Sonic the Hedgehog for palm!!!

[yOyOYoo]

http://software.palm.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=291&platformId=1&productId=60728

check it out it looks sooo cool! I hope it is just like the original with sounds too, but can't expect too much. Downloading now....


http://software.palm.com/SegaHome.jsp?siteId=291

slew of other sega classics.

[cbulock]

I couldn't get this to run on my NX. But then I noticed that it says on the Palm website 'Compatible with Tungsten T'. Must be only for TT then.

[yOyOYoo]

omg this is so exciting, but unfortunately, it doesn't look like any of these SEGA classic games can run on our SONY clies. It is so unfortunate. I wonder if we can all get a hold of the developer and beg him/her to port this over to OS5 CLIEs. I did get a chance to test SONIC on my roommate's Tungsten T. It runs beautifully smooth, just like on the Sega Genesis and Game Gear back in the day. It even has FULL sound effects and music. Although the music is slightly distorted.

These SEGA games prove that the OS5 engine is capable of so much more. I was really quite impressed, it appears to be the entire game, recoded and ported for palm OS.

[yOyOYoo]

Shinobi doesn't run either.... =(

SEGA has got to port this for the Sony CLIEs cuz they can get so much more in sales...

[TheSpies]

I doubt we will ever see it on the Clie. As Sony is so stingy about any dev info many developers do not want to bother with it.

Probably does not work because of the sound api.

[Zork]

Seems like Sega done a GameGear emulator, cause all the games are GameGear games with original graphx.
So much for the rumours that it isnt possible to do emulation software with POS 5. Its surely hard to do, cause of the heap probs, but "hard to do" != impossible ;) .

[TheSpies]

if you look inside the file it looks like its using the actual rom files for the sega.

[Unregistered]

Funny, that Columns was a Clié only release =) . Also, they would just have to ask Chrilith to relicense his Audio code via LGPL

[hansschmucker]

Stupid auto log-out... that was my post

[hansschmucker]

And it doesn't let you login on reply either

[archangel]

Shining Force II! They have to release this for the Clie. Problem is it probably needs the 5 way navigator on the Tungsten to work. Hopefully, they will release a version compatible with the Clie control pad.

[Tixx]

Originally posted by TheSpies
I doubt we will ever see it on the Clie. As Sony is so stingy about any dev info many developers do not want to bother with it.

Probably does not work because of the sound api.
It does look like the same sound error that StoneAge was producing in the Clies at first. They fixed it fairly quickly. The Contact Sega brings up the handango e-mail address: cs@handango.com for some reason.

[hansschmucker]

Yep, I know, but I dropped them a line anyhow and asked them to farward it. See if it works.
The error comes from using a systrap, in this case for the OS5 streaming sound extention without prior checking for existence. In the past this problem never really existed, since Sony always told the developers they were using non-standard code and all examples included checks. But now it seems like developers don't even notice that there's no OS5 sound in the NX.

[hansschmucker]

http://www.sega.com/mobile/help/contact_cs.jhtml
Is the contact adress. Here'S what I wrote them:

Sonic uses the Os5 streaming sound extension without checking for its
existence prior to that, so we NX users are left in the dark. Sonic just
issues an error Sys 0202 (0,1115) and quits. Maybe you can just check
for the systrap's existence and disable sound alltogether if it isn't
available (Allthough that would be a real shame). Other then that, you
could ask Sony for support (Since they worked with Smilebit in order to
get Columns to run, why wouldn't they work with you). If there are any
licensing problems: Chris (Chrilith) has developed a MIDI interface
which provides sound on all Cliés with PA chip. His homepage is located
at http://capers.free.fr/ScummVM

Hans Schmucker
Germany

[Tixx]

I sent them an e-mail too. You are forced to reply to their reply as they try to answer questions in some general e-mail. I just copied my old message, put it in the top and sent it off again.

[Zork]

thespies, yep, the GameGear ROM images. Sonic for example looked identical on the GameGear and were never released for Arcade (k, there were one Sonic Arcade version avail too, but that one were only done for the japanese market and is very, very rare).
Same for Shining Force II. GameGear game.
So Sega simply did GameGear emulation for our favority PDA ;) .
And you stated that the ROM images are placed at some fixed offset. So that way someone could write a tool to replace that ROM with any other legally obtained ones for the GameGear (the first Atari VCS emulation software for the Mac were done the same way, by patching the Activision Action Pack so that it wont just use its own ROMs anymore, but also many others too). That wont result in full support, but im sure that many GameGear games will run that way (as they did with the patched Activision Action Pack on the Mac then. With perfect speed even on old CISC Macs and long before the Stella port for the MacOS existed).

