Ipod Video 30 GB OR iAUDIO X5L

[pulento9]

hello everybody,,,

I'm new to the forum and I'm about to buy one of these two mp3 players. My question is... Which of these two has better video quality, I like the fact that I can put video to watch, you know like my music videos and stuff, even my concerts that I have on divx format. I understand that I have to convert but if I get one of the two for specially for video which one would it be? I heard none of them but I really like just these two. Thanks guys

[daver]

first and foremost, welcome to 1src!

now, my question to you is this: are you an audiophile? by audiophile, i mean you won't settle for mediocre to average sound quality. because if you want really natural sounding playback (through equilizers and other settings of course, and a really nice pair of Sennheiser stereo headphones of course), i found my X5 did much better than my friend's iPod Mini (i'm pretty sure hte Mini sounds identical to the iPod /Video/Nano). i had another friend who owned an iPod for a little while, but returned it because he thought his PPC had better quality sound - i wouldn't know tho' because it's all just talk.

but if you only really care about video, then the iPod is definitely better for you. it's got a bigger and better screen; but much shorter battery life. i heard that it only lasts abour 2 hours with video playback (and obviously longer if audio playback - maybe 10 hours?). or if you want to keep the Cowon name, you could go with the A2, which is a full PMP.

also, if you go with an iPod, i HIGHLY recommend getting a case or something. otherwise you might end up griping about the excessive scratches, etc.

and if you're looking at getting accessories for either one, don't worry, both have stuff equally insanely overpriced (assuming you buy directly from the producer). well, i guess for the same price for a remote, you do get a better deal with Cowon's remote because it has a backlit LCD screen and stuff. but i think that's the only better "deal" (i wouldn't really call it a deal, it's more of a scam, but anyways...) you'd get for accessorizing your DAP.

[JackAxe]

PC Mag gave the iAudioX5 (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1833882,00.aspa) a score of 3.5, where as they gave the iPod Video (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1875074,00.asp) a 5 out of 5 and the PC Editors' Choice award.

The video iPod has a 320x240 screen and uses H.264, which is by far the "best" video format on the market. It plays back a 30 FPS. The mentioned X5 has a cell-phone-sized 160x128 screen which is not good enough for video. It also uses MPeg4, which can't hold a candle to H.264 and it can only play back at a mediocre 15 FPS.

Go with the iPod, epecially for video. It's way better for video and its sound quality is top notch. All other players suffer from poor interface designs and lack the overall content support, which is so unbundently available for the iPod.

<]=)

[daver]

PC Mag has always been biased against Cowon products for some reason. on their forum, i've read that PC Mag has been giving bad reviews for Cowon DAPs ever since they started coming out. So that 3.5 should be taken with a pinch of salt. the X5 ISN'T a dedicated video player. it's a DAP with video capabilities, not a video player with MP3 capabilities. hence the cheaper price (at least in Vancouver, dunno bout the rest of hte world)

i still think that the iPod Video should have a higher resolution if it's going to be a dedicated video playback machine. i mean, if you're going to charge that much, you might as well throw in a higer-res screen. plus, you'll get so many more sales.

we should probably add that the iPod is really light weight (something i personally hate) - somewhere around 6 ounces i think - , while the X5 has a nice heft to it like a (non high-end) PDA. actually the X5 really feels like holding a deck of cards in your hand, and maybe with a few grams of extra weight in the case of the X5L. so if you don't want to be able to feel the size/weight of the DAP in your pocket, the iPod would probably be better.

BTW, JackAxe, the X5 can handle H264. you just need to NOT use the crappy bundled converter program. i use V.Dub and got H264 workin' fine on my X5 (but obviously in an AVI container). but it really makes no difference in quality since the screen is smaller, LOL.

[JackAxe]

PC Mag biased, naaaa. :p I'm primary a Mac guy, so I'v neveer detected any bias from them. :)

Here's a full/thorough review from the Arstechnia peeps;
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/video-ipod.ars

The Video Ipod is still more music than anything. That is still Apple's primary focus with it, since no portable video player has been successful. By no means is this a dedicated player, but it can do the job with great results and since Apple has a clue about user interaction, they made it as easy as possible to get content onto it.

320x240 is where it should be though, since that's basically what your're getting standard broadcast TV. And since the screen is so small, video looks excellent on it. Even watching videos formated for it on my main comp look great. The VIPod does support an external slightly better rez, but it's nothing to write home about (480x480 MPEG-4.)

I'm assuming if the rumor mills are true, then the newer version would have a higher rez screen to accomadate wide screen content better. But that of course means a a higher price. I just hope that if these rumors do pan out, this new version once again includes FireWire. :(

My iPod is only 160x160 monochrome, so it can't even handle video. So your X5 has mine beat. :p

I probably come off as an iPod zelout, but it's definitely wasn't my first player of choice. I made some bad choices first, before finally moving to one. :o

<]=)

[daver]

so there you have it pulento9. the iPod Video is a much better choice if you are really concerned about video. 2 people and 2 votes for the VIpod.

but honestly, i would probably ditch out more money for something better like an Archos or something, just for a bigger screen.

The Video Ipod is still more music than anything.
of course, but they make the Video component sound so much more than it really is. hence my statement.

The VIPod does support an external slightly better rez, but it's nothing to write home about (480x480 MPEG-4.)
liar, you ain't seen nothing yet. at least not until you've tried 160x120 res. that's worth writing home about: you can say you managed to watch a whole movie (let's say 2 hours) without going blind!

I probably come off as an iPod zelout, but it's definitely wasn't my first player of choice. I made some bad choices first, before finally moving to one.only slightly :D

[Volchitsa]

Oh no no no no no!
Ahhh! Not an iPod. If you want an iPod's screen size, then you should, without a doubt go with Creative Zen's Vision:M. The video quality is better than an iPod's. It costs about the same. Also it is packed with useful features (for free ;)) and comes in different colors. It is a truly amazing DAP. Oh, and plus, all that scratchability is not an issue.

Now, if you want a player purely for video and if you don't care about size, then there are a couple of other options for you out there.

Just be careful, don't rush. Do your homework, trust me, it'll pay off.

If you have questions, I'll be happy to help ya ;).

[JackAxe]

LOL. :D Just give in to the iPod. All of these other guys had their chance, even before Apple, but they all failed.

Creative chose the cheap route at first and had lots of reliability issues. They even shipped a Zen that had a virus pre-installed by accident. I was a long time Creative fan, since buying my Sound Blaster Pro deluxe back in 90 or 91. But after my last Sound Blaster Live Platinum, which turned my music experience into a constant banner advertisement and vomited tons of worthless drivers all over my PC, and my old GForce 2 Ultra's poor driver support, I scratched them off my list. But I haven't given up on them. The only thing that was worse than their software, was Sony's Sonic*Vomit*Stage.

The Vision is definitely a nice device, but as like all of these gadgets, they fall short on the software front and rely on 3rd party guys to fill in all of the missing holes, like video conversion.

Cnet give is a 8.
http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_Zen_Vision_30GB_Black/4505-6499_7-31415781.html?tag=tab

It does support a higher-rez. But at 320x240, the video iPod is using the best encoder on the market; H.264. Even WMV9 can't compare and it was supposed to rival it. Tis why they're using H.264 for HD content. :p

Anyways, they also gave the Video iPod an 8, but they also gave it Editors choice; (Beause it's the best iPod, so music first.) :)
http://reviews.cnet.com/Apple_iPod_5G_30GB_video/4505-6490_7-31556111.html

The video iPod has content and ease of use. If you want a music video, you'll find it without a problem already formated for the iPod. The other guys have some nifty devices that are lacking in about as many areas as they have extra features.

When my bum itches... It gets lots of scratches. :o

<]=)

[JackAxe]

so there you have it pulento9. the iPod Video is a much better choice if you are really concerned about video. 2 people and 2 votes for the VIpod.

but honestly, i would probably ditch out more money for something better like an Archos or something, just for a bigger screen.


of course, but they make the Video component sound so much more than it really is. hence my statement.


liar, you ain't seen nothing yet. at least not until you've tried 160x120 res. that's worth writing home about: you can say you managed to watch a whole movie (let's say 2 hours) without going blind!

only slightly :D

Nope, I've never tortured myself like that. :) Which cell phone were you wathcing a video on? :D

[kiteandcamera]

I am a recent convert to the COWON X5L, in part to a prior thread dominated by daver and Volchitsa. The unit is beautiful and accels as a music player/recorder. Video is certainly a weak point for this unit. If your primary focus is on video, the iPod is a better choice.

Another alternative in the COWON family is the A2. Volchitsa is a proud owner of this unit and claims it does a super job with video on its 480x272 screen and the company claims up to 10 hours of video playback time. This is a link to a comparison chart between the A2, the Archos AV500 and the Creative Zen Vision. http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/cowon/a2/comparison.html

Hope this helps.

[Volchitsa]

LOL. :D Just give in to the iPod. All of these other guys had their chance, even before Apple, but they all failed.

Creative chose the cheap route at first and had lots of reliability issues. They even shipped a Zen that had a virus pre-installed by accident. I was a long time Creative fan, since buying my Sound Blaster Pro deluxe back in 90 or 91. But after my last Sound Blaster Live Platinum, which turned my music experience into a constant banner advertisement and vomited tons of worthless drivers all over my PC, and my old GForce 2 Ultra's poor driver support, I scratched them off my list. But I haven't given up on them. The only thing that was worse than their software, was Sony's Sonic*Vomit*Stage.

The Vision is definitely a nice device, but as like all of these gadgets, they fall short on the software front and rely on 3rd party guys to fill in all of the missing holes, like video conversion.

Cnet give is a 8.
http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_Zen_Vision_30GB_Black/4505-6499_7-31415781.html?tag=tab

It does support a higher-rez. But at 320x240, the video iPod is using the best encoder on the market; H.264. Even WMV9 can't compare and it was supposed to rival it. Tis why they're using H.264 for HD content. :p

Anyways, they also gave the Video iPod an 8, but they also gave it Editors choice; (Beause it's the best iPod, so music first.) :)
http://reviews.cnet.com/Apple_iPod_5G_30GB_video/4505-6490_7-31556111.html

The video iPod has content and ease of use. If you want a music video, you'll find it without a problem already formated for the iPod. The other guys have some nifty devices that are lacking in about as many areas as they have extra features.

When my bum itches... It gets lots of scratches. :o

<]=)

Aw, come on! What is this? "Just give in"? Since when do you "just give in" in a several hundered dollar purchase? What you do is research, research some more, ask others, see what you need, see what you like, only then buy. Oh yeah, almost forgot. You also need to research.

They did indeed have a chance. And at popularity they indeed failed. Now, though they have long caught up.

A few of creative's models did have problems, that's true. However, many got fixed (with new firmware and suh).

Yeah, okay. Maybe iTunes is a pretty good software. But how important is software for a music player? In this case, not very. First of all, you can get iTunes if you like them that much without owning an iPod. Then, for music organization/transfer many prefer drag-and-drop or a different software anyway.
My point is that software should not be a major point when deciding on a player.

"It does support a higher-rez. But at 320x240, the video iPod is using the best encoder on the market; H.264. Even WMV9 can't compare and it was supposed to rival it. Tis why they're using H.264 for HD content. :p"

Meh? The V:M's screen quality is better. Period. Both by specs and by simple naked eye observation/comparison.

"The video iPod has content and ease of use. If you want a music video, you'll find it without a problem already formated for the iPod. The other guys have some nifty devices that are lacking in about as many areas as they have extra features."

Again. I think quality is much more important than software. I'm pretty sure you can find a music video formatted for almost any other player too. Most of the players read all kind of encoding, without the need for any conversion. And if not, a simple converter will do.

"When my bum itches... It gets lots of scratches. :o"

Gotta get that iSkin!

[Volchitsa]

I am a recent convert to the COWON X5L, in part to a prior thread dominated by daver and Volchitsa. The unit is beautiful and accels as a music player/recorder. Video is certainly a weak point for this unit. If your primary focus is on video, the iPod is a better choice.

Another alternative in the COWON family is the A2. Volchitsa is a proud owner of this unit and claims it does a super job with video on its 480x272 screen and the company claims up to 10 hours of video playback time. This is a link to a comparison chart between the A2, the Archos AV500 and the Creative Zen Vision. http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/cowon/a2/comparison.html

Hope this helps.

Yeah, I think it's slightly noticeable I'm proud of my A2. :D

But remember. The x5 and the iPod are NOT your only choices! The x5, the iPod, the A2, the archos are just a small percentage. There are so many great players out there. It just depends on what you are looking for and what's more important to you. So you should tell us.

Which leaves me slightly concerned. Are you planning to read this anytime soon? ;)

[daver]

pulento, you still there? guys, i think we're going on with the who Apple vs. the world thing again. let's not scare off people so fast!


<off-topic>
The only thing that was worse than their software, was Sony's Sonic*Vomit*Stage.there's nothing worse than Sonic Stage. i NEVER use Real Player. Ever. But when I gave up completely on Sonic Stage for my old Sony NetMD player, I had to install Realplayer just for its MD plug-in to transfer music from my PC. i've finally uninstalled RP.


the problem with iPods is that they're way too expensive for how little they can do compared to other devices. practically 90% of iPod owners bought the device for the Apple name. the other 10% are gadget freaks and in-the-know folks, like yourself JackAxe. i mean, for the shorter battery-life, lack of radio, voice recording and line-in (and in some cases a full metal body), it really can't compete with the other devices out in the market. however, Apple excelled with their firmware/OS (i still can't quite figure out if you can call the firmware an OS on a DAP) and ergonomic design, and also the proprietary click/scroll wheel. IMO, it's THAT that makes the iPod so successful. not the features (well, the lightweightness is debateable). also, Apple's lack of originallity with their names really turns me off. everything has an "i" in front of it. granted, it's their signature, but it's getting old enough to make me vomit everytime i hear that their newest product has an "i" in it. and it makes me even more sick that other companies copy it. i actually hate the name "iAudio" because of the "i", but i can't complain at all about what i'm getting from it. so far, it's already exceeded my expectations by miles, and i still haven't even tried the video, voice recording, or line-in.

and i think it's pathetic that Apple is so successful, but they won't come out with a new interface design. i mean look at the whole iPod family. they're all identical to the other, only smaller and smaller. the only change is the Shuffle, but it's essentiall the first generation iPod without the LCD screen. if Apple came out with different designs with each iPod, then i'd have more respect for them. but until that day comes (which better be soon for their sake), i'm just going to keep thinking that the folks at Apple are too afraid to make any changes and are going to milk out the iPod design until it's good and dead. same goes for the names of the devices. each one has "iPod" strung to it. why can't they just take risks and call it the "Nano" instead of the 'iPod Nano"? again, i think they're too afraid that if they drop the "iPod" name, they'll lose sales. most iPodders are just crazy for the name anyways (at least in my city, dunno about elsewhere).

and no, i don't hate Apple products. hell, i even considered getting an iPod the first time around, before thinking about iRiver, and then getting sucked in by Volchitsa :p. and i don't throw bricks through Steve Job's home windows. i just hate the people at Apple who have no imagination.

[JackAxe]

I'm just going to ramble as usual. :o

I do my research and still do it today and guess what, it always points to the iPod when it comes to the best digital-audio player. :)

I read all of these points and there are a few I agree on, and I know I'm probably going to forget some while I'm rambling, but choice is a matter of perspective. The iPod is definitely not for everyone, hence it sales are terrible in Korea, where they tend to like all-in-one gadgets. I also like them, but until someone goes for broke and decides to make the whole package work well, wihout skimping, then we'll continue to see lots of mediocre products. But I can't see anybody doing that, since if it works too well, then why would anyone need to upgrade? Which brings me to my iPod, which is over 3.5 years old now(I got it used, so it's older.) Besides the battery needing a replacement, just like my Cliés of about the same age, which I've rambled about, it works extremely well. I use it every day and I couldn't be happier. I don't need a TUNER. :D I have iTunes and I can download Podcasts when on the go, or just choose from any of the billions of internet-radio channels that are available through iTunes when at my computer.

I personlly like some of the other players appearance better, but looks is not why I'll stick with the iPod. Their designs are not bad though and what I've learned from being an artist for more than a decade, most peeps like simple and the iPod truly fits that build.

And just to clear things up; I wasn't going to buy an iPod, my friend filled up his 15 Gig 3G and wanted to move to a 40 Gig, so I worked out a trade for some of my services. But I'm glad it worked out, because it's a great unit and has never caused me frustration like some of my past devices.

Every other vendor out there tried to undercut Apple and in the process released crap players with really poor user-interfaces. Now days they're bumping up the quality, but, still skimping on the areas that matter. It was their poor choices that helped make the iPod a huge success. None of these other players can deliver the whole package. Until they can offer an iTunes+iPod solution, they will all "fail." And this has become apparent to them, since they're banding together to try and create a commonality that can rival what Apple has created.

Saying or hinting that the iPod isn't up to quality is complete bogus. That's the farthest thing from the truth. You get exactly what you pay for, hence other players that can truly match the quality of an iPod cost just as much. The price difference between a 160x128 screen vs a 320x240 screen BTW, is more than a enough to cover all of these extras, like a tuner, which now days costs about 2 cents. Look at the Creative Vision, the thing is $599 and its screen is only viewable from straight on and reviewers still recomend the iPod, which does video as a secondary function over it.

Quality compenents do come at a premium. A 1.8" HD cost way more at the time. 4 Gig flash costs more than a 6 Gig micro-drive. Firewire, which used to be a feature, :( comes at a premium. iPods still use electro-static wheels, that costs more. I'm just ramblng, but if you look at hte tech of these thing, the players that cost way less than an iPod and promise more are all quite cheap when it comes to quality and you get what you pay for. Blah blah blah.

Once again; STOP QUIBBLING ABOUT THE SCRATCHES. :p :p :p Every portable device scratches, if you say other wise, then you must have sprayed your device with that stuff they used on KITT in Knight Rider. ;)

Apple is second to none when it comes to user interface design. Their products offer the most complete software and hardware integration. Only Microsoft has the ability to make a player than can match an iPod, but until they release a Microsoft branded PC, like the X360, then release a Microsft branded digital-audio player, along with software that can match iTunes ease of use and feature sets, it's not going to happen.

