge time before because I always charge the LD overnight. We'll see how long it takes to change.

I don't know what mod you would have to perform to make a regular LD accept the 11.1v input, but I'm positive it can be done, does anyone know?

There you go guys, no hoax...
I'll post answers to questions if needed, tell me what to look for.
Jesse

[pianoboy]

what does that mean?

[pianoboy]

I will have pictures in about a week, maybe sooner if I can borrow my friend's camera.
Jesse

[anabolic69]

seriously, i hope this ain't a hoax! do post pictures

[joepagIII]

id rather just wait till some company out there makes a beefier battery i already found stock replacements

[joemun]

Don´t believe a word! ...it´s a hoax!

[Cyker]

AMAZING! He's managed to fit two 30mm-thick batteries into a device which is only 20mm thick!! :eek: :p

[joepagIII]

insofar all i have found is an 1800mah.....so if were pateint someone will make a lrger capacity lion cell....

[mike p]

actully hes way off on voltage too, 3 cell is 11.1, 2 is 8.4, 1 is 3.7, but if he has too of the linked 8.4, thats more like 16.8

[SoS]

someone lock this thread :mad:

[potter]

My lifedrive uses two of these,

http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=967
Hmm, might it be that the "Transmitter Battery Pack" referenced above could be disassembled into three cells; two of those cell have then been put into this LD, wired in parallel?
At first she noted that my lifedrive was bigger and thicker than the one SHE has(this hadn't occured to me, I've never seen another one) the measures for my lifedrive are listed here:

4 and 3/4in. tall.
2 and 9/10in wide
9/10in. thick
8.2 ounces
Hmm, all of those measurements look about right, other than thickness. Besides some internal photos, we could use a photo that shows it's thickness, and maybe one that shows the device's back.

I don't know what mod you would have to perform to make a regular LD accept the 11.1v input, but I'm positive it can be done, does anyone know?
I am sure such would take some serious modification to the charging and power regulation of the device. More likely is that the battery(s) have been modified.

[potter]

From http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=967:
Maximum: discharge rate 10 Amps.Oh [insert an exclamation here]! Please be careful when your device is open. That is a [insert another exclamation] lot of current.

[Cyker]

Why would he do that?Same reason people painstakingly photoshop fake Palm PDAs ;)

Oh [insert an exclamation here]! Please be careful when your device is open. That is a [insert another exclamation] lot of current.
Yeah, it's fun when you accidentally short out one of these... "AHH CHRIST IT'S ON FIRE! FIRE!!! FI-*POP!*"

And then all that's left of your lovingly built balsawood powered glider is a few bits of charred wood and solarfoil, some servos and a very sad speed-controller/receiver :(

[pianoboy]

I'll be borrowing my friends digital camera today, I'll take some pictures of the back and the thickness next to my ruler, the inside pictures will follow in a couple of days. I'll be leaving on a roadtrip in about a week and a half, we'll see how well my battery holds up to 12 hours in the car. Anyway, I won't be able to get on the internet on my vacation, so I'll make sure to post the pictures of the inside before I head out, but then I'm gonna have to sign.

Look for the thickness and back pictures sometime later today.

J

[timepilot84]

I don't know what mod you would have to perform to make a regular LD accept the 11.1v input, but I'm positive it can be done, does anyone know?


Answer: You're lying. Please go away. You don't know enough about electronics to lie well enough to pull this off.

[potter]

I don't know what mod you would have to perform to make a regular LD accept the 11.1v input, but I'm positive it can be done, does anyone know?Answer: You're lying. Please go away. You don't know enough about electronics to lie well enough to pull this off.
Another possible answer: His perception of what is going on and what is actually going on are not the same thing. To say something that is false is not necessarily to lie, to tell a lie one must knowing say something that is false. It may be that the battery pack in question has been modified separating three 3.7 V cells, then some number of these cells have been rewired together in parallel. The voltage would still be 3.7, but if who ever did this rewiring left the sticker on, one would easily assume that it was an 11.1 V cell.

At this point I am a bit skeptical. (Very opportune time for the camera to fail.) But I am willing to try to look at more evidence. Currently my biggest problem is not with the width of this battery, but with the length. The battery claims to be 100mm long. That would not fit in the normal 46mm space. But then, two cells laid on top of the normal battery and micro-drive might add 10mm to the overall thickness of the device. Thus I am awaiting more photos.

