SJ33 audio player - confusion ?

[jolo]

Please help !! I was about to purchase a SJ33, then I heard some stuff about the audio player and I would appreciate the experts here, which is all of you, to help me out. Here are my questions and thank you in advance !!:)

Do you need the MagicGate memory stick to load your music and play it ?

Can you load MP3s to a memory stick with a USB memory stick read/write device ?

What is the story about copy protection. How the heck does the unit know if I burned a CD that I purchased not ?

Is the MP3 quality limitation 128 CBR ?

What is the ATRAC3 quality limitation ?

Is VBR format from something like Lame usuable at all ?

Is there a third party player that simplifies things ?

Does the Sony ATRAC3 format superior to MP3 format ?

Is there more complicated copywright stuff with using the ATRAC3 format ?

I assume that the connection for the headphones is a conventional one and one can use any type they want ?

Thank you so much. Before purchasing I really want to know what I am getting into. I have a friend who has a Panasonic MP3 player and is all messed up with how propriatary it is.

Thanks again !!

Jon

[SpideR]

I currently have an older N760C, but the audio player has much the same functionality. I will answer as many questions as possible:

>>Do you need the MagicGate memory stick to load your music and play it ?

Not for MP3s, only for ATRAC3

>>Can you load MP3s to a memory stick with a USB memory stick read/write device ?

Yes

>>What is the story about copy protection. How the heck does the unit know if I burned a CD that I purchased not ?

Not sure for ATRAC3( I think something to do with checking a song in to the software and then not allowing it to be copied out until you delete it from the CLIE?), but there is no copy protection for MP3

>>Is the MP3 quality limitation 128 CBR ?

No

>>What is the ATRAC3 quality limitation ?

Not sure, I don't use ATRAC3

>>Is VBR format from something like Lame usuable at all ?

Absolutely. I've used VBR from AudioCatalyst and LAME ( as well as LAME ABR).

>>Is there a third party player that simplifies things ?

Not that I am aware of

>>Does the Sony ATRAC3 format superior to MP3 format ?

Not sure.

>>Is there more complicated copywright stuff with using the ATRAC3 format ?

If you mean relative to MP3, yes

>>I assume that the connection for the headphones is a conventional one and one can use any type they want ?

That is correct.



I hope this was of some help:)

[jolo]

Thanks so much SpideR,

But if you wouldn't mind, can I ask you to expound on some of your answers.

On the playing of MP3s on the audio player, what is the best quality that can be played on the SJ33 ? That is GREAT to hear that the player supports VBR, I heard differently, but I have heard a lot.
In using lame, (or Razorlame), what are the best settings that you can use ? What do you use ?

IF this is the case, why the heck would anyone pay more for that magic gate card from Sony and to use their propriatary format ?
I like the Kelsar cards better myself.

Thanks so much !!

[SpideR]

I'm not sure what the highest bitrate actually playable on the SJ33 is, but on my N760 I could go up to 256kbit and no higher. The next step up from there is the max bitrate of 320kbits, and it didn't work; it glitched and stopped frequently, I believe because it could not read the memory stick fast enough.

As for LAME settings, I am currently running 3.90.2 which can be found somewhere on http://www.hydrogenaudio.org and I use --alt-preset fast standard -Z. This gives pretty much the best quality I've heard from the MP3 format. This does produce rather large MP3 files, so if I am willing to sacrifice quality for file size, I would use either --abr 128 or --abr 160 (uses VBR to produce a file that averages to 128kbit or 160kbit respectively)

[bertradio]

I just got the SJ33 and the audio is a bit confusing.

1. You can use MP3's, but only sampled at 44.1k with a constant bit rate (no VBR).

2. You can use a regular memory stick for MP3's.

All this said, it's a bit more difficult than using ATRAC and the MagicGate stick. That's because Sony is pushing its copy protection scheme with these. So the software they give you for the PC only works with ATRAC and on the back of the SJ33 it says "MagicGate". You need to search the manual to figure out how to use MP3's.

But once you get the hang of it, it's pretty simple. You have to use a file transfer tool provided with the SJ33, not the music software they give you, to transfer MP3's. It's fast and easy. The only thingk I don't like is that once transferred, you cannot change the order in which the MP3's play -- other than to play them at random.

The MP3 player is pretty good, has skins and some nice display options. Overall I'm very happy with it and am using it instead of my old MP3 player. One nifty thing is that you can see the titles of the tracks on the player.

Bert

[Windboi]

as long as you maintain above 44.1 k i think its okay... i tried playing with variable bit rate and seems that it sounded much better and occupy less memory so give it a try... you will like it

[bertradio]

When I tried to use MS Export to get MP3's with VBR to the Clie, it said the format was wrong. If I just copied the files with Explorer, the MP3 player wouldn't play them. I've also had no luck with anything other than 44.1. The manual says the files have to be 44.1.

Bert

[elf]

Originally posted by SpideR
I currently have an older N760C, but the audio player has much the same functionality.

Careful, "...much the same..." is not "...exactly the same...".