I personally by Apple for the name, because their products are absolutely wonderful. Ahhhh, the iPod like all of my Apple hardware, integrates soooo nicely. :o

I find this whole iPod vs the rest kind of ironic, since I generaly support the udnerdog, and have been a long time Apple user. Mainstream products generally don't appeal to me. Apple just happened to make it big, which was a complete suprise to the industry and even me. I had my money on Sony, which I've been buying way way way longer than Apple products.

i<]=) <-------Check out my signiture. :D

[JackAxe]

Another thing about these do-everything devices, that are packed full of features, like the PDAs we love and buy... Why is it that most of you peeps have owned about 50 of them? *slight exaggeration.* :D :p Certainly they're better than a simple player like the iPod for music. :p

Could it be that they never live up to the hype, nor can they deliver as promised. ;) *Just call me redundent boy.*

<]=)

[daver]

I do my research and still do it today and guess what, it always points to the iPod when it comes to the best digital-audio player. :)
i'm not disagreeing with you hear (i know, really bad play on words), but the iPod treble crackles and gets far too sharp when it's set higher (likewise for the bass), and the two extreme frequency ranges don't even show up on my dad's Bose Triports. but i blame the screw up in frequency on the MP3 compression (i use FLAC and WAV more than MP3). I'm an audiophile, so i love quality music (believe it or not, I have LPs). but if i can't get increase the bass AND treble without having one clearly cover up the other (99.99999% it's bass distorting the treble to no end), then i'd rather not listen to the music at all. try listening to a bass guitar on a really loud hammer, and during that same time having the drummer going crazy on the cymbols. with just an equilizer, 400% of the time, i can't hear the cymbols, just the heavy beat of the bass from the bass guitar. i noticed that the cymbols barely come through, if ever at all. but i found with the BBE (whatever the hell that is) on my Cowon, setting that to mid-range (3-5 out of 10), and setting the whatchamacallit Bass setting also to mid-range also, i can clearly distinguish the bass guitar and cymbols without any distortion. of course, nothing brings true sound quality than a good stereo receiver system.

as for radio, i want to listen to the radio, NOW, instead of 2 hours later after downloading it off the internet.
and remember that most people are very Apple biased just to fall in stride with the rest of hte market. although what they're saying is true, they'll put in a little bit more bias than is needed.

Until they can offer an iTunes+iPod solutionnot everybody wants a full MP3 player and software bundle. i'm one of those people. i don't want my music tagged by software before transfering them directly to my player. i just want my music on my player. hell, i don't even have ID3 tags for my music. i never cared, or bother to do anything with ID3. i just want to be able to plug in the USB, copy music over (through Windows Explorer for example), unplug the USB, and start listening to music. however, iTunes is very good for people who are nearly computer illiterate. i have many friends who can barely check their e-mail, and iTunes gives them the confidence to transfer music from PC to iPod. it's great software, but i just don't care for it.

nor can they deliver as promised
dude, wrong company. that's Microsoft.

Apple is second to none when it comes to user interface design. wrong again. i think that would be first to none :p

then release a Microsft branded digital-audio playercan you IMAGINE what would turn up? "WinPod has performed an illegal operation and must be shut down". or maybe they're re-invent the Blue Screen of Death, and make it into a newer Red Screen of Death or something. that'll definitely a turning point of the century! LOL

[Volchitsa]

Dear redundant boy,

You keep saying iPod has the best quality, quality for the price. However, most other players have already caught up (am I being redundant? :-P). Iaudio's quality is better than the iPod, just for example.

Also, the UI. The iPod's UI is pretty easy to use. But so is most of the other players'. As I said, I have yet to read the manual to find out how something works for a player. The UIs I've seen/used/read about are all pretty easy to use and self intuitive. I don't like how iPod's GUI looks either. It's boring. No wallpaper, no color. Boring. And iTunes. People do have problems with it. And compared to drag-and-drop it's still harder to use.
And in my opinion, software does not make a player.

And the scratchability. Of course shiny surfaces are going to scratch. BUT some are more than others. And iPod's surface is the absolute winner here. I have yet to get a scratch on my a2 and I don't even use the case that often. Anyone who uses their new iPod for about 2 weeks (no case) has scratches all over it. I'm surprised you're even arguing about that, it's kinda proven.

Here, I dug up a comparison chart by one of my fellow dapreview members.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/randomlylost/Chart.jpg

Microsoft. I'm laughing my head off bacause you're discussing this.
Check this (http://www.dapreview.net/comment.php?comment.news.2911) out! ;)

[SonyStyle]

i have an ipod video and it has extremely smooth video playback. i chose the ipod because i like the design and the clickwheel.

[Volchitsa]

mmmyeah. :rolleyes:

[JackAxe]

The Click-Wheel is absolutely great. Just another important feature no other player has matched. I admire my wives Mini, becasue of it. My 3G has the old wheel design, which is wonderfull also, but the CW was a good improvement.

Volchitsa,

Nice iPod "clone." :) Its battery is even closed in just like an iPod. It even has a color GUI, "just" like the iPod.

Check out the newer slide control. It's an improvement over past garbage, but is still a step down from even Apple's old wheel control.

Cnet gave it an 8, just like the other vision and iPod. But it didn't recieve the "Editors Choice" award. I wonder why? Clearly it must be better than the iPod, because of all of these trivial features... But nope, they gave the award to the iPod. ;)

That MS Pod is great. One guy even asks if it is a joke. :D

I can't believe you're even comparing a Zen to an iPod. That's like comparing Foldgers Coffee to someone like Peets (http://www.peets.com/default.asp?promo=cja&AID=1200274&PID=632459&SID=peets+coffee) . :o

Creative has to take some major steps to try and fix their "tainted" image. It's their own fault that most peeps view their players as failure-prone and of poor quality, and ended up switching to the iPod after buying one.

Maybe wallpaper is important to you, but "proven" quality and true software to hardware integration is by far more important for me and so many-many-many-many-many others.

iTunes+iPod. It's been a huge success for Apple and Creative does "not" have an iTunes, and as of right now, they still don't have a proven-quality-player. If iTunes sucked like VOMIT-Stage, or Creative's horrid offerings, Apple's iPod would not have been successful. Good, easy-to-use software for managing music, is "very" important. Apple spends billions on R&D and has the best understandings of GUI's. No wonder iTunes has done so well, even on the PC.

Peeps have had problems with iTunes, but that's what you can expect with well over 300,000,000 iPods sold. But overall it has a proven track record. Now days, I see it being used on my client's and their employee's PCs and some of them don't have iPods. :) It was a music app first and still is a great one.

iTune's whole interface is Drag and Drop. Importing and managing music couldn't be easier. Oh, and it has that store thing, podcasting, and internet radio thing, which lots of peeps seem to like. But for me, I still buy CD. iTunes handle those just as elegantly.

I found this intersting, since you think softwares not important for a player. My cousing does not have an MP3 player and didn't care to buy one, but now that his church is podcasting, he's buying an iPod. He just installed iTunes the other day. :)

<]=)

[JackAxe]

Daver,

I'm all for audio quality also. I use only Apple Lossless, since it is exactly like the CD, but if I wanted to, I can copy a CD's AIF format directly onto an iPod without compression or conversion. AIF is Apple's native audio format.

I have no doubt that the chip in your X5 is better than my old 3G, which when new was near the top when it comes to quality, but Apple has not set still and has updated the audio chip in each generation. I wouldn't be surprised if your X5 didn't have the same audio chip as a 5G.

Bose Triports. :eek: *no comment* :o

Radio now days is filled with more talking than music. I think this is probably why internet-radio is so popular now. Podcasting is great, since you can listen to a broadcast on your own time. The only time I listen to a radio, is when driving, and I'm rarely in a situaltion I don't have access to it. It's a good feature to have though and I'm glad to see Apple includes it in their remote now, but for me, it has never been a selling point. But for others I know it's important.

I was using iTunes for a long time, before it was considerd a store, so the iPod was a nice addition. I like the ability to manage my playlists and its importing options are full featured.

Apple is second to none when it comes to UIs. :p Look at their only competion for OSs; Microsoft. :D OS X is already 7 years ahead of Vista. Using my PCs UI with XP sp2, is not an nice experience. To be frank, compared to OS X UI, Windows UI is no better than Sonic Stage. This is why I consider them to be the top peep in UI design. ;)

<]=)

[daver]

ok, so much to quote, but so little time to type this up in, so no quotes here. sorry, but you'll have to do some extra reading this time:

i didn't know that they changed the clickwheel on the iPods for the different generations. i only noticed the differences in looks (well duh...), but taht's about it.

the MS MicroPod was a really nice touch. i laughed so hard that i actually cried at teh Ctrl Alt Del buttons on it. and of course the image of Billy G.

as for the Drag and Drop functionality, i know that iTunes is pretty much based entirely on that (when transfering music from PC to iPod). at least i THINK that's how my friend copies music from her laptop (Apple laptop too, so JackAxe, eat yer heart out! LOL) to her iPod. i don't know if there's any steps in between, but it seems that it's drag and drop. i have read that iTunes is the only way to get music on to your ipod, but i'm not going to agree/disagree since i don't have anything solid since i've never used itunes before.

<notice how i'm not using caps anymore?> also, i don't understand why people just can't go visit the webpage, download the podcast, and copy it to their mp3 player the old fashion, manual way. i listen to podcasts all the time, but i don't need any program do download it for me. i do it myself. it's like the saying 'if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself'. i've always stuck to that saying, cuz it's pretty much right on the mony.

apple lossless, <thumbs up> very good stuff. the only problem i have with that darn format is getting it to play on my computer. for some reason, i just can't get it to play (i get files from my friend who has it in the lossless format). that's why i stick to FLAC, because it's pretty much compatible on any computer.

the x5 uses the BBE sound processor something something something <-- replace the 'something's with the rest of the actual audio processor name. i just know that it's completely different from what apple has in their ipods. don't get me wrong, apple ipods have pretty darn good quality. but i want good bass and treble response without distortion or over-compensation of bass/treble by increasing the frequency of extra ranges (for example, many drivers will over-compensate for weak bass by increasing the 'thump' in things like word pronunciations, hammers on guitars, and sometimes the snare drums).

the triports are actually hand-me-downs from a really spoilled friend of mine. we went through elementary school, high school, and are currently roughing through the bushes, aka university, together. dad's a doctor, mom's a retired nurse, and he's just spoilled. he busted the plastic band thingy right above the left ear speaker, so his parents bought him Sennheisers. my friend gave me his old triports, i whipped out my trusty duct tape, and voila, a pair of almost new bose headphones. i never meant to brag about them, if that's how i came out. i only wanted to say that i wasn't using $10 headphones from a 7-11 store.

radio: no offense to ya folks south of the border, but radio in canada, at least in vancouver, isn't full of talk and cr@p like that. don't get me wrong, there's talk, but only in the mornings from like 6-9. after that, you only get music, music, music, bad music, some more bad music, and back to good music. well, of course, there's weather reports, breaking news (which is rare), and little commercial tid-bits. i've heard that many radio stations in the states are nothing but talk, but their station name goes something along hte lines of: '111.1 xyz, you're number 1 station for rock'.

i agree with you about apple being a very well designed ui. but i give full props to windows as well. the reason why is it is pretty much the universal operating system among education institutions. of course, there are apple, linux, and unix os based computers on university/college campuses, but easily over 90% of computers run a version of windows. and of course, windows is the rip-off operating system, but it's much easier for computer illiterate folks to handle and learn than most other operating systems. and of course, if you happened to be computer illiterate, and you desperately needed help, you could just knock on somebody's office door and chances are they'll know exactly what to do in order to help you.

and windows vista is crap. but you have to remember that apple doesn't make their operating systems from scratch. they take other people's work and modify it to meet their needs. microsoft will never ship vista on time. maybe 2076, but at least they've make all their operating systems (version 3.1 doesn't really count) from the ground up. but i only give them that much. and, well for almost making windows the universal operating system.

thank god i brought my KB100 with me. otherwise, writing this post up on my th55 would have killed me!

