PalmRevolt or SkinUI

[firelord901]

I'm thinking of buying a skinning program. I want to know which is more stabil( :confused: ) Im probably going to get SkinUI because its cheaper and it can import PalmRevolt skins. Just want to get your opinion on it before I buy one of 'em.

[dmitrygr]

skinui has more skins and v2 will be out soon with even more features

but then who cares about me, i'm the d amn author.

[palm_david]

SkinUI: competition is none :D

[wellsjs]

The GUI of SkinUI is better than PalmRevolt. They both have buttons, objects that don't get skined but they aren't the same ones. I own and run both simultaneously, with the same skin of course - no noticable system performance issues. That gives me the best of both worlds. ;)

So I can't vote as I would have to vote for them both.

[bh77a]

PR is my choice

[firelord901]

@dmitry are we gonna need to pay a fee when 2.0 comes out or will it just need to download it over the current version? When I hit buy now im usin a credit card do I check the shipping box or no.

I'm probably gonna get skinUI seeing as it updates a lot more cuz everytime I check palmpowerups theres always a new version. SkinUI ? if you go into the normal calander app thats built in and if you didn't change it its the one with the water background with a boat. Is it possible to skin the top left of that cuz every other screen skins. Im still usin demo btw. Im on a z72 until i get my TX. Will my ID Change once I get it? Ill b usin same hotsync ID.

[PinCushionQueen]

I tried both PR and SUI for quite a while and ended up going with SUI because of the increased flexibility. SkinUI will as you said let me import skins plus I can edit existing skins and change the colors/transparency of specific items or colorize whole skins.

I find them to be equally stable. The exclude list for both is the almost same on my TX except for Blazer likes SkinUI better than PalmRevolt and I have a DA (EZConvDA) that likes PR but not SUI. Suppose that's why there's an exclude list huh?

I do have one probable bug with SkinUI and OnLaunch (I think SkinUI is interfering with a notification at start-up) and did not have the same bug with PalmRevolt. But Dmitry is aware and it's a minor annoyance - not a deal breaker for me.

IMHO SkinUI gives you more bang for the buck :)

[firelord901]

Do you no if u buy it with credit card if you check requires shipping or something like that?

[PinCushionQueen]

Do you no if u buy it with credit card if you check requires shipping or something like that?

I'm not sure what you mean... I paid with PayPal, but I've a PayPal account for years and there is a shipping address on my account. I would assume if you've never paid via PayPal before that you would have to go through the account setup process in PayPal and they will tell you what they require for an account. Usually paying with a credit card requires at least a billing address for verification purposes.

[tj0827]

Which works better with a launcher? I am looking at initate or Zlauncher and wonder whick of these skins would work better on my 650 with a launcher more than likely initate.

[firelord901]

Well i bought skinUI now to find some good skins from PR and SkinUI :D Happy Customer

[dmitrygr]

@dmitry are we gonna need to pay a fee when 2.0 comes out or will it just need to download it over the current version?


updates always free for my software

[firelord901]

dmitry can you add support for the hotsync button when u go in the actual program? Thats one thing I like about palmrevolt it kind of adds a 3Dish look to it.

[jules3]

Do we get any clues what the new features of 2.0 are and when we get to try it??? PLEASE :)

[dmitrygr]

No. Rememebr what happened on public beta? Let me refresh your memory: some a ss stole the idea, and all the user ideas given on my forum, and used for own app. This shall not happen again. Lesson has been learned.

[braj]

No. Rememebr what happened on public beta? Let me refresh your memory: some a ss stole the idea, and all the user ideas given on my forum, and used for own app. This shall not happen again. Lesson has been learned.

Stole the idea for a skinning app for Palm OS? Is that what you are saying?