The default Audioplayer on the SJ33 WILL NOT PLAY VBR encoded MP3s.

ATRAC3 encoding is poorer than MP3, in my opinion-- this is obviously subjective. The only way you will know for certain is to to do a listening test with the original, an MP3 and an ATRAC3 encoded file.

I have found success with MP3s encoded at 128kbit at 44.1KHz. Other bit-rates (as low as 96 and has high as 192 work; definitely 112kbits because I tried this) work but I cannot confirm the low and high range.

[pandora808]

I don't know what percent of you people use linux at all. But its extremely simple to use mp3s on the sj33. Just mount /dev/sda1 to some dir. with usb-mass-storage compiled in the kernel (2.4.20 worked best for me). Done. copy files to stick. play mp3s on sj33. sweet deal.

midis...
my only problem is that even though the sj33 reads midi files, you have to have the midi file in a pdb format in order to upload it :( I havent found a way around this for linux yet.

Neil

[jolo]

If I can encode files with lame and use --alt-preset standard
(bitrates 180-220 kbit/s -- usually averages around 192 kbps) , I would be very happy. But this setting makes for VBR files. I have heard both answers here.

The lack of acceptance of VBR, if that is true, certainly will increase the size of the files.
What I would like to do is use lame, then encode with alt-preset standard. Then use my USB MS writer to copy from my PC. Then play. I also like using this free utility ZFILE to move files around.
But there is contention whether the SJ33 handles VBR.

I'm hoping that there will be a third party audio player that will play everything and we don't have to worry about Sony's limitations.

[jolo]

There are some amazing responses here.

Some they they are playing MP3s with VBR format and some say that the Clie SJ33 won't allow it. Hmmmm.

I would like to use my USB memory stick read/write device to copy files from my PC to the stick. It is sooo fast and I just use windows explorer.
Can this be done ?

[bertradio]

From the Clie manual:

On audio files you can play using Audio Player application
MP3
• Format: MP3 (PEG-1 Audio Layer-3)
• Sampling frequency: 44.1 kHz
• Bit rate: 32 to 320 kbps
• File extension: .mp3 or .rmp

It doesn't say you can't play VBR, but I have not been able to do it. The advantage of using MS Export to bring in the files is it checks to make sure the files are compatible before making the transfer. You can also use MS Explorer with the memory stick as a "removeable drive".

Bert

[X Destruction]

when I put the bit rate on my mp3 lower 128, it says invalid, got any idea?

[GeekGod]

The confusion here is that the OLDER Clie Audio Player CAN play VBR, but it appears the newer one can not. I have not tried this on the SJ33, but I can confirm that the NX series can NOT play VBR.

I thought this was an OS5 thing, but from what is being said here it seems like the AP in the all new Clies won't do VBR. I will confirm this on our demo SJ33 at work on Sunday (if I remember).

I know that the AP from the N760c and the NR70v both do VBR (and do it very well, actually) because I own both of those. I'm pretty sure the T665 does as well, but I'm not positive (been a while since I played with one). It really sucks that Sony took such a major step backwards in the new, and one would think, "improved" Audio Player.

What's really odd is that I'm pretty sure ATRAC3 is a VBR encoding scheme (can anyone confirm or correct me on this?), and if that is true, then that means the AP can still decode VBR content, and has been intentionally crippled for MP3. Hmmm...?

Aloha, GG

[SpideR]

I also thought the inability to play VBR file was something only seen on the OS5 models, but I guess I was mistaken. My N760 said specifically that it would not play VBR, as did a T665 that I tried, but in actuality they both played them just fine. Thus I was assuming it would be the same on the SJ33. I guess the old saying about assumptions was right again ;)

I agree it is rather a step backward to no longer be able to play VBR files, but I did notice that seeking is much better on the NX60. You can tap on the playback bar, and the song skips straight to that point. Something my N760 could never do. Maybe that has something to do with why VBR doesnt work???

I would like to use my USB memory stick read/write device to copy files from my PC to the stick. It is sooo fast and I just use windows explorer.

I don't see why you can't use the writer, but you could also use the MSIMPORT program on the SJ33, as it does basically the same thing.


P.S.

LAME settings that should work:
-b 128
-b 160
Got both to work on an NX60, I would imaging you could also use 192, 224, but I'm not sure about 256 and 320

[GeekGod]

I just checked our SJ33 demo, and it DOES play VBR. So it seems VBR issues are with OS5 only.

Don't know why others are having trouble with MP3 on the SJ33. But mine here deffinitely does play VBR. I put my MS in the NX, and several of the songs showed up as unplayable, and others would attempt to play, but be screwed up (one even hard locked the NX). But in the SJ33 they all play fine.

Aloha, GG

[jolo]

It might by possible that the problem is the sampling rate. I am pretty that the Sony will not play at 48kHz, but will play at 44.1kHz.

When I look at my songs, the Sony play somethings says 160, some at 183, it varies because I am using VBR.

I think people might need to look at resampling to 41.1kHz

Jon

I've gotthe feeling that the issue us