[yOyOYoo]

I emailed the developers too, funny how the email forwarded to cs@handago.com

Anyways, one major limitation on our CLIEs is the lack of the 5 way navigator. It seems to be a necessity for these SEGA games. On the TT, the datebook and address act as "Start/Select", the 5-way navigator acts as the control panel, and the todo/Memo act as "A and B" buttons. So it is a tough call whether SEGA is going to even bother doing this emulation for our CLIEs, as we are missing 2 buttons. Since this is a straight emulation, maybe (hopefully) they can add start/select buttons in the toolbar at the bottom and allow us sony users button remapping. Or they could program the X/Y buttons on the gamepad to act as start/select (does ANY game make use of the X/Y button?)

Afterall, SEGA made columns ONLY for sony sound, maybe they'll consider porting over the other gamegear classics to sony also.... I hope...

[hansschmucker]

You think? We have an additional 320x160 screen size, which should be enough for a start and a select button (The gamegear does not even have a select button). Just make the dtbk adrbk buttons left/right and the todo/memo buttons A/B. Up/down and jog up/down for the Y-axes and everything is OK.

[hansschmucker]

http://hansschmucker.free.fr/PXL_pic.png Just a little something for all you sonic fans. The script I wrote to create this is still alpha, but I think it looks nice nevertheless (What do you expect of 44 lines of GFA-basic ???)

[yOyOYoo]

what is the above image?

[Massman82]

A beginning to an emulator??

[hansschmucker]

Don't anybody know RDS images? random dot sterograms? Basically, you have a repeating pattern, but littles changes show up as 3d when you try to look "through" the image. ARS Edition produced a few books with great artwork a couple of years ago.

Anyway, just try looking through the image, or if you can't do that cross your eyes' view at the middle between yourself and the picture. I know that sounds complicated, but once you've learned it it's actually pretty funny.

[hansschmucker]

After the pattern (128 pixel width) has been drawn this code produces the 3d effect from a depthmap (#9)

sx = 512 //Width of source image
sy = 480 //Height of source image
pw = 128 //Width of Pattern
dv = 16 //Scales Z-info by 1/x

FOR bgy = 0 TO sy
FOR bgx = 0 TO sx
pxl = INP(#9)
COLOR POINT(bgx + pw * 3 / 4,bgy)
PLOT bgx + pw - INT(pxl / dv),bgy
FOR rpt = bgx TO sx + pw STEP pw
COLOR POINT(rpt ,bgy)
PLOT rpt + pw - INT(pxl / dv),bgy
NEXT rpt
NEXT bgx
NEXT bgy



Here's the depth map:
http://hansschmucker.free.fr/PXL_bump.png
The depth information is hand-drawn, so it's not entirely correct, but it gives a pretty good effect already

[to_stargaze]

Ha, the RDS images were hot back in the early 90's and I kina miss them. Never thought I see one again (and never thought one can produce it that easily). Thanks, hansschmucker. Now I need to un-cross my eyes :D

[hansschmucker]

Thanx, I knew from experimentation that RDS file are really basic and you can basically produce them in notepad. A space moves all chars to the right of the current char one unit back until you've reached a columns width. A backspace therefore Brings a column close to the screen. That's about it.

Oh and about your eyes... when you see people running away from you, then you couldn't do it ;D

[hansschmucker]

On other news: The support link on the page has been fixed and now points to Sega@corp.palm.com

[tifosiv122]

Dude that was amazing!

Can you do that with any image?
If I send you one, could you do it or show me how...ie step by step?


This is sooo cool!

Erik

[hansschmucker]

No problem. just get GFA-basic for Win3.11(I know it's old but I still use it for simple tasks)
http://www.gfa.net/pub/gfa/gfabasic/windows/trial-version/
, install it and copy/paste this code:


//Code Begin
//These lines would read DEFINE in C
sf$ = "D:\PXL_bump.raw" //Filename of 8bit Z-Info file (8bit GS raw)
sx = 512 //Width of source image
sy = 480 //Height of source image
pw = 128 //Width of Pattern
dv = 8 //Scales Z-info by 1/x


sx = sx - 1 // Most of the time the range is from 0 to width, so we have to substract one
sy = sy - 1
OPENW #1, 0,0, sx + 2 * pw,sy,0 //Open Window for Drawing
OPEN "i",#9,sf$ //Open file for reading (input)
FOR bgx = 0 TO pw - 1 //Draw one column
FOR bgy = 0 TO sy
COLOR RANDOM(255)
PLOT bgx,bgy
NEXT bgy
NEXT bgx

GET 0,0,pw - 1,sy,scr& //Grab one column
FOR rpt = pw TO sx + (2 * pw) STEP pw
PUT rpt,0,scr& // And paste it a few times agin
NEXT rpt
FREEBMP scr& //remove screencap from memory

FOR bgy = 0 TO sy
FOR bgx = 0 TO sx
pxl = INP(#9)//Get one byte from the input file
COLOR POINT(bgx + pw * 3 / 4,bgy) //Set drawing color to current pixel
PLOT bgx + pw - INT(pxl / dv),bgy//Draw that pixel a few pixels to the right, depending on the depth info
FOR rpt = bgx TO sx + pw STEP pw
COLOR POINT(rpt ,bgy)
PLOT rpt + pw - INT(pxl / dv),bgy//Restore depth in pixels right of the current one
NEXT rpt
NEXT bgx
NEXT bgy


CLOSE #9 //close input file
GET 0,0,sx + pw,sy,scr&//screengrab
SIZEW #1,sx + pw,sy//resize window (clears)
PUT 0,0,scr&//restore using screengrab
KEYGET key//wait for key press


OPEN "o",#9,"D:\PXL_pic.raw"
FOR y = 0 TO 479
FOR x = 0 TO 639
OUT #9,POINT(x,y)//write to RAW file
NEXT x
NEXT y
CLOSE #9

CLOSEW #1
//Code End

Now, create a 512x480 GS image like the one above and save it as Greyscale RAW file in PSP. Now, change the first line to fit that filename.
Also, change OPEN "o",#9,"D:\PXL_pic.raw" to your output filename. This will create a 8bit 640x480 RAW file with a messed up palette. Simply load in in PSP and colorize to make it look nicer.

Still, you can just try to send me a GS image to hansschmucker@e-garfield.com and I'll do it for you. Or somebody could make a self-contained VB version. Or I could try porting it to PHP. We'll see
Or you could just upload the file to the galleries and post a link here. That would be best!

[tifosiv122]

Thanks, i'll try it tonight...

You learn something new everyday!

Erik

[hansschmucker]

Oh and one thing I forgot to mention: It's REALLY SLOW, like 45secs/image on 1Ghz

[GoldenTiger]

Everyone PLEASE email sega about this! And someone, try to make a tool to replace the ROM files with any other ROM file so we can play all our favorite games :)!

[TheSpies]

There is also a plugin for Gimp to do this, i will post the link once i dig it up. Or you can just search through the plugin-registry.

That is excellent work though.

[cbulock]

Hansschmucker, thanks for that image. I rememeber looking at those Magic Eye books all the time in grade school and loved them. I haven't seen one of those in years!

[yOyOYoo]

I just emailed SEGA, let's all email SEGA also and get the ball rolling on development of a SONY CLIE compatible game gear emulator!

[chrilith]

Originally posted by yOyOYoo
I emailed the developers too, funny how the email forwarded to cs@handago.com

Anyways, one major limitation on our CLIEs is the lack of the 5 way navigator. It seems to be a necessity for these SEGA games. On the TT, the datebook and address act as "Start/Select", the 5-way navigator acts as the control panel, and the todo/Memo act as "A and B" buttons. So it is a tough call whether SEGA is going to even bother doing this emulation for our CLIEs, as we are missing 2 buttons. Since this is a straight emulation, maybe (hopefully) they can add start/select buttons in the toolbar at the bottom and allow us sony users button remapping. Or they could program the X/Y buttons on the gamepad to act as start/select (does ANY game make use of the X/Y button?)

Afterall, SEGA made columns ONLY for sony sound, maybe they'll consider porting over the other gamegear classics to sony also.... I hope...

I think you forgot that we have a Game Controller on Clie device.

