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View Full Version : mp3, ATRAC3, MSpro issues


Unregistered
04-14-2003, 08:08 PM
I had posted this to a different discussion forum, before I found this much better one! This is an incredible resource, and thanks to all the posters! I did find a few answers on this forum to my initial questions, but I am raising a few issues I haven't seen discussed yet...


I've had the NZ90 for over a week now, and have been generally happy with it. This was an replacement for a HP Jornada, where I had a 512 MB compact flash card filled with 56 Kbps mp3 files, so I was looking to do something equivalent with the NZ90, but of course with memory sticks instead. I ran into several disappointments, and I wonder if anybody else has any experience / words of wisdom about the following:

1) Regular memory sticks (up to 128 MB max) only accomodate mp3 files, and will not work with ATRAC3 files, making the SonicStage software included with the unit useless. Worse, only 96 Kbps (or more) mp3 files will work, meaning fewer files that can be stored (compared with my preferred 56 Kbps).

2) I purchased a 512 MB magic gate pro memory stick, for increased storage space and supposed support of ATRAC3 format, which in principle allows 66 Kbps file support (or more).

First disappointment, the price ($264 was the best I could find, at techdepot) is steep.

Second disappointment, of 512 MB, only 460 MB is actually available! Presumably, the overhead is due to copy protection features, but 52 MB is exceptionally poor, especially considering that the entire Palm OS on the unit is 6 or 7 MB...

Third disappointment, although the NZ90 recognizes the memory stick natively and can read/write from/to it, the MS Export software on my desktop (a Dell Windows XP box) is not yet compatible with the memory stick, so I can't write to it yet. SONY tells me it will be several weeks before a software patch is available. Note that the MGMSPTCH.PRC patch SONY lists on their Web site dows nothing to help with this.
Note: I *did* find useful posts here that address this. I guess everybody else is also waiting for the patch...

Fourth disappointment, SONY lists on their Web site that SonicStage is not yet compatible with the Magic Gate Pro format, so even if they fix the MS Export to allow my desktop to write to the stick, I will still not be able to write ATRAC3 files to it. I'm not sure if a fix is in the works. I just installed the brand new patch that supposedly allows Audio Player to correctly recognize ATRAC3 files, but I can't try it until I can get SonicStage to write to the memory stick!

Fifth disappointment, the Magic Gate Pro sticks will supposedly never be compatible with the ATRAC3plus format, which could in priciple allow files down to 48 Kbps (or higher).

Many people advocate sticking with mp3s, but the smaller size ATRAC3 files would be attractive if they can be made to work with no significant degradation of music quality...

Thanks for any comments/info!

skou2 (still waiting for my confirmation message after I registered)

n2ifp
04-14-2003, 08:15 PM
Well, you pretty much covered it :)!

Most of us don't use Sony's ATRAC3 proprietary music format, too many restrictions and a royal PITA in general. So the ATRAC3 issue is something that I personally will never miss.

greg elmassian
04-14-2003, 08:45 PM
I have a pro stick... just wait, it's frustrating, but the driver is coming, already out in Japan.

Atrac3, while more compact, is not worth converting an entire mp3 collection (i have 60 gigs of mp3's) to a different format... you can buy lots of different mp3 players, home, car, etc.

memory is getting cheaper, so i would not worry at all...

greg

Drachen
04-14-2003, 09:06 PM
Best solution until they come out with the US version of the Clie MS-pro patch might just be a memory stick reader. That's what I do. The most cost-effective way is to hotsync MP3s. Open the Palm Desktop and click the "Install" button. Click the "Add" button, select all files in the dropdown menu and find your MP3 file. It will be put on the stick on your next sync.

The discrepancy between the number of MB the card is advertised at and the actual amount you can store is mainly due to the file system, the same as your computer's hard drive or any storage card. There's a big overhead for storing things like the free space bitmap and other filesystem overhead. You'll lose a lot more space with a bigger card/drive, plus the amount of space you lose varies with things like block size and inherent file system limitations.

skou2
04-15-2003, 08:47 AM
Thanks for the replies!

1) No, of course I would not re-rip my entire CD collection (even though I only have 13 GB, not 60...) to go from mp3 to ATRAC3, but to accomodate smaller ATRAC3 files to one large capacity memory stick I *would* be willing to redo those tracks I like best. So I *am* hoping SONY eventually makes the SonicStage/ATRAC3/MSpro/Audio Player thing work, even though I have the same abhorrence as everybody else for these proprietary format shenanigans.

2) I did try the HotSync to the MSpro card business of a few mp3 files (96 Kbps). As people have reported, the transfer is painfully slow, and even though the files *do* end up in the right directory on the MS, Audio Player does not recognize them. I tried large and small files, I tried long and short names, I never got a transfer error, but the same files that are recognized on a regular purple MS are not on the MSpro. Is this a question of audio quality, i.e. is there a higher Kbps requirement for the MSpro card to work?

greg elmassian
04-15-2003, 08:21 PM
I used hotsync to ms pro, no problem with mp3's....

be sure you have mp3's that are compatible... i.e. put the SAME file on the purple stick via hotsync...

remember, no VBR files..

Greg

p.s. only a very FEW readers support the pro, only certain sony ones, many sony laptops need a software patch, and the only 3rd party reader I could find that supported the pro is the new SanDisk one (look on their site)...

skou2
04-16-2003, 08:28 AM
Thanks Greg!

Yes, I have the problem with the exact same mp3's, i.e. they work on the purple stick (recognized by Audio Player) when transferred via MS export, but the *same* files do not work on MSpro (they transfer but are not recognized by Audio Player) when transferred by HotSync. I *do* have the MGMSPTCH.PRC patch installed, so I am able to browse the contents of the MSpro, but the Audio Player does not seem to like the files, almost as if Audio Player itself has an issue with MSpro. Someone had indicated potential issues with long file names when transferring to MSpro via HotSync, so I tried renaming the files to something short and HotSyncing them in again, but to no avail. It still will not work.

There's never a good exorcist around when you need one.

n2ifp
04-16-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by skou2
Thanks Greg!

Yes, I have the problem with the exact same mp3's, i.e. they work on the purple stick (recognized by Audio Player) when transferred via MS export, but the *same* files do not work on MSpro (they transfer but are not recognized by Audio Player) when transferred by HotSync. I *do* have the MGMSPTCH.PRC patch installed, so I am able to browse the contents of the MSpro, but the Audio Player does not seem to like the files, almost as if Audio Player itself has an issue with MSpro. Someone had indicated potential issues with long file names when transferring to MSpro via HotSync, so I tried renaming the files to something short and HotSyncing them in again, but to no avail. It still will not work.

There's never a good exorcist around when you need one.

The MS Pro driver is out now and should take care of your problem. The other patch you downloaded was for the Magic Gate sticks.

http://www.css.ap.sony.com/

skou2
04-16-2003, 07:32 PM
Thanks Larry!

I'll wait until the North American patch is out for the NZ90/U (right now it's applicable to NZ90/G or NZ90/H...).

greg elmassian
04-16-2003, 10:05 PM
There are several of us who have downloaded the patch and it works fine.

When the US patch comes out, I would think you could apply it also, but I suspect nothing will change..

Since you are not re-flashing the os, you could always hard reset your machine and apply the new patch if you were really worried...

It was about a week between the japanese patch and the AP patch, so maybe another week?

I couldn't wait, and i'm a happy camper..

greg

skou2
04-17-2003, 09:12 AM
Cool, thanks. I'll wait a *little* while longer (just cause I'm a scaredy cat), but if sony doesn't put out the US patch within a week, I'll go ahead with the Asia-Pacific version...