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Fern

03-02-2006, 04:36 PM

SoS

03-02-2006, 04:47 PM

Does anyone know of any rumours about new models Palm may release this March/April. I am looking for a new Palm but I would be very annoyed to buy one of the current models only to find one that would suit me better is released only a few weeks later.

its aleardy March. The rumour mill hasnt ground into action yet. Maybe there will will be no significant spring release....

CroCo

03-06-2006, 06:06 AM

its aleardy March. The rumour mill hasnt ground into action yet. Maybe there will will be no significant spring release....

...which would be quite boring.
There are two devices I would be interested in:

I would like to see an improved lifedrive with the memory management as everyone would like it to be (HD more like a persistent extension card...well could use exchangeable microharddrives or just put a big flash memory card in the package;-) ) and a TV-out line like on so many digital cameras....would be great to have a "palm-mediacentre" (can save the mobile, since palm IS mobile :-)))

And a treo with the TH55euro form factor and connectivity (BT and WiFi). But maybe we will get that with ALP at the end of next year...

salesrep

03-06-2006, 07:12 AM

...And a treo with the TH55euro form factor and connectivity (BT and WiFi). But maybe we will get that with ALP at the end of next year...

AMEN Brother. . .!!!

intellidryad

03-06-2006, 08:52 AM

...
And a treo with the TH55euro form factor and connectivity (BT and WiFi). But maybe we will get that with ALP at the end of next year...

Unless Palm somehow got large flash memory chips at the crazy price Apple got for their iPod nano, I guess a model like that would really likely be over 800 bucks :D

Jeff Kirvin

03-06-2006, 11:21 AM

The sooner you guys accept that ACCESS and ALP are never going to have anything to do with the US market, the happier you'll be. ALP is not the next Palm OS. Period.

SoS

03-06-2006, 11:27 AM

The sooner you guys accept that ACCESS and ALP are never going to have anything to do with the US market, the happier you'll be. ALP is not the next Palm OS. Period.

Ok Jeff, but what is going to be the next POS in your opinion??

Jeff Kirvin

03-06-2006, 11:30 AM

Next? Next?!?

There is no next. Palm will continue to refine Garnet for the duration of their license, until 2010. By 2010, UMPCs and cell phones will merge into something new, and "mobile" OSs like Palm OS and WM and Symbian will no longer be necessary.

Until then, I'm happy with Garnet. It's almost perfectly adapted for what it does. I don't need more on my Smartphone. Garnet can do everything I want.

smoothjordan

03-06-2006, 01:43 PM

Jeff Kirvin

03-06-2006, 02:20 PM

What if palm releases a new OS before that time, will you stick with garnet because it can do everything you want?
Actually, I'm planning to stick with the 650 even after the 700p (which also runs Garnet, but is EVDO) comes out. If it ain't broke...

But the point is that Palm isn't looking for a new OS. They don't give a toasted damn about ACCESS or ALP. Garnet does everything they need and they've already paid for it. They'll continue to refine it as needed, as they've done for the past few years, but for the most part Garnet is mature. It works.

I used a shark analogy a couple chats ago and it still fits. Sharks haven't changed appreciably in 300,000,000 years. Are sharks outdated or obsolete? No, they're perfectly adapted to what they do. As is Palm OS 5. There is no better smartphone OS on the market today.

zackepceo

03-06-2006, 02:33 PM

A TH55 form-factor Treo isn't a smartphone, it's a PDA with a cellular modem. There's a difference...

SonyStyle

03-06-2006, 04:35 PM

windows mobile will conquer all

AdamaDBrown

03-06-2006, 06:24 PM

Actually, I'm planning to stick with the 650 even after the 700p (which also runs Garnet, but is EVDO) comes out. If it ain't broke...

For the love of God, why? 128 MB and EVDO. Say it with me: 128 MB and EVDO. Or UMTS, probably, if you prefer.

But the point is that Palm isn't looking for a new OS. They don't give a toasted damn about ACCESS or ALP. Garnet does everything they need and they've already paid for it. They'll continue to refine it as needed, as they've done for the past few years, but for the most part Garnet is mature. It works.

If there's one truism in the computer industry, it's that progress doesn't stand still. At four years old, Garnet is already showing serious problems. Its marketshare has been shrinking for years, and if it weren't for the success of the Treo, it would have been even worse. Palm needs to be asking themselves whether there's going to be a market for Garnet outside Z22 style devices for more than another year. It's Windows 98. You may be able to extend it via hacking to a point, but it won't be as good as a fresher OS would be.

Jeff Kirvin

03-06-2006, 06:40 PM

For the love of God, why? 128 MB and EVDO. Say it with me: 128 MB and EVDO. Or UMTS, probably, if you prefer.