[Zork]

chrilith, another item to carry around. Fine for Leisure Suit Larry, but our real life pockets are limited in space ;) . I got for example the Sony Ericson mobile phone T300 with the external CommuniCam. Carried it around for the first days ("Look how kewl this is. I could take pictures anywhere anytime" :) , but since then I never ever carried that external cam around with me anymore. So external means in many cases inexistent .
Sony really have to realize, that they are now the only PDA builder left which doesnt offer a DPad with their PDAs. Really thinking bout the Tungsten as some succesor for my T625 cause of that problem. And cause the Tungsten is amazingly small (which again is some benefit with real life pockets) and offers beside HiRes+ anything the way more expensive OS 5 Clies offers (even including a fixed Graffiti area instead of that useless thumbboards).
The only possible DPad replacement with Clies are the thumbboards. But its keys are way too small for using them with fast paced action games like Sonic.
So i still hoping that Sony will release a TG50 with HiRes+ with VG(and therefor trash the thumbboard) and some small DPad. That PDA would surely be a Tungsten killer.

[tifosiv122]

Originally posted by Zork
Sony really have to realize, that they are now the only PDA builder left which doesnt offer a DPad with their PDAs.

What about handspring? Kyosera (excuse the spelling)?

I'm sure there are more out there.

The PDA was never designed with games in mind IMO, the fact that sony offers a controller for those of us that 'know' when we will be playing games is nice. I have 2 games dir. on my clie 'stylus' and 'controller'. Depending on which I have on me at the time depends on the games I play.

Erik

[hansschmucker]

I usually play using two buttons for left right and two for a b. And for most games you hardly need up down anyway, so it's not such a problem that the up/down buttons are small (For Sonic you could even use the memo button for down(roll) as button a and b share the same function on the GG, so we only need one. In addition up/down functions as look up/look down buttons, a function which you will rarely use, so the small Clié buttons are fine for that.

You can trust an old C128/NES/MS/GG/GB/SNES/MD/N64/PS/PS2/NeoGerProSpec veteran concerning such matters. Really

[Zork]

tifosiv, a DPad isnt just a matter of gaming. Its a simple cursor tool too. Almost anyone out there offers it in the menatime, cause it doesnt matter which layout is used for the position of the hardware buttons on the front of your PDA. And building a cross out of hardware buttons surely is the most useful way (wont matter if you use it for gaming or for other purposes).

[tifosiv122]

Originally posted by Zork
tifosiv, a DPad isnt just a matter of gaming. Its a simple cursor tool too. Almost anyone out there offers it in the menatime, cause it doesnt matter which layout is used for the position of the hardware buttons on the front of your PDA. And building a cross out of hardware buttons surely is the most useful way (wont matter if you use it for gaming or for other purposes).

I seperated my statement to explain 2 points.

1. There are other PDA's besides Sony that don't have a DPad

2. PDA's where not designed for games

I wasn't saying a Dpad wasn't good/bad for games or it wasn't useful.

Erik

[Zork]

hansschmucker, sorry, but that aint true. Almost any game out there uses indeed both axis for gaming. Even 3D racing games uses most often forward for accelaration and backward to brake. The ZX Spectrum emulation for example is some awesome software, cause I could play now one of the All Time classics Monty On The Run. But try to play Monty, when you have to abstract from left right with the left hardware buttons and jump with teh page Up button. Its simply horrible. Or Spindizzy is another All Time clasic which works fine with ZX Pilot. Completely useless w/o a DPad !!!
Sony have to include a DPad like any other major ( ;) ) PDA producer. Otherwise it will become more and more useless for people which also (!) likes to play with there PDAs.
PocketPCs lost almost every advantage they ever had, sicne the introduction of the POS 5 devices. But at least they still offer DPads. Sorry, Sony, but when even pure business companies like Palm realizing that DPads are an essential detail, then a company which describe their PDAs as "Personal Entertainment Organizer" have to follow that path too. Otherwise Palm will get back some of its lost market share ;) .

[Zork]

tifosiv,

1) yep, but just non ARM ones. Every ARM player out there is already offering it (perhaps there is again somewhere some small PocketPC producer which aint grouping its hardware buttons as DPad ;) ).

2) yep and nope. PDA are used for general purpose (like PCs). So it have to be prepared for gaming purposes too. Thats why every major player out there already groups its hardware buttons as DPad.

BTW Im sure that Sony realize that development in button layout sooner or later, cause the PDA with the best hardware out there is the last one w/o a DPad (when it comes to ARM PDAs). I just hope for them, that they realize it sooner. Otherwise its Tungsten time.