[SoS]

c'mon guys, this is history now - we dont need to drag it up again.. :)

[wellsjs]

c'mon guys, this is history now - we dont need to drag it up again.. :)I agree. Dmitry, whether you were wronged or not, rise above it and let it go! ;)

[firelord901]

Guys, skinUI came out first, and then PalmRevolt. PalmRevolt charges more from an app that dmitry made. Pretty much do the same thing. Any screenies that we can see :D

[wellsjs]

Guys, skinUI came out first, and then PalmRevolt. PalmRevolt charges more from an app that dmitry made. Pretty much do the same thing. Any screenies that we can see :DI don't know enough about all the "he said, she said" that went on during and preceeding release of the apps. They are written in different code (PR is a 68k app. skinui is an arm app), so it is possible that ideas and concepts were borrowed/stolen, but actual code? Nope, I don't think so.

I'm not defending Dmitry or Andrew, and I'm not on either one's side, per se!

I'm sure glad that after the invention of the first automobile, that others took the CONCEPT and improved upon it! Now . . . LET"S DROP IT! ;)

[kiteandcamera]

No. Rememebr what happened on public beta? Let me refresh your memory: some a ss stole the idea, and all the user ideas given on my forum, and used for own app. This shall not happen again. Lesson has been learned.

This is why I own PalmRevolt. Regardless of the 'truth' behind the scenes of this long debacle, the one who is faster to market has the competitive advantage.

[PinCushionQueen]

No. Rememebr what happened on public beta? Let me refresh your memory: some a ss stole the idea, and all the user ideas given on my forum, and used for own app. This shall not happen again. Lesson has been learned.

So then maybe a private beta? I'll volunteer to beta test :)

[braj]

Before both PalmRevolt and SkinUI there was PalmTheme. So I don't see how anyone stole from anyone else. Maybe everyone is stealing the 'skinning' idea from Arlo Rose's Kaliedoscope for Mac OS 9?

If it doesn't have the same source code I can't see how any theft could have occurred. Having competition is good for us consumers. And competition isn't stealing.

[firelord901]

Ill beta test too if you need me to.

[bh77a]

@ braj,

Well put... the idea is definitely not unique. Glad the products exist and all, but...

[Church Punk]

ok back on topic...

I personally use both, with different MacOS skins... they complement each other in different apps and features :)

[cyberdude]

I own both apps. Originally I was beta testing skinUI and liked it very much. I was using a T|T at the time and dmitry was having some difficulty getting the horizontal scroll bars to work properly, also I needed UDMH to run SkinUI properly. Then Andrew asked me to beta PalmRevolt (private beta). After testing both extensively and providing feedback to both developers, I ended up buying PalmRevolt, since it still worked better on the T|T. Eventually Dmitry got the bugs worked out of SkinUI and I got a TX. Although SkinUI still wasn't skinning some of the buttons on the built ins I like the granularity of control you can get with it. I think that if v2 of SUI skins those buttons I spoken of then SUI will be way ahead of PR. I bought SUI as soon as Dmitry made it available. I did this for a couple of reasons; 1) I believe that Dmitry is one of the best Palm developers out there today, and therefore should be supported (I own all but one of his apps), 2)although PR skins those built-in buttons I spoke of SkinUI skins some things that PR doesn't, so they complement each other, 3) It is my impression that Dmitry has a better grasp of how NVFS works on my TX than just about anybody else, so I know having his apps on my finicky TX is safe.

[stevec]

I use MySkin! But then, I only use it for the graffiti area and status bar. Works fine on my T5.

[SoS]

SkinUI is ARM and PR is 68K so there should be a speed difference on devices with ARM processors (PXA series and even OMAP (TT/T2 etc..) :)

[cyberdude]

SkinUI is ARM and PR is 68K so there should be a speed difference on devices with ARM processors (PXA series and even OMAP (TT/T2 etc..) :)
There might be, but I haven't noticed it.

[braj]

For those running both: what is involved witrh doing so, do they conflict at all? I'm hoping to get skinUI when a competetive upgrade is ready for consumption. Until skinUI gets 100% of everything skinned I may still need both.

[cyberdude]

For those running both: what is involved witrh doing so, do they conflict at all? I'm hoping to get skinUI when a competetive upgrade is ready for consumption. Until skinUI gets 100% of everything skinned I may still need both.
I have experienced no conflicts. Apparently the ARM (SUI) code loads first, followed by the 68k (PR) code, so PR takes priority. Best if you use the same skin.