I have 9MB free out of 23MB on my Treo. Would life be sweeter if I had 44MB free (out of the 58MB of user-accessible storage on the 700p)? I don't need more memory.

As for EVDO, I doubt I'd notice this either. I have all the websites I use set up in SharkLinks on my Treo and they all go either to real mobile versions of the sites (I use m.gmail.com rather than any of the Palm OS mail clients) or filtered versions through www.google.com/gwt/n. I don't download podcasts or anything like that on my Treo (that's what iTunes is for), so would I even see the difference loading a 10kb page over EVDO versus loading that same 10kb over 1xRTT?

BTW, one of the reasons I have so much free space on my Treo is that SharkLinks allows me to have a ton of "web-based" applications. I use mobile Gmail instead of VersaMail, Chatter or Snapper. I use mobile.wunderground.com instead of 4Cast. I don't need Directory Assistant, I've got mobile.google.com/local. Showtimes? I've got mobile.fandango.com. The list goes on and on.

Like Palm OS itself, simple. Elegant. Easy.

But I digress.

If there's one truism in the computer industry, it's that progress doesn't stand still. At four years old, Garnet is already showing serious problems. Its marketshare has been shrinking for years, and if it weren't for the success of the Treo, it would have been even worse. Palm needs to be asking themselves whether there's going to be a market for Garnet outside Z22 style devices for more than another year. It's Windows 98. You may be able to extend it via hacking to a point, but it won't be as good as a fresher OS would be.
Four years old doesn't logically connect to serious problems. There's no causality there.

The marketshare is shrinking because the market as a whole (including smartphones) is booming. If you look at just the smartphone market, Palm OS is the fastest growing platform, almost outselling RIM last quarter. In terms of units sold, Palm OS has never been more popular. It all depends on how you want to spin the numbers, but Palm OS is doing just fine, thanks.

Windows 98 is a bad analogy. I see Palm OS more like VMS or Unix. These systems haven't changed appreciably in 30 years because they got it right the first time. They do what they do so well that there's no need to change them. Palm OS is so well adapted to smartphones and other wireless handhelds that so far no one has been able to provide a better experience. For all the crowing about EVDO (which will come to Palm OS in the 700p, as you said), most reviewers agree that the Treo 650 is still more usable than the 700w.

smoothjordan

03-06-2006, 09:39 PM

Treo 700p will have 64mb of ram, which isn't really a factor for 650 users if they have a SD card with the FAT 32 driver installed (as I do on mine) making SD access faster. EVDO is great, but it's a crazy battery drain, i had boht the a900 and a940, and were good except batteries would crap out much faster than I wanted to because of the evdo. With vision i don't have to worry about that. I only use verichat and versamail anyways so EVDO wouldn't help out that much anyways. I'm with kirvin on the fact that I'll be keeping the 650 for some time. It does everything I need it to (I want a bigger screen though) so why fix it if it isn't broken?

Jeff Kirvin

03-07-2006, 08:36 AM

OMG, Shep agreed with me... I'm in shock.

Oh, and I have the FAT32 driver in ROM as well. Makes a hella difference.

Rob_T

03-07-2006, 10:17 AM

If I had a Treo 650 today I would stick with it and not go for the 700p. If I had no Treo at all (like in my case) or a Treo 600 (like Alan Grassia), I'd wait for the 700p.

I realize you can make due with the Treo 650's memory, but I would like to have the extra space to throw apps. on the device and not have to be (as) careful with managing the memory. 64 mb will allow me the room to do this. I'm willing to take a hit on the battery with EVDO unless it's terrible...we'll have to wait and see on this one. And the gravy...the 700p allegedly has an "enhanced" screen and better camera AND larger DB Cache. Again, we'll have to wait and see.

So, if you have a 650, keep it. It's a great device and a known quantity. If you have nothing or you're ready to upgrade...might be wise to wait (if you can) for the 700p.

The 700W...I see no reason to go this route, if for nothing else, than the data rates are too high on Verizon.

I think the real conflict is going to be when Sprint's Treo 650 sells for like $125.00 on clearence and the 700p is in the $400.00 to $500.00 range. Then you've got a problem making the choice...

Jeff Kirvin

03-07-2006, 11:27 AM

smoothjordan

03-07-2006, 01:48 PM

I think the real conflict is going to be when Sprint's Treo 650 sells for like $125.00 on clearence and the 700p is in the $400.00 to $500.00 range. Then you've got a problem making the choice...

I honestly don't see the 650 dropping that low, especially looking at sprints history. Firstly, when the 600 was discontinued, it still remained fairly high in price, and right before it was removed from shelves actually cost 20 dollars more than the 650. You never know though, sprint has done some crazy things in the past, so it is really hard to know what to expect

LOL @ kirvin,
If you were right all the time I would agree with you more often :)

Rob_T

03-07-2006, 01:59 PM

zackepceo

03-07-2006, 02:56 PM

With some very agressive ZLauncher usage and application consolidation, I have 20.6MB free on my Treo's internal RAM. Why? I take all pictures and videos to the internal RAM and copy them to the card later. I don't have the FAT32 driver in ROM yet, either. I still haven't decided what I want in my custom ROM ;).