[Zork]

This got a little off topic ;) . So bout the Sega games. Anyone already analyzed the games so that perhaps there is some header which could be searched at or perhaps that the ROM informations always starts at the same offset ?
Cause with such information its easy to write some patch tool to "inject" other, indeed legally obtained, ROM images into that GameGear emulation tool. Would be a simple fseek followed by some fgets/fputs (perhaps different ROM sizes would be some prob) with the GUI done by the ressoure editor from Visual C++ .

[tifosiv122]

Originally posted by Zork
tifosiv,

1) yep, but just non ARM ones. Every ARM player out there is already offering it (perhaps there is again somewhere some small PocketPC producer which aint grouping its hardware buttons as DPad ;) ).

2) yep and nope. PDA are used for general purpose (like PCs). So it have to be prepared for gaming purposes too. Thats why every major player out there already groups its hardware buttons as DPad.

BTW Im sure that Sony realize that development in button layout sooner or later, cause the PDA with the best hardware out there is the last one w/o a DPad (when it comes to ARM PDAs). I just hope for them, that they realize it sooner. Otherwise its Tungsten time.

(1) ARM ones? Sony and Palm? Common....

(2) For the same reasons people don't use their GBA for keeping phone #'s. When people go to buy a PDA do they ask how many games they can play or does it keep their schedule in tact? Games are a bonus. I remember my first PDA, Pilot 1000. I used it for months without games. The first games were mostly card ones. Games on PDA's have come a long way, but its still not the main focus. Sony doesn't follow the leader, they are the leader. Sony might never release a DPAD in the near future.

Erik

[Zork]

tifosiv, the organizer only era is gone. PDAs are today more like small general purpose devices (and yep, beside Solitaire I also didnt had a single game on my Newton Message Pad then). And Clies with their multimedia features prove that development clearer then most other PDAs out there.
And gaming is indeed one aspect today (noone talked bout a main aspect, just that its one of many purposes). And as long as Clies arent offering DPads they have to fight with a clear disadvantage compared with other pocket sized portable general purpose devices aka PDAs ;) .
And Sony is indeed leader at the PDA arena (I didnt bought my Cie for nothing ;) ), but when it comes to button grouping they have some clear disadantage compared with Palm PDAs and Pocket PCs. And beside HiRes+ (which is realy useful, but there still is no device with HiRes+ w/o that space wasting clameshell design (Sony, you selling PDAs and not bricks :) ! ) . I dont see that much difference between the Tungsten and the ARM Clies. The Tungsten is way smaller, it also offers HiRes now (after all :) ), battery lasts according to reviews longer, you could use Compact Flash cards and its even cheaper.
To make this clear : This isnt some Palm ad ;) . I just comparing todays ARM Palm POS devices and todays Clie POS devices, cause im thinking bout switching to OS 5 POS devices during the next months. IMHO it seem like Sony lost contact with market reality. The NZ is some kewl device, but its amazingly huge and its battery didnt really last long enough for real life usage.
The DPad wont be THE deciding point for buying either the Tungsten or the Clie. But its surely one aspect for such a decision.
Conclusio to close this thread at least from my side ;) : Sony, wake up and release your OS 5 T like POS device (and nope, useful PDA space wasted for a Thumbboard is not an option). They still dont offer any competitive product for the Palm Tungsten (like the T series during the pre OS 5 era). And dont lose your lead at the PDA arena by ignoring the fact that a DPad is now standard equipment a todays ARM PDAs.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Zork
chrilith, another item to carry around. Fine for Leisure Suit Larry, but our real life pockets are limited in space ;) . I got for example the Sony Ericson mobile phone T300 with the external CommuniCam. Carried it around for the first days ("Look how kewl this is. I could take pictures anywhere anytime" :) , but since then I never ever carried that external cam around with me anymore. So external means in many cases inexistent .
Sony really have to realize, that they are now the only PDA builder left which doesnt offer a DPad with their PDAs. Really thinking bout the Tungsten as some succesor for my T625 cause of that problem. And cause the Tungsten is amazingly small (which again is some benefit with real life pockets) and offers beside HiRes+ anything the way more expensive OS 5 Clies offers (even including a fixed Graffiti area instead of that useless thumbboards).
The only possible DPad replacement with Clies are the thumbboards. But its keys are way too small for using them with fast paced action games like Sonic.
So i still hoping that Sony will release a TG50 with HiRes+ with VG(and therefor trash the thumbboard) and some small DPad. That PDA would surely be a Tungsten killer.