[Mobile Stream]

PR is a 68k app. skinui is an arm app
SkinUI is ARM and PR is 68K
Apparently the ARM (SUI) code loads first, followed by the 68k (PR) code

Just wondering, who/what the source of this quite common but incorrect claim is?

Actually, both apps work by installing their own [partial] implementations of certain UI-related system calls and both have them in ARM code. This is a standard approach to do such things on Palm OS Garnet, e.g. Handspring/palmOne one-hand navigation on Treo 600/650 etc is implemented in exactly the same way.

The skin selection and configuration dialogs can be written in 68K code (as it is in PR), but this code is not involved during UI drawing/skinning at all and therefore has nothing to do with the performance.

Such an architecture consisting of the 68K user-visible configuration application and the underlying ARM-compiled engine is very common and often used by the device vendors (e.g. Sony's Data Import (68K)/SCSILibrary (ARM) or palm's DriveModeApp (68K)/DriveModeLib (ARM) etc). PR just has the ARM-compiled application core (engine) and the 68K configuration tool in the same file, so what?

btw, there was a good witness (http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=850018&postcount=4) on PR/sUI priority issue by Igor Nesterov (author of YAHM, besides other things).

[wellsjs]

Just wondering, who/what the source of this quite common but incorrect claim is?It was from Dmitry's reply to me in PalmPowerups forum, in response to my question about loading and application domination.

Perhaps you can solve the riddle in a straightforward answer. Why does PR completely dominate SkinUI? If I start with neither app skinning and load a skin in SkinUI, and then a different skin in PR simultaneously, PR dominates. If I load them in the reverse order, PR dominates.

[Rob_T]

This thread has taken an interesting turn. It seems it is less important which one to get (PR or SkinUI) as they both have their strengths and weaknesses. Rather, perhaps the best answer is...get them both.

I have used SkinUI in the past and am currently using PR. For those of us who are only using one...such as PR...what's the next step in installing and setting up SkinUI. Do you just download the latest version of SkinUI, migrate the PR skin you're currently using, install SkinUI with PR active, and start messing with settings? What have you learned are good apps. for SkinUI and PR respectively? It would be my guess that SkinUI handles Docs to Go and Blazer better than PR, but that's just a guess. Do you have to deactivate these apps. in PR's settings (have PR not skin the app.) to take advantage of SkinUI's features?

Sorry for all of the questions...!

--Rob

[SoS]

This thread has taken an interesting turn. It seems it is less important which one to get (PR or SkinUI) as they both have their strengths and weaknesses. Rather, perhaps the best answer is...get them both.

I have used SkinUI in the past and am currently using PR. For those of us who are only using one...such as PR...what's the next step in installing and setting up SkinUI. Do you just download the latest version of SkinUI, migrate the PR skin you're currently using, install SkinUI with PR active, and start messing with settings? What have you learned are good apps. for SkinUI and PR respectively? It would be my guess that SkinUI handles Docs to Go and Blazer better than PR, but that's just a guess. Do you have to deactivate these apps. in PR's settings (have PR not skin the app.) to take advantage of SkinUI's features?

Sorry for all of the questions...!

--Rob

well, it depends if one wants to shell out $25 for eye-candy!! For me, one is good enough, neither are perfect but skinui doesn the job for me...

[wellsjs]

This thread has taken an interesting turn. It seems it is less important which one to get (PR or SkinUI) as they both have their strengths and weaknesses. Rather, perhaps the best answer is...get them both.

I have used SkinUI in the past and am currently using PR. For those of us who are only using one...such as PR...what's the next step in installing and setting up SkinUI. Do you just download the latest version of SkinUI, migrate the PR skin you're currently using, install SkinUI with PR active, and start messing with settings? What have you learned are good apps. for SkinUI and PR respectively? It would be my guess that SkinUI handles Docs to Go and Blazer better than PR, but that's just a guess. Do you have to deactivate these apps. in PR's settings (have PR not skin the app.) to take advantage of SkinUI's features?