[JackAxe]

You typed all of that on your TH55... You're insane. :D *kidding*

The click wheel is nice, because Apple was able to combine the seperate electro-static buttons into it. It's easier overall to work with than my version, which is a no-brainer. :)

You can can grab a podcast from a direct link. iTunes just makes it really easy to find them, since it's located under the store, which has an excellent set up for browsing and finding items. If one did find a podcast from a direct link, or it was passed on by a friend, that person could just drag the file, onto the iPod icon in iTunes.

The music I listen to is generally higher in treble, like Enya and Loreena McKennits. The area where my 3G iPod does not do well, is with its presets. I leave them off and my music sounds great through my Sennheisers. But when playing the music through my Macs, I use the EQ, which I've bumped up the trebble and bass. An EQ is a feature I would honestly like to see in an iPod.

Hand me downs are great, especially for TriPorts. My friend owns a pair. :) I didn't buy the best Sennheisers, but after lots of reading and hanging out on the scary audiophile sites, I bought some HD-555. I burned them in for 200+ hours as was recommended and they have a great sound for the price. I was suprised that their suround sound feature actually works. I thought it was a gimmick. Blah.


Yeah, our radio sucks down here, well at least here in Souther California. The best alternative is Satelite radio, or Podcasting. Radio is about 60+% commercials and talking.

Some of the reasons Macs are not where PCs are now, is because of cost and Apple's mightier than though treatment of developers in the past. Games were also an important factor. It was much easier to develop for DOS and later Windows than Mac OS and it was also way cheaper. This of course led to tons of apps, more importantly games, for the PC. A cheaper PC with abundent software was of course a much easier sell. I worked at a couple of comptuer stores in the early ninties.

Since Jobs has come back on the Apple scene, this has alll changed. Apple now welcomes developers and is doing its best to make it easy for them. Every Mac ships with XCode and their site is rich in help and examples. Stating a Windows PC is more universal, does have truth, but an OS X Mac does its part to integrate seamlessly into the PC's world. My Macs and PCs use the same file types now days and speak seamlessly with each other over the network. Apple does its best to be Windows compatible.

For the longest time Macs were more prevalent in schools down here, but do to shrinking school bugdgets and the Macs much higher prices in the past, PCs ended up taking their place. Apple's been working to take back education again and in some places it's succeeding. It's just a matter of time. I have faith that it will be sooner than later, because Apple is synonymous with education. :)

I won't be migrating my PCs to Vista anytime soon, they probably couldn't even handle it. If rumors pan out about MS charging for certain updates in Vista, which are currently free, never. Down with the mediocrity king, and just to ramble some more, I HATE Internet Explorer. :p

<]=)

[daver]

You can can grab a podcast from a direct link. iTunes just makes it really easy to find them, since it's located under the store, which has an excellent set up for browsing and finding items. If one did find a podcast from a direct link, or it was passed on by a friend, that person could just drag the file, onto the iPod icon in iTunes.see, i knew you could do it manually, but i like to separate my podcasts by folder. i don't know if iPods can do this as well, but i still prefer to do it myself - hence my not liking/using software part.

The music I listen to is generally higher in treble, like Enya and Loreena McKennits.in your case, your ipod would be great for that music. you shouldn't boost the bass at all. me on the other hand... i listen to punk, rock, Gordon Lightfoot (some people think i'm crazy, but i think he's great), alt. rock, and for ages now, '60s rock because it's so darn good. so i guess you can see why i'm such an advocate for a good sounddriver that won't distort sound when it's high bass+treble. my old MD player used to sound prettygood. but i had to disable the bass and treble boosts to make Hendrix sound better than radio static in a really bad action/thriller movie.

[Volchitsa]

OMFSM.
We're going in circles and to tell you the truth I'm a bit tired of that.
I do think that I (or if not, then many others (users, reviewers, etc.)) have proven that the iPod has been long beaten and is definitely not the best player out there.
I do admit that it has a few advantages, primarly software, size and the click wheel. Other than that, it's been beaten, as I have said.

I'm afraid I can't join in the headphone discussion. I use a pair of pretty cheap Sonys and another pair of Panasonic canalphones. Sound quality is alright for me, I don't notice much difference, or don't care that much anyway. For the EQ, I just use the rock preset...

P.S. Thanks for a debate rather than a fight, that's why I like this site...

[daver]

OMFSM.
We're going in circles and to tell you the truth I'm a bit tired of that.
I do think that I (or if not, then many others (users, reviewers, etc.)) have proven that the iPod has been long beaten and is definitely not the best player out there.
I do admit that it has a few advantages, primarly software, size and the click wheel. Other than that, it's been beaten, as I have said.

I'm afraid I can't join in the headphone discussion. I use a pair of pretty cheap Sonys and another pair of Panasonic canalphones. Sound quality is alright for me, I don't notice much difference, or don't care that much anyway. For the EQ, I just use the rock preset...

P.S. Thanks for a debate rather than a fight, that's why I like this site...
i won't quite say that the iPod isn't the best player in the market, cuz that'll just let the cat out of the bag with the Apple fanboys. once that fat cat's out, it's apocalypse. but i will say that the iPod is an impressive MP3 player, just not my type or choice - if that wasn't obvious enough already.

i always prefer debates rather than fights. mostly because at the end of the day, you're still believing whatever you believed before, and likewise for the other party. but since we live in the Internet era, there's always the 99.99999999% chance that a fight will break out between everybody with their "I hate you, you should die" arguing tactics.

(and i'm not an iPod hater. i just think that there's better alternatives out there. and as we've all been saying at this forum forever: to each his own. whatever floats your boat is just a hole in the hull of another, or an upgrade. just because you really like something doesn't make your favourite product the only choice in the market.)

[Volchitsa]

I hate you, you should die. Therefore, iPod sucks.

;) :D

[SonyStyle]

hate to say it but if the ipod sucks, why are there so many ipod wannabes? lol

[Volchitsa]

hate to say it but if the ipod sucks, why are there so many ipod wannabes? lol

ipod does not suck when it comes to popularity and sales. thats why. lol

[daver]

hate to say it but if the ipod sucks, why are there so many ipod wannabes? lol
because it's good money

and because the iPod is the first of hard-drive based digital audio players.

a few years back, kids under the age of 16 all over north america usually wanted small things like better clothes and what not. today, if you don't have a cell phone and iPod combo, then you're a loser at any school you go to. simple as that. it's absolutely pathetic.

[Volchitsa]

because it's good money

and because the iPod is the first of hard-drive based digital audio players.

a few years back, kids under the age of 16 all over north america usually wanted small things like better clothes and what not. today, if you don't have a cell phone and iPod combo, then you're a loser at any school you go to. simple as that. it's absolutely pathetic.

Talk about generalizations...

[daver]

generalizations as in...?

[Volchitsa]

As in "today, if you don't have a cell phone and iPod combo, then you're a loser at any school you go to. simple as that. it's absolutely pathetic."

First, there's great diversity troughout the continent. I live in a pretty rich neighborhood (6th in US?) and most people in my school have iPods and cell phones. However, not having one does not make you a loser. People seem to be more apathetic in this area.
Also, the diversity within one school counts. My circle of friends could care less if I had a cell phone or not. But some of the preppy kids might point fingers (not at me, I mean, but at their "members" without popular stuffs)...

Oh, btw, popularity in "little things" like clothes has not diminished. It's just that now people want even more.

I don't mean to pick on you though, I see what you mean...

[daver]

no, i totally get what you mean. i myself live in one of the richest neighbourhoods in Canada. (too bad i don't get spoiled like my neighbours :( ). i should probably say that in Vancouver, the trend is "no gadgets, no friends", at least among the younger ages. in my area, most kids don't care for gadgets much. some of the youngers children have tapped into the past, and are beginning to play street hockey in the streets in front of our house. i occasionally spend a good 5-10 minutes watching them, to kind of remember the days when i played street hockey, and to take a break from my relentless studying/working.

unfortunately, there are still some immature 16+ year old idiots who think that having the most expensive electronic gadgets mean you're the koolest kid on the block. <buzzer sounding off> sorry kiddo, but if you can't get an education, you won't be able to afford those gadgets in your future. and that makes YOU the loser... you know what i mean? kinda irresponsible for the parents to shower the kid with toys early on in life... unless you're Johan Goathe, which is a different story.

i actually didn't get a cell phone until about the middle of last year when i actually started needing it. before that, i shared a phone with my mom. neither of us really needed it much, so it was already too much for the 2 of us.

and you're right about the "little things" (it was "small" btw, :p), but it's safe to say that they've been pushed aside since the iPod, PSP, Xbox/PS2, and cellphones have hit the market big time. just the other day, i saw a pretty young boy, no more than 12 years old, flashing off his Moto Razor (is there an "o" or not in the cell phone name???) that his parents bought him to his friends in the shopping mall the other day. i don't know if it's really his, but my friend and myself just couldn't believe what we heard. my friend has a Treo 600, and even she couldn't believe that a 12 year old has a better cell phone than the 2 of us combined!

times are changing too fast... that's it, it's time to go watch the Transformers movie again. go 1986 TV animation movies! <hip '80s techno music starts up in the background>Transformers, more than meets the eye...
LOL

[Volchitsa]

no, i totally get what you mean. i myself live in one of the richest neighbourhoods in Canada. (too bad i don't get spoiled like my neighbours :( ). i should probably say that in Vancouver, the trend is "no gadgets, no friends", at least among the younger ages. in my area, most kids don't care for gadgets much. some of the youngers children have tapped into the past, and are beginning to play street hockey in the streets in front of our house. i occasionally spend a good 5-10 minutes watching them, to kind of remember the days when i played street hockey, and to take a break from my relentless studying/working.

Yep, I don't get spoiled either. I was raised in Russia for 11 years and then in rented apartments here for 3 more years and only after that I moved here. Not too much spoilage possible (except for that a2 :p)

unfortunately, there are still some immature 16+ year old idiots who think that having the most expensive electronic gadgets mean you're the koolest kid on the block. <buzzer sounding off> sorry kiddo, but if you can't get an education, you won't be able to afford those gadgets in your future. and that makes YOU the loser... you know what i mean? kinda irresponsible for the parents to shower the kid with toys early on in life... unless you're Johan Goathe, which is a different story.
Oh yeah. I know plenty of kids like that. Dufii.
Actually, my school's very good though (17th in US). So people more or less care about their education... Gadgets are a part of life here...
I use my PDA for studying and reading though.

i actually didn't get a cell phone until about the middle of last year when i actually started needing it. before that, i shared a phone with my mom. neither of us really needed it much, so it was already too much for the 2 of us.
Same here. I got a cell phone in like november 2005. Don't really use it much except to call parents for a ride or something...

and you're right about the "little things" (it was "small" btw, :p), but it's safe to say that they've been pushed aside since the iPod, PSP, Xbox/PS2, and cellphones have hit the market big time. just the other day, i saw a pretty young boy, no more than 12 years old, flashing off his Moto Razor (is there an "o" or not in the cell phone name???) that his parents bought him to his friends in the shopping mall the other day. i don't know if it's really his, but my friend and myself just couldn't believe what we heard. my friend has a Treo 600, and even she couldn't believe that a 12 year old has a better cell phone than the 2 of us combined!
I'd disagree. At least in our area. Especially girls (not me though ;)). They get $200 pants and $500 purses and then walk around proudly with them...
(I actually get several-nundred-dollar clothes too, except for MUCH less. Like dress pants that were $250 originally my mom got for ~$15. It's not that hard to find a good deal...)
Wowee. Talk about spoiling... Yes, I've seen stuff like that. I volunteered in a middle school for a science fair a couple of weeks ago and middle schoolers were running around with cell phones, obviously trying to show off...
Tsk tsk.

times are changing too fast... that's it, it's time to go watch the Transformers movie again. go 1986 TV animation movies! <hip '80s techno music starts up in the background>Transformers, more than meets the eye...
LOL

:/ Yeah. I actually listen to a lot of old music (it's often just better) in Russian...