Re: the poster talking about EVDO battery usage:
EVDO doesn't inherently use any more power than 1xRTT CDMA. The Treo has an 1800MAh battery, while the 900 and 940 have much smaller capacity batteries. There is an aftermarket battery for the Treo that holds 2200MAh now, too. It does, of course, depend on what you do with the phone or Treo.

smoothjordan

03-07-2006, 03:12 PM

Re: the poster talking about EVDO battery usage:
EVDO doesn't inherently use any more power than 1xRTT CDMA. The Treo has an 1800MAh battery, while the 900 and 940 have much smaller capacity batteries. There is an aftermarket battery for the Treo that holds 2200MAh now, too. It does, of course, depend on what you do with the phone or Treo.

I noticed a huge difference when I was on a 1xRTT signal vs a EVDO signal in battery life, whereas i was getting much better battery life in 1xRTT. I'm not saying your wrong, but I would like to see some proof disregarding my "theory"...

zackepceo

03-07-2006, 04:46 PM

It could be dependant on the device, with the Samsungs implementing EVDO with a two-chip solution or something else.

SoS

03-07-2006, 05:09 PM

Actually, I'm writing an article for WOYP/1SRC/TC right now about how thanks to SharkLinks and web-based applications, I don't have to be careful managing my memory. I have 88 applications in my launcher and more than 50% of my 23MB free. And that's without using "run from card" hacks like PowerRun or ZLauncher.

c'mon jeff, 'web-based applications'....wunderground instead of 4cast...?? you mean you use a bunch of websites to give you similar (but some would argue inferior) functionality!! Great for connected devices (and that is, after all the topic)...
;)

AdamaDBrown

03-07-2006, 08:40 PM

I have 9MB free out of 23MB on my Treo. Would life be sweeter if I had 44MB free (out of the 58MB of user-accessible storage on the 700p)? I don't need more memory.

Rule number one of handheld computing forums: You don't talk about handhel--oh wait. That's the other thing. Rule number one here is there's no such thing as too much memory. :p

As for EVDO, I doubt I'd notice this either.

(Shrug) Suit yourself, but do remember that EVDO not only increases bandwidth, it also decreases latency by as much as 30%. So you're still talking about waiting less time for your pages to load. And I'd think that your usage is rather different than most people's. Most people would prefer to have the fastest internet connection available to them, if for no other reason than the idea that maybe they'll need it. Don't you ever send or receive pictures by email?

Four years old doesn't logically connect to serious problems. There's no causality there.

There is when you consider the fact that technology keeps advancing. Four years ago there was no EVDO, no UMTS, no VoIP, no SDIO WiFi, no Bluetooth headphones, very little streaming video, and the list goes on. Some of those things have been able to be hacked in, others are still MIA on the Palm platform because the OS just is unable to support it.

The marketshare is shrinking because the market as a whole (including smartphones) is booming.

Yes, the market is booming. I'm pleased to find that somebody agrees with me on that point. But at the same time Palm sales have been declining. Unless you think that Palm went from 90% marketshare to 35% because the market tripled in size.

If you look at just the smartphone market, Palm OS is the fastest growing platform, almost outselling RIM last quarter.

Palm came within 20% of topping, for one quarter, a company that was embroiled in a billion dollar lawsuit that threatened to shut them down permanently. Yes, they're doing well, but they're not conquering the world just yet.

In terms of units sold, Palm OS has never been more popular.

Not quite. They are doing better than they have in years, but even factoring in the Treos, Palm OS sells far fewer units now than it once did, because of the increased competition from other manufacturers.

Windows 98 is a bad analogy. I see Palm OS more like VMS or Unix. These systems haven't changed appreciably in 30 years because they got it right the first time. They do what they do so well that there's no need to change them.

See it however you like. But the reality is that even those systems have changed significantly. They've been pulled apart and rebuilt thousands of times since they were first created for the simple reason that you just can't keep running the same OS forever. It's like trying to do modern spreadsheets on a TRS-80. You just can't. Sooner or later, an OS that isn't updated will drop dead.

AdamaDBrown

03-07-2006, 08:41 PM

Treo 700p will have 64mb of ram, which isn't really a factor for 650 users if they have a SD card with the FAT 32 driver installed (as I do on mine) making SD access faster.

Well, to be technical it will have 128 MB minus 66 MB used up by the OS, if we're to believe the reports.