To aid in visualizing what I am saying, an image of the inside of the Lifedrive: http://myarticle.enet.com.cn/images/200507/1120614134262.jpg. If there is a problem with directly linking this image, a link to the article it was pulled from http://www.enet.com.cn/article/2005/0706/A20050706431564.shtml (Chinese). My referenced image is the second LifeDrive image from the second page (http://www.enet.com.cn/article/2005/0706/A20050706431564_2.shtml).

[pianoboy]

if the fellows here are so insulent concerning my lack of engineering background or lack of technical knowledge that they accuse me of lying because I accidentally drop my camera(that was given to me for Christmas), then I will be taking my information elsewhere. Those actually willing to help me here can find my new sets of posts on the google forums: subject line:"Lifedrive".

To those who were helpful in this discovery, thank you.

73
J

[potter]

Great [sarcasm], we scared him away. Poking around on Google, I have not yet found where he is referencing. But, I am not familiar with “google forums”. Has anyone else found it?

[_Em]

Maybe he's talking about this?
http://www.googlecommunity.com/

Either that, or I'd guess he's talking about:
http://groups.google.com/

Neither of which, of course, is a "Google Forum."

By the way; such a device *might* be possible by inserting a case spacer and connecting the batteries to both the USB power line and the power supply line, with proper resistors inline to balance the voltage appropriately. However, I'm sure whoever did this hack would have posted something about it by now, before selling it to this individual. I'm definitely sure Palm wouldn't sell such a device. 3v and 5v are safe industry standard voltages; 11v is closer to a 12v car battery (albeit without the amperage).

Personally, I'd withold judgement until I see evidence; someone might actually have been stupid enough to boost voltage instead of amperage in their LD, and sell it.

[Cyker]

Yeah, I figured there'd be a get-out clause before any actual evidence was shown.

If it was real I'm sure he'd be rushing to post such things just to make us doubters eat humble-pie.

I was kinda hoping I'd be proved wrong (As I say, a battery with that kind of capacity in my TH55 would blow every other device ever made out of the water for battery life (Except the VZ90 ;)), but there you go...

I'll believe it when I see some more people duplicating this feat ;)

[timepilot84]

At this point I am a bit skeptical. (Very opportune time for the camera to fail.) But I am willing to try to look at more evidence. Currently my biggest problem is not with the width of this battery, but with the length.

Perhaps you didn't notice, but he claimed to have 2 of these battery packs in his LD.

[JAmerican]

Wow, what great lengths people go through to lie. Especially on 6/6/06 day.

JAmerican

[pianoboy]

http://groups.google.com/group/lifedrivebatteries

[JAmerican]

I just find it funny how you told us you'd take pictures by Monday then your camera breaks? There is no one else that has a camera? Why can't you tell us the writing on the battery? Providing information helps to rid the idea of lying. But to keep dragging this on and not show evidence is not plausible at all. There have been a lot of people that have come and made us believe crap then leave laughing. You eventually get tired of it. You may not be that type of person, but if you want what your saying to be believed, you have to show evidence. Whether you go on the web and find the battery yourself or you buy a disposible camera and take pictures with that. Otherwise you won't be believed.

Even if I said that to everyone, no one would believe me because 5000mAh is just beyond a handheld battery. Its too large. Some laptops don't even have that much. You have got to prove to us that your not lying and stop saying its not a hoax. In order for people to believe you, they have to be able to see some evidence.

JAmerican

[Demonstar]

Is it April 1st yet? :D

[potter]

http://groups.google.com/group/lifedrivebatteries
Thanks. I will keep an eye to see what develops. Sorry the disbelief has made you feel unwelcome here. Too many people here have seen too many "scams". At this point, I am a little skeptical. However, taking the stated facts and overlaying them with my current interpretation, I find this modification to be quite plausible. I am still interested, and would like to see more.

[potter]

At this point I am a bit skeptical. (Very opportune time for the camera to fail.) But I am willing to try to look at more evidence. Currently my biggest problem is not with the width of this battery, but with the length.Perhaps you didn't notice, but he claimed to have 2 of these battery packs in his LD.You cut my paragraph off too soon. The rest of that paragraph:
The battery claims to be 100mm long. That would not fit in the normal 46mm space. But then, two cells laid on top of the normal battery and micro-drive might add 10mm to the overall thickness of the device. Thus I am awaiting more photos.
My current assumption is that what he thinks are two of those battery packs, are actually two cells pulled out of that battery pack, but with the label of the battery pack still on one or both of them. I am assuming that this battery pack has three cells in it, each about 10mm think and rated at 3.7V.

[potter]

Agreed, inopportune time for the camera to break, however to take the benefit of doubt and running with the stated facts:
I just find it funny how you told us you'd take pictures by Monday then your camera breaks?
Photos where taken, camera breaks; now unable to get images off of the camera.
There is no one else that has a camera?
Yes, but will now have to go back to the cell shop to have the device open again to take the pictures again.
Why can't you tell us the writing on the battery?
He functionally did already. He identified them as being two of these: http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=967. My assumption is that it is actually two cells from one or two of these battery packs, but that who ever did the mod did not remove the sticker(s).

[timepilot84]

You cut my paragraph off too soon. The rest of that paragraph:

My current assumption is that what he thinks are two of those battery packs, are actually two cells pulled out of that battery pack, but with the label of the battery pack still on one or both of them. I am assuming that this battery pack has three cells in it, each about 10mm think and rated at 3.7V.

Apparently you missed the part where he said the batteries were changed into cubes and they were each labelled with 11.1v?

[pianoboy]

I never said the batteries were labeled 11.1v. I just got the model nums and looked them up.

[timepilot84]

The batteries noted above were located up near the top of the device. But rather than being in their regular rectangular shape, they were changed into cubes that were aligned in paralell to each other. We looked at the front of the batteries and noticed that they drain at 11.1volts,

So by "noticed" you meant "looked up a part number and checked the voltage online"? 'To notice' implies 'to see'.

Bah, I'm done with this thread. Pianoboy's a liar, and a bad one. Ignored.

[zackepceo]

I also think that this is a lie. Palm doesn't make bigger devices. Each step of the manufacturing is automated and standardised to the same parts, and a larger lifedrive would cost Palm a lot of money. And I don't think Palm is stupid enough to start up an assembly line for a PDA even larger than the lifedrive! He said that he dropped his Kodak digital camera that he got this christmas, and that he couldn't get the pictures off of it. Almost all digital cameras have card slots with cards that can be read by a card reader, and I think it's unlikely that Kodak would have sold any for this Christmas.

And why would US Cellular take apart a PDA?

[potter]

Apparently you missed the part where he said the batteries were changed into cubes and they were each labelled with 11.1v?
You are right; I keep overlooking the part where he says they were cubes. However, I am not over looking the part where he says they are 11.1V. My theory has been that:
PianoBoy observed the label on one or both batteries. From this, looking the part number up, he assumes it is this battery. http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=967
Either:
* He miss looked up the battery, and it is not this one.
* The battery pack is actually composed of three cells, each being 3.7 V. Who ever performed this modification separated the cells and put two cells in the LD, wired in parallel, thus 3.7 V. However, the sticker for the whole battery pack is till on one or both cells.

[jjesusfreak01]

Well, a user registered as "pianoboys_mom" has reported this to be a hoax, for the record...

[dragonsgames]

Someone on this thread could have registered as that. I could have (but I didn't), so anyone could.

[potter]

Running with the assumption that this is still theoretically possible:

Find a large capacity battery pack. Ideally one would want it to be 3.7 V, but it may be possible to take a larger voltage battery pack, disassemble it into multiple cells, and then rewire the cells in parallel (instead of in series). (A 7.4V battery pack may divide into 2 cells, 11.1V into 3 cells, 14.8V into 4 cells).

Problem 1: There is often an overcharge/undercharge circuit built into the battery packs. This circuit will not be correct for the rewired battery pack. Did Palm put the circuit on the motherboard instead? I do not know. I would assume not.

Open the device up; remove the existing battery, replacing it with the new cells.

Problem 2: Space. The normal battery is only 34.40 x 46.50 x 10.20 mm (source (http://www.shentech.com/pa1u318pdaba.html)). It is unlikely that this higher capacity battery would fit in that space. Maybe one of the multiple cells might, but the other(s) would have to be put else where.

Lay the extra cells on top of the normal battery space overlapping the micro-drive towards to top of the device.

Problem 2b: Space. Now how does one get the casing closed?

Where the screws hold the casing closed, one could put in some spacers and use longer screws. However, the sides and bottom of the casing back appears to hook onto the front. How does one attach that portion of the casing? Manufacture a new larger back? Duct Tape?

Problem 3: Heat: Inserting these larger cells into the device, one has covered up most of the venting holes on the back of the device, thus reducing the air heat exchange. One has also put one heat generating part (the battery) over top another that does not like getting too hot (the micro-drive).

----------
Another possibility: Instead of using a completely foreign battery, use another battery that was designed for the Lifedrive, wiring the two in parallel. Space is still a problem, but the over/under change circuits would be fine; and the heat would be minimized since the extra battery would not have to overlap the micro-drive.