Didn't you tell us that you had a T665? Laffs.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by tifosiv122


(1) ARM ones? Sony and Palm? Common....

(2) For the same reasons people don't use their GBA for keeping phone #'s. When people go to buy a PDA do they ask how many games they can play or does it keep their schedule in tact? Games are a bonus. I remember my first PDA, Pilot 1000. I used it for months without games. The first games were mostly card ones. Games on PDA's have come a long way, but its still not the main focus. Sony doesn't follow the leader, they are the leader. Sony might never release a DPAD in the near future.

Erik

Sony is no leader. Palm gets more sales than Sony. Please trash away your biased statements.

[yOyOYoo]

I also agree that Sony needs a d-pad. Try using Netfront or any other program that has side scrolling. If we had a D-pad, think about how easy navigation would be while we're trying to surf the web with netfront. It is nic having the jog dial to scroll up and down, but a stylus is still needed for side to side scrolling.

Times have changed, and jog-dial/back button only doesn't cut it anymore.

Back to the thread topic, let's all email SEGA so we can get these game gear games ported for our CLIEs.

[tifosiv122]

Originally posted by Unregistered


Sony is no leader. Palm gets more sales than Sony. Please trash away your biased statements.


Sales dont equal leadership. I was a loyal palm user for years. Sony had Mp3s first. Buit in cameras first. Jog wheel first. Should I go on?

Why don't you sign up and express your statements?


Erik

[tifosiv122]

Maybe I should say leader in innovation...

Erik

[hansschmucker]

Hmmm... I think it's just a personal oppinion, but I prefer using the jogdial as a second axis for applications. About games. I was talking about Sonic and nothing else. And you don't need the up botton for sonic and you don't need the b button since it does exactly the same as the a button, which leaves us with four buttons, which the Clié offers. And it's the same for almst any platform game.

[tifosiv122]

Originally posted by hansschmucker
Hmmm... I think it's just a personal oppinion, but I prefer using the jogdial as a second axis for applications. About games. I was talking about Sonic and nothing else. And you don't need the up botton for sonic and you don't need the b button since it does exactly the same as the a button, which leaves us with four buttons, which the Clié offers. And it's the same for almst any platform game.

Agreed (on both statements). I love the Jog Dial - Would not buy another PDA without it.

Erik

[hansschmucker]

Also, if programmed correctly the Jog dial alone offers two axis and two buttons:
up/down
pushup/pushdown
push/backbutton

plus combinations
back/up
back/down
back/push
back/pushup
back/pushdown

plus using double tap commands

[Zork]

unregistered, nice to read your "interesting" postings again. Nope, I never stated that I use a T675 (simply cause I dont own one :) ) and Sony is a technology leader at the PDA arena.

[Zork]

hansschmucker, the jog dial is some nice addition for one handed control of a PDA, but it never were thought as second axis for controlling games.
You cant control games by abstracting logically everytime that you like to move your player sprite up ... so dont press any button, but instead turn the jog dial upwards and now you have to move your player sprite right ... so forget bout the jog dial again and use the hardware buttons (didnt even like to think bout a second doin a right jump (most old platform games used up as jump and you had to move right to jump right. With Dpad you simply pressed at the upper right corner and you jumped right. Think bout such a senario with splitted axis). This isnt an option for action or most other games at all. The DPad werent invented for nothing ;) . Its simply one of the fastest way to transfer your reaction into game input.
And this isnt indeed bout either jog dial or DPad, cause the DPad is just some button goup layout of the same buttons which are already placed on your Clie ;) .
BTW Didnt played Sonic for a long time (gonna try it today again with emu software), but isnt up and down also supported as control for this game ? And BTW I Think that Sonic needs at least 2 buttons. One for jumping and one for this kewl looking ball shaped transfer. However .... the Clie has 6 hardware buttons : Calendar, Adress Book, organizer, memo, up and down. So even if you group 4 of them as DPad, you still have 2 of them left as Button A and B. And the good, old Start/Select buttons (from other consoles) could be easily connected with the calculator and the find software buttons (they arent that important most times anyway, cause usually Select is for inventory and Start to get to some game menu or pausing the game).
So the lack of buttons isnt any prob. The position of them is a huge one ;) .
BTW IMHO the Sonic topic is too important to let this thread become of topic. On the other side it seems like many users thought bout the missing DPad prob (either by searching for solutions to bypass that prob or by simply requesting DPads ;) ). So perhaps some new thread bout that topic would be more useful then letting this kewl thread become even more off topic.

[hansschmucker]

Zork, my comment about multiaxes control via jog refered to the posts about using 5way for applications. Not for games (or only as an additional option).
About Sonic: I have a GameGear right here on my desk and I PROMISE you that up meant looking up, down meant roll ("The cool ball thing") and looking down, and both buttons meant jump. So you need the arrows only for looking up, and you never need that in Sonic. Period. End of Sonic control discussion

[hansschmucker]

________________
|(H)__________(C)|
|_______________|
|(M)__________(S)|

_______________
.______(U)______.
(L)_(R)_(D)_(A)_(D)



Should work pretty well

*H=Home
*M=Menu
*C=Calc
*S=Start = Pause

*L=Left
*R=Right
*U=Up = LookUp
*D=Down = LookDown/Roll
*A=Button = Jump

[Massman82]

Has anyone heard anything from Sega yet?
I would be very happy to play this on my CLIE! :) :)

[hansschmucker]

Nope, nothing yet.

[Zork]

hans, tried it by myself too and yep, you need up for looking up (and especially for the hitten items you need every now and then up, but thats indeed nothing you need to reach instantly usually ;) ), but you need roll way often (which is cursor down). And I dont know which Clie u r usin, but with this braindead Page Up/Down switch on the T625 its already hard to use it with real life application, but with games its position is some prob (impossible to at least simulate a DPad as it were possible with the rounded harware buttons on the old Palm III devices) which makes almost every game with 2 axis impossible to play. And Sony still didnt learned anything at all, cause if you like DPads or not (whyever someone would have probs with a new group design of the same hardware buttons ;) ), but one thing should be common : the most sh*ty Up/Down switch ever developed is still used with Clies. Thats something Sony has to solve ASAP.

[Tixx]

Originally posted by Massman82
Has anyone heard anything from Sega yet?
I would be very happy to play this on my CLIE! :) :)

No:(

[yOyOYoo]

nice button setup hans, but us TG50 users are gonna have a problem with the "start" button.

[iebnn]

Zork: Sony no longer uses the up/down rocking switching thing. The NX and NZ have separate buttons for up and down.

[hansschmucker]

Zork: I used the memo button for down as well in my layout, so you really need the up/down combo only for looking up. Look at my layout. The rightmost button is (D) for (D)own.

For the TG users: well, the GG screen is only 144 pixel high so we are left with 16 lr pixels or 32 DD pixels. That should be enough for a start button, I guess.

[GoldenTiger]

Originally posted by Massman82
Has anyone heard anything from Sega yet?
I would be very happy to play this on my CLIE! :) :)

 

Everyone keep mailing! I haven't... don't stop until we get a response!

[yOyOYoo]

I just recieved this response:

Greetings,
Thanks for your interest in SEGA Games for Palm devices.
Currently, these games only work on the Palm Tungsten T handheld. We have plans to add games to other devices in the future (we do not have release dates or list of devices yet). Be sure to check the game pages for updates! We appreciate your support and interest in SEGA games.
Regards,
Sega.com Support


Lets hope they see how many clie owners want these programs as well and make it for us so we can buy it!!

[GoldenTiger]

I too just got that email.

[TheSpies]

Sounds like a brush off to me.

[Zork]

iebnn, I checked the pictures of the TG50 and this stuff still is complete sh*t ;) . Sony, include a DPad and that it and trash this stupid and completely useless rocket switch or any other braindead replacement.

[Puppy]

:( Man this stinks that they're not supporting ALL OS 5 devices. Really lame that the market seems to have fractured like that.

I wouldn't want to try to play an action game with the Tungsten T any more than the NXs, but I'd buy the Shining Force game in a second if it ran. Might actually get Sony's controller for it.

[hansschmucker]

Since the games are marketed by Palm, it's unlikely that there will be a Clié version anytime soon.

[GoldenTiger]

Unless some kind developer patches it so Datebook/Address are left/right...

[JackAxe]

Here's an idea!!!

http://www.bainne.com/BUYME.jpg

THE HARD BUTTONS ON A CLIE' SUCK NO MATTER HOW YOU ASSIGN THEM!!!

<]=P

[Puppy]

Since the games are marketed by Palm, it's unlikely that there will be a Clié version anytime soon.

But that's messed up. They need to support the platform as a whole, not just their own models. On the other hand, the issue may just be the sound...which may be Sony's fault (although who knows, maybe Sony's way of doing it is massivly better or something).

[hansschmucker]

JackAxe, you should know that the Gamepad buttons represent the hardbuttons. Therefore, if we get hardbuttons to work, the gamepad will work as well.
To Puppy (a little naϊve)
Palm Inc. is not the same as Palmsource. They may have the same owner, but generally they try to work independently. And the game was published by Palm Inc. , the hardware developer, who has of course absolutely no ambitions to make this game run on Cliés.

[JackAxe]

Fair enough. There is a slight difference though, I only say this because some games will not work with the gamepad. And when I turn on hardbutton emulation, the gamepad works, but not at a playable level. Also the gamepad offers an additional "X" and "Y" button over the hard buttons. The "Home" and "Menu" buttons can also be used.

PALM must have paid SEGA to make these games exclusive for their Tungsten. I always thought it would be the other way around since SEGA made Colums for the Clie'

<]=)

[hansschmucker]

The sega way generally works with the gamepad, now all we have to do is to remap the buttons

[s_n_m]

Generally the game runs fine on my TG50 it is simply a matter of mapping buttons now. I can't stand not having the forward and backward buttons under 1 thumb.


Isn't it KIND of odd that Sega slipped the code for the TG50 under palm's nose?

Anybody actually TRY out the game controller yet? I would not be surpsied at all if Sonic was coded for the game controller too.

I think originally SegaM was going to release this for clies too, it is painfully obvious. I suspect a release of DIFFERENT games in partnership with Sony (maybe with Master System games built in???).

[hansschmucker]

It doesn't work with the controller. Well, it actually does, but still:
Left is Start and so on

[GoldenTiger]

Hans, check your PM's... :).

[hansschmucker]

Originally posted by s_n_m
I think originally SegaM was going to release this for clies too, it is painfully obvious. I suspect a release of DIFFERENT games in partnership with Sony (maybe with Master System games built in???).

Maybe the emu was developed at PalmInc. and they only bought a license from Sega afterwards which requires them to list their software under the Sega m label. Given the facts that Palm has far superior programmers then Sega when it comes to the Palm platform as well as the fact that Palm publishes the games and there's no support for other Palmsource licensees this seems to be the only logic reason for doing so.

About Sony: I think columns was a Sony production as well. The programming was done by smilebit and Sega offered the concept, but I think Sony actually paid the bills to get exclusive rights on that piece of software

[s_n_m]

Originally posted by GoldenTiger
Hans, check your PM's... :).

Now I want to know exactly what was sent!!!

:)

Is it something to help use the GC10???

[hansschmucker]

Look at that in the meantime, while we wait for somebody who'se as good at programming as Aaron:
http://hansschmucker.free.fr/icons.swf
(Not mine, but great, nevertheless)

[yOyOYoo]

if it is... me want it too!

[GoldenTiger]

Unfortunately, no, it isn't something that will let us play :(.

[hansschmucker]

Nothing really, just a few tools, which didn't help too much, thought I posted it somewhere. Ah here:
http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11352&pagenumber=2

[GoldenTiger]

Originally posted by hansschmucker
Look at that in the meantime, while we wait for somebody who'se as good at programming as Aaron:
http://hansschmucker.free.fr/icons.swf
(Not mine, but great, nevertheless)

&nbsp;

I tried asking in the NX forums, but was just flamed by everyone for being a "whining beggar" :(. Thread got moved to developer forum.

[GoldenTiger]

I might suggest emailing Eruware, makers of the CF driver, asking for a key emulator. They helped us before when Cliesource couldn't use the CF slot. Maybe they would help us if enough people messaged... it shouldn't be too hard for them and would earn more goodwill with the community.

P.S. This isn't a shot out of the dark, by the way. I emailed them and received a response somewhat to the affirmative of this.

[hansschmucker]

key emulator would be nice but too much trouble. All we actually need is analyze the PRC for the values Aaron posted, if they are correct which I honestly have no idea about. Also, I don't know which format he used to write his example: so 07000000 could be just as well 00000007 Both could mean 7 if interpreted one way or another as well as 117440512 (Assuming they are longtype variables). I don't know about that either. Oh,so much trouble just for such a small mistake.