Sorry for all of the questions...!

--RobAs I meant to state above your post, but perhaps wasn't very clear, with both PR and SkinUI running the same skin, only the buttons that PR misses appear to be skinned by SkinUI. Very little skinning in DtoG. I don't have Blazer.

[Mobile Stream]

Why does PR completely dominate SkinUI? If I start with neither app skinning and load a skin in SkinUI, and then a different skin in PR simultaneously, PR dominates. If I load them in the reverse order, PR dominates.
If two applications patch the same system trap the one that does it later will dominate (assuming the installed implementation fully replaces the original code of the system trap).

The natural way to install custom patches is to do it during the system boot. There are several mechanisms in Palm OS to achieve this goal and their mutual prioritization depends on the type of the applications (irrespective of whether it is really an application or a system extension or a virtual serial driver etc), on the creator ID and other factors.

So, in your case with both PR/sUI already installed, they have patched the system traps on boot and PR seems to do it after sUI. That makes the order in which you launch PR/sUI and enable the skinning for the particular application unimportant.

However, if the PR and sUI were installed at the same time and no soft reset has been performed after that, the general rule still applies but the result might be different (i.e. sUI will dominate PR).

Note the assumption about trap implementation in the rule. It is very important for the correct behaviour of the stacked patches.

Generally, the installed patch for the system trap could be in one of the 3 pseudo-states (not all of the pseudo-states are mandatory):
Non-active. The new implementation of the trap just calls the previous one. This is the state when the PR/sUI is initialized but the skinning is disabled for the particular application.
Full control. The new implementation does everything that it needs and never calls the old implementation. I.e. fully draws the button, handles it events etc.
Partial control. The new implementation does something and passes the control to the previous implementation (or vice versa, calls the old trap at first). This could easily lead to conflicts or strange effects. Imagine PR calls the old method to let it draw the button at first. The old method is actually the code of sUI that draws the button with the border of 10-pixel width then returns control to PR's method which draws the border of just 5-pixel width. Clearly, this was not an intention.


Since you don't see conflicts like this with PR/sUI combo, it likely means that PR takes the full control over the patched system calls. sUI behaviour is not known regarding this matter.

[cyberdude]

More to the point SkinUI loads first no matter what because it is ARM code while PR loads second because it is 68k code. Therefore, PR will always dominate if both apps are active.

[Mobile Stream]

SkinUI loads first no matter what because it is ARM code while PR loads second because it is 68k code

Sorry, that is not the real reason. The application loading order does not depend on whether it is an ARM application or 68K one. Might it be the case that you are mixing up the system extensions (databases of type 'aexo' or 'aext') with applications (databases with type 'appl')?

As a proof see this (http://www.mobile-stream.com/demos/appstart.zip) example. Install ARMApp.prc and 68KApp.prc and reset the handheld. The 68K application will print its message ("I'm the 68KApp") first, the ARM application will go second with the message "I'am the ARMApp". The test was explicitly checked with T|T3, T|X, Treo 650 (ENA-1.20) and TH55, but I'm pretty sure it will work the same way on any other device.

[cyberdude]

Sorry, that is not the real reason. The application loading order does not depend on whether it is an ARM application or 68K one. Might it be the case that you are mixing up the system extensions (databases of type 'aexo' or 'aext') with applications (databases with type 'appl')?

As a proof see this (http://www.mobile-stream.com/demos/appstart.zip) example. Install ARMApp.prc and 68KApp.prc and reset the handheld. The 68K application will print its message ("I'm the 68KApp") first, the ARM application will go second with the message "I'am the ARMApp". The test was explicitly checked with T|T3, T|X, Treo 650 (ENA-1.20) and TH55, but I'm pretty sure it will work the same way on any other device.
I am certainly not a developer, so am only reiterating information I've seen posted by another developer. He may be incorrect, or I may be remembering incorrectly, either way I defer to you. :)