EVDO is great, but it's a crazy battery drain,

Not really. Battery life with EVDO shouldn't be any different than with 1xRTT. If your phone's battery was dying too fast, I'd suggest that it's just not a very long-lived phone. You may want to consider checking out somewhere like PhoneScoop.com to compare different models and their rated talk time. The alternative is that there's a bug in the phone that causes it to burn through the battery faster when connected to an EVDO tower. Either way though, it's not the EVDO itself.

smoothjordan

03-07-2006, 08:42 PM

Well, to be technical it will have 128 MB minus 66 MB used up by the OS, if we're to believe the reports.

Not really. Battery life with EVDO shouldn't be any different than with 1xRTT. If your phone's battery was dying too fast, I'd suggest that it's just not a very long-lived phone. You may want to consider checking out somewhere like PhoneScoop.com to compare different models and their rated talk time. The alternative is that there's a bug in the phone that causes it to burn through the battery faster when connected to an EVDO tower. Either way though, it's not the EVDO itself.
DId you not read the post, it lasted longer with 1xRTT!!!! And it will have 64mb, mark my words

Jeff Kirvin

03-07-2006, 09:14 PM

Rule number one of handheld computing forums: You don't talk about handhel--oh wait. That's the other thing. Rule number one here is there's no such thing as too much memory. :p
Okay, I gotta give you points for that just for the funny Fight Club reference.

There is when you consider the fact that technology keeps advancing. Four years ago there was no EVDO, no UMTS, no VoIP, no SDIO WiFi, no Bluetooth headphones, very little streaming video, and the list goes on. Some of those things have been able to be hacked in, others are still MIA on the Palm platform because the OS just is unable to support it.
What?

EVDO: in the Treo 700p.

UMTS: no one has tried it yet, but shouldn't be harder than EVDO.

VoIP: MantraGroup has done it. http://www.mobivoip.net/index.php

SDIO WiFi: Palm refuses to do it (the carriers really don't want WiFi-enabled Treos), but the Zodiac could do this just fine. So could the Zire 71. So clearly, Palm OS can handle it.

Bluetooth Headphones: Softick has done it. http://www.softick.com/bluetooth-audio/

Streaming Video: MobiTV, man.

Everything you mention can be done on Palm OS. Next!

Yes, the market is booming. I'm pleased to find that somebody agrees with me on that point. But at the same time Palm sales have been declining. Unless you think that Palm went from 90% marketshare to 35% because the market tripled in size.
No, I think those numbers are disingenuous. The 90% marketshare was just PDAs when smartphones didn't exist. The 35% marketshare is also just PDAs and no smartphones, today. Add Treos into that number, and Palm OS is over 50%. That's a majority.

Jeff Kirvin

03-07-2006, 09:49 PM

c'mon jeff, 'web-based applications'....wunderground instead of 4cast...?? you mean you use a bunch of websites to give you similar (but some would argue inferior) functionality!! Great for connected devices (and that is, after all the topic)...
;)
I don't know about inferior. Wunderground tells me everything 4Cast does. And the key is SharkLink's ability to treat those websites just as though they were applications, to categorize them and map them to hard buttons just like Palm OS apps.

CroCo

03-08-2006, 02:38 AM

A TH55 form-factor Treo isn't a smartphone, it's a PDA with a cellular modem. There's a difference...

Well, I don´t see it. If it is a phone, it´s a phone. If it has the form factor of a TH55, its a phone in the form factor of a TH55, but still a phone. But it doesn´t matter what it is called, that is the only form factor that I will be getting a "smart"phone in- since I use the PDA functionality more than my mobile phone.

And ALP not coming to palm devices: well I´ll then consider moving to samsung or whoever. I haven´t had a palm device in years, so what does it matter to me? Sony was fine, palm is ok...but with more internet browsing on my TH55 I now see a personal need for either a new browser (tabbed, multi threadded or similar functionality) or a general multitasking OS (while I actually would prefer the development of a new web browser that supports tabbed browsing (2 tabs woud be enough) or page loading in the background -as audioplayer can go on while not beeing the app displayed.)

As I think ALP might hold these options for me, I am ready to move forward. If TH55 breaks, before that I guess I´ll go with the TX -I just love the form factor :-)))))))))

btaryag

03-09-2006, 09:08 AM

When I got the TX I thought I would never need 101 mb but now I only have 15 mb free.
I can't wait for the rumors to start swirling - what the next Palm will be. I love rumors.

alex_herrero

03-11-2006, 08:22 PM

Well, actually, I always keep my TX with at least 20Mb free, but I have many large dictionary/encyclopedias databases in RAM, so when I need, I put them in my SD and that's it.

By the way, it's true: no one will ever be satisfied with memory! I have near 30Gb of music, 40Gb of documents/apps just for PC, and if we count GNU/Linux and some Mac stuff, I don't even know how that sum formula would go... :eek: