Reason Why Palm is Going To Fail

[JAmerican]

In two words, no variety. Palm has always been about their own interest, not the consumer interest (in my opinion) because they lack communication with developers, they release the same device form-factors, they think that everyone loves using Graffiti 2 on regular handhelds and they think that forcing people to choose from a few devices on their product lineup is fair. Right now Palm is the only seller of Palm OS products. Being that they have no competition, they basically monopolize the Palm OS industry. So they decide what we can and can't have. People drop Palm OS and go to Windows or buy the so-called dead CLIÉs on ebay. So Palm can continue this strategy if they want but soon, they will loose a lot of CLIE and Palm users to Linux and WM. I know I am seriously considering WM.

Another example of poor design is creating a business-class Palm TX without microphone. A microphone is essential in the business world for quick recordings. Yes, Dimitrygr did hack his TX to make it include vibration, LED and Voice Memo so why couldn't Palm do this??? I think Palm will always cut themselves short. Eventually, Palm OS will have no developers, minimal users and Palm will change its strategy. By then it will be too late.

I must agree that Palm has come a long way to actually supplying WiFi in their handhelds as well as trying out hard drives in their handhelds but I hope these features are brought on another level with new form-factors. The candybar/slate design is not the only type of device people can use.

More Products > More Variety > More Users. That's the basics of business. If there is a demand, you supply that demand. Seeing as WiFi took years to come. I bet that it will take years before we see any non-graffiti handheld or a multi-convergance device like the UX with Graffiti 2 and keyboard.

Just my two cents.

JAmerican

[LupeValenz]

With WM under their belt now, I think they will be floating for a while now :D

[dragonsgames]

Palm will NEVER release a UX style device ;)

[SonyStyle]

i think palm's main sucess is in their treo and zire lines(its cheap, most consumers only think of price unlike us who want the msot out of the pda). i agree that palm has no variety but i think they are doing this is because they saw how sony fell (because sony had too many varieties which led to high prices) hence, they are playing safe

[blues]

Palm will NEVER release a UX style device ;)It's unfortunate that Palm won't build devices as bold as Sony did, but that's the very reason why they have survived when everyone else (Sony, HP, Toshiba, Zodiac, etc) failed.

This whole debate was started back when Jeff Kirvin explained why Palm don't make Ferraris (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=1278)

[BUMP THAT]

Simple reason why I have a Pocket PC. And why I have a zodaic. Zodaic is great design. But Pocket has lots of support too. Its really hard to pick between the two for me.

Although its not unusual for a product to limited be in some aspect, only to be replaced by a better model including desired/expected features. Look at Nintendo, they milk it. :D

[Dick Tracy]

Palm's target customer is not the urban teenager.

[JAmerican]

Palm's target customer is not the urban teenager.

What does urban teenager have to do with anything??

I'm talking about a teenager in general. Why do people buy Sidekicks, RAZRs, iPods because they are fashionable and have unique specs.

JAmerican

[nausicaa]

boo hoo hoo
I too echo JAmerican's lament that there is nothing out there (except HTC which is WINDOWS! bleah!) to scratch the upgrade itch for UX50 users.

And also frustration about the T/X voice record inabilities (my UX50 voice recorder blasted away all my colleagues' mp3 voice recordings with much better filtering-out of background noise and listenable meeting recordings).
And the UX could record video as well as meetings/lectures, which I used when I was in Brazil last year for a series of colorful meetings.

And I too hanker after a clamshell-formfactor thumb-keyboard for my next pda (but have never enjoyed any of the microsoft-based pdas i've had, which all fell to disuse even before they got outdated).

And at age 35 (by the Korean way of counting age) i am definitely not an urban teenager (which was a really out-of-the-blue comment that doesn't have anything to do with the issue at hand, except perhaps reflecting on the commentor's meanness)

I am now eyeing vz90 (alas, no voice recorder or camera there either, but at least a big, ultra-bright OLED screen, faster read/write speeds, and amazing battery life) but at obscene price levels and with no bluetooth sigh..
if only my ux50 battery wasn't on its last legs..

[JAmerican]

boo hoo hoo
I too echo JAmerican's lament that there is nothing out there (except HTC which is WINDOWS! bleah!) to scratch the upgrade itch for UX50 users.

And also frustration about the T/X voice record inabilities (my UX50 voice recorder blasted away all my colleagues' mp3 voice recordings with much better filtering-out of background noise and listenable meeting recordings).
And the UX could record video as well as meetings/lectures, which I used when I was in Brazil last year for a series of colorful meetings.

And I too hanker after a clamshell-formfactor thumb-keyboard for my next pda (but have never enjoyed any of the microsoft-based pdas i've had, which all fell to disuse even before they got outdated).

And at age 35 (by the Korean way of counting age) i am definitely not an urban teenager (which was a really out-of-the-blue comment that doesn't have anything to do with the issue at hand, except perhaps reflecting on the commentor's meanness)

I am now eyeing vz90 (alas, no voice recorder or camera there either, but at least a big, ultra-bright OLED screen, faster read/write speeds, and amazing battery life) but at obscene price levels and with no bluetooth sigh..
if only my ux50 battery wasn't on its last legs..

Yea, the urban teenager is a hurtful and rude comment for it can mean many things and I'm not going to get into that.

As for my UX, it is still running but with my WiFi loss, I feel that at any moment, my device might shut down and that's it or BT might go. I've loved my UX over the year I've used it but feel its time to get something new. Something with a faster processor, better keyboard, larger screen, more RAM, better battery. Hmm, I think I just described a HTC Universal or a Zaurus SL-C series. Only problem is that both these device are expensive. I understand that I can't have everything I want but Palm should at least consider the keyboard-section of the market that uses Palm OS. Most CLIEs used keyboards although the device was very large in size. So why ignore the people Sony left? Why do that. Why not accept them by just giving us a device with a keyboard, larger screen, dual wireless, great battery and charge it at $300~$400? Why not do that? At least, it will be below the price ranges Sony offered for these types of devices. It will also be a away to test a new form-factor. Add a GSM/EDGE/EVDO antenna in it and place it in the Treo section or keep the antenna out and make it a Mobile manager. That simple. If they don't want to make it due to slider issues? Make HTC make it.

JAmerican

[nausicaa]

gosh, i don't think the htc keyboard is better than the ux50 keyboard (but this is based on a very short viewing of the htc in a computer shop in the duty-free BUT still a rip-off singapore airport). Also, htc doesn't look worth the money. (which is different from just being expensive.)

but yeah, a ux50 with better RAM, better battery, bigger screen... AND the bluetooth should be able to handle sending mp3 music to bluetooth headsets (I still can't figure out why Sony didn't give that profile to the UX50 bluetooth?!!?) ... that would be off the store shelves and in my pocket before my wallet could say, ouch.

Besides the battery life being on its last legs, the plastic circular piece (next to the camera) fell off of my ux50 and the jog dial doesn't work anymore. But it is STILL preferable to all the pdas that are currently out there. (probably because even without the jog dial i have a whole lot of keyboard shortcuts to programs i need and most of my jogdial usage has been reduced by using automatic scroll in third party programs.) i am flying from korea to new york through japan in a couple weeks and hope to check out what's in the tokyo airport dutyfree computer stores... but i still miss the old days when new sony pdas came out every 6 months or so. Palm is not a very exciting pda brand, even though I like their OS much better than the MS os.
if only there was a way to get the palm os onto zaurus sl-c3000 (or if zaurus would please come out with a palm-os pda)...

[blues]

I think Palm is well placed to ever upgrading their hardware and os to improve and add more services to their products. Granted, it's a very slow process, but the sky is the limit for them. But only if they are smart enough not to let the techno-geek side of themselves decide what kind of devices to make because those kind of devices don't sell. And if they don't sell, they can't make any money to continue improving.

Palm's Zire is the most popular handheld today. Until the public starts actually buying devices with bling, us techno-geeks can only dream of what kind of bling is next.

[JAmerican]

Well the Zaurus SL-C3000/C3100 both have the same processor as the LD and 4GB memory. So hypothetically, the Zaurus could be hacked to run Palm OS. If it could, it would be my next PDA.

JAmerican

[philpalm]

Major mistake that the z-22 doesn't have a memory card slot? A lot of palm buyers are religious and use cards to store their Bible material. As an inexpensive word processor, an amateur writer would need a Z-31 at least to write and have a dictionary. Offering an optional camera or tape recorder would be the next level Palm which works better with a memory slot.
On adding a clamshell option I would also offer a larger screen for those people whose vision is not too good. However the visual part belongs to an inovator like Sony(the screens from sharp) The clamshell option also allows the option of a keyboard and maybe more option keys for other functions.
Battery upgrade: offer the battery extender using alkaline batteries as an option, use Sony's new Li-On formula batteries, or sacrifice size for a larger battery.(refillable fuel cell batteries are not allowed on planes)
Maybe palm should buy a software and/or hardware company to improve their line-up? Or joint partnership with RIM? Or if Bill Gates will license more software to Palm?

[smoothjordan]

The pinnacle of Palm's hardware was the Tungsten T|3, and since then have been making devices that are dissapointing and not necessarily an upgrade. Don't get me wrong, I loved my T|5, but the T|3 was original, revolutionary you might say, but palm has no more interest in the standard PDA anymore, their interest is smartphones, and until they make a Treo with a slide out screen (similar to the t|3, put the keyboard on top of part of the screen, slide it down to reveal HVGA screen) you won't see me upgrading to a newer palm. I'm going PPC!

[dragonsgames]

I love the HTC Apache type devices. I am sure, if Palm moves their focus to Treos, we will see one of those eventually ;)

[smoothjordan]

THeir focus HAS been the treo, and we haven't seen one yet!

[dragonsgames]

Haven't seen one yet ;)

[dmitrygr]

Reason Why Palm is Going To Fail

...yawn...
another one?
here's why PPC, microsoft, your heart muscle, and the universe will fail: heat death of the universe. Concerned yet?

Yep...neither am, I

[dragonsgames]

The sun is going to burn out... :eek:

[smoothjordan]

not for a long while, long after your gone DG... It's called a Nova (not the show on PBS)

Of course Palm will fail, we are starting to see it crumble before our eyes

[dragonsgames]

not for a long while, long after your gone DG...
What if I get frozen delivering a Pizza? And then get thawed out just in time... maybe 2999? Maybe I should make a show about that... :D

[smoothjordan]

Futurama anyone?

[dragonsgames]

Futurama? What? I should sue them... :eek:

[Jeff Kirvin]

JA, no one gives a damn that you're black.

And Palm doesn't give a damn that you want a replacement for your UX. They'll never make a clamshell, and I don't think they're taking non-Treos all that seriously in the first place. PDAs are just playing out the string. Smartphones are the present, much less the future.

Palm ignoring a handful of bitter Clie owners != Palm ignoring their market.

[smoothjordan]

Palm ignoring a handful of bitter Clie owners != Palm ignoring their market.

That's what I've been saying yet no one wants to listen to me.
:command: c & :command: p this into your brains!

[dragonsgames]

JA, no one gives a damn that you're black.
Well that was random :rolleyes:

[Jeff Kirvin]

Well that was random :rolleyes:
Not quite. He got all sensitive at the word urban.

[dragonsgames]

Urban, suburban... what? :confused:

[dsaroff]

The pinnacle of Palm's hardware was the Tungsten T|3, and since then have been making devices that are dissapointing and not necessarily an upgrade. Don't get me wrong, I loved my T|5, but the T|3 was original, revolutionary you might say, but palm has no more interest in the standard PDA anymore, their interest is smartphones, and until they make a Treo with a slide out screen (similar to the t|3, put the keyboard on top of part of the screen, slide it down to reveal HVGA screen) you won't see me upgrading to a newer palm. I'm going PPC!

OK...I keep hearing the refrain that the T3 was revolutionary. How? I owned and like it, but no, not revolutionary. Revolutionary in my book are the Pilot 5000 (broke the industry opent), Palm V (form factor), Visor Deluxe (serious expansion), T|T (palms first real hires/bluetooth/collapsable), Treo 600, and (I would say) the LifeDrive.

T3? Let's see. Hires--done in TT T2. Collapsable--TT T2. Lousy buttons--OK. Lousy batterylife--OK. SD slot TT, T2 et al. Better screen (not exactly revolutionary). Bluetooth--TT, T2 et al. WiFi--What's that?. Digitizer drift--OK. Screws looose--OK.

Good product--sure. Revolutionary--no.

I prefer my LD to my T3 in all areas but stability. Was sick of the slider and poor battery life. Wanted WiFi. Hated the T3 button arrangement. Love the LD's extra space and LIFEDRIVE MODE (I use it daily)

[smoothjordan]

Revolutionary in the fact that it was palms firs 320 x 480 screen. Revolutionary in the fact that it was the first palm to go 416mhz. Revolutionary with garnet (agenda view) So I do believe it is revolutionary.

[dragonsgames]

Palm's CEO should be fired.

[applejosh]

Revolutionary in the fact that it was palms firs 320 x 480 screen. Revolutionary in the fact that it was the first palm to go 416mhz. Revolutionary with garnet (agenda view) So I do believe it is revolutionary.

Well, I'd say evolutionary, but the screen (at least as far as resolution) was copying Sony. And it only went to 400MHz. Not really revolutionary in my opinion, as it just went a step further in raw processor speed on the ARM platform. (And for most tasks, performed no better than the 126MHZ OMAP's.) I will admit that the new PIM databases were a welcome addition. Would have been better if they had released the databases specs a lot sooner so developers would be a lot further along by now, but water under the bridge at this point.

[JAmerican]

In two words, no variety. Palm has always been about their own interest, not the consumer interest (in my opinion) because they lack communication with developers, they release the same device form-factors, they think that everyone loves using Graffiti 2 on regular handhelds and they think that forcing people to choose from a few devices on their product lineup is fair. Right now Palm is the only seller of Palm OS products. Being that they have no competition, they basically monopolize the Palm OS industry. So they decide what we can and can't have. People drop Palm OS and go to Windows or buy the so-called dead CLIÉs on ebay. So Palm can continue this strategy if they want but soon, they will loose a lot of CLIE and Palm users to Linux and WM. I know I am seriously considering WM.

Another example of poor design is creating a business-class Palm TX without microphone. A microphone is essential in the business world for quick recordings. Yes, Dimitrygr did hack his TX to make it include vibration, LED and Voice Memo so why couldn't Palm do this??? I think Palm will always cut themselves short. Eventually, Palm OS will have no developers, minimal users and Palm will change its strategy. By then it will be too late.

I must agree that Palm has come a long way to actually supplying WiFi in their handhelds as well as trying out hard drives in their handhelds but I hope these features are brought on another level with new form-factors. The candybar/slate design is not the only type of device people can use.

More Products > More Variety > More Users. That's the basics of business. If there is a demand, you supply that demand. Seeing as WiFi took years to come. I bet that it will take years before we see any non-graffiti handheld or a multi-convergance device like the UX with Graffiti 2 and keyboard.

Just my two cents.

JAmerican

Having bought a TX, I do not take back my comments and will not delete this thread as I was advised by some people in yesterday's chat. I still believe Palm has no variety and that they should offer more devices. I bought a Palm TX mainly because I am not in need of a clamshell anymore due to I'm getting a laptop for college. I also got my TX for $190 ($206 shipped) on ebay (something I find amazing) for the $300 price tag it has on Palm.com. I also currently lost my BT DUN service through T-Mobile due to they have shut it off completely now. Thus, I am in need of WiFi and will not cope for a WiFi stick due to the one I have now works every so often or when it wants to. I'm also in need of a device with a large screen, something the UX does not have and a device with a better battery. Not to mention something small in size. The TX matching these specifications as well as others and being very cheap, I made the best economic decision based on my basic wants.

JAmerican