This reply of mine might not make any sense. I barely slept during the week. So please excuse me. I don't even remember what I just wrote.
Anywho. Time to go back to more physics!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

[JackAxe]

The iPod did well, because all of the other digital-players sucked for sooooo long. :D

I just finished a hell-project, so now I get to look forward to retarted changes.

Since I've been gone, Dell has "killed" its HDD based atrocity (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/services/service_dj?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs) and Apple released yet another Nano. And later this month, we should see a blue-tooth iPod. :)

According to some audiophiles, if you like bass that's rich, but not overpowering, this is the player (http://dapreview.net/comment.php?comment.news.1615) of choice.

Hey, if I could plug these other guys into iTunes perfectly with full integration, just like an iPod, I wouldn't hesitate in buying one if it was better at a feature that was important for me. Speaking of iTunes, my friend bought one of those new Motrola iTunes phone from Cingular.

<]=)

[JackAxe]

This reply of mine might not make any sense. I barely slept during the week. So please excuse me. I don't even remember what I just wrote.
Anywho. Time to go back to more physics!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...


LOL, I was like this for the past 3 days. :D

<]=)

[daver]

I use my PDA for studying and reading though.same here. i have a lot of readings/lab manual coverage and other things on my Clie. i also have a TON of PDF files like lecture notes that i refer to if i'm not at my laptop, or i can't access it.

Same here. I got a cell phone in like november 2005. Don't really use it much except to call parents for a ride or something...pretty much the same here. now, i call my friends to see if i can hitch i ride home from them every now and then.

I'd disagree. At least in our area. Especially girls (not me though ;)). They get $200 pants and $500 purses and then walk around proudly with them...
(I actually get several-nundred-dollar clothes too, except for MUCH less. Like dress pants that were $250 originally my mom got for ~$15. It's not that hard to find a good deal...)sounds all to familiar with me. the most expensive piece of clothing i own is my watch. but it's a specialty watch: for diving. my second most prized possession, the Momentum M1, a gift from like a billion people for when i got my advanced deep water diving license.

Wowee. Talk about spoiling... Yes, I've seen stuff like that. I volunteered in a middle school for a science fair a couple of weeks ago and middle schoolers were running around with cell phones, obviously trying to show off...my god. when you said "science fair", i almost soiled my diapers. i remember doing science fairs in grades 8-10. i went to a "special" school - as my friends call it - of a 140 students. it was actually an outdoor education emphasized school, so we did a lot of things that most other high schools in Vancouver didn't do.

[daver]

According to some audiophiles, if you like bass that's rich, but not overpowering, this is the player (http://dapreview.net/comment.php?comment.news.1615) of choice.of course, the price tag on that thing costs 2x more than my watch, in US dollars too.
plus, i'm not much of a bass freak. some people (the crazy ones) will crank up the bass to full throttle and destroy their hearing with rap and overkill heavy beat burdened "music". there's a really thick line between heavy bass and retardedly excessive bass, so i don't know how people manage to cross it. i like to keep my bass and treble in close proportion, but taht really depends on the kind of music that's currently playing, you know? Volchitsa, you probably know what i mean if i say this:

custom equilizer (from left to right): 10 8 6 7 10
BBE: 3,
Mach3Bass: 4,
MP enhance: ON
3D surround: 2

this is on average though; if i'm listening to some psychodelic guitar, then i bring the Mach3Bass down and leave the treble as is.

LOL, I was like this for the past 3 days.i've been like that for the past week! only 2 more days to go.... only 2 more days to go, and then it's reading week! hoo-a!

[JackAxe]

*Thump*
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*Thump*

Bass rocks! :p I love how it rattles the windows of the cheap cars that sometimes drive by.

Here's my average EQ settings, but only when listining to my iPod while working on my Macs, which is 99% of the time.

http://www.bainne.com/fun/eq.jpg

There are a couple of songs that I created a different EQ setting for and iTunes automatically switches to the setting that correlates to the playing song.

I wish my iPod had that feature, along with an actual EQ. :o

<]=)

[daver]

I wish my iPod had that feature, along with an actual EQi thought the iPod had a cusomizable EQ preset? like, there are x number of preset EQs, and then a custom one?

[JackAxe]

My 3G only has presets, not a custom one. I'll have to see if the newer versions offer it. But the lack of FireWire keeps me from upgrading.

<]=)

[angelkev2]

I never had a problem like this since i got my iAudio but tonight when i opened it it was working well until i was browsing and when i reached the voicei accidentaly record something but i stopped it right away, when i start playing it, the reading timer got stucked there for an hour now i , tried to closed it but its not closing it was HANGED i don't know what to do but i'm trying to open the case but the screws are hard to twist.. so please help this will take forever until the battery is gone.

[kiteandcamera]

I never had a problem like this since i got my iAudio but tonight when i opened it it was working well until i was browsing and when i reached the voicei accidentaly record something but i stopped it right away, when i start playing it, the reading timer got stucked there for an hour now i , tried to closed it but its not closing it was HANGED i don't know what to do but i'm trying to open the case but the screws are hard to twist.. so please help this will take forever until the battery is gone.

Don't start opening a new unit that is under warranty. Try pushing the reset button on the lower right hand side of the X5L. This will not affect any of your files. My X5L got hung up once the first day I began using it and it has not done so since. If reset does not clear up the problem, you will have to email COWON tech support. Also, visit cowon.com, iaudiophile.net and eng.iaudio.com forums.

[daver]

be sure to visit the iaudiophile.net forum. it's by far the best one for iAudio devices. also try plugging the x5 into your computer. i don't know why but it unfroze my x5 once... it might work for you

[Volchitsa]

Yes, you should try all that.
Then if you get it to work, then maybe you need a firmware upgrade (just a suggestion)

If nothing works to revive it, then call (not email) cowon and they'll get you a replacement in no time. (assuming it's still under warranty).

Good luck!

Speaking of firmware, iaudio just released a new version for my a2 and finally the russian (in several thousand songs I have) is readable! (I've been waiting for this for a while now)

Oh also, did anyone try using the lyrics feature on a cowon?
(what's with me and parentheses?)

[SonyStyle]

white is in, need more to say?